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Old 06-23-2009, 09:51 AM   #121
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Because it's fun to speculate.

And I am going to create a new thread to study the upgraded animations and artwork of the Special Editions. But I DO NOT want it to turn into a debate or argument.

IMO this thread should be locked and another started for MI2:SE speculation, and if people really want to debate if the SE animation/art is good/bad it can be a different thread with an appropriate title.
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Old 06-23-2009, 09:53 AM   #122
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I said I was done with this agrument parabolee and thats it. I also don't want to turn this into another agrument. Start up your new thread my friend.
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Old 06-23-2009, 12:29 PM   #123
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See, you really don't need to act like that. You don't come into a forum and start disrespecting everyone, especially regulars. I don't understand how I was so uncivil. I am not making digs at you in other threads purposefully, not am I mockingly typing internet speak like, "LOL!!!!!1111" or "WTH!!??!?!111" when I speak to you. If you loved these games so much, where have you been since 2001 when all of this stuff opened?

I don't understand how much argument is pointless. People have a problem with animation and stiffness, not just me. I'm suggesting they could draw stronger poses. You look or read any animation book and you will find something along the line that, "strong poses lead to strong animation." The MI:Remake appears to have manequin like frames somethimes, so I'm addressing that. You're leading to me believe you have never picked up an animation book in your life because you keep arguing against a basic principle I'm trying to apply here. If you asked Richard Williams, John Kricfalusi, Preston Blair (RIP), Jerry Beck, John Canemaker, or even repugnant Michael Barrier if simply doubling or tripling the frames fixes an animation they would all tell you no.
Dude just let it go the agrument or debate (whatever the hell you want to call it) is over. That said I'm done arguing over this. I'm going to go to parabolee's new topic, play so more MI2 and BiA Hells Highway. You reply all you want mister but I aint gonna start arguing (AGAIN).
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Old 06-23-2009, 05:37 PM   #124
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Jeez. Where's a mod when you need one?

You know it's odd. I actually agree with that you're saying, Synth: Getting the fluidity, arcs, etc. correct is VERY VERY important. You can probably get away with a lot more, using fewer frames, by being good at this. I don't see how you can do that with a 1080p version of MI, but if you can produce the evidence, I'd love to see it!

Bottom line, though, you're both arguing a very tiny point: Can you create a 6 frame walk cycle and make it look smooth and fluid?

There's really no need to take it beyond that: One says yes, the other says no. It's ok to disagree.

Also, guys: I doubt anybody here has bothered to read through all of your posts. I certainly haven't. Why not continue your discussion over PMs?

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Old 06-23-2009, 06:03 PM   #125
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Don't worry, we're here, and we're prepared to try and let things get resolved on their own without any interference. Rest assured, we won't let things get nasty. But from now on, please only reply to this thread if you want to talk about the original topic.


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Old 06-23-2009, 07:45 PM   #126
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I'd be happy with this:


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Old 06-23-2009, 07:47 PM   #127
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That......works man! How'd you do that?
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Old 06-23-2009, 07:51 PM   #128
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The image from Steve's blog, and one of the big Guybrush sprites.

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Old 06-23-2009, 08:00 PM   #129
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Niiice. The lines of the background art are a little "Scummvm Supereagle" blurry though.
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Old 06-24-2009, 02:44 AM   #130
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It makes me wonder why they even drew the big Guybrush sprite. It was only used for one scene.
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Old 06-24-2009, 07:18 AM   #131
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I'd be happy with this:

Holy **** dude that looks awesome.

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Old 06-24-2009, 08:46 AM   #132
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I'd be happy with this:

Lol! I've been wanting to mock that up for ages!

I WANTS it!!!

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Old 06-24-2009, 09:06 AM   #133
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It's interesting, they actually stretched Purcell's artwork quite a bit, they also did a lot work, too. Some of the details have been refined in the smaller version. (Plus, they added the "foreground" blurring that's seen in many screens in order to try and add depth.)

Here's it stretched and blurred (including a stretched GB, because I could bother to fix him ).


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Old 06-24-2009, 09:12 AM   #134
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThunderPeel2001 View Post
It's interesting, they actually stretched Purcell's artwork quite a bit, they also did a lot work, too. Some of the details have been refined in the smaller version. (Plus, they added the "foreground" blurring that's seen in many screens in order to try and add depth.)
Nice theories, but I've gotta burst your bubble here: That painting is NOT the one scanned and used for the game... that's just a color test by Purcell.

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Originally Posted by ThunderPeel2001 View Post
Here's it stretched and blurred (including a stretched GB, because I could bother to fix him ).
Guybrush is only stretched, because the image is at 640x400 (just like the original game is at 320x200), which is not a 4:3 resolution. Having it displayed at full-screen on a 4:3-screen would stretch it back correctly.

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Old 06-24-2009, 09:15 AM   #135
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Originally Posted by Laserschwert View Post
Guybrush is only stretched, because the image is at 640x400 (just like the original game is at 320x200), which is not a 4:3 resolution. Having it displayed at full-screen on a 4:3-screen would stretch it back correctly.
Err... No. He's stretched because I stretched your original background.

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Old 06-24-2009, 09:17 AM   #136
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Heh, that is weird. Looking at the two like that, it seems they pretty much completely redrew them once scanned in — too many things don't quite match up for them to have been literally scanned and then touched up a bit.

I guess if most of the art is anything like that, getting high-detail versions of the backgrounds based on Purcell's work would probably take quite a while. Still, probably a much better way than doing them from scratch.

