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Old 08-03-2010, 02:35 AM   #881
DarthParametric
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You realise there are more than two writers for both games right? It's not like Karpyshyn wrote 99% of ME1 and Walters wrote 99% of ME2. I dunno how your idol Avellone works, but from what I've seen from comments by Bioware writers they share the load around a lot amongst the whole writing team (which is usually around the 6-10 people mark). For example, even in cases where someone is credited with writing a particular character, 2 or 3 other writers typically work on their dialogue as well. Your Karpyshyn hatred seems rather irrational in that context. Why not just say you preferred the overall writing in ME2 compared to ME1 and leave it at that?
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Old 08-03-2010, 12:55 PM   #882
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You realise there are more than two writers for both games right?
Indeed Lead Writer credits are shared on ME2, but IIRC, that is not the case for ME1.

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It's not like Karpyshyn wrote 99% of ME1 and Walters wrote 99% of ME2.
At no point did I disillusion myself with the notion that Lead Writers earned that title via word count. I imagine that they are probably responsible for narrative and the final draft, etc.

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I dunno how your idol Avellone works, but from what I've seen from comments by Bioware writers they share the load around a lot amongst the whole writing team (which is usually around the 6-10 people mark). For example, even in cases where someone is credited with writing a particular character, 2 or 3 other writers typically work on their dialogue as well.
Indeed, this is my understanding of the process as well. I don't imagine that these supporting writers work in a vacuum. Neither do I imagine that Lead Writers themselves are simply administrators.

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Your Karpyshyn hatred seems rather irrational in that context.


I can't dislike his work because he has help?

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Why not just say you preferred the overall writing in ME2 compared to ME1 and leave it at that?
Sure, but if there are objective means of comparing "good writing" to "bad writing", we can have that conversation too (obviously participation is not required if there's something else you'd rather be doing).
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Old 08-03-2010, 01:15 PM   #883
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Mass Effect 2 Suicide Mission plot...
ME2 reminded me more of The Dirty Dozen, than Battlestar Galactica.

Gather your forces of misfits and criminals to attack the ultimate evil. Only thing missing was a religious nut like Telly Savalas character Maggott (Ashley could have filled in the role nicely had she been allowed to join the party) and Grunt getting gun down in the end like Jim Brown.

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Do you have any idea how much grief I'm going to get from Mimartin?! Do you?!
However could you think such a thing, I much too kind of a person to stoop to such pettiness.


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Old 08-03-2010, 02:00 PM   #884
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Only thing missing was a religious nut like Telly Savalas character Maggott (Ashley could have filled in the role nicely had she been allowed to join the party)
Thane was fairly religious, but not to the point of Maggott or Ashley...
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Old 08-03-2010, 02:53 PM   #885
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Thane was fairly religious, but not to the point of Maggott or Ashley...
Must have missed something. Ash doesn't go off on a rant about sinners and whatnot like Maggot. Saying she believes in God and being a perverted zealot are far and apart different things. Now, if one wanted to say she was a "nativist nut"/xenophobe of sorts.....


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Old 08-03-2010, 03:12 PM   #886
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Must have missed something. Ash doesn't go off on a rant about sinners and whatnot like Maggot.
No, Ashley isn't as bad as Maggot, but beside a few Television Evangelists, who is? The comparison was a very mild attempt at humor on my part. For the record, I also don't really think Grunt looks like the 2nd greatest football player of all-time either.


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Old 08-03-2010, 03:27 PM   #887
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So we're panning Mass Effect character now because they are cliché?
It's what makes movies and other stuff work.

Last 'non-cliché' character I encountered in a video game was Kreia...but I recently enjoyed Alpha Protocol very much...which was one big cliché. The evil Korean Martial Artist, the crazy Amarican, the flirty Mercenary...etcetera. The way they handeled it was just perfect. I dare you to play Marburgs Villa mission with SIE as handler. The dialogue...hilarious.

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Old 08-03-2010, 10:45 PM   #888
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Yeah, remember that weapons pack I said would precede the Shadow Broker DLC? Time to spend more money on weapons they could've included in the original game!
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Old 08-03-2010, 11:33 PM   #889
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So we're panning Mass Effect character now because they are cliché?
Why yes, yes we are.

