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Old 07-23-2009, 07:01 PM   #1
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Hi there, I'm Jedispy...

...and I'm afraid that I might be the only person alive who absolutely hates the idea behind this game.

I guess the thing for me is I am stumbling over the whole "and by the way, this crap is totally canonical sucka!" I would feel better about it if they just said "go ahead and do/say whatever you want. None of this actually takes place in the star wars continuity." By stating this is now part of the SW EU Continuity, you now have "canonical" events such as LuukSkyWokker6834 protecting the galaxy against DarthVayDurr8724. Ugh....it's so painful it hurts deep.

Then you get these people who see the flashy cinematic trailer and think "G-zuss look at them thar graffix!!!!!!111!!one". <Sigh>.....it's a cinematic trailer.....no actual gameplay is shown.

I wish Lucasarts would just come out with a true KOTOR sequel. By sequel I mean an actual sequel. For example, The Hutt Gambit takes place 30 some years after The Phantom Menace. It's in the SW continuity, but in no way is it a sequel to TPM. SW TOR takes place 300+ after KOTOR, but it's somehow considered a "sequel." No! I call shenanigans on that! If it's not a continuation of the exact story arc, it is then not a sequel.

We need a true KOTOR sequel; a KOTOR 3 if you will. We need to know what happened to Revan and the Exile. We need to see more of Bastila Shan. Where's Mission Vao? Juhani? Jolee Bindo? Did HK-47 finally eradicate a planet full of meatbags?

We'll never know because it seems no one is interested in making a KOTOR 3.

I have spoken


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Old 07-23-2009, 07:05 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by jedispy View Post
I guess the thing for me is I am stumbling over the whole "and by the way, this crap is totally canonical sucka!" I would feel better about it if they just said "go ahead and do/say whatever you want. None of this actually takes place in the star wars continuity." By stating this is now part of the SW EU Continuity, you now have "canonical" events such as LuukSkyWokker6834 protecting the galaxy against DarthVayDurr8724. Ugh....it's so painful it hurts deep.
The events might be canonical, but I doubt that the players themselves will become part of canon.






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Old 07-23-2009, 07:12 PM   #3
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Old 07-23-2009, 07:19 PM   #4
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...and I'm afraid that I might be the only person alive who absolutely hates the idea behind this game.
Ba-dump *tish*

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Originally Posted by jedispy View Post
I guess the thing for me is I am stumbling over the whole "and by the way, this crap is totally canonical sucka!" I would feel better about it if they just said "go ahead and do/say whatever you want. None of this actually takes place in the star wars continuity." By stating this is now part of the SW EU Continuity, you now have "canonical" events such as LuukSkyWokker6834 protecting the galaxy against DarthVayDurr8724. Ugh....it's so painful it hurts deep.
What the developers do will be canonical, but the player actions won't be. Think of it as LuukSkyWokker6834 cybering with LaayaOrggana3428 in game, but the only effect it has on canon is saying that a long time ago in a galaxy far away people got it on.

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Then you get these people who see the flashy cinematic trailer and think "G-zuss look at them thar graffix!!!!!!111!!one". <Sigh>.....it's a cinematic trailer.....no actual gameplay is shown.
People would still say that about it if it were a single player game.

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Originally Posted by jedispy View Post
I wish Lucasarts would just come out with a true KOTOR sequel. By sequel I mean an actual sequel. For example, The Hutt Gambit takes place 30 some years after The Phantom Menace. It's in the SW continuity, but in no way is it a sequel to TPM. SW TOR takes place 300+ after KOTOR, but it's somehow considered a "sequel." No! I call shenanigans on that! If it's not a continuation of the exact story arc, it is then not a sequel.
There's a reason it's not called KotOR 3. =O

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We need a true KOTOR sequel; a KOTOR 3 if you will. We need to know what happened to Revan and the Exile. We need to see more of Bastila Shan. Where's Mission Vao? Juhani? Jolee Bindo? Did HK-47 finally eradicate a planet full of meatbags?
And take the fun out of the player killing them in his game? You might as well say the whole series was a dream with bad romance scenes.

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We'll never know because it seems no one is interested in making a KOTOR 3.
Would you want to work with a story that has already been handed off once to another company, whose product was bug-ridden, incomplete, and regarded as decent at best or a failure to plan ahead?

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I have spoken
Not unless you read this post aloud to someone else while you were typing it. :P


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Old 07-23-2009, 07:35 PM   #5
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I wish Lucasarts would just come out with a true KOTOR sequel.
Don't we all?


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Old 07-23-2009, 08:05 PM   #6
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I'm doing the best I can not to be rude...but jedispy you're not the only one who thinks these things. I would say that at least one person has said similar things in virtually every other discussion concerning this game in the LFN community. I'd start quoting posts, but I'm way too lazy to do that kind of digging.

Now as far as canon goes...I can assure you that nothing will be entered into canon about jediguy or sithguy or darthjake2386. As has already been said, the timeline, the events themselves will be, but player actions will not be. Lucasarts holds the reins on what will and won't be canon and while they can be a little much sometimes they are not as stupid as some people consider them to be.

Truth be told we don't know if Lucasarts is interested in a KOTOR 3 or not. Obviously they aren't now with TOR in development, but down the road one never knows. KOTOR was a hugely successful game and a franchise that has many fans. Believe it or not THEY KNOW THIS. A successful launch and subsequent run for The Old Republic may lead to future development of a true sequel.

All we know is that The Old Republic is the direction in which they chose to go right now, and with the MMO market all but void of anything truly innovative besides Blizzard's product they stand a good chance of pulling off what they're trying to do which is make an enjoyable game set in the Star Wars Universe that will be both innovative and true to the franchise.

Okay...I'm done now...thank you and have a nice day.


