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Old 03-09-2009, 10:32 PM   #1
GarfieldJL
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University of California Double standards galore

http://www.californiachronicle.com/articles/view/93056

Apparently the University of California attempted to investigate the College GOP for hate speech, yet they allowed pro-HAMAs demonstrations chocked full of anti-sematic statements, etc. In fact:

Quote:
The virulence of anti-Israelism and anti-Semitism at The University of California, Irvine campus, for instance, has been so flagrant and endemic in recent years that it actually prompted an investigation by the U.S. Department of Education´s Office of Civil Rights, the findings of which were issued in a damning 2007 report. But San Francisco State University is not far behind in the ignoble way it has enabled its Muslim students´ organizations to create a veritable reign of terror on campus against Jewish and pro-Israel students, while simultaneously attempting to silence voices of opposition, a situation made evident this January when SFSU´s College Republicans were once again pushed into the limelight for their outspoken challenges to the school´s ubiquitous Palestinianism.
-- California Chronicle

This isn't the only situation, they've faced lawsuits for discrimination against Christians and College GOP:
http://chronicle.com/news/article/26...ge-republicans


I'll find some other links a little later.
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Old 03-09-2009, 11:05 PM   #2
True_Avery
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If what the article says it true, that school needs to get a handle on all of the parties involved at its school, or it should just stop allowing clubs on campus.

If you are going to let your "republican" club threaten students and stomp on their flag as well as let the "liberal" clubs spit and threaten others, then you've got some serious control problems.

As well as the school, the damn students there also need to calm down. All of their clubs, at least by the article's (which felt biased by the way) say, are growing more violent and unpredictable by the day.

They are well on their way to a full blown investigation of the school, and in the end these extremist students may find themselves silenced on all sides due to their own stupidity.
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Old 03-09-2009, 11:16 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by True_Avery View Post
If what the article says it true, that school needs to get a handle on all of the parties involved at its school, or it should just stop allowing clubs on campus.

If you are going to let your "republican" club threaten students and stomp on their flag as well as let the "liberal" clubs spit and threaten others, then you've got some serious control problems.

As well as the school, the damn students there also need to calm down. All of their clubs, at least by the article's (which felt biased by the way) say, are growing more violent and unpredictable by the day.

They are well on their way to a full blown investigation of the school, and in the end these extremist students may find themselves silenced on all sides due to their own stupidity.
The serious flaw in your argument is that the School is only targetting one side, so there is a discrimination issue and free speech issue.


Btw, protesting against a known terrorist group (HAMAS is considered to be a Terrorist Group by the United States Government) isn't extremist, furthermore the Star of David is a Jewish Religious symbol, so we have one side being allowed the equivalent of cross-burning and the other group being charged with Hate Speech.

I've got a few other examples of this kind of stuff ranging from public libraries to public universities.
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Old 03-10-2009, 12:16 AM   #4
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Yeah, some people need to settle down. Or get knocked down. I for one would welcome it if the extremists were STFU'd. If you don't get involved in their venom, everyone in the hype thinks you're with the opposition and treats you accordingly. If they start to punish self defense from this, then it has turned really bad.

I'm going to Nevada if I can ever afford it for my degree. Kiss mine, CA. The system needs to be gutted to eliminate dreg: universities, colleges, community colleges. Yes, such is the ****ty college system here in CA.

Some places are good, lots of good people...even great prof.'s, don't get me wrong. The institutions are ...okay... at their education, but some professors are just so rude. Or staff and guests. Or clubs. It's just not worth it if abuse and grade degradation also has to be tolerated for not absolutely conforming to their views. I don't mind having my views challenged, but some of these people are seriously getting out of line. That's for damn well sure.
I come to learn, not to face adversity from all sides.

Students being allowed to be renegades is unacceptable as well. I'd like to be able to disagree with people without it turning into destruction and vandalism of my property, or escalate into brawls.
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Old 03-10-2009, 12:21 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by GTA:SWcity View Post
Students being allowed to be renegades is unacceptable as well. I'd like to be able to disagree with people without it turning into destruction and vandalism of my property, or escalate into brawls.
I believe that the students had obtained the things they burned legitimately and didn't destroy other people's property (at least the College GOP to my knowledge didn't).
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Old 03-10-2009, 01:28 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by GarfieldJL View Post
I believe that the students had obtained the things they burned legitimately and didn't destroy other people's property (at least the College GOP to my knowledge didn't).
Disturbing the peace is still against the law, and starting a riot like atmosphere can get the cops called on you if they feel the situation may escalate. It doesn't matter if the property they destroyed was there's. What matters was they were promoting hate of a group of people, some of which were on school grounds at the time, and were yelling obscenities, etc. While freedom of speech gives them that right, you are not guaranteed freedom of action.

Not saying it would have, but still.
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Old 03-10-2009, 01:59 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by True_Avery View Post
Disturbing the peace is still against the law, and starting a riot like atmosphere can get the cops called on you if they feel the situation may escalate. It doesn't matter if the property they destroyed was there's. What matters was they were promoting hate of a group of people, some of which were on school grounds at the time, and were yelling obscenities, etc. While freedom of speech gives them that right, you are not guaranteed freedom of action.

Not saying it would have, but still.
The group they were protesting against is a terrorist group.


Yet the pro-Hamas group burning Israeli flags and promoting the hatred of Jews were not investigated at all.
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Old 03-10-2009, 02:03 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by GarfieldJL View Post
The group they were protesting against is a terrorist group.

