lfnetwork.com mark read register faq members calendar

Thread: SMI:SE #1 on Steam revenue charts
Thread Tools Display Modes
Post a new thread. Add a reply to this thread. Indicate all threads in this forum as read. Subscribe to this forum. RSS feed: this forum RSS feed: all forums
Old 07-21-2009, 05:03 PM   #1
Monkey Mania
 
Monkey Mania's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Right behind you
Posts: 771
SMI:SE #1 on Steam revenue charts


http://www.joystiq.com/2009/07/20/se...tart-on-steam/
Quote:
The popularity of one Mr. Threepwood and his pirating ways remain strong, as sister site Big Download reports the The Secret of Monkey Island: Special Edition remake has managed to be the top seller (based on revenue) on Steam last week. Guybrush and his gallivanting managed to best the likes of recently released Street Fighter IV, as well as Steam favorite Left 4 Dead.

Steam isn't the only platform the game has been a success on, though. After debuting on Xbox 360 last week, the game has managed to brighten the lives of at least 38,693 individuals (based on game leaderboard data at the time of this post). So, how about that LeChuck's Revenge remake, eh LucasArts?

Top-selling titles on Steam (week ending July 18):

1. The Secret of Monkey Island - LucasArts
2. Left 4 Dead - Valve
3. Aion Collector's Edition - NCsoft
4. ArmA 2 - Bohemia Interactive
5. Street Fighter IV - Capcom
6. Counter-Strike: Source - Valve
7. Dawn of Discovery - Ubisoft
8. Brothers In Arms Pack - Gearbox Software/Ubisoft
9. GRID - Codemasters
10. Team Fortress 2 - Valve
Monkey Mania is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 07-21-2009, 05:18 PM   #2
LordTrilobite
Junior Member
 
LordTrilobite's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Holland
Posts: 497
Seeing how the MI Special Edition turned out, I actually hope they don't make a special edition for LeChuck's Revenge and just release the original version on Steam.

Don't get me wrong, I like the MI Special Edition, but it's just not as good as the original. Some things are better left unchanged.

LordTrilobite is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 07-21-2009, 05:22 PM   #3
purple_tentacle_
Junior Member
 
purple_tentacle_'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: California, United States
Posts: 374
Quote:
Originally Posted by LordTrilobite View Post
Seeing how the MI Special Edition turned out, I actually hope they don't make a special edition for LeChuck's Revenge and just release the original version on Steam.

Don't get me wrong, I like the MI Special Edition, but it's just not as good as the original. Some things are better left unchanged.
I totaly agree. I havnt played it but they just wont get anything better than the originals. Even remaking the Original Game wont be anybetter. Just leave things the way they were found. I am fine playing the original. I acctually like the old graphics.


http://www.lucasforums.com/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=162626&dateline=12954  72528
"The Simple truth is that we've
lost control of our own borders,
and no nation can do that and survive"
-Ronald Reagan
purple_tentacle_ is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 07-21-2009, 05:24 PM   #4
SyntheticGerbil
Pasta Master
 
SyntheticGerbil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Underwater
Posts: 2,242
In a way, this can be a good omen if LucasArts sees that maybe they need to ramp up their production values for further remakes.

That also depends if they are aware if anyone was unsatisfied with the sloppiness in the first place

Maybe they can just do more rereleases with just rescanned artwork? I would at least like to get away with new voices for MI2. Maybe they can not make it so campy this time around. It would just seem wrong with how scary MI2 is. I can only hope!
SyntheticGerbil is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 07-21-2009, 07:05 PM   #5
Monkey Mania
 
Monkey Mania's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Right behind you
Posts: 771
The Special Edition is hackable, therefore you could mod it to the way you prefer. If LucasArts does a SE MI2, you'd get recorded voices and updated music.
Monkey Mania is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 07-21-2009, 07:35 PM   #6
SyntheticGerbil
Pasta Master
 
SyntheticGerbil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Underwater
Posts: 2,242
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monkey Mania View Post
The Special Edition is hackable, therefore you could mod it to the way you prefer. If LucasArts does a SE MI2, you'd get recorded voices and updated music.
Yeah that's what would really like, but a part of me also really doesn't want that game to be messed up.

I'd rather have the voices than not though.
SyntheticGerbil is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 07-21-2009, 08:13 PM   #7
Zak McKracken
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by LordTrilobite View Post
Seeing how the MI Special Edition turned out, I actually hope they don't make a special edition for LeChuck's Revenge and just release the original version on Steam.

Don't get me wrong, I like the MI Special Edition, but it's just not as good as the original. Some things are better left unchanged.
I agree. I've been thinking about this since last week and I gotta say if future SE's turn out like this did I'd rather just forget it. It's crucial for Monkey Island 2, Maniac Mansion, Zak, Last Crusade, Loom etc that they both respect and understand the originals. It's crucial that they understand the Tone, Style and Spirit of these games and if at all possible bring in the original design team to consult at the early stages. I know that Ron Gilbert, David Fox, Brian Moriarty and Steve Purcell would love to do it.

Don't get me wrong I respect the effort of the SE and they took a huge risk in doing it but there is no heart or soul in this game that the original had in spades.

