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Old 02-05-2010, 10:52 PM   #41
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George is a ****ing idiot who doesn't listen to reason, and it's probable that they didn't even question him or continue the argument after he said that it was impossible for there to be something that blocked a Lightsaber, they need to drag him away from Lucasfilms/arts and start working together without him.
See, I'm not sure I buy Filoni's comments. Lucas created for the films exactly what Filoni is claiming Lucas said was impossible. I can see Lucas coming up with other arguments for coming up with what they did, but this just doesn't jive.

And be careful what you wish for. Even without Lucas involved you can still end up with things like giant green star wars rabbits.

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I might as well just say the ugly truth: Star Wars is not for adults anymore. Starting with the Phantom Menace, Star Wars started to turn around and start to aim for the teenage group. If you want a good story that's as good as the OT, don't count on George and his band of merry idiots to deliver, but hey, if you want blind action, they can sure deliver that!
Again, saying Star Wars is not targeted at "adults" doesn't hold water, as it is too broad a brush. TCW isn't targeted at adults, but there are tons of Star Wars products that are. TFU, KOR, the many comics and novels are all targeted at older audiences, for example.

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Originally Posted by adamqd
yea I should of put "TCW has jaded my Love for Star Wars As an ongoing Franchise"
Just to make sure you didn't misunderstand, I wasn't trying to attack your position, just using it as a point for further conversation. Hope it didn't come across that way.

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I obviously still Love the EU, OT and PT, but, some of my Favorite stuff has been canceled or retconed to make way for something I dislike, that pisses me off, hence my opinion
That has happened to me too, specifically the Republic comic series. But I'm willing to wait and see how they fit it all in.

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this is getting into a heated discussion.
Isn't it great? It's nice to have some good debates about Star Wars around here again.

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Originally Posted by Astrotoy7
Mandalorians, and the Fetts in general have been so drenched in fanspunk, I'm sick of hearing of them.
I hear ya. Like I said before, back when KOTOR I liked that fact they were hired goons who added anyone and everyone to their ranks. Now people just try to make them into more than they are.

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*watches link vid, falls off chair in glee*
That does make me feel better...

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Old 02-05-2010, 11:35 PM   #42
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Not exactly, Mandos envisioned by Obsidian had more common sense then that.
If they had more common sense than that they wouldn't have done it, but they were on the space lawn in every game of K2 I played.


Let's kill ourselves.
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Old 02-06-2010, 12:24 AM   #43
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....you can still end up with things like giant green star wars rabbits.
whoa... that's some of the creepiest Jar-Jar foreshadowing I've ever seen..

I was in the unusual position the other day of recommending to someone who hadn't watched SW before, what order to watch it in. I went for canon chronology rather than the order it was filmed in.... Halfway into TPM, he said "I dont think I like SW" I shouldve put on the Phantom Edit Damnit I blame Jar Jar.

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Old 02-06-2010, 03:08 AM   #44
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True, you forget Seneca's axiom, 'Those who refuse to accept history are doomed to repeat it'. Let's take your premise that 'Mando;a= Nazi.

When I wrote my article, why do you think I ignored the Nazis? It was because unlike the ones I mentioned, the basic attitude of the German people is what made the Nazis strong, not their politics.

Being a Nazi in 'Nazi Germany' where members of other parties could end up in jail or a concentration camp at a whim was like being a Communist in the Soviet Union, where 'anti-revolutionary' attitudes could have you sent to Siberia to 'count trees'. The only valid party was the one mentioned, and to effect change, you had to be either a hammer or a nail, and everyone knows who wins in that argument. As much as Patton caught flak for it, being a Nazi in Germany or a Communist in the Soviet Union was little different from being a modern Democrat or Republican.

There were atrocities committed by people we label Nazis, but there were atrocities on both side of that war. But only those committed by the losers were ever addressed. Google 'Biscari Sicily Peiper', where the Malmedy Massacre (Which was blamed on the Hitler Jugend Waffen SS Panzer though 33rd Wermacht Panzer was more likely the perpetrators) is compared to the invasion of Sicily where at the POW camp at Biscari American troops 'eased the burden' on the camp by eliminating extra prisoners.

