lfnetwork.com mark read register faq members calendar

Thread: Austrailia bans porn with small breasts
Thread Tools Display Modes
Post a new thread. Add a reply to this thread. Indicate all threads in this forum as read. Subscribe to this forum. RSS feed: this forum RSS feed: all forums
Old 05-27-2010, 07:51 PM   #1
kipperthefrog
Veteran
 
kipperthefrog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Blue Hawaii
Posts: 846
Austrailia bans porn with small breasts

http://theweek.com/article/index/105...all_breast_ban

their excuse is that women with small breasts can encourage pedophilia. that will be the doorway to banning anything they don't like.Who decides what breasts are big enough? What will be next? one day their will be no nude women at all. they won't stop with just porno. they will want to control movies, comics, books, everything. it seems to me like a way for the government to soften people up for more censorship and "thought crime".


kipperthefrog is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 05-27-2010, 11:22 PM   #2
Achilles
Dapper Chimp
 
Achilles's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 8,204
Helpful! Veteran Modder Forum Veteran 
Shhh....

I've recently decide that I love Australia. Please don't ruin it for me.

@topic: yeah, seems like a can o' worms to me. I don't see this one holding up for very long.
Achilles is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 05-28-2010, 10:04 AM   #3
kipperthefrog
Veteran
 
kipperthefrog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Blue Hawaii
Posts: 846
Quote:
Originally Posted by Achilles View Post
Shhh....


@topic: yeah, seems like a can o' worms to me. I don't see this one holding up for very long.
what makes you think so?


kipperthefrog is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 06-01-2010, 08:39 PM   #4
Darth Avlectus
Your point?
 
Darth Avlectus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Attack on Titan
Posts: 4,255
Current Game: Soul Calibur 5
Another thread like this again...

I'm pretty sure even a relatively "flat" adult woman stands out from the under-aged.

Just think about why this wouldn't stand:
1) Never underestimate the power of human laziness
2) Banning imported porn and taking the time to go sifting through all that...I mean, really?
3) What is their definition of big and small w.r.t. breast sizes?

Also, ridiculous as it sounds, I can picture a few discrimination lawsuits eventually happening based on body size and shape if it really came down to it.

FTR: I like those danish babes. No worry about crushing or breaking them.


"I cant see S***! --YOU GO TO HELL!" --Tourettes guy
Darth Avlectus is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 06-01-2010, 09:32 PM   #5
kipperthefrog
Veteran
 
kipperthefrog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Blue Hawaii
Posts: 846
Quote:
Originally Posted by GTA:SWcity View Post
1) Never underestimate the power of human laziness
whats that got to do with anything?

if anything human laziness will allow them to ban more stuff with little resistance.


kipperthefrog is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 06-01-2010, 11:33 PM   #6
Totenkopf
English spoken in What
 
Totenkopf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: What?
Posts: 4,787
Imperialist Meatbags Guild Member The Walking Carpets Guild Member Forum Veteran 
Just curious, but are small breasts that big a turn-on for you? Or are you engaging in some kind of frantic slippery-slope fallacy?


Now, I want you to remember that no bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor, dumb bastard die for his country.---Patton

There is no room in this country for hyphenated Americanism.---Teddy Roosevelt

I never forget a face, but in your case I'll make an exception.---Groucho

And if you all get killed, I'll piss on your graves.---Shaman Urdnot

How would you like to own a little bit of my foot in your ass.---Red Foreman
Totenkopf is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 06-01-2010, 11:36 PM   #7
kipperthefrog
Veteran
 
kipperthefrog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Blue Hawaii
Posts: 846
Quote:
Originally Posted by Totenkopf View Post
Just curious, but are small breasts that big a turn-on for you? Or are you engaging in some kind of frantic slippery-slope fallacy?
it is a slippery slope. one they get a foot hold in small breasts, they can say slightly bigger sizes are un acceptable.


kipperthefrog is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 06-02-2010, 12:22 AM   #8
Totenkopf
English spoken in What
 
Totenkopf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: What?
Posts: 4,787
Imperialist Meatbags Guild Member The Walking Carpets Guild Member Forum Veteran 
You mean the same way it can be argued that if homosexual marriage is allowed that everyone else will want their arrangments validated or that if you restrict one form of abortion that all the others will evaporate or if they take away your guns you'll become slaves to the govt, etc.......


Now, I want you to remember that no bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor, dumb bastard die for his country.---Patton

There is no room in this country for hyphenated Americanism.---Teddy Roosevelt

I never forget a face, but in your case I'll make an exception.---Groucho

And if you all get killed, I'll piss on your graves.---Shaman Urdnot

How would you like to own a little bit of my foot in your ass.---Red Foreman
Totenkopf is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 06-02-2010, 12:36 AM   #9
Darth Avlectus
Your point?
 
Darth Avlectus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Attack on Titan
Posts: 4,255
Current Game: Soul Calibur 5
Quote:
Originally Posted by kipperthefrog View Post
whats that got to do with anything?

if anything human laziness will allow them to ban more stuff with little resistance.
Or being that Aussies are known for being easygoing...for the most part anyhow...their customs agents aren't really going to be wanting to split hairs. Plus where info like precise breast size isn't specified in a porn film, verification is going to be a hassle.

