Overrated Garbage

[Astrotoy7]

Originally Posted by VeniVidiVicous

I watched it free online and I still managed to feel cheated.

lolz... If there is anything to be appreciated about that film, it's the visuals. Watching it in that context, what else do you expect to get out of it other than disappointment?

mtfbwya

[VeniVidiVicous]

Originally Posted by Astrotoy7

lolz... If there is anything to be appreciated about that film, it's the visuals. Watching it in that context, what else do you expect to get out of it other than disappointment?

I'm sorry but the plot was so unoriginal it was painful.

No amount of fancy visuals would have made this film better for me.

[Pho3nix]

Simple is good sometimes.

[Astrotoy7]

Originally Posted by VeniVidiVicous

I'm sorry but the plot was so unoriginal it was painful.

No amount of fancy visuals would have made this film better for me.

I dare you to find anything that is truly original. Key dramatic themes were being rehashed by Ancient dramatists, modern film makers hence are increasingly relying on spectacle or a convoluted context+presentation(eg. Inception) to impress audiences.

Avatar is hardly my favourite film, but it was never meant to be a dramatic masterpiece - watching it expecting anything other than a visual spectacle is wishful thinking.

You want originality, good script writing, go get this! Better yet, try catch a performance of it


mtfbwya

[DeadYorick]

Originally Posted by Astrotoy7

I dare you to find anything that is truly original.

Its not so much originality that is the question, it's what they do with the ideas. Like fleshing out the characters or making the setting more realistic/over the top. There are always ways to make an idea your own, and I don't think anyone saw that with Avatar. They saw a film that had a 20 year old plotline.

[Darth InSidious]

Originally Posted by Salzella

If it ain't broke...

But is is broken, so very very broken.

[Alexrd]

Avatar
Steam
Revan
Marvel
Apple
Karen Traviss
PlayStation
Mario
Obama (Overrated, but not "garbage")
Comunism
Left-wing
Anime
"Twilight vampire"-like movies
"Twilight vampire"-like novels

I guess that's it. I'll add more if I remember...

[DeadYorick]

Originally Posted by Alexrd

Avatar
Revan
Anime
"Twilight vampire"-like movies
"Twilight vampire"-like novels

I guess that's it. I'll add more if I remember...

I have to agree with these. Revan is extremely overrated, Twilight is also overrated.

If you dislike Twilight you might like this film.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zlrL3LzjlDo

But I have to disagree that Communism is "Overrated". Sure it is now but bare in mind to the fear back in the 20th century. Marxism was on the rise and Russia had become a Super Power rivaling the United States. Everyone was fearing Nuclear War. Now Communism is Taboo and everyone associates anything Socialism with it. Left Wing media like South Park I only deem overrated because of how explicit it is with the message. In a TV show such as Beavis and Butthead their social commentary was just worked into a joke, not made an entire episode devoted to it.

Would you rather have Penn and Teller, on the air, or Fox News?

[Darth333]

Originally Posted by Astrotoy7

I dare you to find anything that is truly original. Key dramatic themes were being rehashed by Ancient dramatists, modern film makers hence are increasingly relying on spectacle or a convoluted context+presentation(eg. Inception) to impress audiences.

It's not so much about originality (the theme has been reused many times but even a not so original story can become interesting if it is well developed) but here the characters (the smurfs, the smurfette and Gargamel and his stupid followers ) were just caricatures of typical action movie stereotypes (who are themselves caricatures of other stereotypes), the dialogs and the story were there just as an excuse to present the visuals and the whole thing was stretched over 2.5 hours for no reason other than to present an orgy of visual effects (again)...and they just announced a long version as the initial one wasn't long enough It would have been an ok 60 minutes film for the tech aspect but more than that was just painful to me

[Lynk Former]

What D3 said.

[Drunkside]

Originally Posted by Det. Bart Lasiter and adamqd

ehhh... just depends on what you get, but modern equipment is less prone to breaking, allows for higher gain at lower volumes, etc, etc. also, dunno if you've ever done acid, but him being able to play in that state really speaks to his comfort level and connection to his instrument imo

Jimi Hendrix is not overrated IMHO, People say "well Joe Satriani is better than Hendrix" technically yes, but he started playing because of jimi... to quote a friend of mine: you cannot IMHO successfully argue that any have had a greater impact upon the development of the instrument's role in popular music than Hendrix had. He changed the face of what was possible with the instrument, what the vocabulary could include, what could be explored and accomplished, the role of a lead guitar, what rhythm guitar could do, etc.