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It's what makes movies and other stuff work.
If by 'work' you mean make tons of money made off of unthinking masses who only want a night of cheap entertainment without any intellectual content, then yes, it makes them work. And at the same time, hundreds of movies across the world 'work' through screenings at film festivals, underground theaters, art galleries and digital distribution - films that break the norm and do more than just hawk their recycled wares at audiences.

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Last 'non-cliché' character I encountered in a video game was Kreia...but I recently enjoyed Alpha Protocol very much...which was one big cliché. The evil Korean Martial Artist, the crazy Amarican, the flirty Mercenary...etcetera. The way they handeled it was just perfect. I dare you to play Marburgs Villa mission with SIE as handler. The dialogue...hilarious.
That Alpha Protocol's characters were mired by implausibility is no secret, nor is it any particular strength of the title. At some moments, it seemed to outright parody assumptions, such as the CIA casually discussing public surveillance, or the Hong Kong section which could easily have come from a story arc of Black Lagoon, the Rome section that seemed to lifted from (insert generic espionage paperback here) and so on.

The reason clichés are a problem in the Mass Effect series is that they do not lend to any overarching meaning within the narrative - they do not exist to expose us any truth, but merely because they have been used before in film and have worked. They do not exist with any underlying purpose in the storytelling context, but are merely second-rate paper hoardings.

And this is my primary beef with the storytelling in this series - it has absolutely no point. There is no great character drama about Sheppard, there is no morality tale, no expounding of human nature, or a subliminal discussion of the problems affecting us today or what might affect us in the future. And I'm not talking about bull**** like the human extremist organisation, that's crap you see in almost every country today. The same goes with Dragon Age - both this and the other series, they are both pretty much trash entertainment that dig up old settings and older clichés, package a story and ship them for money. This is not what the older RPGs, or any of the older games were.

Now excuse me while I stroke my beatnik goatee and read Pynchon or some such.


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Old 08-17-2010, 05:43 PM   #890
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@Sabretooth: I have to agree with all your points. There's very little substance to Mass Effect's storyline.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b-chjRWdlTg

Mass Effect 2 is getting put onto the PS3.

*sigh* Who else is expecting ME3 will have a 5 hour campaign that plays so much like a third person shooter it just has skills and dialogue to set it apart as an RPG, be entirely multiplayer focused and have a completely balls storyline/characters?

Just me?


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Old 08-17-2010, 06:59 PM   #891
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We'll see. I've heard more than one comment that the fans complained about the dumbed-down (nearly non-existent) RPG elements, so I suspect that they'll make at least some effort to make it more RPG-like.

Hopefully that doesn't translate as "more ME1-like"
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Old 08-17-2010, 07:03 PM   #892
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We'll see. I've heard more than one comment that the fans complained about the dumbed-down (nearly non-existent) RPG elements, so I suspect that they'll make at least some effort to make it more RPG-like.
Bare in mind there were also fans who thought the original Mass Effect was not really an RPG. I don't really foresee Bioware going with the fans that want an inventory or more skills. As the majority of fans I know preferred this more third person shooter gameplay.


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Old 08-17-2010, 07:38 PM   #893
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Bare in mind there were also fans who thought the original Mass Effect was not really an RPG. I don't really foresee Bioware going with the fans that want an inventory or more skills. As the majority of fans I know preferred this more third person shooter gameplay.
Your guess is as good as mine. Again, the one or two comments I've seen seem to acknowledge that the choice wasn't a great one (which would imply that ME3 will be different). What will actually happen is a craps-shoot.

ME is mindless entertainment. ME2 was better mindless entertainment than ME1. I do have slightly higher hopes for ME3, but I'm not too emotionally invested at this point.
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Old 08-17-2010, 08:59 PM   #894
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you guys should see the bioware forums announcement thread. it's flooded and its still getting crammed with posts as i type. the amount of fanboys complaining are hurrendous. Its quite a stupid marketting problem though..I mean, yeah, wider aaudience..but its a wider audience of folks not knowing what a "seren - EDIT: Saren" is..i mean..no mass effect 1 on ps3 is dumb


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Old 08-17-2010, 09:25 PM   #895
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What a shame that the PS3 announcement came so late; I probably would have gotten it, but alas, I got it for my computer last week in lovely HD. Suppose it is for the best, since I could put some mods in this way and tweak the graphics to my liking.

