Complete Forgivness?

[Nickelstein]

Recently LucasArts has gotten a new president who is interested in LEC old franchises (like Monkey Island). We're back in the Golden Age of Adventure Games. I guess all of you have played the first chapter of TOMI (if not then go get it,NOW). And I'm sure that we're all happy that SOMI:SE and a possible MI2:SE are coming out but have we forgiven LucasArts completely? Did we get over the games they cancelled (Sam and Max 2, Full Throttle 2) and all the Star Wars games they crapped out? I decided to go back in time (looking at old topics from wayyyyy back) and you guys weren't all to happy with LucasArts . I think there was a whole article on the cancellation of Sam and Max 2 called "What The Hell Are You Thinking LucasArts?!" or something like that. Anyway back on topic. Have you completely or sort of forgave LucasArts?

[Sven_Q45]

Not so sure!
I mean I like the adventure games so much. But now I play almost all adventure games. So, LA is now another company.

Nothing can reach the old ones!

But I´m looking forward to play new adventure games from LucasArts.

[elTee]

The problem with LucasArts is that they have licenses to some superb adventure games. Just having the license doesn't mean shіt, you need the talented staff to turn it into a great game. Even with a decent team, the game can still be pretty bad (EMI!) so I think that by far the most promising thing LucasArts have done, in possibly the last ten years, is give one of their adventure game licenses to someone who can use it properly. That bodes well for the future.

[Monkey Mania]

Won't be forgiven until they remake MI2.

[LordTrilobite]

I happened to like Star Wars, and some of the Star Wars games are also really good, like KotOR and Republic Commando.

Yes I can forgive them.

[SyntheticGerbil]

Nah, there's nothing to forgive. The original talented greats at LucasArts have all moved on. LucasArts doesn't *seem* to have anyone as talented employed anymore. If they do, it's probably all lost to decisions made by bad execs and art directors, as well as the typical corporate pipeline junk.

The only original team member that maybe requires some forgiveness is Mike Stemmle for certain EMI plot twists, and a general feeling that the guy had not even played any Monkey Islands ever before developing a Monkey Island game.

I'm okay with Telltale handling whatever, since there's enough veterans to know what they are doing, but I'm wary of LucasArts doing anything with the old franchises on their own. The stuff that they licensed out or did third party for the last 8 years or so in the Rogue book is pretty bad when held up to some of the stuff earlier in the book from the original teams. It also makes the book end on an extremely sour note, besides the poor writing and factual errors scattered across.

Personally, I was happy when both Sam and Max Freelance Police and Full Throttle 2 were canceled. I congratulate whoever put the axe through those. Full Throttle 2 had terrible voices (writing too from what I've heard) as well as bad dated 3D graphics, ugly art, and horribly redesigned characters. It also seemed to have a lack of any idea of what made Full Throttle good in the first place.

Freelance Police, while overseen by Purcell, looked like it was going off the rails fast. Yellow talking police cat? What the hell? That's not how Sam and Max works.

[Sven_Q45]

Originally Posted by LordTrilobite

I happened to like Star Wars, and some of the Star Wars games are also really good, like KotOR and Republic Commando.

Yes I can forgive them.

I have KOTOR 1 and 2 and Republic Commando. And all RC novels.
KOTOR 1 is great. Really, really great. Didn´t play K 2 yet...
2 Years after the release of KOTOR I wanted to buy one SW game. And that was a good beginning. I don´t buy others. But I fell in love with KOTOR 1. I heard much good things about Kotor.

I´m on Dantooine. For the 33th time now.

[Melancholick]

Originally Posted by Sven_Q45

I have KOTOR 1 and 2 and Republic Commando. And all RC novels.
KOTOR 1 is great. Really, really great. Didn´t play K 2 yet...

If you approach KOTOR 2 like it's KOTOR 1.35, you'll enjoy it quite a bit. It really is just a shadow cast by a vastly superior developer and a classic title; the non-ending earns its place in the pantheon of reasons why LucasArts still has quite a way to go before they've TRULY earned their forgiveness, but the game itself is a few sheckles' worth of fun.

[PastramiX]

Nope. I'm not going to forgive them for giving Obsidian the worst development cycle timeline for a cRPG, especially with the amount of talent that they had, and how K2 would've completely trumped K1 in content, if they had been given enough time. There's also the fact that they denied Obsidian an opportunity to restore the missing content, as well as the fact that they decided to create an MMO over a single-player KotOR 3

Canceling Freelance Police and Battlefront 3 also didn't help their reputation, along with putting out a banal TFU

[The Tingler]

Forgive them? Oh no, but this does go some way towards that.