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Old 07-23-2009, 11:14 PM   #7
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Would you want to work with a story that has already been handed off once to another company, whose product was bug-ridden, incomplete, and regarded as decent at best or a failure to plan ahead?
In all truth, yes I would. It's because the story in itself is what is pure. Yes obsidian screwed stuff up. However the same can be said about many game sequels out there where part 1 > part 2. That shouldn't stop parts 3 and onward from being made. If anything it can help revive a failed franchise. The 2009 Star Trek movie is evidence enough IMO. The Grand Theft Auto games have all been rather successful, minus the one that came out for the NDS. Should that one failure cause all future GTA R&D to cease? Nah. People will still want to beat up defenseless people, shoot police, and kill skanky hookers for drug money because the core of GTA is still preserved in spite of the NDS failure.

I'm not saying that SWTOR shouldn't be made. To be honest, Lucasarts & Bioware are going to make a <insert profanity here>-load of money off this game. I honestly think it's going to knock WOW down a peg (though not dethrone it as Bioware seems to claim). It makes me wonder if Bioware is publicly traded. I wouldn't mind the potentially good investment. <checks finance.google.com> BAH!!!! Lucasarts & Bioware are private. Greedy SOBs.


While I'm not saying SWTOR shouldn't be made, I however will not be playing it. I refuse to continually pay money for a game that I have to pay anywhere from $30-$60 to purchase.

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Originally Posted by suckers who will actually pay real money to play this game
Oh but dude, how can you expect game companies to keep making new stories if they're not paid?
Meh...I really don't care. I honestly think I'll somehow manage to sleep well at night. I guess I'm just really bitter at the greed of the lazy game developers out there. Rather than making games that are memorable with a great story and amazing game play, they leech off the lifeblood of the weak minded masses in order to fart out media that is barely passable as games. Blizzard has made an amazing sum of cash off WOW. Their annual budget for R&D on that game is massively dwarfed by the profit they make off it. Is that a bad thing? Nah, not really. However it's the Starcraft crack whore junkies like me that are left on the street corners holding a cardboard sign that reads "Disabled Terran Veteran. Any amount of money helps. God bless" for a mere scrap of the sweet, sweet opiate that was once the Starcraft experience. Thank God almighty that SC2 is somewhere out there on the horizon promising to give me my long overdue hit.

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...a long time ago in a galaxy far away people got it on
That should be part of the opening crawl for SW Family Guy #2. Ha ha ha


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Old 07-24-2009, 11:36 PM   #8
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I have always admired Lucas's desire to keep most if not all Star Wars content legit and canonical as opposed to Star Trek where god knows what's real anymore. However, their unimpeded desire to sell their souls out for every last penny is once again costing them on this goal. It's fairly annoying, but as it's been pointed out, all the gamer-noobs will hopefully just amount to "people" or "soldiers" or "jedi" that fought during the war, not specific names.

The "realm first" to down Darth Big-Baddie won't be relevant to the story, only that he was killed by somebody.


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Old 07-25-2009, 01:50 AM   #9
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The Grand Theft Auto games have all been rather successful, minus the one that came out for the NDS. Should that one failure cause all future GTA R&D to cease? Nah. People will still want to beat up defenseless people, shoot police, and kill skanky hookers for drug money because the core of GTA is still preserved in spite of the NDS failure.
The NDS was an experiment. It didn't get as many new gamers as they'd hoped. Most of their core audience also was not going to go out and buy a DS. I certainly wasn't. However, yes, it fell short of projecitons and expectations. I do imagine, though, that they will port it to some other systems and see how it works there.

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<snip>
While I'm not saying SWTOR shouldn't be made, I however will not be playing it. I refuse to continually pay money for a game that I have to pay anywhere from $30-$60 to purchase.
Given the economy I think that will be the case with many. However I do know some who believe it should crash and burn.

I'm neutral on this. I'd like to find out more about what happened to Revan and The Exile and to see that malak vader esque guy get murderized.

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Meh...I really don't care. I honestly think I'll somehow manage to sleep well at night. I guess I'm just really bitter at the greed of the lazy game developers out there. Rather than making games that are memorable with a great story and amazing game play, they leech off the lifeblood of the weak minded masses in order to fart out media that is barely passable as games.
Well, first off I can probably take a guess you don't even TRY to write stories, hmm?

TRY making a Kotor 3 storyline that possibly included all the critical variables of K1 and K2, then try to make some kind of story beyond that. ...You won't get very far with one that has any individual significance that also included significance on a lagre galactic scale, I'll tell you that much.

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Brevity
Don't take this personal: From a detached point of view, maybe you ought to consider significance of your own life as opposed to that of a game if for no other reason than your own well being? I mean we are in a recession.


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I have always admired Lucas's desire to keep most if not all Star Wars content legit and canonical as opposed to Star Trek where god knows what's real anymore.
Do not forget DC and Marvel!

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However, their unimpeded desire to sell their souls out for every last penny is once again costing them on this goal. It's fairly annoying, but as it's been pointed out, all the gamer-noobs will hopefully just amount to "people" or "soldiers" or "jedi" that fought during the war, not specific names.

The "realm first" to down Darth Big-Baddie won't be relevant to the story, only that he was killed by somebody.
That's pretty much it. I'm actually more interested in Dynasty of Evil. I consider Path of destruction to be the end of this war. So the finale of the Bane trilogy coming ou this winter will signify the end of the end.

And that's all she wrote, the rest is history.


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Old 07-25-2009, 01:54 PM   #10
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In all truth, yes I would. It's because the story in itself is what is pure. Yes Lucas Arts are money leaching fan screwing **** Bags and screwed stuff up with there stupid release date money grab.
Fixed it.

The games isn't a sequel it's standalone. The cinematic trailer is a cinematic trailer and people stupidity is not Biowares fault.

On the note of everything being Canon, players seem to be juut part of the army with quests and major events more likely being mentioned instead of specific player characters.