I love Monkey 2 too much to see cartoony art and campy over the top voices and unneeded injected humour dumped on top. I can only imagine Largo sounding effeminate because he wears a bra or more of that goofy narrator. Monkey 2 has a dark atmosphere and if they don't understand the theme or any of the other games for that matter they should just walk away right now and re-release the originals.
Zak McKracken is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 07-21-2009, 08:49 PM   #8
ThunderPeel2001
Lovebucket
 
ThunderPeel2001's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: London, UK
Posts: 1,768
I disagree! Give us an MI2:SE... but give use the original artwork!




ThunderPeel2001 is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 07-21-2009, 09:36 PM   #9
Jeff
Rating: Awesome
 
Jeff's Avatar
 
Status: Administrator
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Chicago, IL, USA
Posts: 8,431
Current Game: SWTOR
Imperialist Meatbags Guild Officer The Walking Carpets Guild Officer Notable contributor LFN Staff Member 
Yeah, using that original art, with voices and new music and a Guybrush sprite like the updated one made in that above shot would be great for a MI2 SE. I can see why some people aren't liking SoMI SE now that it's out so hopefully they do a good job on the next one which they almost will undoubtedly do.


Follow me on Twitter
Follow StarWarsMMO.net on Twitter | Like us on Facebook
Jeff is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 07-21-2009, 10:03 PM   #10
Zak McKracken
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThunderPeel2001 View Post
I disagree! Give us an MI2:SE... but give use the original artwork!
That's definitely the right direction they need to go. Those pictures are beautiful. You think there is any way that we can get the message to LucasArts early enough or hope that are listening to all the feedback not just the 90% reviews at Metacritic. I'd love to send a letter or email voicing some of my concerns while also praising the stuff i liked.

Like I said in another thread. I give the effort an 80%. I respect the initiative and the risk but they really need to be more faithful to the original and not try to inject any unnecessary stuff. I have faith that if they did it right and put more care into this it could turn out to be a pretty good thing. Since it has been selling well I'd be calling Ron Gilbert or even Steve Purcell right now and ask them to be more involved this time around.

I do want further SE's, just done right.

Last edited by Zak McKracken; 07-22-2009 at 01:18 AM.
Zak McKracken is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 07-22-2009, 12:19 AM   #11
SyntheticGerbil
Pasta Master
 
SyntheticGerbil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Underwater
Posts: 2,242
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zak McKracken View Post
I know that Ron Gilbert, David Fox, Brian Moriarty and Steve Purcell would love to do it.
Really? Do you have any quotes for this? I know Ron Gilbert definitely could because he came and did some consulting for ToMI, which was a great idea I think. Dave Grossman did say he had to do some legal wrangling to have Ron Gilbert consult in that Eurogamer interview, but didn't go into why.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zak McKracken View Post
I can only imagine Largo sounding effeminate because he wears a bra or more of that goofy narrator.
Yikes, I really hope not! That's one surefire way to run a joke into the ground.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zak McKracken View Post
That's definitely the right direction they need to go. Those pictures are beautiful. You think there is any that we can get the message to LucasArts early enough or hope that are listening to all the feedback not just the 90% reviews at metacrirc. I'd love to send a letter or email voicing some of my concerns while also praising the stuff i liked.
Yes this worries me too. Metacritic is not a measure of success, but it seems to be more of an indicator of profitability. I would hate for this team to get Sonic Team syndrome, who releases whatever untested badly developed **** they feel like without a care in the world because it will still sell very well.
SyntheticGerbil is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 07-22-2009, 06:55 AM   #12
LordTrilobite
Junior Member
 
LordTrilobite's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Holland
Posts: 497
New music in MI2 isn't really needed, it's already fantastic. So on account of that there's no real need to make an SE. Same goes for the backgrounds, they may be a bit dated and low res, but they still look beautiful. The one thing that obviously everyone wants, is voices, and higher res characters wouldn't hurt either.
But I think that if LucasArts is going to make a MI2 SE, they will probably give it a makeover like MISE got, maybe not the same style, but different from the original anyway. Which is probably what most fans fear for.

If a special edtion for MI2 got made, I'd most likely buy it. But I bet the original will still be better. I feel that in this case one can better leave, what is pretty much perfect by the standards of those days, untouched. And remember the game exactly as it was. Even if that means we'll never hear voices in MI2, I think that's a small sacrifice to make.

LordTrilobite is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 07-22-2009, 08:03 AM   #13
Apple24
Rookie
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: VIC, Australia
Posts: 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by LordTrilobite View Post
Seeing how the MI Special Edition turned out, I actually hope they don't make a special edition for LeChuck's Revenge and just release the original version on Steam.

Don't get me wrong, I like the MI Special Edition, but it's just not as good as the original. Some things are better left unchanged.
Quote:
Originally Posted by purple_tentacle_ View Post
I totaly agree. I havnt played it but they just wont get anything better than the originals. Even remaking the Original Game wont be anybetter. Just leave things the way they were found. I am fine playing the original. I acctually like the old graphics.
I don't get this; it's not like by remaking the game they get rid of the old one. Hell, you can even choose to play the original, unenhanced version of Monkey Island in the Special Edition if you like.
If you don't like the remakes, don't play them. But please don't go around saying that you'd prefer LucasArts not to make a special edition, I honestly don't understand what difference it would make to you.
Apple24 is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 07-22-2009, 08:45 AM   #14
spiralout
Rookie
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by LordTrilobite View Post
New music in MI2 isn't really needed, it's already fantastic. So on account of that there's no real need to make an SE. Same goes for the backgrounds, they may be a bit dated and low res, but they still look beautiful. The one thing that obviously everyone wants, is voices, and higher res characters wouldn't hurt either.
But I think that if LucasArts is going to make a MI2 SE, they will probably give it a makeover like MISE got, maybe not the same style, but different from the original anyway. Which is probably what most fans fear for.