Only last month Indiana Jones and the Staff of Kings came out though. Forgiveness? Ha!

[Nickelstein]

Originally Posted by Sven_Q45

I have KOTOR 1 and 2 and Republic Commando. And all RC novels.
KOTOR 1 is great. Really, really great. Didn´t play K 2 yet...
2 Years after the release of KOTOR I wanted to buy one SW game. And that was a good beginning. I don´t buy others. But I fell in love with KOTOR 1. I heard much good things about Kotor.

I´m on Dantooine. For the 33th time now.

Force Unleashed sucked though ;]

[Sven_Q45]

Originally Posted by Melancholick

If you approach KOTOR 2 like it's KOTOR 1.35, you'll enjoy it quite a bit. It really is just a shadow cast by a vastly superior developer and a classic title; the non-ending earns its place in the pantheon of reasons why LucasArts still has quite a way to go before they've TRULY earned their forgiveness, but the game itself is a few sheckles' worth of fun.

Well I started it. But long ago. Not bad but not very good. New things but KOTOR 1 is still greatness

[ThunderPeel2001]

The SOMI:SE isn't out yet!!

But I'd have to offer another option: "Getting there..."

[ThunderPeel2001]

Originally Posted by SyntheticGerbil

Freelance Police, while overseen by Purcell, looked like it was going off the rails fast. Yellow talking police cat? What the hell? That's not how Sam and Max works.

What's all this about then?

[SyntheticGerbil]

Originally Posted by ThunderPeel2001

What's all this about then?

Oh haha, in the trailer for the game, there was a yellow police cat looking grumpy and patrolling the streets outside Sam and Max's apartment complex..

The problem is in the Sam and Max universe there aren't really supposed to be any other anthropomorphic animals in place of where an actual human should be, leaving Sam and Max to stand alone, as some weird rabbit and dog freelance police team.

It's surprising how well all Sam and Max stuff has kept to this rule outside of monsters and rats or roaches living on the moon. Even the cartoon didn't go against it besides having Sam's mom appear, but then again Sam and Max's family all appeared in an early Christmas comic as well. So there's no one else besides that to create some kind of weird furry scenario which was surprisingly big in b&w indie comics in the 80s until the internet the stuff insanely widespread. So no alter ego Max with lipstick for Max to fall in love with, no Dave the Tiger auto mechanic malarkey, and definitely no rival animal anthropomorphic animal police force. Sam and Max are supposed to be this weird, crude, mean anomaly that every human in the universe just blindly accepts the existence of.

Besides the alien roaches and rats, any other talking animals are in the spots as they would be normally were they not spitting and swearing at you. So yeah, I was pretty offended by that yellow police cat. I wanted that game canceled from that point on.

[Jeff]

I agree with what many of you have said: They are on the right track. I have tried to remain enthusiastic about LucasArts even while it was looking like they'd never give us what they wanted, so now that there are some upcoming games I am excited about (future ToMI eps, SoMI:SE, SWTOR) things are definitely looking up.

[Giant Graffiti]

Originally Posted by SyntheticGerbil

Oh haha, in the trailer for the game, there was a yellow police cat looking grumpy and patrolling the streets outside Sam and Max's apartment complex..

Maybe it was a police officer disguised as a cat in an attempt to fool Sam & Max?

[Nickelstein]

Who knows? By the looks of it the story didn't seem too clear.

[Udvarnoky]

I definitely forgive LEC, to the extent that forgiveness even applies. The things that made LEC blow were the results of decisions made by management, and key positions in that department seem to get regularly purged. The people running things now are not the people who were running things when Sam & Max got canceled, or even in more recent years.

As for the employees, while I doubt LEC has the right personnel to make a graphic adventure themselves (a fact they themselves acknowledge through their praise-worthy partnership with Telltale) a lot of the people who work at LEC are apparently pretty cool and have in fact been waiting for the right stars to align in order for the awesome things they're doing, like MI1:SE and the Steam releases, to be possible. Under the leadership of Rodriguez, I can't think of any real reason to dislike LEC so far.

[Nickelstein]

@Jeff
Did you vote on the poll?

[Nickelstein]

Originally Posted by Udvarnoky

I definitely forgive LEC, to the extent that forgiveness even applies. The things that made LEC blow were the results of decisions made by management, and key positions in that department seem to get regularly purged. The people running things now are not the people who were running things when Sam & Max got canceled, or even in more recent years.