I wonder how these compare to the in-game versions (not got time to locate and compare at the moment):




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Old 06-24-2009, 09:23 AM   #137
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThunderPeel2001 View Post
Err... No. He's stretched because I stretched your original background.
Oh, now I see... anyway, he IS stretched in the screenshots from the original game (and in my mockup) as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thrik View Post
Looking at the two like that, it seems they pretty much completely redrew them once scanned in — too many things don't quite match up for them to have been literally scanned and then touched up a bit.
As I said, that wasn't the image that got scanned. Quoting Purcell from his blog:

This was my first background test of a cartographer's cabin painted in gouache. Peter Chan was a fiend with color markers and we ended up doing a lot of the backgrounds in marker as it was much quicker than painting.

The "Rogue Leaders"-book states the image to be a test as well.

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Old 06-24-2009, 10:29 AM   #138
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You know what is funny about your picture Laserschwert? Look at the inventory section of the screen. The arrow is facing the wrong way.
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Old 06-24-2009, 12:57 PM   #139
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Hey! That looks great!
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Old 06-24-2009, 02:26 PM   #140
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThunderPeel2001 View Post
Bottom line, though, you're both arguing a very tiny point: Can you create a 6 frame walk cycle and make it look smooth and fluid?
Hate to drag this back up, but just to clarify my opinion. I do not think a 6 frame walk can't look smooth and fluid. My opinion was that the higher resolution the character sprite is, the more obvious the lack of frames becomes, and thus it appears less fluid in comparison to a lower resolution 6 frame animation.


But back on-topic. This works for me too :-D (mine are not as good as Laserschwartz's but I threw them together real quick).



Original
Er having trouble finding this, hold on I'll edit it in. (can anyone direct me to this?)

And this -


Original -

Last edited by parabolee; 06-24-2009 at 02:53 PM.
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Old 06-24-2009, 06:43 PM   #141
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Man, I SO want to play that version of MI2!!! It looks GORGEOUS.

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Old 06-24-2009, 06:51 PM   #142
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I wouldn't doubt that
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Old 06-27-2009, 09:42 AM   #143
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I matched the docks as precisely as I could:




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Old 06-27-2009, 09:58 AM   #144
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Again, I tried to match as closely as possible:




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Old 06-27-2009, 09:58 AM   #145
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It looks awesome and all, but shouldn't that arrow be going the other way?
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Old 06-27-2009, 10:00 AM   #146
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Not in the Special Edition

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Old 06-27-2009, 10:32 AM   #147
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This one was easier





(Unfortunately it's also the last bit of concept artwork we have)

Somebody here said that colour reduction techniques had vastly improved since MI2 was released, so I thought I'd do a little test. This is the above hires painting reduced to 210 colours (leaving a fair number available for the sprites, etc) and 320x200. This, in theory, is what MI2 COULD have looked like in 1992, if the software and hardware had been better. Quite surprising, eh?



Last edited by ThunderPeel2001; 06-27-2009 at 10:43 AM.
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Old 06-27-2009, 10:41 AM   #148
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Wouldn't it be possible to make such a version of LeChuck's Revenge in Adventure Game Maker for example?

Though, would take some work to remake all those puzzles.

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Old 06-27-2009, 10:48 AM   #149
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It'd be easier to hack the original SCUMM, I think. But it's a moot point: We don't have the artwork

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Old 06-27-2009, 10:54 AM   #150
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Well there is some on the internet obviously, and a lot can be done with Photoshop too.
I'd be interested in such a project actually. I have some experience with painting in Photoshop aswell as making pixel art and painting.
Original background paintings can be used which are found, the rest can be photoshopped, characters can be photoshopped, items can be redrawn.

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Old 06-27-2009, 10:57 AM   #151
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Hmmm. Okay, I did a similar test using the painting of the boat... The images are almost identical. Maybe the differences in technology wouldn't have made any impact at all.

The TOP image is taken from the painting, reduced the actual game size, and the number of colours reduced. A sharpen filter was added, too.

The BOTTOM image is from an actual screengrab.



Last edited by ThunderPeel2001; 06-28-2009 at 10:39 AM.
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Old 06-27-2009, 11:00 AM   #152
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Well there is some on the internet obviously, and a lot can be done with Photoshop too.
Er, no. The images I've used in the last couple of posts are ALL we have

Also, as for using photoshop to "res-up" the existing artwork, the filters in ScummVM already do that pretty well. I'm afraid we're stuck, waiting for a MI2: Special Edition...

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Old 06-27-2009, 11:04 AM   #153
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I think I've seen more of them on Scummbar.com though.
Let me check...

Edit: or on second thought, maybe you're right.

Still, editing in photoshop, partly by hand will be a big difference from the simple blurring filter in ScummVM.

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Old 06-27-2009, 11:10 AM   #154
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I think I've seen more of them on Scummbar.com though.
Let me check...

Edit: or on second thought, maybe you're right.

Still, editing in photoshop, partly by hand will be a big difference from the simple blurring filter in ScummVM.
To see any noticeable difference I think you may as well redraw the whole graphic, IMO.

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Old 06-27-2009, 11:11 AM   #155
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Maybe I'll give one screenshot a go, see how it turns out.

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Old 06-27-2009, 11:15 AM   #156
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Maybe I'll give one screenshot a go, see how it turns out.
Go for it!

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Old 06-27-2009, 12:52 PM   #157
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With some hands-on work Photoshop might be of help here:



Still I think, right now isn't the best time to start such a project, because and official MI2:SE might still become real...

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Old 06-27-2009, 12:59 PM   #158
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I was having a go at this pic, but your attempt is a lot better than what I did so far.


That 'shop looks really good btw.

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Old 06-27-2009, 01:24 PM   #159
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Another one:



Repainting some of the detail-areas might be enough. Still, we can never get these big enough for full HD resolution without the original paintings to scan.

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Old 06-27-2009, 01:38 PM   #160
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What technique are you using, cause I've been trying some filters and touching up some details by hand, but it doesn't come close to yours.

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