If a special edtion for MI2 got made, I'd most likely buy it. But I bet the original will still be better. I feel that in this case one can better leave, what is pretty much perfect by the standards of those days, untouched. And remember the game exactly as it was. Even if that means we'll never hear voices in MI2, I think that's a small sacrifice to make.
You don't think the music would sound better with real instruments rather than MIDI?
spiralout is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 07-22-2009, 10:55 AM   #15
SyntheticGerbil
Pasta Master
 
SyntheticGerbil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Underwater
Posts: 2,242
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple24 View Post
But please don't go around saying that you'd prefer LucasArts not to make a special edition, I honestly don't understand what difference it would make to you.
Why not? Fans can state a preference if they want.

I think what you are missing here is that people want a *well done* Special Edition or nothing at all. What the current Special Edition offers is average to mediocre. People don't have to settle or feign satisfaction if they don't want to.

Quote:
Originally Posted by spiralout View Post
You don't think the music would sound better with real instruments rather than MIDI?
I think they would sound better with real instruments, but it will be hard to not screw up, considering how wonderful iMuse works on MI2. It does not work the same as MI1. There's a transitional blend between songs from one location to another all over the game. There's also a lot of instance music. This is not as easy to do with prerecorded stuff unless you were to record every transition and also work with layering music at many points. It would probably require additional programming to support live music in this instance, but I'm no expert.

So I think everyone would love for this to be done right, which is the hard way. But I'm betting if put up the task, the Special Edition Team would just scrap all the transitions and throw prerecorded tracks over everything given their apparent sloppiness.

Last edited by SyntheticGerbil; 07-22-2009 at 11:00 AM.
SyntheticGerbil is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 07-22-2009, 12:27 PM   #16
don_quixote
Rookie
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by SyntheticGerbil View Post
Why not? Fans can state a preference if they want.

I think what you are missing here is that people want a *well done* Special Edition or nothing at all. What the current Special Edition offers is average to mediocre. People don't have to settle or feign satisfaction if they don't want to.
I think there's no way to please everyone no matter what they do because someone always imagines something differently. I've heard complaining about the voice work in new MI:SE, for example, which I just don't understand considering how superbly done it is (I could have done without the narrator I suppose). The new sprites are not what I would have gone with, but we also have an opportunity to hack them without LA cease and desist letters.

I'd buy the new MI2:SE in a second, and I'm sure so would many other people. You do not need to buy it, and you can enjoy the old version just as you always have. However, I will be able play the new one with voices which bring so much more to the game, and also share it with my niece which sure is nice.
don_quixote is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 07-22-2009, 12:39 PM   #17
Sven_Q45
Forumite
 
Sven_Q45's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: near Stuttgart
Posts: 723
Quote:
Originally Posted by LordTrilobite View Post
Don't get me wrong, I like the MI Special Edition, but it's just not as good as the original. Some things are better left unchanged.
Thatīs what I said in the "further Special Editions" thread lattely. Itīs good. The atmosphere and the voices are a dream! But actually I hate it to try to make a good thing better.
Sven_Q45 is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 07-22-2009, 12:58 PM   #18
Zak McKracken
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by don_quixote View Post
I think there's no way to please everyone no matter what they do because someone always imagines something differently. I've heard complaining about the voice work in new MI:SE, for example, which I just don't understand considering how superbly done it is (I could have done without the narrator I suppose). The new sprites are not what I would have gone with, but we also have an opportunity to hack them without LA cease and desist letters.

I'd buy the new MI2:SE in a second, and I'm sure so would many other people. You do not need to buy it, and you can enjoy the old version just as you always have. However, I will be able play the new one with voices which bring so much more to the game, and also share it with my niece which sure is nice.
Like I've said before I gave the whole effort an 80%. I'm not a person whose expectations can never be pleased. I as well as others just want a good product and the best work put in to it. And I can honestly say this was not that. I mean they gave it a good try and I respect the initiative and risk to do this but this was not the best they can do and that's all I want and expect is their best.

I think Thunderpeel said in another thread the whole thing felt like it was a re-interpretation rather then 100% faithful rendition that they promised in interviews. And that’s what it felt like. And if that's what they want to do and there's a market for it, fine but just let me know beforehand and I won't get it.

These SE's are a perfect way to introduce these games to newer audiences and I don't think it would be too hard to re-touch up these games in the original style with newer graphics, voice, music etc. You just have to put the time and effort into it and respect the original.


One last quick note on the voices. I know we all have different ideas on what is good and everything but can you look me in the eye and say the whole thing was superb or that you just liked that it had voices. Because for the most part the voice direction is over the top and it felt like they injected humour into it to make it funnier instead of letting the game stand on it's own. I mean even Guybrush and LeChuck felt off at times
Zak McKracken is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 07-22-2009, 01:07 PM   #19
Monkey Mania
 
Monkey Mania's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Right behind you
Posts: 771
The right way would be to scrap the whole new code on top of old code thing and make the game from scratch. That way you can add more animation, fix old bugs, create new camera angles(in a 2d way), etc.

