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Old 07-23-2010, 05:41 AM   #81
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Old 07-23-2010, 06:10 AM   #82
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Good sir, simply for that post of yours, you made me a happy man for a brief period of time.


Meh, screw you.

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Old 07-23-2010, 11:08 AM   #83
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Wow, I think without the black outlines, that Guybrush might fit right in.

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Slightly off-topic but I have to correct your misapprehension here - the Grand Theft Auto series has always been made in the UK, even before Rockstar became Rockstar. It's an entirely British-made franchise. It's not outsourced, it's just made here.
Well it's still not entirely correct. Thrik was talking about Rockstar Leeds, which used to be Mobius games, which did not create the original Grand Theft Auto series. I don't know much about DMA games, so I guess that was my fault for assuming they were based in the US, but now I'm confused as towhy Thrik was using them as example of good outsourcing in the first place? Unless whatever happened with Take Two means that Rockstar is based in New York now even though DMA in the UK used to be the center of it's existence?

I don't know it didn't really seem to have much to do with Lucasfilm Singapore in the first place, but even either is the the case (form NYC to the UK or UK to UK), it still really doesn't give light to outsourcing to countries with lower income disparity either way.
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Old 07-23-2010, 11:54 AM   #84
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Oh, I was just using it as an example of outsourcing done primarily due to them being the best studio for the job rather than for financial/whatever reasons. I wasn't really thinking too hard about the specific set-up of the operation, though I was aware GTA has always primarily come from the Scots.


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Old 07-23-2010, 12:27 PM   #85
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Wow, I think without the black outlines, that Guybrush might fit right in.
My thoughts exactly. The style is a lot more coherent both with the original sprites and the backgrounds. It would simply need the propper paintjob (and obviously the rest of the frames) to fit in with the rest of the characters.

Well, a man can dream.


Meh, screw you.
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Old 07-23-2010, 01:03 PM   #86
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Yeah, I like how that Guybrush fits hits smug personality in the second game. In the first game, he was much more of a fancy pants type, I guess LucasArts didn't want to stray too far into maybe what most people imagined Guybrush from MI2 to look like as it might be weird to go from that to CMI?

I'm still kind of weirded out by how Guybrush looks in CMI but oh well.
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Old 07-23-2010, 01:10 PM   #87
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Well, I guess the end of MI2 was just so weird they decided to reset most things while keeping some basic continuity. Guybrush's personality is a lot more bland on CMI. His naiveté is lost and so is his acquired arrogance. This is one of the reasons why I mostly disliked CMI and the following titles. I just can't laugh at Guybrush anymore.


Meh, screw you.
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Old 07-23-2010, 01:16 PM   #88
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Wow, I think without the black outlines, that Guybrush might fit right in.

Remember, LucasArts would have made a 3d model of it.
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Old 07-23-2010, 01:24 PM   #89
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Remember, LucasArts would have made a 3d model of it.
Well it could've been done without 3D, like the rest of the characters. Not all sprites were traced from 3D like the current version of Guybrush. One would simply have to cut some inbetweens, which frankly, would've actually looked better when other (non-traced) characters are on screen. The bridge between levels of detail in the character animation is pretty noteworthy most of the times.


Meh, screw you.
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Old 07-23-2010, 04:40 PM   #90
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Yep, Melkalis is right, they didn't use a 3D Guybrush for a lot of the animations. Even still, it doesn't look like they animated his face much, so they could have just drawn it on later.

They still had to draw out all the cartoony or weird frames (Guybrush flipping his wig, eyes bugging out, mouth dropping, etc.) this time around that their 3D models would have been too much work to make do in comparison to just drawing it.
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Old 07-23-2010, 05:07 PM   #91
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Yep, Melkalis is right, they didn't use a 3D Guybrush for a lot of the animations. Even still, it doesn't look like they animated his face much, so they could have just drawn it on later.