Or for that matter read the book about Otto Skorzeny named Kommando, where the leader of Germany's best special ops team was tried for War Crimes. They failed, because a British Special Ops man nicknamed the White Rabbit demanded to be sworn in, and laid out the operations orders he gave, actually more brutal than Skorzeny had ever ordered. Yet that failure did not deter the vengeful Allied Powers. Skorzeny was held for over a year as they frantically tried to find a charge they could use that would stick. Skorzeny eventually escaped and lived out his remaining days in Spain.

If we condemn the Nazis what about Hap Arnold (The head of the Army Air Corps, now the Air Force) when he gave Carl Spaatz and Curtis Le May their heads in their operations areas? Spaatz suggested bombing for morale purposes only, and among the cities leveled in his own words 'Terror bombing' was Dresden, which under International law was an Open City, a target not to be attacked for any reason.

Le May was stymied by Japan's decentralization of industry. No discrete factories to target, most of Japan's industry was of the cottage industry variety. To fight this, Le May suggested the firebombing of Japanese cities stating that if they destroyed their homes and families, the workers would lose heart and stop. More people were killed in the firestorm that ripped through Tokyo than died at Hiroshima.

As much as people like to quote 'I was only obeying orders' from Nurnberg, the most often stated phrase came from the judges when they said, 'We're not on trial, you are'.

Both of the ones I chose had an intrinsic strength tied to their status, and both had their dark sides. The Samurai had institutionalized their caste, and like any such decision, it meant people who were self-serving had the chance to gain control. When the only choice the government had was Kwampaku (Supreme military leader, not of the Samurai class) and Shogun, (Same but a Samurai) who do you think ended up in charge?

The Spartans had divided their society into three parts, the Spartiate (Warriors and landowners) were supreme. Perioeci (Non landowners and non citizens) and the Helots, who were citizens of the close by cities controlled by Sparta, little more than slaves as they were state owned workers. But to assure the Helots and Perioeci knew their place, some Spartans used tactics not unlike those used by the KKK to convince the Blacks of the Antebellum south to kowtow to their 'betters'.

Both of those I chose had their people who committed atrocities, as there would have been among the Mando'a, but the other Mando in the game are closer to ODESSA, the organization that got the worst of the Nazis you describe out of Germany after the War. People that would have been condemned by their own if they returned home.

As for becoming Pacifists, I think it was George taking a subtle dig at Japan. After WWII, the US created the modern Japanese Constitution, and demanded that the Japanese sign it. Article 9 states and I quote:

'Aspiring sincerely to an international peace based on justice and order, the Japanese people forever renounce war as a sovereign right of the nation and the threat or use of force as means of settling international disputes. 2) In order to accomplish the aim of the preceding paragraph, land, sea, and air forces, as well as other war potential, will never be maintained. The right of belligerency of the state will not be recognized'.

Why do you think their military calls itself a Self Defense Force?


'To argue with those who have renounced the use and authority of reason is as futile as to administer medicine to the dead.' Now who said that?

From the one who brought you;
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Last edited by machievelli; 02-06-2010 at 03:18 AM.
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Old 02-06-2010, 03:38 AM   #45
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Sorry, but I don't recall saying all Nazi and everyone in Germany are and forever will be evil heartless monsters.

I called Mandalorians a bunch of bastards whom ran around and rained genocide. The Nazi reference was a passing comment. Would you prefer Early Japanese Warlords? Mongols? Spartans? Humans? Terribly written race of space faring people?

My point is, they are cardboard cutouts with the word "bad" written across their chest. They have almost no depth outside "We must kill everyone on this planet for our honor and because battle is really, really fun". Genocide is a game to them, and its a game because that is about as much thought was put into their writing.

I'm not trying to deconstruct WW2 and give a political talking point on the moral ground of a world war. I'm calling an entire race of people out for being written as the worst kind of people and why I find it baffling they have a following that considers them honorable.

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Old 02-06-2010, 03:46 AM   #46
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Great, so a mild TCW rant thread has become an exploration of the the evils of Nazism and the pitfalls associated with describing the History of the Third Reich.

History Cat is unimpressed!


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Old 02-06-2010, 04:43 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by True_Avery View Post
Sorry, but I don't recall saying all Nazi and everyone in Germany are and forever will be evil heartless monsters.

I called Mandalorians a bunch of bastards whom ran around and rained genocide. The Nazi reference was a passing comment. Would you prefer Early Japanese Warlords? Mongols? Spartans? Humans? Terribly written race of space faring people?