What I illustrated earlier: Though ridiculous, stuff like that would pop up everywhere. Stuff that is ridiculous but in a legal sense, not necessarily out of the realm of consideration.

Myriads of legal questions and cases to consider possible loopholes and contradictions in the law will arise like mold over woodchips in humid climates (fast and in huge masses--and similarly about as irritating on a day-in-day-out basis).

Also...even if statistics show the porn industry is in decline economically and has been for decades, really, it is still a lucrative industry that still rakes in money. Their courts will have to fight the industry as well as its own irritated citizens...a relentless fight.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kipperthefrog View Post
it is a slippery slope. one they get a foot hold in small breasts, they can say slightly bigger sizes are un acceptable.
OK. So you may not have any real defenders of flat chested porn, maybe not so many for a or b cups either... at some point it will hit a margin where people aren't going to take it. Unless AU is a dictatorship and so totally different than the USA in terms of citizen power and rights.

While I see what you're saying...in the end it would only be a loss of but a few battles. And besides, we haven't even begun to rule in the likelihood of the black market. If there is a demand, the black market would bring the goods. Just my opinion, I personally don't see the AU gov't. getting as uptight about porn contraband as it would over drugs and weapons, etc.

Laziness wins out where their gov't workers tire out on their priority targets and not really feel like going after this when all that is done. Measuring the total possible harm, they would likely make the judgment call that porn does less harm than drugs and weapons. Even propaganda and conspiracy media are higher danger, considering all things.

I'll clarify whatever you'd like if anything doesn't make sense.


"I cant see S***! --YOU GO TO HELL!" --Tourettes guy
Darth Avlectus is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 06-02-2010, 12:43 AM   #10
purifier
Forumite
 
purifier's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: DisneyLand
Posts: 721
LF Jester 
Not that the porn industry itself deserves any "above the law" special treatment, especially when children are concerned in the matter. And the world could probably do without porn in general anyway.......

(What - the - hell am I saying??? -- "could probably do without porn in general" )

.....but seriously, I was kinda of surprised by what I read in the news article. Those little laws that they've already passed, about porn, seem to hint towards a state of Totalitarianism.

Maybe I'm jumping the gun, but isn't that how it usually starts?

Somebody enlighten me on this one.


SITH HAPPENS

Last edited by purifier; 06-02-2010 at 01:19 AM.
purifier is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 06-04-2010, 07:58 PM   #11
Kurgan
Headhunter
 
Kurgan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 1997
Location: The Dawn of Time
Posts: 18,322
LFN Staff Member 10 year veteran! 
Slippery slope fallacy. Maybe it won't work, but it's not a bad idea to cut into fueling pedophilia. I'm as "free speech" as the next guy, but everybody knows that porn isn't "art."


Download JK2 maps for JA Server|BOOT CAMP!|Strategic Academy|
(JA Server: 108.178.55.189:29070)


"The Concussion Rifle is the weapon of a Jedi Knight Player, an elegant weapon, from a more civilized community." - Kyle Katarn
Kurgan is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 06-04-2010, 08:23 PM   #12
kipperthefrog
Veteran
 
kipperthefrog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Blue Hawaii
Posts: 846
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurgan View Post
Slippery slope fallacy. Maybe it won't work, but it's not a bad idea to cut into fueling pedophilia. I'm as "free speech" as the next guy, but everybody knows that porn isn't "art."
can you clarify this? what do you mean "Maybe it won't work, but it's not a bad idea to cut into fueling pedophilia?"


kipperthefrog is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 06-04-2010, 08:32 PM   #13
Kurgan
Headhunter
 
Kurgan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 1997
Location: The Dawn of Time
Posts: 18,322
LFN Staff Member 10 year veteran! 
Sorry if it wasn't clear. I'll attempt to clarify what I meant:

There's obviously a market for porn that portrays characters as very young, with immature sexual characteristics. Logically, this would appeal to people with pedophilic (or the proper term for those attracted to those who haven't finished purberty) tendencies. If you're going to say "don't ban all porn, but the 'bad' kind" then I don't see the issue here.

People get porn, not to be too crude here, so they can get off. If people get off on actresses in sexual situations that look like little girls (even if they technically aren't), isn't selling products that appeal to this tendency a dangerous thing? We can already presume that sexual attraction to underage persons is deviance. Catering to such unstable, potentially dangerous individuals is a good thing, how?

Giving people this stuff also gives them ideas. It doesn't mean they will go out and molest somebody if they see the porn, but neither is it a good argument that if they don't get the porn, that they'll go rape somebody to fulfill this "need." Another place this kind of thing comes up is in regard to video game violence (a whole 'nother can of worms). We have agreed on this forum that basically video game violence really isn't an issue, except in the hands of people who are already mentally unbalance. The "faux pedo" porn appears designed to appeal directly to these folks, so we're already dealing with a demographic that is potentially the powder keg. A hypothetical parallel would be violent video games that appeal directly to sociopaths.

So if they want to ban imported porn (a good idea anyway, because different countries have different age of consent laws), fine. If they want to set up restrictions, great. I don't see the problem here, other than the slippery slope fallacy (if they ban this, then they'll ban that, and that and soon you won't have porn, then you won't have art, or free speech, etc).