And your in no way shape or form the only person alive who absolutely hates the idea behind this game.


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Old 07-26-2009, 02:46 PM   #11
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Well, first off I can probably take a guess you don't even TRY to write stories, hmm?

TRY making a Kotor 3 storyline that possibly included all the critical variables of K1 and K2, then try to make some kind of story beyond that. ...You won't get very far with one that has any individual significance that also included significance on a lagre galactic scale, I'll tell you that much.
I admit I am not professional writer. However I think I could make a good dent. Besides they usually have a team of people to hammer out the details of such a plot. Also If I owned my own Lastnamearts company I'd certainly want to close up the gap and come full circle on a story. Plus I'd be able to afford the professional writers to do it. Money....is there anything it can't do?

I actually am working on my own big time galactic epic storyline. It's all my own. Doesn't take place in Star Wars or any other IP universe. It's all mine....my precious....

Just kidding. Truly though I am working on my own creation. As I said above I am no professional author though. I'm doing the George Lucas thing and I'm coming up with the rough plot, and will hammer out the fine details later. Plus, like George Lucas, I can't write dialog to get myself out of a paper bag. That's why I have my wife to help me out. I write something, and she replies "That's really dorky. Try to write something a little less 'Sci-Fi conventionesque'". Aren't women great?


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Old 07-27-2009, 11:38 AM   #12
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My question here is, what is it, in your mind, that stops BioWare from making KotOR 3 some time up the road?!?

How does this game somehow put the final nail in the coffin for KotOR series?

Maybe I've missed something here. It could very well be. I'm just asking.




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Old 07-27-2009, 12:50 PM   #13
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I guess I'm just really bitter at the greed of the lazy game developers out there. Rather than making games that are memorable with a great story and amazing game play, they leech off the lifeblood of the weak minded masses in order to fart out media that is barely passable as games.
Maybe you haven't been following TOR, but it's making sure to have story as the first focus. They have a few guys writing each class's storylines, which will go about a hundred hours or so from level 1 to level cap. Games like WoW may half-ass story, but TOR is making sure it doesn't. This is BioWare we're talking about, you really think they'd make a storyless MMO that barely passes for a game?


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...and I'm afraid that I might be the only person alive who absolutely hates the idea behind this game.

Then you get these people who see the flashy cinematic trailer and think "G-zuss look at them thar graffix!!!!!!111!!one". <Sigh>.....it's a cinematic trailer.....no actual gameplay is shown.
Many of us are excited about that trailer because it showcases an event shown on the TOR website for months before the trailer's debut as being a key event in the timeline leading up to TOR. I think a Timeline video showcases the assault of Coruscant. The cinematic trailer was just the first blow in the assault. As it ends, you can see the rest of Coruscant being sacked by Sith Forces. BioWare is keeping that tight storyline emphasis, even in their flashy trailers.

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I wish Lucasarts would just come out with a true KOTOR sequel. By sequel I mean an actual sequel. For example, The Hutt Gambit takes place 30 some years after The Phantom Menace. It's in the SW continuity, but in no way is it a sequel to TPM. SW TOR takes place 300+ after KOTOR, but it's somehow considered a "sequel." No! I call shenanigans on that! If it's not a continuation of the exact story arc, it is then not a sequel.

We need a true KOTOR sequel; a KOTOR 3 if you will. We need to know what happened to Revan and the Exile. We need to see more of Bastila Shan. Where's Mission Vao? Juhani? Jolee Bindo? Did HK-47 finally eradicate a planet full of meatbags?
By that logic, KotOR2 isn't a real sequel to KotOR, since it picked up a few years later with a completely new/different character(the Jedi Exile) and focused on that character's story, with only a few veiled references to Revan's doings since KotOR 1. It wasn't "a continuation of the exact story arc" as you put it. "If it's not a continuation of the exact story arc, it is then not a sequel." right?


Quote:
We'll never know because it seems no one is interested in making a KOTOR 3.

I have spoken
TOR is currently KotOR 3, no matter how much you wish it weren't so. I doubt we'll see a KotOR 3, and TOR sure ain't stopping them from making KotOR3. TOR is a boon for we who wanted more story in the KotOR era after LucasArts had largely given up on it outside comics.

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Old 07-27-2009, 12:52 PM   #14
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While I'm not saying SWTOR shouldn't be made, I however will not be playing it. I refuse to continually pay money for a game that I have to pay anywhere from $30-$60 to purchase.
Oh and if you're never going to even give TOR a chance, why are you posting here?


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Old 07-27-2009, 02:29 PM   #15
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"That's really dorky. Try to write something a little less 'Sci-Fi conventionesque'"
"Verily, young Laser Princess Aygeeuna, thy royal family and pod-children shalt be slain for their heresy of failing to appease the great Lord Zargorthon with blood"?

:P


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Old 08-01-2009, 07:17 AM   #16
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Your not the only one who doesn't like this game.I don't like it myself(don't like meaning I loathe the very man who came up with this idea and to call it a "sequel for KOTOR").
I don't know what the hell is going on with the whole canon/non-canon thing.TFU screwed the very essence of SW canon,TOR is creating a new era "the old republic,older than Episode one,but still not as old as in KOTOR" which imho will be plagued by compromises in the story,to serve for mmo gameplay.
I personally wish the game will fail,as i see this as yet another attempt of senseless,greedy milking of the dehydrated SW cow.


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Old 08-01-2009, 08:30 AM   #17
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Your not the only one who doesn't like this game.I don't like it myself(don't like meaning I loathe the very man who came up with this idea and to call it a "sequel for KOTOR").
I don't know what the hell is going on with the whole canon/non-canon thing.TFU screwed the very essence of SW canon,TOR is creating a new era "the old republic,older than Episode one,but still not as old as in KOTOR" which imho will be plagued by compromises in the story,to serve for mmo gameplay.
I personally wish the game will fail,as i see this as yet another attempt of senseless,greedy milking of the dehydrated SW cow.
If TOR fails, you'll sure never see another game in that era, not even KotOR 3. Even if I hated TOR, I'd hope it succeeds just so LucasArts sees promise in that era to make more games.