My point is, they are cardboard cutouts with the word "bad" written across their chest. They have almost no depth outside "We must kill everyone on this planet for our honor and because battle is really, really fun". Genocide is a game to them, and its a game because that is about as much thought was put into their writing.

I'm not trying to deconstruct WW2 and give a political talking point on the moral ground of a world war. I'm calling an entire race of people out for being written as the worst kind of people and why I find it baffling they have a following that considers them honorable.
The ones shown in the game, with the exception of Canderous, were the gutter scum that still wanted to murder and destroy and call it right. Just like those who ran after the Second World war to try to find a way to ressurect it. Judging their race by their action is like judging the entire 100th Bmbardment group of the same war by those who took their name, Hell's Angels


'To argue with those who have renounced the use and authority of reason is as futile as to administer medicine to the dead.' Now who said that?

From the one who brought you;
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Old 02-06-2010, 05:59 AM   #48
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The ones shown in the game, with the exception of Canderous, were the gutter scum that still wanted to murder and destroy and call it right. Just like those who ran after the Second World war to try to find a way to ressurect it. Judging their race by their action is like judging the entire 100th Bmbardment group of the same war by those who took their name, Hell's Angels
I'll continue this conversation when you remove your subtext about me being a History Ignorant Bigot for judging a fictional group of people based on what lore is available.

This isn't reality. It is fiction. It is the writers job to help me empathize and see this group' point of view; not mine. If I'm not seeing what you're seeing, then I either missed something in the story or you're adding liberal amounts of your own fluff and supposition to the lore.

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Old 02-06-2010, 06:39 AM   #49
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I do admit that I do sometimes watch CW with my DB9 and DB5 and spend time with them. It is entertaining. We all came to the conclusion Dutchess Whatsherface is an insult to all Mandalorians. Go Deathwatch!
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Old 02-06-2010, 06:50 AM   #50
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I do admit that I do sometimes watch CW with my DB9 and DB5 and spend time with them. It is entertaining. We all came to the conclusion Dutchess Whatsherface is an insult to all Mandalorians. Go Deathwatch!
The Deathwatch want to try to conquer the Galaxy through war, believe in battle circles, and killed mercilessly as Mercenaries. No ideals of diplomacy, etc. Their beliefs are based around the idea that they should be more like the Mandos of the Kotor Era... you know, the ones that rained genocide opon the Republic and innocent planets.

They are a bunch of cut-throat murderers. What is there to like about them other than villain quality?

They have no honor.

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Old 02-06-2010, 07:07 AM   #51
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Mandalorians from the KOTOR era were pretty bad. But why don't they be like Mandalorians from the post KOTOR era? Canderous didin't fight much during his reign as Mandalore and the clans lived in peace, though they still kept the ancient traditions. Dutchess Satine is ruining everything! ANd now they are trying to make it romantic in the show, in the last episode, Obi Kenobi and her had an affair.
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Old 02-06-2010, 07:17 AM   #52
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Mandalorians from the KOTOR era were pretty bad. But why don't they be like Mandalorians from the post KOTOR era? Canderous didin't fight much during his reign as Mandalore and the clans lived in peace, though they still kept the ancient traditions. Dutchess Satine is ruining everything! ANd now they are trying to make it romantic in the show, in the last episode, Obi Kenobi and her had an affair.
Affair? Neither of them are married as far as I know.

Oh... and Post Kotor ERA Mandalorians were just as bad. Canderous only brought the clans together because they were a -stronger- force when they were combined. He still had a overall military power in mind.

aaaaannnndddd guess what they did with that unity? They combined forces with the Sith Empire and invaded the Republic again in the upcoming MMO. After that, the went to war with the Sith and Jedi again in the New Sith Wars.

Far in the future they fought the Empire, and eventually joined forced with the Vong against the Republic.

Dutchess Satine is one of the few to come forward and try to bring out diplomacy within her war loving people. She is doing more towards "peace" than Canderous ever did.