The whole idea of it "working" or not, is just the point that laws like this would have some impact, even if they wouldn't erase the problem of sexual predation of underage people. Sometimes people will argue that if enough people break a law, you should just repeal the law. I don't think that's a logical argument against some piece of legislation.


Download JK2 maps for JA Server|BOOT CAMP!|Strategic Academy|
(JA Server: 108.178.55.189:29070)


"The Concussion Rifle is the weapon of a Jedi Knight Player, an elegant weapon, from a more civilized community." - Kyle Katarn
Kurgan is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 06-04-2010, 09:07 PM   #14
kipperthefrog
Veteran
 
kipperthefrog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Blue Hawaii
Posts: 846
so who is to say what breast size is too small? if a guy gets caught with an old lover' guide movie and an Agent says "her breasts looks too small" , then what? a court decides if the questioned movie is acceptable or not?

face it. there are no absolute breast sizes. its a gradient. there is size A for example, Size B and any size in between. before you know it they will arrest people for depictions of B size breasts although it not officially illegal, but they will be deemed too small. everyone else will have to stay away from small breasts porn for fear cops can justify calling it obscene. the bar will get raised up to size b to size C untill no women pics at all.


kipperthefrog is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 06-05-2010, 12:33 AM   #15
Achilles
Dapper Chimp
 
Achilles's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 8,204
Helpful! Veteran Modder Forum Veteran 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurgan View Post
I'm as "free speech" as the next guy, but everybody knows that porn isn't "art."
Could you please clarify this? It sure seems as though the argument "free speech is only protected if it's art" is strongly implied here.
Achilles is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 06-05-2010, 12:48 AM   #16
True_Avery
Banned
 
Status: Banned
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 2,002
Another thing that was mentioned that has not been mention here is that in Australia the female orgasm is banned. More precisely, the showing of female ejaculation is banned because it now counts as urine pornography, which is also banned in Australia. The misinformation behind female orgasms aside, the porn industry within Australia has also been dismantled by the previous government.

All -THAT- aside, most pornography is banned and blocked by internet filters that will be implemented in Australia soon as well. The slippery slope isn't as fallacious as you might think if you take a look at the censorship board that has been growing in power recently. Hell, games that don't match their rating criteria are illegal to sell in Australia.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurgan
Giving people this stuff also gives them ideas. It doesn't mean they will go out and molest somebody if they see the porn, but neither is it a good argument that if they don't get the porn, that they'll go rape somebody to fulfill this "need." Another place this kind of thing comes up is in regard to video game violence (a whole 'nother can of worms). We have agreed on this forum that basically video game violence really isn't an issue, except in the hands of people who are already mentally unbalance. The "faux pedo" porn appears designed to appeal directly to these folks, so we're already dealing with a demographic that is potentially the powder keg. A hypothetical parallel would be violent video games that appeal directly to sociopaths.
And people who are mentally unbalanced are just that: mentally unbalanced. I'm pretty sure a sociopath is a sociopath without porn or video games, and find and kill animals regardless of what media is at hand for them. Same for pedophiles. Porn or not, a pedophile is going to look at children sexually. They have been around before porn and video games, exist now, and will exist after.

The real question is why does Australia feel the need to ban violence in video games when they have one of the most violent film industries on the planet. Why? Misinformation, finger pointing, and the hot topic of the month. Parents thought Elvis' hips would turn their girls into sluts, boys into sex addicts, and it turns out it didn't. The trends moved, and the new reasons for humanities problems got put on something else.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurgan
I'm as "free speech" as the next guy, but everybody knows that porn isn't "art."
Art is in the eye of the beholder, so I disagree.

Last edited by True_Avery; 06-05-2010 at 08:14 AM.
True_Avery is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 06-05-2010, 01:13 AM   #17
Liverandbacon
I'm only worth a piano?
 
Liverandbacon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 651
Forum Veteran LF Jester Folder extraordinaire 
Quote:
Originally Posted by True_Avery View Post
I'm pretty sure a sociopath is a sociopath without porn or video games, and find and kill animals regardless of what media is at hand for them. Same for pedophiles.
QFE.

------
BTW, this is still in no way a reason not to ban actual child pornography, etc., as that still harms the child whether it creates new pedos or not.

Honestly, I don't really see why small-breast porn should be banned. It's not going to create new pedos, and hopefully it would keep the existing pedos from getting real CP, or even worse, abusing a child themselves. Doesn't stop me from wanting to exterminate them though (feel free to slippery slope fallacy that statement all you want, if that's how you get your jollies).

And slightly less OT: I still love Australia because for some unknown and wonderful reason, almost every single attractive woman I've met from there loves Americans. And running over cane toads intentionally, even if it means driving on the wrong side of the road for a while, is socially acceptable, if not outright encouraged. And the accents. I need to go back there soon...



--Too Dumb to Quit--
Liverandbacon is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 06-05-2010, 01:41 PM   #18
kipperthefrog
Veteran
 
kipperthefrog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Blue Hawaii
Posts: 846
Quote:
Originally Posted by True_Avery View Post
Another thing that was mentioned that has not been mention here is that in Australia the female orgasm is banned. More precisely, the showing of female ejaculation is banned because it now counts as urine pornography, which is also banned in Australia. The misinformation behind female orgasms aside, the porn industry within Australia has also been dismantled by the previous government.