Despite my feelings for Bioware, I really love this game. Especially the loyalty missions.
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Old 08-17-2010, 11:23 PM   #896
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no mass effect 1 on ps3 is dumb
Mass Effect 1 was distributed by Microsoft. I don't imagine any part of their business plan involves handing over market share to their largest competitor.

ME2 on the other hand was distributed by EA who probably wants to get their fingers into as many pies as possible. Though I can't imagine the percentage in this move; porting the game probably cost them at least a few nickels and most people ARE going to play ME2 probably already purchased in on PC. Either the market research says that PS3 owners are a huge untapped source of revenue or someone will have to fall on their sword for pulling the trigger on a dumb mistake.
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Old 08-18-2010, 01:14 AM   #897
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Mass Effect 1 was distributed by Microsoft. I don't imagine any part of their business plan involves handing over market share to their largest competitor.

ME2 on the other hand was distributed by EA who probably wants to get their fingers into as many pies as possible. Though I can't imagine the percentage in this move; porting the game probably cost them at least a few nickels and most people ARE going to play ME2 probably already purchased in on PC. Either the market research says that PS3 owners are a huge untapped source of revenue or someone will have to fall on their sword for pulling the trigger on a dumb mistake.
They mentioned the PS3 version would feature "hours of bonus content". So I am assuming there is some DLC available besides the traditional Cerberus Network stuff for the PS3 version. Something exclusive that they'll release on the 360/PC version a few months later. Something to hook prospective buyers.


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Old 08-18-2010, 01:21 AM   #898
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The thought occurs to me that they could be laying the groundwork for a simultaneous release for ME3. Pure speculation on my part, but it makes sense.
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Old 08-18-2010, 02:13 AM   #899
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The thought occurs to me that they could be laying the groundwork for a simultaneous release for ME3. Pure speculation on my part, but it makes sense.
A simultanious release of ME3 sounds unlikely, I would expect at least another few years or so of hype first before ME3. Just like ME1 and ME2. They mentioned the release date of the PS3 port would be next year.


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Old 08-18-2010, 06:13 AM   #900
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I think Achilles was suggesting a simultaneous multi-platform (i.e. PC/360/PS3) release for ME3, not launching ME3 at the same time as ME2 on PS3. I'd be thinking Xmas 2011 or 1st quarter 2012 is the likely launch window for ME3.
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Old 08-18-2010, 09:16 AM   #901
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Enjoyed it a lot tbh, don't see grounds for all this criticism it seems to be getting here. Mindless entertainment it may be but it's a good deal less mindless than most games out at the moment.
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Old 08-18-2010, 10:59 AM   #902
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*sigh* Who else is expecting ME3 will have a 5 hour campaign that plays so much like a third person shooter it just has skills and dialogue to set it apart as an RPG, be entirely multiplayer focused and have a completely balls storyline/characters?

Just me?
Just you and a few of the cool kids that think it is fun to bash on BioWare.

First Mass Effect and Mass Effect 2 give you choices, sure you can finish the game on speed mode in 10 to 15 hours, but others have taken 28 to 40 hours. My average for both is around 25 and I happen to know where most everything is.

Fan boys and fan girls have been clamoring for ME multiplayer since day one, but the Devs on the BioWare forum have pretty flatly stated keep wishing because it is not going to happen. Perhaps after ME 3, EA will continue to milk the franchise for all it is worth and we will see a multiplayer campaign, Lego ME and Sim ME, but only after ME 3.

Who really cares if the Mass Effect franchise is considered a FPS or a RPG? All I care is that is fun entertaining game with a minimum of bugs. Sometimes I need mindless fun instead of running all over the universe worried about where I’m going to sell the 1000th piece of Phoenix armor.

Already have ME and ME2 for the PC and the 360. It looks like this fanboy needs a PS3 so I can continue to support BioWare in making their highly cliché, but just as highly entertaining and more important playable games.

Off to PM D333 about a certain rules change.


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Old 08-18-2010, 12:41 PM   #903
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I think Achilles was suggesting a simultaneous multi-platform (i.e. PC/360/PS3) release for ME3, not launching ME3 at the same time as ME2 on PS3.
Yep

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Mindless entertainment it may be but it's a good deal less mindless than most games out at the moment.
Yep

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First Mass Effect and Mass Effect 2 give you choices, sure you can finish the game on speed mode in 10 to 15 hours, but others have taken 28 to 40 hours. My average for both is around 25 and I happen to know where most everything is.
Yep. And my complaint now (as was my complaint then) is that they make you choose between the story and the game. Albeit they did a slightly better job of making the choice a) relevant and b) integrated in ME2 than they did in ME1 (i.e. ignoring the threat to the galaxy to secure the loyalty of your team members is slightly less boorish than ignoring the threat to the galaxy to collect asari writings, salarian/turian dogtags, etc).