TFU didn't screw up canon, it just added more. It added some odd details to the founding of the Rebel Alliance, but we've had contradicting sources of info going back to the Death Star's plans being stolen(I think at last count, there were at least 3 or 4 separate plans for it stolen, all combined into one big plan for the thing).

TOR is in a relatively clean era, devoid of lore to mess up. That's the very reason KotOR was put in that time, it's far enough back that you pretty much have total freedom to do whatever you want back then, short of destroying worlds seen in later times. KotOR wasn't even the first thing in that era, it was populated by comics for years before KotOR. There were references to characters from those comics, Quel-Droma, Sunrider, etc. KotOR 2 even took place partly on D'xun, the moon of Onderon(I think).

But anyways, the era allows TOR to do lots of things with vehicles and ships. Trooper armor looks clone-ish, but no one ever said the Clone Armor was a brand new, never before seen design. Ditto on the designs of the capital ships and shuttles and fighters. It's easy to say they used some really old designs that looked good and functional. A Republic that's upwards of 25,000 years old is going to stagnate in technology after a while. You simply hit a point where you can't really advance further. That seems to be common in the SW universe. Even after the movies, they don't really advance past the technologies already there.


As for the story being compromised for MMO conventions, I've been seeing more of the reverse actually. We've heard almost nothing about the traditional MMO stuff like Dungeons and Player Versus Player. It's all been the single player stuff you see in non-MMO RPGs. I've actually been wondering when we'll start seeing the MMO stuff, since we've already been shown a lot of stuff for the more typical RPG nuts.


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Old 08-01-2009, 09:37 AM   #18
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If TOR fails, you'll sure never see another game in that era, not even KotOR 3. Even if I hated TOR, I'd hope it succeeds just so LucasArts sees promise in that era to make more games.
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TFU didn't screw up canon, it just added more. It added some odd details to the founding of the Rebel Alliance, but we've had contradicting sources of info going back to the Death Star's plans being stolen(I think at last count, there were at least 3 or 4 separate plans for it stolen, all combined into one big plan for the thing).
Contradicting sources are not evidence of story screw up?And add a character that is godlike in a time period where there was already a being that was the chosen one(i.e. vader)

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As for the story being compromised for MMO conventions, I've been seeing more of the reverse actually. We've heard almost nothing about the traditional MMO stuff like Dungeons and Player Versus Player. It's all been the single player stuff you see in non-MMO RPGs. I've actually been wondering when we'll start seeing the MMO stuff, since we've already been shown a lot of stuff for the more typical RPG nuts.
Just because we didn't get any news on Instances does not mean that they are not in the game.There has been no video of actual gameplay.


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Old 08-02-2009, 05:07 AM   #19
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it's business, when starting a new game, you have a new system(s) XBOX-360 and PS3 to start new again. But looking into the Future, gamin' industry will get even better. Advanced technology, graphic. I'm just happy that Star Wars game comin' out in MMO. Atari outta here. Here comes new XBOX/PS3- I'm only 35 years old. Wonder what's looks like when I'm 50 years old. Anyway, I think Lucas can say video game is where Star Wars belong! Yes, I've completed KOTOR 1 & 2. Lookin' foward to meeting my new master in MMO-
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Old 08-02-2009, 09:41 AM   #20
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at above post: Star wars can be movies also not just games its ju8st that they gotta only let lucas give the general story line and not let him touch it after that lol.

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Old 08-03-2009, 06:04 AM   #21
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My question here is, what is it, in your mind, that stops BioWare from making KotOR 3 some time up the road?!?

How does this game somehow put the final nail in the coffin for KotOR series?

Maybe I've missed something here. It could very well be. I'm just asking.
Oh, the whole "this game has so much content it will be KOTOR 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, and beyond" statement has riled people.

While I generally agree with you in terms of money from sales (I mean, who knows if uncle George will or won't be returning to do a K3 for a little more $$$ he deems "worth it" one day?), on the other hand I am so used to seeing 'less-than-par' quality games churned out as "the game" and nothing else on top of it that I am inclined to say laziness might win out on this one. Squeezing stones for water as it were. Then they only nickel and dime you to death on added extras.

The "coming back and doing prequel/sequel" experiments are yielding their results after all.

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I admit I am not professional writer. However I think I could make a good dent. Besides they usually have a team of people to hammer out the details of such a plot. Also If I owned my own Lastnamearts company I'd certainly want to close up the gap and come full circle on a story. Plus I'd be able to afford the professional writers to do it. Money....is there anything it can't do?
Oh there is a whole list I'm not about to start on.

I suppose if you had a story of your own, you could ask critiques of modders who hang around the outer regions of the KOTOR area here in LF. That way you'd begin to see what I was talking about.
I'm no modder, but I can look it over. I have a general feel for the sort of story that would make compared to that of LF storylines. I also have a fair bit of college English under me.


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I actually am working on my own big time galactic epic storyline. It's all my own. Doesn't take place in Star Wars or any other IP universe. It's all mine....my precious....


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Just kidding. Truly though I am working on my own creation. As I said above I am no professional author though. I'm doing the George Lucas thing and I'm coming up with the rough plot, and will hammer out the fine details later. Plus, like George Lucas, I can't write dialog to get myself out of a paper bag.
You have the right way down. Get the general idea.

However: The most you could hope for is a mod and I'll tell you why striking out with such an ambitious title for it as "unofficial KOTOR 3" is a bad idea in private if you want. I doubt LA's franchise will continue to live on after uncle George goes kaput. I think the MMO is hi retirement plan to be honest.