And in the end, she isn't ruining -anything- because both factions end up disappearing anyway to be replaced by Boba's Mandalorians.
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Old 02-06-2010, 07:23 AM   #53
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Deathwatch should be given a province or track of land on Dxun and make peace with the Dutchess.
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Old 02-06-2010, 09:09 AM   #54
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Deathwatch should be given a province or track of land on Dxun and make peace with the Dutchess.
The point is, they won't make peace. They don't want some land on a moon somewhere. They have an entire moon already (Concordia). They want to lead the Mandalorians as a whole back to the old ways. The duchess is in their way, 'cuz she's sorta figured out that murder is wrong...which is a big achievement, considering that three and a half millennia passed without the Mandalorians figuring it out or caring.


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Old 02-06-2010, 09:17 AM   #55
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good point. I still can't get used to this new Mandalorian movement.
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Old 02-06-2010, 10:18 AM   #56
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that's because the DeathWatch honors their own code. I did not see any of the original Mandalorian Code in that episode, so pretty much DeathWatch is just a bunch of common mercenaries, which were totally different from Canderous's Mandalorians
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Old 02-06-2010, 10:25 AM   #57
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If I were Mand'alor I would assasinate the dutchess, crush deathwatch and then arise from all others as best Mandalore ever!
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Old 02-06-2010, 10:30 AM   #58
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The Duchess is not the problem, its their democracy. If you assasinated the Duchess, another would take her place, and you would be exiled, killed, or imprisoned for what you did. a real blow would be to create a political party, Win as the Leader, and reorganize the Mandalorian Government. You probably would have to cripple the government first though
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Old 02-06-2010, 11:37 AM   #59
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The ones shown in the game, with the exception of Canderous, were the gutter scum that still wanted to murder and destroy and call it right.
Why not Canderous as well? How is he different?

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that's because the DeathWatch honors their own code. I did not see any of the original Mandalorian Code in that episode, so pretty much DeathWatch is just a bunch of common mercenaries, which were totally different from Canderous's Mandalorians
What is the "Mandalorian code"? Furthermore, what is the difference between the Death Watch/True Mandalorians and Canderous' clans, except that the former doesn't work for anyone?


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Old 02-06-2010, 12:13 PM   #60
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I'll continue this conversation when you remove your subtext about me being a History Ignorant Bigot for judging a fictional group of people based on what lore is available.
I apologize if that is how my statements were taken. A lot of my own knee jerk reaction is the soldier=evil of modern society where no warrior goes off to fight unless he's either brainwashed, forced or naturally homicidal.

My use of history as example is my own nature, because as horrible as our enemy is, we wil have done as bad if not worse. As I said in my first post, why do you think I left the Nazis out? They weren't strong, they built on the nature of their people then skewed it.

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This isn't reality. It is fiction. It is the writers job to help me empathize and see this group' point of view; not mine. If I'm not seeing what you're seeing, then I either missed something in the story or you're adding liberal amounts of your own fluff and supposition to the lore.
As for the games mention of the Mandalorians, there is only one specific incident reported, the genocide on Cathar, that was a true atrocity. Everything else was more like the propoganda one side uses to justify their own actions. As for the specific episode they are discussing, that I have never seen.

When I was writing my own versions of the two games, I went back and everytime I had a chance, talked to Canderous. He is a thug at the start of the game, the hired muscle of a gang, but his actions from that point are of someone who has much greater depth. His reminiscences focused on how they viewed the same war, and didn't boast of mass slaughter, but on the desire for a 'great' opponent to defeat. A lot of my later thoughts on it were linked to the EU books of Karen Traviss, who must have seen the same.


'To argue with those who have renounced the use and authority of reason is as futile as to administer medicine to the dead.' Now who said that?

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Old 02-06-2010, 03:06 PM   #61
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What is the "Mandalorian code"? Furthermore, what is the difference between the Death Watch/True Mandalorians and Canderous' clans, except that the former doesn't work for anyone?
The Difference is that DeathWatch will kill anyone and everyone on sight. The True Mandos knew when to shoot and when to hold fire, except the thugs and raiders of course. The DeathWatch just attacks without good planning, and they do suicidal moves, something I never saw from Ordo's Clan. And, the DeathWatch's Leader is a coward. He attacks, and then retreats and lets his servants do the work. Canderous would have fought to the death.
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Old 02-06-2010, 03:53 PM   #62
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The Difference is that DeathWatch will kill anyone and everyone on sight
Killing everything just for being there was the entire premise of the Mandalorian Wars.

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The DeathWatch just attacks without good planning, and they do suicidal moves, something I never saw from Ordo's Clan.
Examples, please?