All -THAT- aside, most pornography is banned and blocked by internet filters that will be implemented in Australia soon as well. The slippery slope isn't as fallacious as you might think if you take a look at the censorship board that has been growing in power recently. Hell, games that don't match their rating criteria are illegal to sell in Australia.


And people who are mentally unbalanced are just that: mentally unbalanced. I'm pretty sure a sociopath is a sociopath without porn or video games, and find and kill animals regardless of what media is at hand for them. Same for pedophiles. Porn or not, a pedophile is going to look at children sexually. They have been around before porn and video games, exist now, and will exist after.

The real question is why does Australia feel the need to ban violence in video games when they have one of the most violent film industries on the planet. Why? Misinformation, finger pointing, and the hot topic of the month. Parents thought Elvis' hips would turn their girls into sluts, boys into sex addicts, and it turns out it didn't. The trends moved, and the new reasons for humanities problems got put on something else.


Art is in the eye of the beholder, so I disagree.
thank you Avery. it appears that most people are in denial. I don't live in Australia, but who knows how many other countries will follow suit? If they can filter the internet, they can filter anything that disagrees with the government. Once we loose our freedom, it is hard to get it back.


kipperthefrog is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 06-05-2010, 09:37 PM   #19
Darth Avlectus
Your point?
 
Darth Avlectus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Attack on Titan
Posts: 4,255
Current Game: Soul Calibur 5
Quote:
Originally Posted by purifier View Post
<brevity>

.....but seriously, I was kinda of surprised by what I read in the news article. Those little laws that they've already passed, about porn, seem to hint towards a state of Totalitarianism.

Maybe I'm jumping the gun, but isn't that how it usually starts?

Somebody enlighten me on this one.
Well homes, far as I can tell, some are upset at the potential for fueling pedophilia (which I'm on board with), but insofar as banning free speech by banning certain porn...that's kind of tricky.

Calling something in advance that progresses by an incremental manner is going to be called slippery slope. What we'd need to examine is if whether the current action taken is really a step towards fascism or if it's just one of those things that tapers off after some time (I want to say a non-economic application/example of "diminishing Marginal Returns"). Is banning a certain kind of porn (which I had no idea people got off into) a step towards banning free speech?...Basically: I don't really know. There are some places that are pretty free but have strict laws about decency, while other free lands don't.

So, beats the hell outta me.


"I cant see S***! --YOU GO TO HELL!" --Tourettes guy
Darth Avlectus is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 06-05-2010, 10:16 PM   #20
kipperthefrog
Veteran
 
kipperthefrog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Blue Hawaii
Posts: 846
I noticed that their clasification board made vague comments about what constitutes "too small". seems like they are using the "chilling effect" to make people afraid to get porno since cops can say anything is "too small".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chilling_effect_%28term%29


kipperthefrog is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 06-06-2010, 12:26 AM   #21
Totenkopf
English spoken in What
 
Totenkopf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: What?
Posts: 4,787
Imperialist Meatbags Guild Member The Walking Carpets Guild Member Forum Veteran 
I'm pretty sure they'll have a hard time claiming that D+ cupsize is too small.


Now, I want you to remember that no bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor, dumb bastard die for his country.---Patton

There is no room in this country for hyphenated Americanism.---Teddy Roosevelt

I never forget a face, but in your case I'll make an exception.---Groucho

And if you all get killed, I'll piss on your graves.---Shaman Urdnot

How would you like to own a little bit of my foot in your ass.---Red Foreman
Totenkopf is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 06-06-2010, 01:39 AM   #22
purifier
Forumite
 
purifier's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: DisneyLand
Posts: 721
LF Jester 
Quote:
Originally Posted by GTA:SWcity View Post
Well homes, far as I can tell, some are upset at the potential for fueling pedophilia (which I'm on board with), but insofar as banning free speech by banning certain porn...that's kind of tricky.

Calling something in advance that progresses by an incremental manner is going to be called slippery slope. What we'd need to examine is if whether the current action taken is really a step towards fascism or if it's just one of those things that tapers off after some time (I want to say a non-economic application/example of "diminishing Marginal Returns"). Is banning a certain kind of porn (which I had no idea people got off into) a step towards banning free speech?...Basically: I don't really know. There are some places that are pretty free but have strict laws about decency, while other free lands don't.

So, beats the hell outta me.
Well I see, thanks for giving me a little more clarity on this.

As a artist, more like aspiring - not really self proclaimed yet, I guess I was wondering if it would be a violation of freedom of expression specifically, under freedom of speech more than anything. But what it really seems like to me, is that the Austrailian government is just trying to control people's unclean thoughts over there; with a hint of religious zeal behind it, I might add. Lol!

I guess it's too soon to really tell at this point.

So for now, I'm in much agreement with what you and a few others here are saying; especially it being a slippery slope.


SITH HAPPENS

Last edited by purifier; 06-06-2010 at 04:41 PM. Reason: Spelling.
purifier is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 06-06-2010, 12:36 PM   #23
kipperthefrog
Veteran
 
kipperthefrog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Blue Hawaii
Posts: 846
Quote:
Originally Posted by Totenkopf View Post
I'm pretty sure they'll have a hard time claiming that D+ cupsize is too small.
yea, but where will they draw the line? they will use the chilling effect I sited above.


kipperthefrog is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 06-06-2010, 07:13 PM   #24
Darth Avlectus
Your point?
 