They still had to draw out all the cartoony or weird frames (Guybrush flipping his wig, eyes bugging out, mouth dropping, etc.) this time around that their 3D models would have been too much work to make do in comparison to just drawing it.
Pretty much this. Here are some of the two ugliest traced sprites I found. From a falling animation.



Like gerbil said, they didn't even bother to animate his face while on the ground. He's just staring blankly at the void. Like if his face wasn't expressionless enough, they didn't bother to change it a bit for a couple of sprites. Talk about a rushed job.


Meh, screw you.
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Old 07-23-2010, 07:20 PM   #92
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His naiveté is lost and so is his acquired arrogance. This is one of the reasons why I mostly disliked CMI and the following titles. I just can't laugh at Guybrush anymore.
I'm always a bit suspicious of people who complain about CMI onwards, because of the possibility of them feeling the need to be loyal to old school adventure games-style or Ron Gilbert. With that in mind: I think, if anything, Guybrush became a bit more naive in CMI. In MI1 and 2 he felt like an avatar, at times, or maybe was a bit more deceptive, in that he would either completely flatter or insult Elaine to get what he wanted, for example; whereas in CMI up to Chapter 4 of TMI he had a one-road way of doing things.

When working on TMI, Dave Grossman went up to the writers mid-season and basically asked them to make Guybrush a bit more like he was in MI; for them to, in other words, "write more like Tim Schafer". That's why he was a bit more sarcastic and edgy, especially in Chapter 5 on the ship. Either way, I still like CMI the most in the series, but it's closely followed by large swathes of TMI and MI2.

If a MI6 is made, it'll probably be very close to MI2 in tone, actually. I hope so. I want Jake Rodkin and Sean Vanaman to also work on it...We'll see.
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Old 07-23-2010, 07:31 PM   #93
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See. I think this version looks awful.
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Old 07-23-2010, 08:12 PM   #94
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I'm always a bit suspicious of people who complain about CMI onwards, because of the possibility of them feeling the need to be loyal to old school adventure games-style or Ron Gilbert. With that in mind: I think, if anything, Guybrush became a bit more naive in CMI. In MI1 and 2 he felt like an avatar, at times, or maybe was a bit more deceptive, in that he would either completely flatter or insult Elaine to get what he wanted, for example; whereas in CMI up to Chapter 4 of TMI he had a one-road way of doing things.
Point is there's not a clear character development bridge from MI2 to CMI. The evolution from MI to MI2 sounded very, very natural despite radical. Naive insecure person gets a huge egoboost after randomly performing a heroic feat. He thinks he's at the top of the world, yet it's true wimpish and somewhat cowardly nature still remains inside. Despite being more arrogant on MI2, Guybrush's actions also seem a lot more insecure. Now at the beginning of CMI Guybrush expresses his disappointment regarding Big Whoop. Alright so there's some regret, that clears away the arrogance in a somewhat sloppy, yet acceptable way. But be it for (and please don't discredit me for what I am about to say) Dominic Armato's emotionless voice acting or by the overly-relaxed looks of the character's animations, the coward and naive nature seems to be gone and replaced with what I think it is random sillyness. I feel it's not just the writing. It's the altogether ensemble of the elements that compose the character in CMI. It's just not as appealing as the one in the 1st two original games and hardly feels connected to them. And it's not just the nostalgia talking. I played CMI with the same excitement of the originals and found it to be a lot less engaging despite being larger and having some good puzzles. I do however take it as a nice try, taken that it was created by completely different team, so I gotta cut 'em some slack and give 'em some credit.

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When working on TMI, Dave Grossman went up to the writers mid-season and basically asked them to make Guybrush a bit more like he was in MI; for them to, in other words, "write more like Tim Schafer". That's why he was a bit more sarcastic and edgy, especially in Chapter 5 on the ship. Either way, I still like CMI the most in the series, but it's closely followed by large swathes of TMI and MI2.

If a MI6 is made, it'll probably be very close to MI2 in tone, actually. I hope so. I want Jake Rodkin and Sean Vanaman to also work on it...We'll see.
I can't argue on this point for I haven't got the chance to play TMI yet.