You won't get the real-time comparison, but that was more like a gimmick.
Monkey Mania is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 07-22-2009, 01:14 PM   #20
SyntheticGerbil
Pasta Master
 
SyntheticGerbil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Underwater
Posts: 2,242
Quote:
Originally Posted by don_quixote View Post
I think there's no way to please everyone no matter what they do because someone always imagines something differently.
Well that's the easy way out. Of course there is no one who can please everyone with anything they could possibly do in their whole entire lives. Them's the breaks, so why state it?

The team can aim to please more people, including old fans. It's not like it's an impossible task and it's certainly not an "all or nothing" situation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zak McKracken View Post
I think Thunderpeel said in another thread the whole thing felt like it was a re-interpretation rather then 100% faithful rendition that they promised in interviews. And that’s what it felt like. And if that's what they want to do and there's a market for it, fine but just let me know beforehand and I won't get it.
Zak McKracken (and Thunderpeel) says it best.
SyntheticGerbil is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 07-22-2009, 01:43 PM   #21
Zak McKracken
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by SyntheticGerbil View Post
Really? Do you have any quotes for this? I know Ron Gilbert definitely could because he came and did some consulting for ToMI, which was a great idea I think. Dave Grossman did say he had to do some legal wrangling to have Ron Gilbert consult in that Eurogamer interview, but didn't go into why..
In regards to Brian and Steve it's just something I heard through the grapevine they they both both would very open to the idea. But I don't have a link though. I emailed David Fox right after the announcement of the SE and to my surprise he emailed me back a day later. He just said he would love the idea of coming back and doing it and in retrospect he wished he had removed the mazes and the cash problem. He also loved my idea of the aliens abducting people other then Zak and Annie such as Lou when you use the blue crystal which I thought was really cool and made my day.


Quote:
Yes this worries me too. Metacritic is not a measure of success, but it seems to be more of an indicator of profitability. I would hate for this team to get Sonic Team syndrome, who releases whatever untested badly developed **** they feel like without a care in the world because it will still sell very well.
Which is why I'm hoping there taking everything into account and not just the positive. I'd even go in person If I lived near LA or San Diego but alas.
Zak McKracken is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 07-22-2009, 02:39 PM   #22
don_quixote
Rookie
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by SyntheticGerbil View Post
Well that's the easy way out. Of course there is no one who can please everyone with anything they could possibly do in their whole entire lives. Them's the breaks, so why state it?

The team can aim to please more people, including old fans. It's not like it's an impossible task and it's certainly not an "all or nothing" situation.
Sure, it's not an "all or nothing" situation. But, it IS an impossible task to please all people, and last I checked many people are pleased. You are not. Many, including old fans such as myself, are. You've been quite vocal about your dissatisfaction and how you're not the only fan who's displeased. True, but so what?

$10 was a steal for just the voices - everything else was a nice bonus, which has also introduced MI to people who would have never given the original a glance.

This is not to say that I am 100% pleased, but if there were no improvements between MI:SE and MI2:SE, I'd still buy the sequel gladly.

MI and MI2 are graphically sparse games which consist of thick globs of pixels. It worked back then because that was the standard resolution. But I am far too much of a realist to put on those rose coloured glasses and be charmed by those original pixelly sprites and backgrounds. They were nice for the times, but are hopelessly dated. MI:SE is a much needed makeover. I share the general dislike of how Guybrush looks, but I don't think the few pixels of the original were very good either. Further, MI:SE so far appears to be relatively easy to modify, which is also fantastic and gives everyone an option to modify the world according to how they think it works.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Zak McKracken
One last quick note on the voices. I know we all have different ideas on what is good and everything but can you look me in the eye and say the whole thing was superb or that you just liked that it had voices. Because for the most part the voice direction is over the top and it felt like they injected humour into it to make it funnier instead of letting the game stand on it's own. I mean even Guybrush and LeChuck felt off at times
Yes, there are times when the voice I hear isn't how I would have said it, but that's much like finding out that the character in a movie adopted from a book you've read doesn't sound and look exactly how you've pictured him. It's happened to me with LA games before and I don't think it's a valid complaint with MI:SE.
don_quixote is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 07-22-2009, 02:56 PM   #23
SyntheticGerbil
Pasta Master
 
SyntheticGerbil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Underwater
Posts: 2,242
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zak McKracken View Post
In regards to Brian and Steve it's just something I heard through the grapevine they they both both would very open to the idea. But I don't have a link though. I emailed David Fox right after the announcement of the SE and to my surprise he emailed me back a day later. He just said he would love the idea of coming back and doing it and in retrospect he wished he had removed the mazes and the cash problem. He also loved my idea of the aliens abducting people other then Zak and Annie such as Lou when you use the blue crystal which I thought was really cool and made my day.
Ah that's really cool! Especially the Zak part. Yeah those mazes were kind of annoying, as if they were just put there to pad out the game. It was already pretty long.

Quote:
Originally Posted by don_quixote View Post
Sure, it's not an "all or nothing" situation. But, it IS an impossible task to please all people, and last I checked many people are pleased. You are not. Many, including old fans such as myself, are. You've been quite vocal about your dissatisfaction and how you're not the only fan who's displeased. True, but so what?
So what are you trying to say here? I'm the only fan who's displeased?

And I guess you don't understand how useless it is to say, "well no one is going to be satisfied no matter what we do." Pay more attention to what I said instead of saying, "So what?" If everyone used that excuse about any kind of work they did then the world would be full of people doing mediocre jobs just because of a base attitude. So it goes without saying.