Darth Avlectus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Attack on Titan
Posts: 4,255
Current Game: Soul Calibur 5
^^^If common sense is any indication, I'd think it'd taper off long before D+ cups. Then again, I don't know that, I'm just estimating what is reasonable in most people's eyes in either case.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTA:SWcity View Post
Is banning a certain kind of porn (which I had no idea people got off into) a step towards banning free speech?
Slight correction: I forgot, "MILF" and "cougar" porn is pretty popular. Guess I'm not keeping up on it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by purifier View Post
Well I see, thanks for giving me a little more clarity on this.

As a artist, more like aspiring - not really self proclaimed yet, I guess I was wondering if it would be a violation of freedom of expression specifically, under freedom of speech more than anything. But what it really seems like to me, is that the Austrailian government is just trying to control people's unclean thoughts over there; with a hint of religious zeal behind it, I might add. Lol!

I guess it's too soon to really tell at this point.

So for now, I'm in much agreement with what you and a few others here are saying; especially it being a slippery slope.
Well, but that's the thing is there is a slippery slope either way we can't really say 100% for sure. Both sides arguably have it going on:

One side says don't implement it b/c it won't stop here.
Refutation: it'll taper off.

The other side says if you don't that it necessarily feeds pedophilia.
Refutation: Sure it does, but so does anything else.

Most of us have a decidedly "bleh, whatever" attitude about it anyways, so.......err yeah.....


"I cant see S***! --YOU GO TO HELL!" --Tourettes guy
Darth Avlectus is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 06-06-2010, 09:56 PM   #25
Totenkopf
English spoken in What
 
Totenkopf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: What?
Posts: 4,787
Imperialist Meatbags Guild Member The Walking Carpets Guild Member Forum Veteran 
Quote:
Originally Posted by kipperthefrog View Post
yea, but where will they draw the line? they will use the chilling effect I sited above.
You feel they'll use it. But assume (as you obviously do) that that actually happens IN Australia. You don't live there, so big deal. Get your porn in the good ole US of A where there doesn't seem to be any such prohibition. Question remains, though, of how they'll justify banning even B cup porn when that clearly doesn't really look like kiddie porn either. What rationale are you claiming they'll bring forth to ban the rest of it? They claim to be focusing primarily on "flat-chested" porn (of young subjects, presumably, as an older woman with a small chest CLEARLY can't be confused for kiddie porn), so how will chilling effect actually work on anything other than small breasts? Do you really believe porn merchants are going to refrain from publishing and circulating product w/ even B or C cups, where the model clealy looks above the age of consent, b/c the law is aimed at clamping down on kiddie porn (where most of the subjects clearly look like children)? The only area I see your chilling effect having an impact is on porn that features teens or extremely young looking girls in their 20s. Unless the law is expanded beyond the kiddie porn rationale, say to porn in general, I don't see chilling effect having much impact.


Now, I want you to remember that no bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor, dumb bastard die for his country.---Patton

There is no room in this country for hyphenated Americanism.---Teddy Roosevelt

I never forget a face, but in your case I'll make an exception.---Groucho

And if you all get killed, I'll piss on your graves.---Shaman Urdnot

How would you like to own a little bit of my foot in your ass.---Red Foreman
Totenkopf is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 06-07-2010, 05:47 AM   #26
kipperthefrog
Veteran
 
kipperthefrog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Blue Hawaii
Posts: 846
they'll have their excuses to ban more things, wait and see.


kipperthefrog is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 06-07-2010, 09:15 AM   #27
Totenkopf
English spoken in What
 
Totenkopf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: What?
Posts: 4,787
Imperialist Meatbags Guild Member The Walking Carpets Guild Member Forum Veteran 
Still doesn't explain your citation of chilling effect.


Now, I want you to remember that no bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor, dumb bastard die for his country.---Patton

There is no room in this country for hyphenated Americanism.---Teddy Roosevelt

I never forget a face, but in your case I'll make an exception.---Groucho

And if you all get killed, I'll piss on your graves.---Shaman Urdnot

How would you like to own a little bit of my foot in your ass.---Red Foreman
Totenkopf is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 06-07-2010, 06:30 PM   #28
kipperthefrog
Veteran
 
kipperthefrog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Blue Hawaii
Posts: 846
even if it don t lead down a slippery slope, what is the Empirical data that drew them to the conclusion that small breast porno will encourage pedophilia like they claim. it's just an excuse.


kipperthefrog is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 06-07-2010, 11:57 PM   #29
Totenkopf
English spoken in What
 
Totenkopf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: What?
Posts: 4,787
Imperialist Meatbags Guild Member The Walking Carpets Guild Member Forum Veteran 
So, outside of saying porno is degrading to women or that it somehow leads to the objectification of and subsequent violence toward women, what can they come up with to justify banning the rest of it? And even if they do go that route, sans empirical data to back it up......so what. Don't move to Oz. Don't know about you, but I've never heard a saying that goes anything remotely like "as goes Austrailia, so goes the world".