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See. I think this version looks awful.
You're not seeing beyond the outlines. Imagine it rendered the same way the other characters are, with slightly more angular lines and less plain colours. You'll see it blends a lot better with the background than the current version. From a cartoon analysis standpoint, and not just aesthetic tastes, this version would be ideal if properly rendered.


Meh, screw you.

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Old 07-24-2010, 10:17 AM   #95
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No, he looks like a homeless person. Sure, his face is a million times more expressive, but there has to be some compromise so that he doesn't look like he sleeps on the street.

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Old 07-24-2010, 10:52 AM   #96
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That looks terrible. Nothing like Guybrush. I always hated that design and I'm glad they scrapped it.


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Old 07-24-2010, 12:21 PM   #97
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Yeah I agree. Really don't like that rendition, and I'm fairly sure it's not because I can't see past the outlines.


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Old 07-24-2010, 12:41 PM   #98
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I quite like the clothes, but the expression reminds me of something... http://i.ehow.co.uk/images/a02/6g/3q...on-200X200.jpg

Just goes to show you can't please everyone with whatever version you use, I suppose.
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Old 07-24-2010, 01:32 PM   #99
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Just goes to show you can't please everyone with whatever version you use, I suppose.
This exactly.

Some people love the early version of Guybrush, and some people hate it (personally, I don't like it either). There's no way to please everyone, so they just went with what they liked best, I guess. I have no issues with the Guybrush they went with in MI2:SE. It wasn't perfect or anything, but it fit his basic profile and looked pretty much fine.


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Old 07-24-2010, 02:59 PM   #100
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Aight, whaddya folks say about this another early version then?



Meh, screw you.
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Old 07-24-2010, 03:01 PM   #101
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Bit too tall and old in my reckoning... good link to the CMI guybrush, but not very close to the original sprite. Same eyes as EMI Guybrush, which is not a good thing -- like staring into the heart of a black hole.
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Old 07-24-2010, 03:44 PM   #102
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I like the V3 body, but the face seems completely lifeless, and the CMI hair does not work in the SE style.

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Old 07-24-2010, 04:18 PM   #103
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Technically fine. Maybe a bit too mature looking. Stiff body.

Same as everyone, I guess: Not terrible, not amazing.

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Old 07-24-2010, 04:24 PM   #104
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That version of Guybrush looks like he would try to sell me ecstasy on a beach.


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Old 07-24-2010, 04:59 PM   #105
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This is pretty great. This design wasn't fantastic, but when they released the set of images, it was definitely the one that struck me as hewing closest to the original sprite design. The colors sell it a bit more. The designs following it looked progressively less and less like Guybrush, resulting in horseface above, and the final kind of anime-looking yellow-haired bloke.

Considering Guybrush WAS essentially homeless at this time, I don't think "It looks too much like a homeless person" is really a criticism. Hell, look at the original sprite, his coat is filthy and in tatters. He probably did sleep in the street, or in worse places, at that point in his life. If anything, the final design is a bit too clean-cut.
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Old 07-24-2010, 05:23 PM   #106
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I always thought the V3 Guybrush was on the right track. I always pictured him as rather thin and wiry. The face was definitley too creepy and mature, but it was also in the right ballpark since they seemed to be going for a sort of CMI look in the first SE as well with the long face and whatnot. I think with some tweaking V3 would have been my favorite.


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Old 07-24-2010, 05:39 PM   #107
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This is pretty great. This design wasn't fantastic, but when they released the set of images, it was definitely the one that struck me as hewing closest to the original sprite design. The colors sell it a bit more. The designs following it looked progressively less and less like Guybrush, resulting in horseface above, and the final kind of anime-looking yellow-haired bloke.

Considering Guybrush WAS essentially homeless at this time, I don't think "It looks too much like a homeless person" is really a criticism. Hell, look at the original sprite, his coat is filthy and in tatters. He probably did sleep in the street, or in worse places, at that point in his life. If anything, the final design is a bit too clean-cut.
Filthy rich you mean. Atleast for a while.