Even if the corporation does live on and take over...I just don't see it all lasting. Or that George would want an heir. I really do think he is that kind of a person.

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That's why I have my wife to help me out. I write something, and she replies "That's really dorky. Try to write something a little less 'Sci-Fi conventionesque'". Aren't women great?
Well in some ways she has a point, but I would not discourage you if you think you have a great storyline. At the least you can make an RP and play with a friend, though it may be just as dorky if not more dorky.

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Your not the only one who doesn't like this game.I don't like it myself(don't like meaning I loathe the very man who came up with this idea and to call it a "sequel for KOTOR").
I don't know what the hell is going on with the whole canon/non-canon thing.TFU screwed the very essence of SW canon,TOR is creating a new era "the old republic,older than Episode one,but still not as old as in KOTOR" which imho will be plagued by compromises in the story,to serve for mmo gameplay.
I personally wish the game will fail,as i see this as yet another attempt of senseless,greedy milking of the dehydrated SW cow.
Well, that is the perspective against the MMO, essentially. Still, I cannot help but see that this (succceed or fail) may in fact be the last major thing for the SW line--especially now that you have echoed my thoughts about the dignity remaining of SW franchise. That is worth considering at least. Still, I've seen opponents and proponents. I'm pretty neutral to it all, really.

At the point of milking a dehydrated cow that is SW, I do agree with you, actually. It is an insult at a certain point. (I wish Capcom would quit abusing the megaman franchise like that!!!) People are getting sick of being given mediocre products for a franchise they love.

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Originally Posted by alphagrim View Post
SW Galaxies failed but we still got games after
Valid point. Still I challenge that this may very well be the last major thing of SW--George is getting old and it may be time for him to "hang it up".
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Contradicting sources are not evidence of story screw up?And add a character that is godlike in a time period where there was already a being that was the chosen one(i.e. vader)
I'd be interested (if via a PM) to hear what TFU screwed up. Though it made a few other things valid.

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Just because we didn't get any news on Instances does not mean that they are not in the game.There has been no video of actual gameplay.
Valid also.

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Originally Posted by Anakin22 View Post
it's business, when starting a new game, you have a new system(s) XBOX-360 and PS3 to start new again. But looking into the Future, gamin' industry will get even better. Advanced technology, graphic. I'm just happy that Star Wars game comin' out in MMO. Atari outta here. Here comes new XBOX/PS3- I'm only 35 years old. Wonder what's looks like when I'm 50 years old. Anyway, I think Lucas can say video game is where Star Wars belong! Yes, I've completed KOTOR 1 & 2. Lookin' foward to meeting my new master in MMO-
To be perfectly honest with you, I am beginning to see a decline in the video games' quality as of late. A slump. Kinda like TV was having in the 70's and stuff. Sure capabilities are beyond that of anything prior. No doubts there. However we're seeing all the same content over and over again. People are tiring of mediocrity, not to mention the trend of the world and where it is heading economically. The gaming industry is like all others and it is soon to hit a road of gravel and slow way down if it hasn't begun already.

It's been going strong all this time, but the rampage has to end and burn someday.
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Old 08-03-2009, 06:28 PM   #22
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Don't we all?
No.
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...and I'm afraid that I might be the only person alive who absolutely hates the idea behind this game.
If you explored this forum, you would know that you are definitely not alone in that regard.
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I guess the thing for me is I am stumbling over the whole "and by the way, this crap is totally canonical sucka!" I would feel better about it if they just said "go ahead and do/say whatever you want. None of this actually takes place in the star wars continuity." By stating this is now part of the SW EU Continuity, you now have "canonical" events such as LuukSkyWokker6834 protecting the galaxy against DarthVayDurr8724. Ugh....it's so painful it hurts deep.
Okay, not everyone is going to be called HandSolo13964 or LayAOrganASolo8885.

And really, if this part of the canon offends you so bad, ignore it...just like I ignore TFU.
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Then you get these people who see the flashy cinematic trailer and think "G-zuss look at them thar graffix!!!!!!111!!one". <Sigh>.....it's a cinematic trailer.....no actual gameplay is shown.
They never said it was a gameplay sample, some idiots take it that way. It's a phenomena that happens all the time.
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I wish Lucasarts would just come out with a true KOTOR sequel. By sequel I mean an actual sequel. For example, The Hutt Gambit takes place 30 some years after The Phantom Menace. It's in the SW continuity, but in no way is it a sequel to TPM. SW TOR takes place 300+ after KOTOR, but it's somehow considered a "sequel." No! I call shenanigans on that! If it's not a continuation of the exact story arc, it is then not a sequel.

We need a true KOTOR sequel; a KOTOR 3 if you will. We need to know what happened to Revan and the Exile. We need to see more of Bastila Shan. Where's Mission Vao? Juhani? Jolee Bindo? Did HK-47 finally eradicate a planet full of meatbags?
And what is supposed to happen in this KOTOR3 that didn't already happen in K1 and TSL? Hmm? Most likely a K3 would be given to Bioware rather than Obsidian and the result is that all story-depth from TSL would be thrown away and we would have more small Galaxy syndrome and more "let's play psychologist and fix the family problems of my party members even thought they will still be incredibly angsty and 1-dimensional" and more kill the evil overlord and destroy the deus ex machina all over again. Sorry, but TOR is what we need. TOR is the child of what a complete TSL should have been, where you make your own personal epic and boring "quest stories" are gone. K3 would be the death of the series, and is completely unnecessary. By putting TOR 300 years latter [JOKE]with 300 SPAAAAARTANS!!![/JOKE] you have more leg room.

Sorry, but if you think about it we should be grateful that K3 was never made so that the sacredness of TSL was not murdered by LucasArts.