Now, I want you to remember that no bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor, dumb bastard die for his country.---Patton

There is no room in this country for hyphenated Americanism.---Teddy Roosevelt

I never forget a face, but in your case I'll make an exception.---Groucho

And if you all get killed, I'll piss on your graves.---Shaman Urdnot

How would you like to own a little bit of my foot in your ass.---Red Foreman
Totenkopf is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 06-08-2010, 05:39 PM   #30
kipperthefrog
Veteran
 
kipperthefrog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Blue Hawaii
Posts: 846
Quote:
Originally Posted by Totenkopf View Post
So, outside of saying porno is degrading to women or that it somehow leads to the objectification of and subsequent violence toward women, what can they come up with to justify banning the rest of it?

where will they draw the line between a and b size? when people get in trouble, they woill probably use it as an excuse to ban nude women all together.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Totenkopf View Post
Don't move to Oz. Don't know about you, but I've never heard a saying that goes anything remotely like "as goes Austrailia, so goes the world".
ever hear of the bandwagon effect?

also, i still have yet to see proof that A size chests will encourage pedophilia.


kipperthefrog is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 06-08-2010, 10:38 PM   #31
Totenkopf
English spoken in What
 
Totenkopf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: What?
Posts: 4,787
Imperialist Meatbags Guild Member The Walking Carpets Guild Member Forum Veteran 
Quote:
Originally Posted by kipperthefrog View Post
where will they draw the line between a and b size? when people get in trouble, they woill probably use it as an excuse to ban nude women all together.
ever hear of the bandwagon effect?

The larger the chest/cup size of the model, the more difficult it will become to justify banning under the color of preventing/not abetting pedophilia. So, you might see fewer "flat" models, but it's a helluva stretch to claim ALL nudes will be affected w/o changing the justification as is. And your bandwagon effect is about as empty as slippery slope. Just b/c something is done in one country does not mean a cascading effect of all the other countries falling in line w/that policy.

Quote:
also, i still have yet to see proof that A size chests will encourage pedophilia.
So, small chested porn is a fetish of yours?


Now, I want you to remember that no bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor, dumb bastard die for his country.---Patton

There is no room in this country for hyphenated Americanism.---Teddy Roosevelt

I never forget a face, but in your case I'll make an exception.---Groucho

And if you all get killed, I'll piss on your graves.---Shaman Urdnot

How would you like to own a little bit of my foot in your ass.---Red Foreman
Totenkopf is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 06-08-2010, 11:34 PM   #32
kipperthefrog
Veteran
 
kipperthefrog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Blue Hawaii
Posts: 846
Quote:
Originally Posted by Totenkopf View Post

So, small chested porn is a fetish of yours?
no, i just say that consenting adults know what they are doing regardless of bodyshape. there is no evidence that it does harm, and there is no absolute definition of "too small".

your argument above is fallacious in 2 ways: 1st its an ad homineim: attack the person rather than the argument. 2nd, it s a red herring. you can't compete with the argument at hand and can't provide evidence that it encourages pedophilia, so you create a distraction argument.


they will ban other things. all they need is an excuse. it doesnt have to be the same excuse. they can use whatever excuse they find.



Last edited by kipperthefrog; 06-08-2010 at 11:59 PM.
kipperthefrog is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 06-09-2010, 11:45 AM   #33
Totenkopf
English spoken in What
 
Totenkopf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: What?
Posts: 4,787
Imperialist Meatbags Guild Member The Walking Carpets Guild Member Forum Veteran 
First, kip, you need to lighten up a little. It was a joke, as indicated by the smiley. Second, your argument is basically nothing but conjecture. I already stated that they would need an "excuse" other than working vs pedophilia to ban fuller figured porn. But you've already ceaselessly engaged in your slippery slope fallacy throughout this discussion. You've yet to prove anything other than that small chested porn faces a stumbling block in Australia (nowhere else). Your argument, such as it is, is fraught w/little more than alarmism. They can already ban/try to ban these things now. Big deal. Your implied contention that even C to D cup sized porn is imperiled by "too small" is not credible enough to be taken seriously.

As to your red herring charge, I never contended that it encouraged pedophilia, thus had nothing to prove. If your bandwagon affect had any real weight to it, there are already countries that ban porn or certain aspects of porn (Japan for instance, where pubic hair in a pic has been/is verboten), yet there's a wealth of it to be found elsewhere.


Now, I want you to remember that no bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor, dumb bastard die for his country.---Patton

There is no room in this country for hyphenated Americanism.---Teddy Roosevelt

I never forget a face, but in your case I'll make an exception.---Groucho

And if you all get killed, I'll piss on your graves.---Shaman Urdnot

How would you like to own a little bit of my foot in your ass.---Red Foreman
Totenkopf is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 06-10-2010, 09:10 AM   #34
edlib
Close to the Edge
 
edlib's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Boston, MA., USA
Posts: 9,435
Current Game: DiRT 3; Forza 4
Hot Topic Starter 10 year veteran! Forum Veteran 
History shows that prohibition of any kind rarely has the intended effect. It drives the people who want the banned item(s) underground. There it's controlled (and brings profit to) criminal elements, who have zero qualms about providing to their customers exactly what they want.

In the history of porn, the most deviant stuff was/ is always produced in the most restrictive societies. If you want to control porn and protect your society, the banning it is pretty much the very worst thing you could ever hope to do.

But as long as there are human beings, there will be porn. I'm not worried that it's going away any time soon, anywhere.