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And, the DeathWatch's Leader is a coward. He attacks, and then retreats and lets his servants do the work. Canderous would have fought to the death.
Please explain to me what is so ****ing admirable about fighting to the death for everything and doing everything yourself. So far you seem to just be splitting hairs as for the differences between these groups.


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Old 02-06-2010, 03:53 PM   #63
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How about we all just agree the TCW f***ed EVERYTHING that is not related directly to the Clone Wars. While stuff about clones IS true, everything else they ever talk about (with exception of the darksaber, thats total bull----).

And what about them trying to make the show appeal to older audiences? That is definately not happening...
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Old 02-06-2010, 04:19 PM   #64
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Killing everything just for being there was the entire premise of the Mandalorian Wars.
That's True, but not always, atleast not during Canderous' reign. They did not kill everything, in fact, in K2, I only saw Mando's fighting for good reasons, self-defense, assisting the Exile, shall I continue?

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Examples, please?
Hmm, let me see. If you watched the episode you would have seen the DeathWatch assasin who created that bomb in the streets jumped off the ledge to kill himself. Also the Duchess informs Obi-Wan that their DeathWatch merc that they captured took his own life. In K2, I never saw anything that hinted suicide for the Mandalorians, unless I missed something.

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Please explain to me what is so ****ing admirable about fighting to the death for everything and doing everything yourself. So far you seem to just be splitting hairs as for the differences between these groups.
The thing that's admirable as you say is the Mandalorians during the Kotor Era were more Organized, especially during the Mandalorian Wars. Their attacks were well planned. If you talked to Canderous in K1, he would have told you his stories of battles long past. Althir where they found a weakness, and organized their forces to exploit it. The DeathWatch is no more than Common Thugs who can't even organize a well-planned attack. All they did was plan to get the civies on their side. And their leader is barely a good fighter, that was shown by his cowardice. He only fought Kenobi for a few minutes, and that was all attacking. When Kenobi fought back, he ran away and let his little "pets" do the work for him. A True Leader would have found a weakness in Kenobi's attack and exploited it, defeated him, etc. THAT is what the Mandalorians are so admirable about. Their Combat Tactics are barely surpassed by the Echani, because they are skilled hand warriors. However, after the Mando War, they lost that tactic as they became common mercenaries like the DeathWatch, until Canderous brought order to them

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Originally Posted by None223
How about we all just agree the TCW f***ed EVERYTHING that is not related directly to the Clone Wars. While stuff about clones IS true, everything else they ever talk about (with exception of the darksaber, thats total bull----).
agreed. The DarkSaber does look like bull****, and then they threw away the Mandalorian Culture, tactics, etc. Way to go LF

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And what about them trying to make the show appeal to older audiences? That is definately not happening...
The show was made for younger audiences, I guess we'll have to accept that, but I would like it to be a little more expanded on its age group focus
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Old 02-06-2010, 04:30 PM   #65
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However, after the Mando War, they lost that tactic as they became common mercenaries like the DeathWatch, until Canderous brought order to them
Order or not, they're still mercenaries, willing to fight for whoever can pay the most. That doesn't really strike me as 'honourable'.

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then they threw away the Mandalorian Culture, tactics, etc. Way to go LF
They haven't thrown it all away. This is *one* group of Mandalorians who don't follow this hallowed 'code of honour', while there are other groups who do.






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Old 02-06-2010, 04:39 PM   #66
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Remember Keleborn on the Ravager? He made a major screw up by accidently destroying one of the proton charges and I specificly remember him say "Canderous, I have failed. I have accidently set off one of the charges! Should I..." Canderous interupts.

"No, that won't be nessasary."
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Old 02-06-2010, 04:54 PM   #67
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Order or not, they're still mercenaries, willing to fight for whoever can pay the most. That doesn't really strike me as 'honourable'.
Really? Because I heard that only the fallen clans were no-good mercs. Canderous changed all that, because after Revan, he wasn't in it for money. K2 states that well

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Remember Keleborn on the Ravager? He made a major screw up by accidently destroying one of the proton charges and I specificly remember him say "Canderous, I have failed. I have accidently set off one of the charges! Should I..." Canderous interupts.