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Old 08-03-2009, 06:51 PM   #23
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...and I'm afraid that I might be the only person alive who absolutely hates the idea behind this game.
Nope. I loathe it too. We aren't alone. We are in a minority, though. Most of us don't post in this section, though, given it's pro-Biowhorian and pro-TOR nature. Come over to Ahto and you'll find a greater concentration of sceptics.

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Originally Posted by jedispy
Then you get these people who see the flashy cinematic trailer and think "G-zuss look at them thar graffix!!!!!!111!!one".
To be fair, that is very telling, and confirmed all my suspicions about it being full of exactly the people you describe. In short, all the problems that assailed Galaxies are going to haunt TOR and then some.

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Originally Posted by Jan Gaarni
y question here is, what is it, in your mind, that stops BioWare from making KotOR 3 some time up the road?!?

How does this game somehow put the final nail in the coffin for KotOR series?

Maybe I've missed something here. It could very well be. I'm just asking.
… That they’ve made it abundantly clear that as far as they are concerned, this is the third installment in the KotOR series, no matter what it’s named? In any case, a BioWhore K3 would… not be good. An Obsidian K3… now there you’re talking.
Oh, and Hall? There are those of us who consider TSL to be a masterpiece, if a broken one.
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Originally Posted by RogueJedi86
Maybe you haven't been following TOR, but it's making sure to have story as the first focus.
There are two options for this one, given current trends in the MMO market: Either the game has "story" as the main concern like WoW does, or the game will be a commercial flop. People do not want from an MMO what they want from an SPRPG and vice versa, even fans of one market in the other. This has been proven time and again.

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Originally Posted by RogueJedi86
This is BioWare we're talking about, you really think they'd make a storyless MMO that barely passes for a game?
Again, there are two options: It has no plot like WoW, or it has another ********ty "save the universe" plot like every other BioWhore game. My money is on them trying something like Mediocrity Effect.

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Originally Posted by RogueJedi86
Oh and if you're never going to even give TOR a chance, why are you posting here?
Censor locuta est, causa finita est!

I come across this crap in all fan circles, though most often in Dr. Who circles. "If you don't like the New Series, don't post here!", which is a (not-so-)clever way of saying "how dare you critique something I like!"
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Originally Posted by RogueJedi86
If TOR fails, you'll sure never see another game in that era, not even KotOR 3. Even if I hated TOR, I'd hope it succeeds just so LucasArts sees promise in that era to make more games.
Crap. This is the same non-argument which was hawked around by in 2005/6 by which if we didn't all rush out and buy copies of Biowhore's latest there would be no K3.



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Old 08-03-2009, 08:08 PM   #24
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Crap. This is the same non-argument which was hawked around by in 2005/6 by which if we didn't all rush out and buy copies of Biowhore's latest there would be no K3.
Statistically speaking, games that aren't popular or don't sell, don't get sequels, and in this market, can also mean the death of a company. Unless they are part of such a long-lived series that a few failures *coughRedAlert3cough* can be accepted and still maintain the popularity of the series. Or owned by such a cost-cutting, game whoring company *coughEAcough* that it doesn't matter what they do.


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Old 08-03-2009, 08:09 PM   #25
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Statistically speaking, games that aren't popular or don't sell, don't get sequels. Unless they are part of such a long-lived series that a few failures *coughRedAlert3cough* can be accepted and still maintain the popularity of the series.
All well and good, but KotOR II sold well, and that's not what the argument is about.



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Old 08-03-2009, 11:50 PM   #26
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Oh, and Hall? There are those of us who consider TSL to be a masterpiece, if a broken one.
Now you just need to find a company that's willing to stake their reputation on fixing a broken masterpiece.


Let's kill ourselves.
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Old 08-06-2009, 09:29 AM   #27
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I also enjoy disliking games I have not played too, because the company did not follow what I wanted. But that is a common thing, the forums on mmorpg are full of people bashing AION, even if they had not tried the game at all.

Anyways, it's a Bioware game. That itself makes it a step above 99% of the trash out their today. I would try it just for that, even if it wasn't a Star Wars game.

Also, I would much prefer NO game, to another buggy, what content?, lol the end? game like KotOR 2.

While a single player game is fun, I just love the group aspect of MMO's. I think this could be a giant step in the right direction. I trust bioware, hafta see how antsy EA gets though.
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Old 08-06-2009, 12:54 PM   #28
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SW Galaxies failed but we still got games after
After SWG failed, there was a big absence of Original Trilogy games and novels. If I recall, the recent Matt Stover novel "Luke Skywalker & The Shadows of Mindor" was the only thing in the past few years to be set in that era. So there you go. SWG nearly killed the most popular era on its own. Imagine how another failed MMO would kill a relatively obscure period thousands of years before the movies.

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Contradicting sources are not evidence of story screw up?And add a character that is godlike in a time period where there was already a being that was the chosen one(i.e. vader)
I was gave the Death Star contradictions example as proof that the EU has had contradictions going back 20 years. Contradictions are nothing new or damning. TFU is far from the first to add any contradictions, even when it didn't really contradict, and only added to the machinations that led to the formation of the Rebel Alliance.

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Just because we didn't get any news on Instances does not mean that they are not in the game.There has been no video of actual gameplay.
We have got news on instances. The "Flash Points" are instances with story focus. And to flip your statement back at you, just because there's been little news on instances doesn't mean there will nothing but story-breaking instances in the game.


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Old 08-06-2009, 12:59 PM   #29
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Most of us don't post in this section, though, given it's pro-Biowhorian and pro-TOR nature.
Clever of you to insult BioWare by calling them whores, just because you don't like them making an MMO. They made KotOR also, but I guess you just can't accept them making one of the best RPGs period(not to mention one of the SW games ever).