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Old 07-25-2010, 06:19 AM   #108
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Filthy rich you mean. Atleast for a while.
Filthy rich nasty smelling, grog-swilling PIRATE you mean. I don't think hygiene would be one of his priorities. As for the cash he says himself "It took me a lot of time to get all this". Probably means he wen't through some serious hard work and straight to questing for the Big Whoop.


Meh, screw you.

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Old 07-25-2010, 07:11 AM   #109
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Hell, look at the original sprite, his coat is filthy and in tatters. He probably did sleep in the street, or in worse places, at that point in his life. If anything, the final design is a bit too clean-cut.
Huh?

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Old 07-25-2010, 09:59 AM   #110
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Huh?


If you look at the source sprite in one of the above posted images, or at this image of the 'big' Guybrush sprite (which is less ambiguous, so you can tell they aren't folds), you can see Guybrush's jacket is tattered along the bottom. There are a series of vertical rips through which you can see his black pants.

Calling his jacket 'filthy' was conjecture. But MI2's Guybrush was certainly not a sharp-dressed man.
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Old 07-26-2010, 12:06 PM   #111
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Haha, I guess you guys really aren't into V.1. It's still my favorite. V.3 is too stately like for my tastes. I get the feeling V.1 would have been nicer if the eyes were further apart, but I'm really liking that build and nasty stubble. I think it conveys the tough pirate facade nicely.

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This is pretty great. This design wasn't fantastic, but when they released the set of images, it was definitely the one that struck me as hewing closest to the original sprite design. The colors sell it a bit more. The designs following it looked progressively less and less like Guybrush, resulting in horseface above, and the final kind of anime-looking yellow-haired bloke.
Yeah, so not into the horseface. I mean, it worked within CMI in a way, even if Guybrush's look was changed somewhat drastically. I just don't think every Monkey Island game since CMI should attempt bridge the gap in his look, which I feel everyone has been trying to do since, Telltale included.
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Old 07-26-2010, 03:53 PM   #112
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"Booyah! Look out, LeChuck! Here comes Guybrush Threepwood's glowing sword of hot monkey vengeance!"
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Old 07-26-2010, 07:35 PM   #113
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Calling his jacket 'filthy' was conjecture. But MI2's Guybrush was certainly not a sharp-dressed man.
He's a PIRATE... I don't think he sleeps in the street!

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Old 07-27-2010, 05:46 AM   #114
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How did Guybrush get to Scabb Island anyway? There's no sign of a ship or anything. Was this mentioned in the game? (Not played more than 15 mins of the SE yet.)


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Old 07-27-2010, 06:22 AM   #115
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We're assuming a ship dropped him off and left.

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Old 07-27-2010, 07:04 AM   #116
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Another minor annoyance I just remembered: Dominic's take on his conversation with Rap Scalion... I always thought it was quite a sombre moment in the game (and the music really helped add that atmosphere), but Guybrush is extremely bubbly and happy. I would have preferred it to be a little more low-key, not depressing, just sombre.

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Old 07-27-2010, 07:12 AM   #117
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For that matter, how did he get to Mêlée? Roped himself a couple of sea turtles.
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Old 07-27-2010, 07:17 AM   #118
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In the Escape from Monkey Island intro, it's suggested that Guybrush swam, or was ship-wrecked, before Monkey Island 1... in any case he crawls onto land gasping "I want to be a pirate."

He also crawls onto Monkey Island in that way later on in the game -- and in SoMI he was shot out of a cannon. So Guybrush doesn't usually arrive on islands in the conventional way (the biggest exception being the island hopping in Mi2).
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Old 07-27-2010, 08:53 AM   #119
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Well, you know how they say in dreams you never remember how you got there... ;


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Old 07-27-2010, 09:57 AM   #120
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This is all rubbish. His parents dropped him off there. We all know that
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