"No, that won't be nessasary."
I don't remember that, Kelborn never contacted Mandalore on the Ravager, it was Zuka. so that Dialogue is either cut content or you made it up
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Old 02-06-2010, 05:01 PM   #68
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I thought it was kelborn, I may be mistaken though. I know it was one of them. Play it through again.
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Old 02-06-2010, 05:02 PM   #69
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I did recently, and I never noticed that Dialogue on the Ravager.

Anyway back on topic, I think that LF wanted to stir up the audience with the so-called "Darksaber" but I really think thats a load of crap.
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Old 02-06-2010, 05:08 PM   #70
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Ok, here's the link. It was Zuka. google Zuka on Wookipedia and read towards the bottom. It talks about his honourable personality and how hewas willing to murder himself after he screwed up. I hate all this deathwatch crap too however. Besides, whos ever heard of a saber weilding mando?
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Old 02-06-2010, 05:59 PM   #71
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Well, one or two did in K1, if you remember in fighting the Mando leader on Dantooine, but he was just another raider fiend
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Old 02-06-2010, 06:08 PM   #72
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That's True, but not always, atleast not during Canderous' reign. They did not kill everything, in fact, in K2, I only saw Mando's fighting for good reasons, self-defense, assisting the Exile, shall I continue?
They "did not kill everything" because they didn't have enough people. Canderous says as much that the only reason they're not at war with the Republic again is because they're rebuilding to fight again. As for them helping the good guys in TSL, fighting evil does not make one good. The Mandalorians would just as soon attack the Republic as they would the Sith, and for exactly the same reason. They don't give a **** about whether the Sith are evil or not. It's all about either a) Fighting for money or b) Fighting for its own sake.

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Hmm, let me see. If you watched the episode you would have seen the DeathWatch assasin who created that bomb in the streets jumped off the ledge to kill himself. Also the Duchess informs Obi-Wan that their DeathWatch merc that they captured took his own life. In K2, I never saw anything that hinted suicide for the Mandalorians, unless I missed something.
I did watch the episode in question, thank you not-at-all, and I got no impression whatsoever that there was any fundamental difference between those Mandalorians and the others we see.

Since we seem to be on the issue of suicide, the Mandalorian culture has an honor system such that if you lose a fight to a vastly superior opponent, you lose your honor, and you can only regain it by fighting that person again and dying. Davrel tries this in TSL; he was willing to start a fight that he could never survive for his honor. Really, they're just as fanatical as the Death Watch, just in slightly different ways.

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All they did was plan to get the civies on their side.
Getting public support is key to holding onto the government once you take it over. The Death Watch doesn't have the manpower to capture and hold another planet on its own.

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And their leader is barely a good fighter, that was shown by his cowardice. He only fought Kenobi for a few minutes, and that was all attacking. When Kenobi fought back, he ran away and let his little "pets" do the work for him.
"All attacking?" So what? You're supposed to stay on the offensive in a sword fight. More to the point, if he was a coward, then he would have evacuated with his men when he had the chance.

That Vizsla got his ass handed to him by Kenobi is hardly a strike against his fighting ability, since he's an ordinary man and Obi-Wan is not only a Jedi, but one of the most skilled swordsmen in their entire Order. The mere fact that Vizsla got the idea in his head to challenge a ****ing Jedi to a swordfight in the first place puts him on an level of badassery equal to (if not higher than) Jango Fett, who evidently is toast against a Jedi unless he's got his jetpack.

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A True Leader would have found a weakness in Kenobi's attack and exploited it, defeated him, etc.
No, in all likelihood a True Mandalorian would get his ass busted just as easily as Vizsla did, because not only do Mandalorians have no Force training, but they also don't know **** about lightsaber combat. Where does this idea about Mandalorians being so skilled in combat actually come from, anyway?

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Well, one or two did in K1, if you remember in fighting the Mando leader on Dantooine, but he was just another raider fiend
Sherruk is his name. His case is notable because Canderous says that he and his people are "taking scraps when [they] should be taking worlds!" Basically, Canderous is saying that Sherruk is a bastard because he was only terrorizing and extorting local farmers, instead of much larger groups of people.


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Old 02-06-2010, 06:14 PM   #73
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Besides, whos ever heard of a saber weilding mando?
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Well, one or two did in K1, if you remember in fighting the Mando leader on Dantooine, but he was just another raider fiend
It's also implied that the ones on Kashyyyk were using lightsabres if you read their datapads. I guess they thought imitating Jedi was a good idea.