As for the employees, while I doubt LEC has the right personnel to make a graphic adventure themselves (a fact they themselves acknowledge through their praise-worthy partnership with Telltale) a lot of the people who work at LEC are apparently pretty cool and have in fact been waiting for the right stars to align in order for the awesome things they're doing, like MI1:SE and the Steam releases, to be possible. Under the leadership of Rodriguez, I can't think of any real reason to dislike LEC so far.

So maybe you can vote on the poll? Please? lol

[Snugglecakes]

No not really. Between 1987 and 2000 we got a great game every year. Since 2000 there's been cancellations and one remake. While I'm very excited about the remake of MI1, that's hardly going to right a decade of wrongs. Remember that LEC is a business, seems weird to use the term "forgiveness"! But that just shows how they touched so many people back in the day. There are clearly people at LucasArts now who are pushing for change so lets hope that continues.

I'm very excited about Telltale though. I hope they do very well.

[purple_tentacle_]

Originally Posted by Monkey Mania

Won't be forgiven until they remake MI2.

Ya same here. I wont forgive them until I own MI2:SE. But I dont hate there guts or I wouldnt be on here.

[Nickelstein]

So choose "Not So Sure"

[purple_tentacle_]

I did. But I am still a little mad.

[SyntheticGerbil]

Originally Posted by Gιygαs

Maybe it was a police officer disguised as a cat in an attempt to fool Sam & Max?

We can only hope!

[QueZTone]

i'd like to see a new indiana jones adventure game! or an Emperor's Tomb type with adventure elements... with KOTOR type environments, except in Indy locations..

then ill forgive!

[Huz]

I'm undecided on whether remaking more of their old games would make LucasArts go up or down in my estimation. While SOMI:SE is a great gesture to get new fans interested and a clear sign that LucasArts have started to care about their past again, I can't help but feel that it should be a one-off. Remaking the rest of their back catalogue (or even just one more game, in the form of MI2) would seem... well, cheap and lazy.

Re-releases like the ones we've seen on Steam are always welcome though!

[SyntheticGerbil]

Originally Posted by Huz

I'm undecided on whether remaking more of their old games would make LucasArts go up or down in my estimation. While SOMI:SE is a great gesture to get new fans interested and a clear sign that LucasArts have started to care about their past again, I can't help but feel that it should be a one-off. Remaking the rest of their back catalogue (or even just one more game, in the form of MI2) would seem... well, cheap and lazy.

Re-releases like the ones we've seen on Steam are always welcome though!

Don't get me wrong, while I love the Mario Advance remakes, Nintendo has brought a lot of criticism upon themselves through remake after remake. It seems these days, not only with games, but movies and CDs, that the market has been flooded with remakes, remasters, director's cuts, and whatever else just to make people rebuy basically the same thing. And I fall for it every time, because while I wish they weren't released, I like completist type versions of things.

I would enjoy remakes of all the games that lack voice, but yeah, it is pretty cheap and lazy to constantly do so, and I don't look forward to new art at all really. I get the feeling with the SE of MI, the artists felt like maybe they had to be true to the rest of the series as well as fix some things they perceived as broken at the same time, all the while not even being that skilled themselves. And the longtime fans of course aren't going to feel the same as the team about new art direction choices. Extreme analogy: It's like, you don't want your girlfriend or wife to completely change how they look through plastic surgery 2 decades later, because even though she's rough around the edges, she's isn't exactly the same person you fell in love with before. But hey, this is a George Lucas company right?

If they farm out new adventures in their series to another company with their former designers, that would be great. Maybe pay Hothead to make another Maniac Mansion game? Double Fine could do a Full Throttle followup... Telltale can... keep doing what they are doing...

[LordTrilobite]

Originally Posted by QueZTone

i'd like to see a new indiana jones adventure game! or an Emperor's Tomb type with adventure elements... with KOTOR type environments, except in Indy locations..

then ill forgive!

The environment in KotOR was pretty much it's weakest point. The story was wat was really good.

[Sven_Q45]

No! The only thing I don´t like is that you (the player) don´t really talk!

[Nickelstein]

Remeber to vote people!

[purple_tentacle_]

Originally Posted by Huz

I'm undecided on whether remaking more of their old games would make LucasArts go up or down in my estimation. While SOMI:SE is a great gesture to get new fans interested and a clear sign that LucasArts have started to care about their past again, I can't help but feel that it should be a one-off. Remaking the rest of their back catalogue (or even just one more game, in the form of MI2) would seem... well, cheap and lazy.