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Lego ME
Sweet. I would definitely buy it for my son. He's not happy that he's has to wait for many-much-lots-more years before he can play the ME franchise.

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Who really cares if the Mass Effect franchise is considered a FPS or a RPG?
If they turn it into a FPS, I won't play it. Continuing the 3rd person shooter trend won't bother me that much though [/pickingofnits]

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All I care is that is fun entertaining game with a minimum of bugs. Sometimes I need mindless fun instead of running all over the universe worried about where I’m going to sell the 1000th piece of Phoenix armor.
Indeed. It seems that Bioware understands their audience very well. As does Michael Bay

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highly entertaining and more important playable games.
Interesting that you consider those things to be separate.

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Old 08-18-2010, 02:43 PM   #904
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Yep. And my complaint now (as was my complaint then) is that they make you choose between the story and the game. Albeit they did a slightly better job of making the choice a) relevant and b) integrated in ME2 than they did in ME1 (i.e. ignoring the threat to the galaxy to secure the loyalty of your team members is slightly less boorish than ignoring the threat to the galaxy to collect asari writings, salarian/turian dogtags, etc).
Guess I just don’t have that much of a problem suspending disbelief while playing a make believe game. However, I agree with you ME 2 is one of the few games, I remember, that actually gave some consequences for not tackling the problem at appropriate time. Even if it really does not actually make any real difference story wise.
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If they turn it into a FPS, I won't play it. Continuing the 3rd person shooter trend won't bother me that much though [/pickingofnits]
My elevator was not going all the way to the top when I wrote that.
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Interesting that you consider those things to be separate.
I had fun at Graybox, but was unable to play AP beyond that.


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Old 08-18-2010, 03:11 PM   #905
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Guess I just don’t have that much of a problem suspending disbelief while playing a make believe game.
Suspending disbelief works just fine when you tell me that you want to have FTL travel, tidally-locked planets with atmospheres and habitable areas, and captured-object planets in damn near every solar system. Suspending disbelief is not applicable when the main quest is titled "THE RACE AGAINST TIME", then ask me to do things like turn on water for colonists, negotiate the transfer of illicit goods for local merchants, or track down people blackmailing the local doctor. That falls well outside the purview of suspension of disbelief.

Again, I have no problem chalking it up to bad writing, accepting that the game has some fun elements regardless of its flaws, and admitting that every hour I play is indulging in a guilty pleasure. What I do mind is when that particular author is lauded for his fantastic writing.

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However, I agree with you ME 2 is one of the few games, I remember, that actually gave some consequences for not tackling the problem at appropriate time.
Indeed that was a nice touch. Not sure who at Bioware deserves accolades for trying to gritty things up a bit in ME2, but I definitely appreciated that it happened.

Off-topic: I know that "assuming direct control" gets a fair amount of fun poked at it, but it's so much more acceptable than the 15 "your demise is inevitable" monologues we had to suffer through in the ME1. We never-ever spoke to any of the Collectors and when we did hear from Harbinger, it wasn't the melodramatic exposition we saw in the first game. No doubt the writing falls short of "great" but there is noticeable improvement and I think that deserves to be acknowledged.

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I had fun at Graybox, but was unable to play AP beyond that.
Because the game was broken or because it introduced an element of gameplay that you found frustrating (and doesn't have a workaround)? To the best of my recollection, you've never mentioned the former and to the best of my knowledge, the latter doesn't exist in AP.

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Old 08-18-2010, 07:25 PM   #906
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Fan boys and fan girls have been clamoring for ME multiplayer since day one, but the Devs on the BioWare forum have pretty flatly stated keep wishing because it is not going to happen. Perhaps after ME 3, EA will continue to milk the franchise for all it is worth and we will see a multiplayer campaign, Lego ME and Sim ME, but only after ME 3.
It appears that Bioware is considering multiplayer for Mass Effect a bit sooner then you expect.

http://www.actiontrip.com/rei/commen...ml?id=060110_6

http://www.totalvideogames.com/Mass-...yer-15279.html

If in case your thinking this might be for another Mass Effect game. There is a quote to take into consideration

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Intriguingly the post claims the role will involve working "with both the front and back ends to take existing single player user experiences and make them multiplayer safe.