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Again, there are two options: It has no plot like WoW, or it has another ********ty "save the universe" plot like every other BioWhore game. My money is on them trying something like Mediocrity Effect.
Why does it have to be those 2 options? It'll obviously have a plot(unlike WoW), since they're dedicating most of their work to writing stories. Unlike WoW and others, they're molding the gameplay around the stories, not making stories to fit the gameplay(ie random stories to fill out a kill quest). As for the "another ********ty save the universe plot like every other BioWhore game" angle, BioWare knows what MMOs are. They know everyone can't be the savior when there's several classes, each with their own distinct storyline. The story will likely be sticking to your character class and his own little antagonists. Also, how clever of you to use the "BioWhore" insult again.

Great jab against Mass Effect too. "Mediocrity Effect", did you make that up on your own? Lemme guess: you barely played Mass Effect, if at all. It is a very good game, with no mediocrity that I've seen. The mix of shooter and RPG combat has been very fun. Not to mention the very original and well-researched science fiction setting and story. As I read the Codex in ME, I'm constantly impressed by how the science behind Faster Than Light travel and Stealth systems and stuff closely matches real life sciences.

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People do not want from an MMO what they want from an SPRPG and vice versa, even fans of one market in the other. This has been proven time and again.
People definitely want more typical RPG conventions in their MMORPGs. That's why MMOs have been trying to give more story emphasis as of late to entice players. Players want more engaging storyline without a forced grouping aspect. I don't know where you got the idea that people didn't want it.

Where has this lack of want for SRPG been proven? Most MMOs haven't even tried story focus. FFXI is one of the few out there with a strong storyline component that helps dictate the game, and it's been going strong with 500k players for many years. It is very much a success, despite its forced grouping. I know WoW has 10 million players, but for all the non-WoW MMOs, 500,000 subscribers is a damn proud achievement, especially when they stay beyond the first 2 or 3 months after launch.

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Crap. This is the same non-argument which was hawked around by in 2005/6 by which if we didn't all rush out and buy copies of Biowhore's latest there would be no K3.
And which 2005/6 game is that? KotOR was 2003, and KotOR2 wasn't made by BioWare. And again you use that "BioWhore" insult. It's getting childish and old, you can stop anytime now.


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Old 08-06-2009, 01:41 PM   #30
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Clever of you to insult BioWare by calling them whores, just because you don't like them making an MMO.
I dislike them for more than the MMO, kthxbai.

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They made KotOR also, but I guess you just can't accept them making one of the best RPGs period(not to mention one of the SW games ever).
No, KotOR is far from one of the best RPGs ever. Much as I like the game, there's no point in inflating it beyond its position.

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Why does it have to be those 2 options? It'll obviously have a plot(unlike WoW), since they're dedicating most of their work to writing stories. Unlike WoW and others, they're molding the gameplay around the stories, not making stories to fit the gameplay(ie random stories to fill out a kill quest).
Because the market wants what WoW has, and LA, EA a nd Biowhore want to make money.

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As for the "another ********ty save the universe plot like every other BioWhore game" angle, BioWare knows what MMOs are. They know everyone can't be the savior when there's several classes, each with their own distinct storyline. The story will likely be sticking to your character class and his own little antagonists.
That would fly in the face of Bioware's history.

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Also, how clever of you to use the "BioWhore" insult again.
Sarcasm fail. You aren't the wit you think you are.

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Great jab against Mass Effect too. "Mediocrity Effect", did you make that up on your own? Lemme guess: you barely played Mass Effect, if at all.
You guessed wrong. I played through the bland, derivative, dull, poorly optimised, ********tily written banality from start to finish. I even did some of the obnoxiously ********e sidequests.

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It is a very good game, with no mediocrity that I've seen.
If you think that, you haven't played many genuinely good games.

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The mix of shooter and RPG combat has been very fun.
No. It's a poor example of an FPS/RPG, and combat is not a great strength of the game. Jade Empire's combat is better implemented, all things considered.

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Not to mention the very original and well-researched science fiction setting and story. As I read the Codex in ME, I'm constantly impressed by how the science behind Faster Than Light travel and Stealth systems and stuff closely matches real life sciences.
That's not a setting, that's a mini-wikipedia. There's a difference.

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People definitely want more typical RPG conventions in their MMORPGs. That's why MMOs have been trying to give more story emphasis as of late to entice players. Players want more engaging storyline without a forced grouping aspect. I don't know where you got the idea that people didn't want it.
Everything about the market points to story-light, grind-heavy and easy and frequent levelling being what sells.

[QUOTE]Where has this lack of want for SRPG been proven? Most MMOs haven't even tried story focus. FFXI is one of the few out there with a strong storyline component that helps dictate the game, and it's been going strong with 500k players for many years. It is very much a success, despite its forced grouping. I know WoW has 10 million players, but for all the non-WoW MMOs, 500,000 subscribers is a damn proud achievement, especially when they stay beyond the first 2 or 3 months after launch.[/QUOE]
Again, they have tried to inject more story into it - you know what they got? Complaints about all these icky bits of text in between their grind-sessions.

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And which 2005/6 game is that? KotOR was 2003, and KotOR2 wasn't made by BioWare.
That'd probably be Jade Empire, but you've stumbled on the very point I was making: the argument is nonsense. If TOR's successful, there will be no more games in this time period: Why produce something to compete with your golden goose?



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Old 08-07-2009, 09:18 AM   #31
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This whole discussion is nothing more then opinions upon opinions. there is no need to start insulting people or companies about a thing that is still in production and no one actually played it yet to fully judge it.

you either hate the idea or love it...
this discussion imo is going nowhere fast and is likely to be closed anytime soon.

and to most people in this discussion... either get some help cause... DAMN! or switch to decaff or something...