Quote:
Originally Posted by don_quixote View Post
This is not to say that I am 100% pleased, but if there were no improvements between MI:SE and MI2:SE, I'd still buy the sequel gladly.
And the cat's out of the bag. You are fine with mediocrity, others are not. It's a personal thing to settle.

Quote:
Originally Posted by don_quixote View Post
MI and MI2 are graphically sparse games which consist of thick globs of pixels. It worked back then because that was the standard resolution. But I am far too much of a realist to put on those rose coloured glasses and be charmed by those original pixelly sprites and backgrounds.
So everyone who doesn't agree with you is not a realist? The original games are sparse? Do you know a thing about drawing and composition? Scroll up a little bit to Thunderpeel's post and look at the original scanned paintings and tell me those are sparse.

I could just as easily be as pompous as you are acting and say you only like the Special Edition because you have to justify your $10 spent. Don't presume you know why people feel a certain way and proclaim yourself a realist, that's not nice. Is everyone else then living in some kind of sub reality, then?

You also seem to imply that everyone who doesn't like the new art style and sees mistakes only plays games made before 1995. It's really not that easy.

Last edited by SyntheticGerbil; 07-22-2009 at 03:15 PM.
SyntheticGerbil is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 07-22-2009, 03:13 PM   #24
Monkey Mania
 
Monkey Mania's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Right behind you
Posts: 771
No matter what LucasArts does or does not do to the game, someone WILL NOT be satisfied.
Monkey Mania is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 07-22-2009, 03:17 PM   #25
Zak McKracken
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by don_quixote View Post
Yes, there are times when the voice I hear isn't how I would have said it, but that's much like finding out that the character in a movie adopted from a book you've read doesn't sound and look exactly how you've pictured him. It's happened to me with LA games before and I don't think it's a valid complaint with MI:SE.
I'm not talking about the voices not matching up to my expectations. Honestly, if we were going to go there, I still hate Guybrush's voice but I've accepted it and adjusted. I'm talking about the voice direction itself for the actors. Even actors like Sean Penn, Daniel Day Lewis, Glenn Close, Meryl Streep etc can seem like a bad actor or over the top given the wrong direction. It was a choice from the design team or the voice director to have some of the voices over the top or hammy. Cobb, Otis, Estevan, the Narrator and others were exaggerated and over the top. Like I said before even Guybrush and LeChuck were off at some point. And this is what I object to. To quote Thunderpeel again it seemed like they just injected humour in the voices and characterization to make it even funnier instead of letting the game stand on it's own. For example, nowadays, most people hate laugh tracks in sitcoms because they are told when to laugh instead of being able to figure it out for themselves and enjoy the show as is. The voice direction was a choice and I thought it could have been better and extremely toned down

Last edited by Zak McKracken; 07-22-2009 at 03:31 PM.
Zak McKracken is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 07-22-2009, 03:29 PM   #26
Guy.brush
Rookie
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Deep in the Caribbean
Posts: 215
You complain about over the top voice acting? What about TOMI? What about the Hrrharrhrrharrhrr of LeChuck? If MI:SE voice acting is over the top, i dunno what TOMI's is.
Guy.brush is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 07-22-2009, 03:35 PM   #27
Zak McKracken
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guy.brush View Post
You complain about over the top voice acting? What about TOMI? What about the Hrrharrhrrharrhrr of LeChuck? If MI:SE voice acting is over the top, i dunno what TOMI's is.

I haven't played TOMI yet so I can't say. And I'd rather judge it myself then read all the reviews, praise/criticism. So I've deliberately kept myself in the dark. But I am looking forward to checking it out.
Zak McKracken is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 07-22-2009, 03:53 PM   #28
don_quixote
Rookie
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by SyntheticGerbil View Post
So what are you trying to say here? I'm the only fan who's displeased?
No, you're not the only fan who's displeased, but just as you don't see any point to the fact that most people are pleased, I don't see the point to note that some people are not. That is not a surprise.


Quote:
Originally Posted by SyntheticGerbil View Post
And I guess you don't understand how useless it is to say, "well no one is going to be satisfied no matter what we do." Pay more attention to what I said instead of saying, "So what?" If everyone used that excuse about any kind of work they did then the world would be full of people doing mediocre jobs just because of a base attitude. So it goes without saying.
MI:SE is not your vision of how the game should have been and you've been clear on that. The game has flaws, no doubt, but they are a game breaker for you. They are not for everyone, since MI was not a perfect game when it came out, and especially not in its original iteration.


Quote:
Originally Posted by SyntheticGerbil View Post
And the cat's out of the bag. You are fine with mediocrity, others are not. It's a personal thing to settle.
I enjoyed the game, you didn't. You are free to play the much superior original MI (make sure to play it in EGA for that extra superb atmosphere and authenticity). Me, I'll take the inferior MI:SE.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SyntheticGerbil View Post
So everyone who doesn't agree with you is not a realist? The original games are sparse? Do you know a thing about drawing and composition? Scroll up a little bit to Thunderpeel's post and look at the original scanned paintings and tell me those are sparse.
The original scanned paintings ARE NOT what ended up in the game. Those are gorgeous scans (which may or may not be used in MI2:SE if it gets made), but they looked NOTHING LIKE it once converted to 320x200. They ARE sparse because the technology of the day was extremely limited. Give it to kids used to modern games and see what the reactions of most of them are. Heck, _I_ have a hard time getting used to the graphics, and I was around for the original.