To us, that doesn't sound as though it's a brand new game the studio is creating, but possibly working on the existing technology to incorporate multiplayer. It's probably a little late in the day for a Mass Effect 2 update, but seems reasonable to expect some sort of multiplayer antics for Mass Effect 3."
I am suspecting Co-Operative gameplay for ME3. I do recall Casey Hudson saying in one of his dev interviews that they would have considered Coop for ME2 if it fit into their development cycle.


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Old 08-19-2010, 01:09 AM   #907
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Fan boys and fan girls have been clamoring for ME multiplayer since day one, but the Devs on the BioWare forum have pretty flatly stated keep wishing because it is not going to happen.
Chris Priestley said the same thing about the mass effect series coming to ps3..

EDIT: No..just no. i will resort to being a childish fan boy if this multiplayer thing happens. I demand i have a long and well told story to finish the series on a high. If you want to create more work by making it multiplayer, do that in a future spin off dammit!!

The only way i will ever approve of this is if they follow in rockstars footsteps with red dead redemption..i mean, look at it..plenty of mini games, lots o' sidequests and quite a long campaign, with online multiplayer in it too. if bioware can pull this off, but with the same mass effect feel the first two games have, i'll be satisfied

EDIT2: In fact no, ill be happy if its "red dead effect" but the campaign has to be a LOT longer than RDD's...my total playtime is 18 hours..and i sure as hell haven't done a speed run. ive even left the ps3 on and going out, forgetting. and im well into mexico, i would say, about 3/4 of the campaign done. in mass effect, as i got from the other 2 games, i expect a campaign that lasts at least 25 hours..with sidequests and loyalty quests and such leading to about 35 hours. 30 playtime hours minimum. is it too much to demand?



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Old 08-19-2010, 01:35 AM   #908
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The only way i will ever approve of this is if they follow in rockstars footsteps with red dead redemption..i mean, look at it..plenty of mini games, lots o' sidequests and quite a long campaign, with online multiplayer in it too. if bioware can pull this off, but with the same mass effect feel the first two games have, i'll be satisfied
Red Dead Redemption`s development was far different then Mass Effect. The same with Grand Theft Auto 4. What they did was their development team worked on both designing a large world the player would explore, and then setting and characters. If you compare RDR or GTA4`s missions they are exceedingly linear with very little variations except for a different line here or there if you failed it already. Mass Effect is an RPG and it isnt a sandbox game. Bioware designed large, but officially still boxed in maps the player would go through. With Red Dead Redemption all they had to think about would be what would make this part of the world interesting. That brings things like minigames to light. Online multiplayer would just require scripting and coding and I can still imagine Bioware doing it. (Look at the links I posted previously).

Also I have to mention this, but budget is a big issue as well. GTA4 cost 100 million dollars to develop, and had a much larger development staff at it`s helm (roughly 1000 people).

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EDIT2: In fact no, ill be happy if its "red dead effect" but the campaign has to be a LOT longer than RDD's...my total playtime is 18 hours..and i sure as hell haven't done a speed run. ive even left the ps3 on and going out, forgetting. and im well into mexico, i would say, about 3/4 of the campaign done. in mass effect, as i got from the other 2 games, i expect a campaign that lasts at least 25 hours..with sidequests and loyalty quests and such leading to about 35 hours. 30 playtime hours minimum. is it too much to demand?
A longer campaign also removes other features from the game. Bare in mind that they do have a limited disk space and budget, and the campaign drains that heavily. So a longer campaign could result with drawbacks such as less weapons, less subquests, re-skinned modules instead of new ones etc. You can`t have both a long campaign and a large amount of good quality subquests. That IS to much to demand because it is too strenuous on both the developers and the game. The reason why Mass Effect 1 had a whole bunch of subquests that were basically exactly the same to one another was they just modified things in a txt file. (Like change the mountain size here and there, add object to this area of the map, etc.) Mass Effect 2`s subquests had a lot more depth, but there were significantly less of them.

There is rarely a balance struck in this, and a lot of the times game developers have to make sacrifices. Mass Effect 2 was put on 2 disks for the console, and gamers ended up hating that.