Yet the pro-Hamas group burning Israeli flags and promoting the hatred of Jews were not investigated at all.
Which is why, if you would double check, I said that the school is dangerously close to a full investigation and -every- group at that school needs to calm down.
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Old 03-10-2009, 10:58 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by True_Avery View Post
Which is why, if you would double check, I said that the school is dangerously close to a full investigation and -every- group at that school needs to calm down.
The school is already under investigation, but this isn't the only incident they are under fire for. I believe, one of the others included banning ROTC from the campus (despite the fact the University gets Federal Funding).
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Old 03-10-2009, 06:26 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by GarfieldJL View Post
The school is already under investigation, but this isn't the only incident they are under fire for. I believe, one of the others included banning ROTC from the campus (despite the fact the University gets Federal Funding).
Source.
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Old 03-10-2009, 09:46 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by PastramiX View Post
Source.
http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles...F-5B4956DBD9D3

However University of California isn't the only one in trouble for this, it also ended up in the United States Supreme Court concerning a few other schools.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,186936,00.html
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Old 03-10-2009, 09:50 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by GarfieldJL View Post
However University of California isn't the only one in trouble for this, it also ended up in the United States Supreme Court concerning a few other schools.
IMO, only state schools should be required to have ROTC, private schools, however can be free to set their own policies.
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Old 03-10-2009, 10:11 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PastramiX View Post
IMO, only state schools should be required to have ROTC, private schools, however can be free to set their own policies.
It's called Federal and state funding.
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Old 03-12-2009, 03:23 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GarfieldJL View Post
I believe that the students had obtained the things they burned legitimately and didn't destroy other people's property (at least the College GOP to my knowledge didn't).
Fine and dandy. Don't tempt breaking the laws most especially if there is obviously a double standard in effect. Gather evidence and shove their empirical arrogance and hypocrisy back in their face. If you want to burn hamas flags and stuff like that to make a statement, fine. Just not out in public where you can get busted for it. If you are going to partake in such activity--discretion is the better part of valor.

People may be blind, but not oblivious. It would not take too much hamas demonstrations for too long before the general public became concerned.

While, yes, I found myself a bit more scrutinized for my beliefs here in CA as well, and yes especially CA higher education is biased (well, not *every* campus, but still)... I would hold back until the other side gave me reason (probable cause) to believe something bad was going to happen and the opposition would cause it. I'd act accordingly to the situation at hand/coming up. Or if it is continual provocation, and they are dumb enough to let themselves be recorded doing it...... give them enough rope to hang themselves and pull the gallow floor out from under them at the right moment.

However, now having said that; the very last thing you want is to promote an ignorance-embracing-image of yourself. The country needs *you* for its defense at home. Doesn't it? If you show yourself to be more ignorant than heroic, it kicks your own legs out from under you in a sense of credibility. Then nobody will listen to you.

It's a game of BS, it's unfair... but we all have to play it unfortunately.

However, you cannot tell me, with cops the way they are, ever eager, capable, ready, and willing...if not chomping at the bit...that something in progress would just simply be allowed to happen.

If hamas really is ominous (no arguments here from me about that) and has intent of malice and harm, the best thing to do is not shoot off all your ammo before the gunfight has begun. Preempt them instead.

It may be that the deck is stacked against patriots so far as judges. However, as the evidence builds, so does the stench from the bench until justice is served.

I left the colleges on several accounts and my own reasons, but the icing on top of it all, yes, was being forced to tolerate fanatical America-bashing people who themselves would not tolerate you.

I also don't appreciate being told I'm not patriotic because I don't do enough rousting.


We'll murder them all, amid laughter and merriment...except for the few we take home to experiment!

"I cant see S***! --YOU GO TO HELL!" --Tourettes guy
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Old 03-12-2009, 04:50 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GarfieldJL View Post
It's called Federal and state funding.
Private schools don't care about state funding anyway - they have trusts more then large enough to sustain them.

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Old 03-12-2009, 04:52 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by EnderWiggin View Post
Private schools don't care about state funding anyway - they have trusts more then large enough to sustain them.
University of California is a public school though...
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Old 03-12-2009, 05:02 PM   #17
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Irrelevant! Do you even read what you quote?
PastramiX said:
Quote:
Originally Posted by PastramiX
IMO, only state schools should be required to have ROTC, private schools, however can be free to set their own policies.
and you responded (by quoting, even!):

Quote:
Originally Posted by Garfy
It's called Federal and state funding.
Keep up, Garfy! We're talking about private schools at this point.

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Old 03-12-2009, 05:15 PM   #18
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Some Private Schools get Federal and State Funding.
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Old 03-12-2009, 05:25 PM   #19
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Dear Lord!

That's what I was talking about! Try reading posts!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ME
Private schools don't care about state funding anyway - they have trusts more then large enough to sustain them.

_EW_
_EW_



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Old 03-12-2009, 08:56 PM   #20
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Dear Lord!

That's what I was talking about! Try reading posts!
I did read your post, I'm saying that more private schools get state and federal money than you think, whether it is for this program or that program.
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Old 03-12-2009, 11:50 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GarfieldJL View Post
I did read your post, I'm saying that more private schools get state and federal money than you think, whether it is for this program or that program.
You have no idea how much funding "I think" private schools get, or how many of them "I think" there are.

Let me repeat:

Private schools don't care about state funding anyway - they have trusts more then large enough to sustain them.

_EW_

Perhaps I should clarify that -most- private schools have trusts large enough for them to be self-sustaining.

_EW_



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Old 03-13-2009, 01:41 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EnderWiggin View Post
You have no idea how much funding "I think" private schools get, or how many of them "I think" there are.

Let me repeat:

Private schools don't care about state funding anyway - they have trusts more then large enough to sustain them.

_EW_

Perhaps I should clarify that -most- private schools have trusts large enough for them to be self-sustaining.

_EW_
To be fair, your original wording made it appear you were talking about all private schools not caring about federal and state funding. Which is not the case for many private schools that rely on outside funding. But your new wording makes it more clear.


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