Quote:
Originally Posted by SyntheticGerbil View Post
I could just as easily be as pompous as you are acting and say you only like the Special Edition because you have to justify your $10 spent. Don't presume you know why people feel a certain way and proclaim yourself a realist, that's not nice. Is everyone else then living in some kind of sub reality, then?
Nothing I said was pompous; I do think it strains reality to suggest that the graphics as they currently are in MI2 are something worth celebrating in this day and age. Great for 1991? Sure.


Quote:
Originally Posted by SyntheticGerbil View Post
You also seem to imply that everyone who doesn't like the new art style and sees mistakes only plays games made before 1995. It's really not that easy.
That is an assumption without cause. My point was that the generations who originally played the 80s and 90s games will always have a special place in their hearts for them, but the later generations will mostly not accept big fat pixels. There is a certain amount of nostalgia at play here.
don_quixote is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 07-22-2009, 03:56 PM   #29
SyntheticGerbil
Pasta Master
 
SyntheticGerbil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Underwater
Posts: 2,242
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monkey Mania View Post
No matter what LucasArts does or does not do to the game, someone WILL NOT be satisfied.
Yeah but like I said, that reasoning doesn't help either way. Why say it?

Watch here, if I take your statement and add some ellipses at the end, and finish it myself this way:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monkey Mania View Post
No matter what LucasArts does or does not do to the game, someone WILL NOT be satisfied...
"...so the team should still do the best damn job they can do!"

That doesn't really fit. The reasoning that no one will be satisfied with what you do is already negative so it makes more sense within context to finish your sentence negative like this:

"...so the team should just not even bother worrying about it."

That is not okay and that reasoning incurs such sentiment.

I'm not trying to just make a stink for the sake of it, but relying on the argument that not everyon'es going to be satisfied is really unproductive, fails to address any issues whatsoever, and does not help conversation flow. Businesses have traditionally thrived on trying to satisfy as many customers as possible. So why do some of you keep repeating it like mantra?

I'm less bothered by the voices than others because I usually don't expect great voice acting in games anyways. I've been conditioned with average voice acting over the past decade or so that I don't see too much of a problem with MI:SE voice acting outside of "Love" being said out loud.

Granted LucasArts is probably the company that has been the most successful at top notch voice acting so far, the apex being Grim Fandango, so it does come with some expectations by many fans.

Quote:
Originally Posted by don_quixote View Post
The original scanned paintings ARE NOT what ended up in the game. Those are gorgeous scans (which may or may not be used in MI2:SE if it gets made), but they looked NOTHING LIKE it once converted to 320x200.
"NOTHING LIKE," huh? Forget rose colored glasses, I think you just plain need glasses. Either that or you could try toning down your hyperbole if you are planning to add anything to the topic at hand.

Quote:
Originally Posted by don_quixote View Post
Nothing I said was pompous
If you say so, Mr. "Realist." Be sure to inform us in every thread what's real from now on, though.

Last edited by SyntheticGerbil; 07-22-2009 at 04:09 PM.
SyntheticGerbil is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 07-22-2009, 04:39 PM   #30
don_quixote
Rookie
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by SyntheticGerbil View Post
"NOTHING LIKE," huh? Forget rose colored glasses, I think you just plain need glasses. Either that or you could try toning down your hyperbole if you are planning to add anything to the topic at hand.
Excuse the NOTHING LIKE, and replace it as a PALE SHADOW. The artwork looks like someone scanned the originals and then converted it to a very low resolution and reduced it by by thousands of colours. Which is exactly what they did, of course.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SyntheticGerbil View Post
If you say so, Mr. "Realist." Be sure to inform us in every thread what's real from now on, though.
Sorry, I disagree that MI2 as it currently is (or original MI1) is something that shouldn't be missed with if it turns out like MI:SE. I think it strains credulity to suggest MI2 looks good as it is. It looks very, very, dated, which it is, of course.


PS: Your sarcasm and hostility doesn't do much for your case.

Last edited by don_quixote; 07-22-2009 at 04:46 PM.
don_quixote is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 07-22-2009, 05:09 PM   #31
SyntheticGerbil
Pasta Master
 
SyntheticGerbil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Underwater
Posts: 2,242
Quote:
Originally Posted by don_quixote View Post
Excuse the NOTHING LIKE, and replace it as a PALE SHADOW. The artwork looks like someone scanned the originals and then converted it to a very low resolution and reduced it by by thousands of colours. Which is exactly what they did, of course.
Thousands of colors? Remember what I said about hyperbole? I'm sure they probably couldn't even scan thousands of colors back then anyways with the hardware they were using. Those backgrounds are still very true to the originals. Don't be stubborn for the sake of it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by don_quixote View Post
PS: Your sarcasm and hostility doesn't do much for your case.
Besides that I've already stated most of my points elsewhere and a lot of the proof is in the screenshots posted in other threads with red arrows drawn all over them, I actually feel I did pretty good job without resorting to base name calling and flaming considering all the incendiary remarks you have already made towards me and personally singling me out already. Did you just sign up here just to argue with me and to tell me to keep my mouth shut?