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Old 08-19-2010, 09:44 AM   #909
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A longer campaign also removes other features from the game. Bare in mind that they do have a limited disk space and budget, and the campaign drains that heavily. So a longer campaign could result with drawbacks such as less weapons, less subquests, re-skinned modules instead of new ones etc. You can`t have both a long campaign and a large amount of good quality subquests. That IS to much to demand because it is too strenuous on both the developers and the game. The reason why Mass Effect 1 had a whole bunch of subquests that were basically exactly the same to one another was they just modified things in a txt file. (Like change the mountain size here and there, add object to this area of the map, etc.) Mass Effect 2`s subquests had a lot more depth, but there were significantly less of them.

There is rarely a balance struck in this, and a lot of the times game developers have to make sacrifices. Mass Effect 2 was put on 2 disks for the console, and gamers ended up hating that.
All true but rather missing the point, which was that however the campaign is constructed, it will be as long and fulfilling as possible - multiplayer would compromise that however you choose to build it. It would be a bad idea, if it has to be done, make it a spin-off as someone said ^^.
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Old 08-19-2010, 10:44 AM   #910
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Chris Priestley said the same thing about the mass effect series coming to ps3..
And Chris Priestley was correct Mass Effect is not coming to PS3, Mass Effect 2 is.


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Old 08-19-2010, 12:27 PM   #911
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Hmph.... Im really not liking what im reading. If Bioware insists on going down this path of evil I have no other choice but to unleash some holy wrath(also known as flooding the forum with hate mail and trolling like this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-rDDviYpHEE ) upon them. And the same goes for EA, exept that i will use an army of bots for that rather than the loving hatred of a human being.


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Old 08-19-2010, 11:38 PM   #912
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And Chris Priestley was correct Mass Effect is not coming to PS3, Mass Effect 2 is.
note the word series in what i said?

@topic
Ray Muzyka was recently interviewed on the "bonus content" the ps3 version will have, and said that it will have all the post release dlc (basically..just..the dlc) and something to make a "seamless introduction to the mass effect franchise"..when asked onn what this introduction would be, he didn't comment.

Source.

I still think that Sony must have gave EA a whole wad o' cash for this. Chris Priestley said multiple times that the ME universe wouldn't be on ps3. EA are really making it clear that they ARE the boss.

Chris: Mass Effect 2 Will NEVER be on PS3
EA: ASSUMING DIRECT CONTROL!!!!!
Chris: We are excited to announce, Mass Effect 2 is coming to PS3!


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Old 08-19-2010, 11:48 PM   #913
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Note: the "" too, which usually means someone is joking.


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Old 08-20-2010, 01:51 AM   #914
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Chris: Mass Effect 2 Will NEVER be on PS3
EA: ASSUMING DIRECT CONTROL!!!!!
Chris: We are excited to announce, Mass Effect 2 is coming to PS3!
Somehow I always imagined EA as being an enigmatic alien race from beyond the Omega Four Relay


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Old 08-20-2010, 02:54 PM   #915
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Note: the "" too, which usually means someone is joking.
smartass

@DeadYorick

They so are. they have more money than the collectors though.


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Old 08-20-2010, 03:09 PM   #916
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Who needs money when you can use swarms to get the chicks?
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Old 08-20-2010, 05:03 PM   #917
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Who needs money when you can use swarms to get the chicks?
Yeah but then you have to deal with the fact they are frozen stiff with a look of horror on their faces...

Okay never mind, that might make some readers actively campaign for "Collector Rights" just so they might get a chance to put some swarms into action.


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Old 08-20-2010, 07:43 PM   #918
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having just learned of Mass Effec 2 coming to PS3 all I can say is

*shakes fist angrily at EA*

Big companies ruin all.




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Old 08-20-2010, 08:59 PM   #919
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having just learned of Mass Effec 2 coming to PS3 all I can say is

*shakes fist angrily at EA*

Big companies ruin all.
Yeah bro, **** EA for bringing a great game to people that were unable to play it before, jerks.


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Old 08-20-2010, 09:33 PM   #920
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Yeah bro, **** EA for bringing a great game to people that were unable to play it before, jerks.
EA Bought Bioware when Dragon Age Origins was done, and when Mass Effect 2 was nearing completion. Then we get news of Dragon Age 2 being a fantasy Mass Effect.


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