Native XWA.Netter (Nutter?)
edlib is online now   you may: quote & reply,
Old 06-10-2010, 11:01 PM   #35
Kurgan
Headhunter
 
Kurgan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 1997
Location: The Dawn of Time
Posts: 18,322
LFN Staff Member 10 year veteran! 
I see your point, but still, legalization also has the effect of increasing (often) participation, since a lot of people who wouldn't do something, because of the risk of getting caught (or attached stigma of "breaking the law") is gone. So like for the "drug legalization" argument, basically a lot more people will "try it at least once" if it's legal, vs. if it's not (even with the "naughty" factor).

Now I'm speaking generally and I know the topic, but you can't really argue that something should be legal simply because banning it will "only drive it under ground." For example I'm sure few folks here would advocate legalizing actual child porn, but the fact is that you could still use the "it'll only be underground and people will still do it" argument. So it's not a perfect argument, because it could lead to simply saying everything should be legal, regardless (and anarchism has its own problems).

I think the point here is that the sort of people who are attracted to underage porn (even "fake" child porn) in the first place have some psychological issues to begin with. Is there really going to suddenly open up a huge "underground" market for porn with 18+ women with "small breasts" to appeal to this market if it is banned?


Download JK2 maps for JA Server|BOOT CAMP!|Strategic Academy|
(JA Server: 108.178.55.189:29070)


"The Concussion Rifle is the weapon of a Jedi Knight Player, an elegant weapon, from a more civilized community." - Kyle Katarn
Kurgan is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 06-10-2010, 11:34 PM   #36
edlib
Close to the Edge
 
edlib's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Boston, MA., USA
Posts: 9,435
Current Game: DiRT 3; Forza 4
Hot Topic Starter 10 year veteran! Forum Veteran 
No idea.

I was primarily addressing the "slippery slope" idea that this could lead to the removal of ALL adult entertainment from a society... which is impossible, knowing human nature for what it is.

If it isn't street legal... then it will still be readily available for those who really wish to get it.

I was mainly just putting it out there that many have tried... and failed... to enact "total" bans on things they deem morally objectionable.

I really don't believe for a second that enacting this particular ban will eventually lead to a ban of all legally available porn down under (or anywhere.) But even if it did, porn really wouldn't go away.

What would remain in the underground might actually morph into something far more extreme and disturbing, having the complete opposite effect of what the ban was there to originally do away with, as is often evidenced by the history of sexually repressive societies.


Native XWA.Netter (Nutter?)
edlib is online now   you may: quote & reply,
Old 06-10-2010, 11:41 PM   #37
Kurgan
Headhunter
 
Kurgan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 1997
Location: The Dawn of Time
Posts: 18,322
LFN Staff Member 10 year veteran! 
The other thing is, I don't see how banning one type or "genre" (if you will) of porn will make a society "sexually repressive" (what does that even mean?).

Certainly if you're talking about child molestation, prostitution, incest and rape, those things occur in even the most "liberal" and "open" societies.

The slippery slope claim indicates that IF we allow this small ban, it will lead to bigger bans, and eventually freedom itself will be threatened.

The other slippery slope emerging here is that if we ban it, it will lead to increased problems as it is driven further and further underground.

This "history" would be interesting to see, because every society is different, and we can't necessarily predict how a law would affect one society vs. a totally different one in a different time period. Many societies have similar laws and totally different proportions of these problems (or different ones).

On a related subject, it would be interesting to see what would happen if all porn was replaced with computer generated porn (so it wouldn't be "live" anymore with real people having sex). We have the technology know so such a thing would be possible. Would it be as objectionable? Obviously it would to many people, but at the same time a big part of the objection to it is not just the effect it may have on people or the comodification of sex, but perpetuation of exploitation victimization deeply rooted in the system, where any "line" between it and prostitution is imaginary. I mean, people get mad about the plight of people in other dangerous professions or sweat shops, but porn isn't bad because it's about sex (capitalist sex?).

I realize that's branching off into what could be other topics and debates, but I just wanted to throw that in there.

IF your reason for objecting to this is because you think it will lead to loss of freedom, that's falling prey to the slippery slope fallacy. Ditto if you think banning something will just make it fester underground (so we shouldn't ban it, because it will be worse to do so, as if this is some kind of guarantee). The "how small is too small" thing is a much better argument. Not everyone develops at the same rate. However generally speaking, a nude female lacking pubic hair and possessing a "flat" chest combined with a petite figure would appear child-like, even if she's over age. The selection of such actresses for porn would imply a conscious desire to appeal to those with pedophilia attractions. One might compare this to marketing brands of alcohol directly to alcoholics (but worse). Maybe like marketing violent video games directly to sociopaths. Allowing such loose standards might make it harder to prosecute actual cases of underage porn, too.

I think it's bad enough that women in society are pressured to get breast implants and other radical elective surgery to meet some (male) standard of beauty, and I'm not saying I'd be happy to hear that there would be an increase in porn actors getting implants. But at the same time, an increased demand for flat chested models would imply they're appealing to sinister, psychologically unstable demographics. Is the ability to profit from such people really such an important thing? I think that's really what's at stake rather than some principle of "freedom." I think kids should be free from sexual predators. I don't think there's any research to show that such people will offend less because they have access to porn (even fantasy porn) projecting their deviant desires.