Quote:
Originally Posted by don_quixote View Post
No, you're not the only fan who's displeased, but just as you don't see any point to the fact that most people are pleased, I don't see the point to note that some people are not. That is not a surprise.
Quote:
Originally Posted by don_quixote View Post
You are free to play the much superior original MI (make sure to play it in EGA for that extra superb atmosphere and authenticity). Me, I'll take the inferior MI:SE.
Sarcasm, you say?

Don't forget that everyone one of us at Mojo and the Lucasforums who have been interested in Monkey Island for years was looking forward to playing a good remake with a grand excitement that diminished as more and more screenshots, videos and information was released. People were not like, "BAH HUMBUG, A REMAKE" right off the bat. There is some disappointment involved here that can't be ignored. For some more than others. Either way, none of that excuses the cut out garbage on their backgrounds, unhidden layers, and somewhat buggy gameplay.

Many here seem to be under the idea that anyone who is upset doesn't want any game LucasArts ever made to be remade. That is not true, they just needed to do an overall good job with good craftsmanship and no one will complain. They could certainly start by being truer to the original and not taking the liberty to reinterpret the style and tone themselves. Certainly they don't have to merge it closer to CMI as they spoke of in the making of video and wrote for the descriptions of their concept work on the Facebook page.

If this remake truly exists to bring in new fans only, then why did they go into so much into how they are going to please old fans? Why pay Ron Gilbert to come into your making of video? I think many underestimate the amount of Monkey Island fans that exist compared to new players.

Last edited by SyntheticGerbil; 07-22-2009 at 05:18 PM.
SyntheticGerbil is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 07-22-2009, 05:41 PM   #32
don_quixote
Rookie
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by SyntheticGerbil View Post
Thousands of colors? Remember what I said about hyperbole. I'm sure they could even scan thousands of colors back then anyways. Those backgrounds are still very true to the originals. Don't be stubborn.
I'm sure they could, but the final, completed game was VGA, in 256 colours and a resolution of 320x200. Yes, it is entirely possible that the original scans contain thousands of discernible colours. You can make Hercules style graphics look (somewhat) true to the original, but it's a stretch to really think that's good enough. I do think your love of the original game is obvious, and it's perhaps blinding you to just how dated it looks.


Quote:
Originally Posted by SyntheticGerbil View Post
Besides that I've already stated most of my points elsewhere and a lot of the proof is in the screenshots posted in other threads with red arrows drawn all over them, actually feel I did pretty good without resorting to base name calling and flaming considering all the incendiary remarks you have already made. Did you just sign up here to argue and to tell me to keep my mouth shut?
You are usually more combative? What incendiary remarks appear in my OP, apart from disagreeing with you?


Quote:
Originally Posted by SyntheticGerbil View Post
Sarcasm, you say?

Don't forget that everyone one of us was looking forward to playing a good remake with a grand excitement that diminished as more and more screenshots, videos and information was released. People were not like, "BAH HUMBUG, A REMAKE" right off the bat. There is some disappointment involved here that can't be ignored. For some more than others.

A lot of you here seem to be under the idea that no one wants any game LucasArts did to be remade ever. That is not true, they just need to do an overall good job with good craftsmanship and no one will complain. They could certainly start by being true to the original and not taking the liberty to reinterpret the style and tone themselves.
You've noted that you do not want a remake if it is like MI:SE. That indicates a satisfaction with what is, really, far less than what the new version offers. The style and tone has to be reinterpreted because the original is graphically ambiguous by necessity.

Now, MI2:SE is a different story as original highly detailed artwork (maybe) exists in entirety and it would indeed make sense to base the artwork off it. Still, it is highly unlikely that the graphics of a potential MI2:SE would be worse than they are in MI2.


Quote:
Originally Posted by SyntheticGerbil View Post
If this remake truly exists to bring in new fans only, then why did they go into so much into how they are going to please old fans? Why pay Ron Gilbert to come into your making of video? I think many underestimate the amount of Monkey Island fans that exist compared to new players.
It, I am sure, aims to please both.
don_quixote is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 07-22-2009, 05:52 PM   #33
Monkey Mania
 
Monkey Mania's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Right behind you
Posts: 771
LucasArts' forum is filled with complaints, I'm sure they will address these problems with MI2SE.
Monkey Mania is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 07-22-2009, 05:58 PM   #34
SyntheticGerbil
Pasta Master
 
SyntheticGerbil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Underwater
Posts: 2,242
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monkey Mania View Post
LucasArts' forum is filled with complaints, I'm sure they will address these problems with MI2SE.
One can only hope if another remake happens.
SyntheticGerbil is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 07-22-2009, 06:13 PM   #35
LordTrilobite
Junior Member
 
LordTrilobite's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Holland
Posts: 497
The thing is, they could have done a better job on SE, and in some views (including mine) should have done better.

I terms of style, some are pleased with it, some aren't. Some mind the extra injected humour in the voices, some don't mind it.
But there are parts in SE that are rather sloppy, like the forest and lots of clipping problems, and the interface isn't as good as the original, aspecially for puzzles that require combining items.

LordTrilobite is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 07-22-2009, 08:10 PM   #36
SyntheticGerbil
Pasta Master
 
SyntheticGerbil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Underwater
Posts: 2,242
Quote:
Originally Posted by don_quixote View Post
You've noted that you do not want a remake if it is like MI:SE. That indicates a satisfaction with what is, really, far less than what the new version offers. The style and tone has to be reinterpreted because the original is graphically ambiguous by necessity.