Re-releases like the ones we've seen on Steam are always welcome though!

Oh if they redo there old adventrue games than I Will give them total forgivness. But I think they should leave it all to telltale and focus on Indiana Jones. You know a NEW Indiana Jones adventure game. THATS what lucas arts should do. And they shouldnt just redo it like SOMI:SE ( Even though thats pretty aewsome) they need a new one. The perfect Indiana Jones game.

[The Tingler]

I sort of agree with Huz. Monkey Island 2 should definitely be remade - that would make all five games with Dom! And I wouldn't say no to a proper Loom remake, as the CD talkie one is rather cut down.

After that though, I'd rather new stuff and straight easy-to-get re-releases on Steam and consoles.

[SurplusGamer]

As Elaine might say 'You're getting warmer...' but they've still got every opportunity to screw it all up and ask for the map piece.

[LordTrilobite]

Originally Posted by Sven_Q45

No! The only thing I don´t like is that you (the player) don´t really talk!

That didn't bother me that much.

But really, the environments of KotOR are nice, but rather straight forward and linear. Not enough freedom.
The Gothic RPG series really have good level design, aspecially Gothic 2, every corner is filled with something interesting, secrets everywhere waiting to be discovered. While it's still limited, the barriers are set up in a natural way. For example when you're still low level, the forest is simply way to dangerous to enter, while there's not an actual barrier. You could try to enter it, but there would be a large chance you'll die horribly, chased by all sorts of monsters.

In KotOR it's pretty much just walking from hotspot to hotspot killing enemies along the way. And the barrriers are eally obvious.

[Lagomorph01]

Well, they are showing interest in their fans and back catalogue again.
That's a plus.
I just don't hope that they're going to remake all the old adventure games.

It's true what Syntheticgerbil said. They shouldn't really touch the art.
I'd love it if they'll just voice their non-talkie adventure games.
All 5 Monkey Island games with Dom would really kick ass!
I just don't want a second rate art team screwing with the graphics.
I love those old pixels, and I've got the feeling that no HD Graphics can compete with them.
While they may not look pretty by todays standards, they give so much character to the game, and the stuff you don't see, you automatically envision in your mind.
That's also why now new art team can do justice to the old sprites, because everyone has their own opinions about how they should look.

I hope Lucasarts are going to recruit a great new creative team, and start some new IP's.
I wouldn't like them to make a new Full Throttle or Grim Fandango anymore either.
Just some new creative IP's to make Adventure Games great again!
That's also something I'd like to see Telltale do by the way.

[Sven_Q45]

@LordTrilobyte
Agree! A little bit. yeah. KOTOR 2 is better at this point.

[LordTrilobite]

Actually, I think KotOR 2 doesn't really have better environments, it suffers from the same lack of freedom.
Though, maybe a bit less.

[LogicDeLuxe]

Originally Posted by SyntheticGerbil

The problem is in the Sam and Max universe there aren't really supposed to be any other anthropomorphic animals in place of where an actual human should be, leaving Sam and Max to stand alone, as some weird rabbit and dog freelance police team.

I'd like to differ. What they made at Telltale was just great. Let's count regular animals vs. talking ones with human behavior:

Regular animals:
- Bessie, a cow
- Max' termites
- Flies in Stinky's
- Sharks in several places

Talking:
- Rats: Jimmy Two-Teeth, his family, and the audience in hell. Blackmailing, leading a casino, doing a boxing career: nothing rats usually do.
- Mr Featherly, a chicken. A television actor.
- The Bug and his family.
- And there are molemen.
- And 2 cats in Hit the Road. One of them is a messenger, the other probably a bum.
- Also in Hit the Road, stuffed animals start talking at Bumpus Ville in the scene with the edutainment-sign.

And there is Mr Spatula. Hard to tell. He appears to be a normal goldfish and we don't see him doing anything unusual. On the other hand, he is suspected for human behavior, and he ends up in hell probably for a reason.

It appears that anthropomorphic animals are quite common in the Sam & Max universe to me.


Me too was skeptical when they announced Sam & Max: Freelance Police is going to be 3D. I couldn't really imagine that would work since it was based on comic characters. But seeing what they have done at Telltale, I have no doubt that this particular game would had worked just fine as well.
Now, as LucasArts started to sell their adventure games again, maybe they could just release it on Steam, too. There's nothing to loose, right?