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Old 08-07-2009, 11:05 AM   #32
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Old 08-07-2009, 01:52 PM   #33
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Just because KOTOR 2 was buggy doesn't mean that there doesn't deserve to be a part 3. Just don't let Obsidian make the game (are they even a company anymore?). Nintendo doesn't make Metroid games anymore. That gets all hired out (I believe it is Team Ninja who is making the next 3D Metroid game). Same with Lucasarts. What was the last game that Lucasarts actually made? It's always hired out. And believe you me, there have been plenty of crappy Lucasarts games. However that shouldn't stop more Star Wars games from being made.

Let there be no mistake in what I'm saying. Old Republic is going to be a resounding success and will make an incredible amount of money. Blizzard may possibly even feel a bit of a crunch when it comes to the number of new subscriptions to WoW. However, I am suspicious that there may very well be a WOSC in production. How do I know this? It's just all part of my collection of conspiracy theories about the universe. A World of Starcraft game would easily slap SW:OT into the ground like the dirty little monkey it is.


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Old 08-07-2009, 02:05 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by jedispy View Post
Just because KOTOR 2 was buggy doesn't mean that there doesn't deserve to be a part 3. Just don't let Obsidian make the game (are they even a company anymore?).
Yes, and they should definitely be the ones making part III if you want a story anywhere near on a par with TSL's.



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Old 08-07-2009, 02:12 PM   #35
jrrtoken
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Just because KOTOR 2 was buggy doesn't mean that there doesn't deserve to be a part 3. Just don't let Obsidian make the game (are they even a company anymore?).
Yes, they've been actively releasing games for over the past few years now. Also, might I comment on your lack of reasoning in your opinion.
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Nintendo doesn't make Metroid games anymore. That gets all hired out (I believe it is Team Ninja who is making the next 3D Metroid game).
Retro Studios was contracted as a second-party developer for the Prime sub-series, but since the majority of their stock is owned by Nintendo, they're technically a first-party developer.

As for Metroid: Other M; it is being developed a cooperative of Team Ninja and Nintedo proper, so it is a first-party title.
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Same with Lucasarts. What was the last game that Lucasarts actually made?
SoMI:SE, if you can consider that a new title. The Clone Wars: Jedi Alliance/Lightsaber Duels, if you can even consider those good games.
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It's always hired out. And believe you me, there have been plenty of crappy Lucasarts games. However that shouldn't stop more Star Wars games from being made.
Right, that's my concern as well.
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Let there be no mistake in what I'm saying. Old Republic is going to be a resounding success and will make an incredible amount of money.
Uh, not exactly. It might make several million, yes, but so did Galaxies, and that's considered a failure due to market share. Yet, as of now, it's really foolhardy to label TOR, an unreleased game with risky content, a WoW challenger. WoW owns ~3/5 of the MMO market; if LucasArts even wants to get close to that percentage, they're going to have to market the hell out of TOR to WoW players, which is quite the opposite of what they're doing.
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Old 08-07-2009, 02:25 PM   #36
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However, I am suspicious that there may very well be a WOSC in production. How do I know this? It's just all part of my collection of conspiracy theories about the universe. A World of Starcraft game would easily slap SW:OT into the ground like the dirty little monkey it is.
That's pretty unlikely, Blizzard's already working on a second MMO and the only things they have confirmed about it are 1) It's in a sci-fi setting and 2) It's a new intellectual property.


Let's kill ourselves.
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Old 08-07-2009, 09:37 PM   #37
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Didn't LucasArts make Force Unleashed in-house? I know they fired most of the employees just before the game was releashed, which they couldn't do if they had another company make it.


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Old 08-08-2009, 02:34 PM   #38
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They did make TFU but can we call that a good game? it feels like a arcade game that looks pretty and isn't made by sega.

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Old 08-09-2009, 12:36 AM   #39
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Ugh... read the whole thread...

So far it seems more like a Single Player RPG with online and Co-Op play. I really hate how people tend to generalize the MMO players as being the types that are more concerned with grinding levels than enjoying the story with friends. Some of us spend a great deal of time getting involved in the story. The problem is that in many cases the story is so bloody bland that you don't WANT to bother with it. Or they have the wall of text to read which gets old REALLY old. With this being fully voiced, you CAN get into it. In SWG, many of us made our own story. I would venture to say that more pure roleplayers play MMO's than SPRPG's. There's just so much more you can do in a persistent world.

naming... well some people are not very creative when it comes to names. But you know every MMO I've played allows you to turn off player names.

Monthly fee... Well if Bioware is accurate about the amount of content they will provide, How much would you pay for 8 games, with hundreds of hours of content? At average new game prices, $60 x 8 = $480. That would be the game plus two years of $15 monthly fees.
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But I don't buy games new. I only buy the games in the bargain bin
Well to be blunt. You get whatever those of us who DO spend money on new games want.

Not liking Bioware... Some people juggle geese....

TOR ruining the sequel: No, Obsidian did that by making Revan a god. Then sending him to "The Unknown Regions" to fight the True Sith.

The gameplay footage they have shown looks pretty good. But nobody can really say how good of a game it is as of yet. I know I haven't played it and unless you're a Bioware dev, neither have you. We can speculate on how good of a game it might be, but nobody has enough info to really say one way or another.


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Last edited by Tommycat; 08-09-2009 at 12:53 AM.
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Old 08-09-2009, 12:53 AM   #40
jrrtoken
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Monthly fee... Well if Bioware is accurate about the amount of content they will provide, How much would you pay for 8 games, with hundreds of hours of content? At average new game prices, $60 x 8 = $480. That would be the game plus two years of $15 monthly fees.
I can the reasoning behind this, but as of now, we've seen five, six planets worth of content? Not to say that this is the final amount of content, but given that we've been barely shown anything in terms of overall gameplay, I would definitely not cement TOR as some massive gala of gameplay.

Oh, and quantity =/= quality.
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Not liking Bioware... Some people juggle geese....
Some people also pay good money for manure, too. Doesn't matter how much you masquerade it; s*** will be s***.
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