Now, MI2:SE is a different story as original highly detailed artwork (maybe) exists in entirety and it would indeed make sense to base the artwork off it. Still, it is highly unlikely that the graphics of a potential MI2:SE would be worse than they are in MI2.
I really wish you had not replied to my original post, sat on it for 30 minutes past my last edit and then replied. There were a few things in there I had changed.

Anyway, I don't think any of the graphics in Monkey Island 1 and 2 are that ambiguous as you seem to think. They actually have a very strong atmosphere and tone for games from 1990 and 1991. You can argue all you want against that but I'll never agree and I'm sure plenty of long time fans feel the same. I don't think anything is really up for reinterpretation here. Sloppily copying and pasting tons of graphics in Photoshop for trees, bushes, and leaves certainly isn't a reinterpretation I like for instance. I don't know how familiar you actually are with the promo images for the game or Purcell's work, but you can also use drawings from the Adventurer issues, boxart, and manual for reference.

If you think it's "highly unlikely" to draw worse graphics for a MI2:SE than the original, then I'm afraid there's no hope in talking to you. A bad or lazy artist can screw up anything no matter what resolution you are working in. If they hypothetically keep remaking the games that have not been rereleased on Steam yet in their original versions, this team *will* hit a hump where their new graphics are going to look like ass even in comparison to the old ones with a smoothing filter. I predict a MI2 remake will make this obvious, but for everyone else who is easier to please may feel the same somewhere around the hypothetical Day of the Tentacle remake. At the moment, they have either proved they are not skilled enough for further games or just didn't care enough. Dela Longfish's stuff is good so I don't doubt him, the rest has yet to be spoken for unless I get credits.

You wouldn't have by any chance worked on this game? It's funny you just sort of signed up here to argue with me about the Special Edition only. I like talking about almost all LucasArts games, we don't have center on this. I can also go on and on about Steve Purcell's comic book work if needed.

Last edited by SyntheticGerbil; 07-23-2009 at 04:37 PM.
SyntheticGerbil is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 07-23-2009, 12:52 PM   #37
Nickelstein
Junior Member
 
Nickelstein's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: NYC Harlem
Posts: 272
Current Game: OPF,HL2,Bioshock
Don_quixote don't take SythenticGerbil the wrong way he is just like that...
Nickelstein is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 07-23-2009, 04:15 PM   #38
LordTrilobite
Junior Member
 
LordTrilobite's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Holland
Posts: 497
I completely agree with SythenticGerbil.

LordTrilobite is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 07-23-2009, 04:55 PM   #39
don_quixote
Rookie
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by SyntheticGerbil View Post
Anyway, I don't think any of the graphics in Monkey Island 1 and 2 are that ambiguous as you seem to think. They actually have a very strong atmosphere and tone for games from 1990 and 1991. You can argue all you want against that but I'll never agree and I'm sure plenty of long time fans feel the same.
Hey, I do agree. It looks great for 1990 and 1991. It's very poor for 2009.


Quote:
Originally Posted by SyntheticGerbil View Post
If you think it's "highly unlikely" to draw worse graphics for a MI2:SE than the original, then I'm afraid there's no hope in talking to you. A bad or lazy artist can screw up anything no matter what resolution you are working in.
Sure, but that's certainly not what's likely to happen and the MI:SE graphics are a vast (vast, vast) improvement over MI. Sure, it's possible that the next gen graphics of MI2:SE are going to be worse, but I certainly don't see that from MI:SE.


Quote:
Originally Posted by SyntheticGerbil View Post
If they hypothetically keep remaking the games that have not been rereleased on Steam yet in their original versions, this team *will* hit a hump where their new graphics are going to look like ass even in comparison to the old ones with a smoothing filter. I predict a MI2 remake will make this obvious, but for everyone else who is easier to please may feel the same somewhere around the hypothetical Day of the Tentacle remake. At the moment, they have either proved they are not skilled enough for further games or just didn't care enough. Dela Longfish's stuff is good so I don't doubt him, the rest has yet to be spoken for unless I get credits.
Shall we post MI (with ScummVM smoothing filters) screenshots and MI:SE screenshots to see which of the two have graphics that look like 'ass' in comparison?


Quote:
Originally Posted by SyntheticGerbil View Post
You wouldn't have by any chance worked on this game? It's funny you just sort of signed up here to argue with me about the Special Edition only. I like talking about almost all LucasArts games, we don't have center on this. I can also go on and on about Steve Purcell's comic book work if needed.
No I did not have anything to do with the game.

My sign up here has far more to do with tracking progress of future MI:SE mods, something I'm very happy about.
don_quixote is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 07-23-2009, 07:12 PM   #40
SyntheticGerbil
Pasta Master
 
SyntheticGerbil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Underwater
Posts: 2,242
Quote:
Originally Posted by don_quixote View Post
Shall we post MI (with ScummVM smoothing filters) screenshots and MI:SE screenshots to see which of the two have graphics that look like 'ass' in comparison?
Go for it.

Last edited by SyntheticGerbil; 07-23-2009 at 07:32 PM.
SyntheticGerbil is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Post a new thread. Add a reply to this thread. Indicate all threads in this forum as read. Subscribe to this forum. RSS feed: this forum RSS feed: all forums
Go Back   LucasForums > Network > Mixnmojo.com > Mojo Discussion Forums > General Discussion > SMI:SE #1 on Steam revenue charts

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:41 PM.


LFNetwork, LLC ©2002-2011 - All rights reserved.
Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.