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Old 02-06-2010, 08:00 PM   #74
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Order or not, they're still mercenaries, willing to fight for whoever can pay the most. That doesn't really strike me as 'honourable'.



They haven't thrown it all away. This is *one* group of Mandalorians who don't follow this hallowed 'code of honour', while there are other groups who do.
You do remember the Prussian Ethic (Created by the Prussian Mercenaries) is the primary tradition of the German army since Frederick the Great, right?

And that my namesake's primary reason for writing the Prince, and saying armies should be home grown was not because the mercenaries of the era were not honorable. It was rather that they honored the contract instead of going with 'whoever can pay the most.'


'To argue with those who have renounced the use and authority of reason is as futile as to administer medicine to the dead.' Now who said that?

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Old 02-06-2010, 09:07 PM   #75
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Clone Wars: Degrading the GOOD Mandalorian Name

I lol'd.


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Fix their home team score on the board to the debt clock, they can win every game 17,000,000,000,000 to 24. Losing team gets taxed by the IRS 100%, then droned."
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Old 02-06-2010, 10:06 PM   #76
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Not exactly, Mandos envisioned by Obsidian had more common sense then that. In K1 all Mandos apparently attacked on sight, but in K2 they didn't. When the Exile met the mandos, they held their fire. In K1, they wouldn't have done that.
You won't be proving your point like that. That's one of the possible scenarios in the game, in other, they will simply try shoot you dead, in the good old mando style.

I suppose you could say the mandalorians under Canderous (Mandalore) are a completely different animal. But that too would be a long shot, since the "New Mandalorians":

1. Still follow the same code, apparently.
2. Are composed of many "Old Mandalorians", with the mindset from the old times and all.
3. We don't know how successful whatever Canderous was trying to do was.

By that last point, it does seem unlikely he can maintain control of the Mandalorian bunch when he's travelling with the Exile and company to the Unknown Regions. It's likely and safer to assume a new Mandalore just stepped up, as interim first, maybe, but as time passed and Canderous did not make it back, they had a new leader for good.


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Old 02-06-2010, 10:21 PM   #77
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Actually, Canderous lead the Mandos after the Exile departed

Show spoiler
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Old 02-06-2010, 10:49 PM   #78
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Hmm, let me see. If you watched the episode you would have seen the DeathWatch assasin who created that bomb in the streets jumped off the ledge to kill himself. Also the Duchess informs Obi-Wan that their DeathWatch merc that they captured took his own life. In K2, I never saw anything that hinted suicide for the Mandalorians, unless I missed something.
Didn't you play Canderous' side quest in K1? Jagi commits suicide to cleans his honor.

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Old 02-06-2010, 11:03 PM   #79
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The only Mandalorian group that retained the attitude that everyone is talking about in this thread is the Death Watch.
The New Mandalorians separated themselves from Mandalorian culture by refusing to defend themselves, not following Mand'alor, and not wearing armor.
The True Mandalorians (the ones everyone loves) wore the armor, spoke the language, defended themselves, rallied to Mand'alor, and protected their families.
The best of the True Mandalorians were the members of Clan Skirata. They did what was necessary to protect the clan, never committing any uncalled for killing (as in, not senselessly murdering innocents). They separated themselves from the savage ways of the (Neo-)Crusaders and Death Watch, but not to the point where they became pacifist dar'Manda. They wore the armor proudly, letting the galaxy know that they were Mando'ade and proud of it.
The Mandalorian honor code has nothing against losing to a superior opponent.
Even the savage Canderous agrees:
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"You defeated the Mandalore clans in the war, Revan. You were the only one in the galaxy who could best us. We had never met one like you before, and never since. How can you even ask if I'll follow you? Whatever you are fighting, it will be worthy of my skill. I'm your man until the end, Revan, no matter how this plays out."
Sounds a bit like he was proud to be serving under the one that beat them, not angry because he stole their honor.
What most of you are doing is blaming all the Mandalorians except the pacifist dar'Manda for the actions of the few Death Watch and Mandalorian Wars era mandos.

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Old 02-07-2010, 07:22 AM   #80
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So are you saying that the deathwatch are the true mandalorians. But wait, they disregarded canon in that episode by saying "Jango Fett was a common bounty hunter, nothing more." Whats up with that? I thought he served as Mandalore before going to Kamino.
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