Download JK2 maps for JA Server|BOOT CAMP!|Strategic Academy|
(JA Server: 108.178.55.189:29070)


"The Concussion Rifle is the weapon of a Jedi Knight Player, an elegant weapon, from a more civilized community." - Kyle Katarn
Kurgan is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 06-10-2010, 11:46 PM   #38
Lynk Former
internet hate machine
 
Lynk Former's Avatar
 
Status: Administrator
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Australia
Posts: 18,978
10 year veteran! The Walking Carpets Guild Officer Imperialist Meatbags Guild Officer LF Jester 
*is Australian*

The internet makes all of what they're trying to do completely pointless.,, and the whole internet filter thing they're trying to implement won't stop any of this either.

The only way they're going to have any real control in terms of censorship is if they shut down the internet for the entire country and start mass arresting people who they suspect of... whatever.

Not going to happen.

All of you are going about this the wrong way. It's not about the curtailing of freedoms or anything like that. They can't make this sort of thing stick in a world where information is exchanged so freely. Nothing they can do will have any effect except for upsetting people who don't like the idea of having their freedoms trampled on.

The real issue in Australia ,at the moment, is the government wasting money and resources on silly laws and projects like the internet filter so they can appease Christian groups to get more votes.


And that's that.

Lynk Former is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 06-11-2010, 12:02 AM   #39
edlib
Close to the Edge
 
edlib's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Boston, MA., USA
Posts: 9,435
Current Game: DiRT 3; Forza 4
Hot Topic Starter 10 year veteran! Forum Veteran 
Not just one type... but several people in the thread have hinted that this could be just the tip of the iceberg of a coming future age of Victorianism, where most, if not all porn will be repressed.

I don't believe that could ever happen... but it would be an ugly thing if it did. That's the main point I was addressing. The stuff that came out of the Victorian England porn underground often seems pretty twisted, even by today's standards.

Either way: small breasted adult actresses will still continue to work, and the products this ban is trying to do away with will still be available after this ban goes into effect... even if they are not legally for sale on the local vid-store shelves.

All I'm saying is just to be totally realistic about that.

And since it will be an underground product, don't be surprised if the producers of these films don't start taking them to new extremes to satisfy the audience. After all: they will probably get sent to jail for the same duration for making an extreme vid as if they make a tame one. The fans will probably pay much more for an extreme one, however.

Or maybe they'll all just get implants and keep working mainstream...

I'm not saying to not do the ban... but just don't be surprised if the opposite of what you intended to cure is the result.


Native XWA.Netter (Nutter?)
edlib is online now   you may: quote & reply,
Old 06-11-2010, 12:35 AM   #40
Kurgan
Headhunter
 
Kurgan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 1997
Location: The Dawn of Time
Posts: 18,322
LFN Staff Member 10 year veteran! 
Victorian England is long gone. Societies in the West have changed drastically since then. So we can't really compare it, now can we?

Porn is a commercial industry out for profit. That's the bottom line. The existence of Porn doesn't make a society free or unfree (both types of societies have it). Once that's understood...

As for the idea that banning it would be pointless, well no, not really. Maybe there would be people finding it on the internet, but let's see:

1) You'd have no porn theaters or peepshows showing it.

2) No adult book stores showing it.

3) You'd prosecute Australian based websites that sold or showed it, which can be done through ISPs quite easily (wouldn't stop people who got foreign domains to work from clandestinely).

4) You could stop it on sites like Amazon and Ebay that have country coded versions that respect local laws anyway.

5) No hotels/motels/inns or truck stops could show it.

6) No TV channels (again, country coded, including cable and pay-per-view) could show it.

7) No video rental/purchase chains could show it or rent/sell it. Ditto for book shops, gas stations or new stands or dealers that do pictorial depictions.

8) You couldn't advertise it on billboards or in the back of tabloids or other magazines (and no banner ads for it on Aussie based websites).

You could also impose bans on importing the materials in from other places where it was legal.

Finally, you could issue rewards for catching those who bring it in illegally.

That would cut off a LOT of the supply. Not everything, mind you. But again, the market for this stuff is small in the first place. The idea is to cut down on victimizations in the industry, not encourage sexual deviants by enabling them, and send the message that this stuff isn't acceptable in their society. It's not because people are afraid of sex in general, anti-freedom, anti-woman or anti-porn in general.

Doesn't mean they'll eliminate it, but that's a bit like saying rape should be legal because people still rape, even when it's illegal and prosecuted.

(Again, projecting the discussion from just "how small is too small" to porn that appeals to people who want to view participants who LOOK underage).

Sure, I guess an underage person could use a fake ID and get implants and "work mainstream." That's an argument for doing away with the commercial sex, period, not just for banning (or at least restricting) "looks underage" porn.


Download JK2 maps for JA Server|BOOT CAMP!|Strategic Academy|
(JA Server: 108.178.55.189:29070)


"The Concussion Rifle is the weapon of a Jedi Knight Player, an elegant weapon, from a more civilized community." - Kyle Katarn
Kurgan is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Post a new thread. Add a reply to this thread. Indicate all threads in this forum as read. Subscribe to this forum. RSS feed: this forum RSS feed: all forums
Go Back   LucasForums > Network > JediKnight Series > Community > Senate Chambers > Austrailia bans porn with small breasts

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:08 AM.

LFNetwork, LLC ©2002-2011 - All rights reserved.
Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.