* Innovation. Jimi was one of the first to achieve some of today's standby techniques, including use of feedback as a musical note.
* Songwriting. Even by modern standards, Jimi's songwriting is impressive. It incorporates blues, jazz, and rock in innovative ways - music theory-wise, his songs are an incredibly rich tapestry.
* Tone. It may seem like a small thing, but as a guitar player myself, I know the pain of getting the perfect tone to compliment your music - yet Jimi seems to pull it off with ease. Even today, his guitar tones are some of the most sought-out in history.

Just look at this video, see the comfort and grace he has with the Guitar, its an extension of his very being>>
http://www.veoh.com/collection/s191136/watch/e91146Myh5z8WF"]http://www.veoh.com/collection/s191136/watch/e91146Myh5z8WF"]http://www.veoh.com/collection/s191136/watch/e91146Myh5z8WF

@Det. Bart Lasiter It might also tell a story of him being a frequent user

@adamqd The video doesnt really do the trick, he might be "at home" there in front of the huge crowd but thats exactly what his playing sounds like too, its like he doesnt pay any attention to what he is doing. I dont deny his skills, as i already said, but the kind of religious following he has is just too much.

And thanks for reminding, the next overrated musician im going to name is Joe Satriani. And Steve Vai as well, they are just self-absorbed pricks who think their stuff is cool because its weird for the sake of weirdness. And they are also rather boring soloists, well Steve Vai did some pretty cool licks and the like in one concert i watched on TV a few months ago...

Originally Posted by DeadYorick

http://www.cracked.com/funny-3872-bioware/

This I think will catch your interest. It shows all the patterns Bioware has made in their characters.

There's also this one for plot

http://img189.imageshack.us/i/bwcliches.png/

It also fails to mention Bioware loves to use Macguffins now

Its kinda funny, though its also a rather harsh simplification of the characters in the games. Surely there are a lot of similar characters in bioware´s games (carth/kaidan/the whiny little bastard in DA whose name i cant remember being the most clearly based on one character idea) but there are other types as well like the frog guy in ME2 (goddamn im bad with names right now : ).

[Astor]

Console Wars.

Or more specifically, Xbox 360 vs PS3 arguments. Ultimately futile, utterly childish (although I must admit a long time ago I wasn't above wading into them), and they never, ever, end well.

[DeadYorick]

Originally Posted by Drunkside

Its kinda funny, though its also a rather harsh simplification of the characters in the games. Surely there are a lot of similar characters in bioware´s games (carth/kaidan/the whiny little bastard in DA whose name i cant remember being the most clearly based on one character idea) but there are other types as well like the frog guy in ME2 (goddamn im bad with names right now : ).

-Alistair
-Thane

They just like to point out Bioware reuses a lot of the same character archetypes. But my problem with Thane wasn't that he was a good character or not. But why would you need an assassin for a suicide mission against a bunch of aliens? In fact most of the party members of ME2 didn't make sense, and it sounded like more of a hook to get people interested.

Originally Posted by Astor

Console Wars.

Or more specifically, Xbox 360 vs PS3 arguments. Ultimately futile, utterly childish (although I must admit a long time ago I wasn't above wading into them), and they never, ever, end well.

I liken the Internet to High School, mostly because almost everything I see on it, I saw there. I do remember console wars being very common with the gaming population, specifically early teenagers.

[mimartin]

Overrated Garbage: Bashing BioWare constantly… It has almost become a contact sport it is done so often for the most mundane reasons. Oh the characters are all the same, oh the stories are all similar, oh it isn’t really a RPG… If you don’t like it don’t play it. From all the negative feedback to their games you would think that BioWare was the most hated game developer out there on the verge of going out of business. Yet, their games seem to sale rather well.

I use to think their game sold well because they made a decent game. Now I’m convinced they sale well because the BioWare haters are all buying them so that they have a reason to complain and whine.

[Ping]

Modern-day shooters: Sorry folks, but I just can't get into the shooters they make nowadays, with a few exceptions. It focuses on multiplayer to the point that there's sometimes never a mode to play by yourself. And if it is single-player, like Halo....it's amazingly boring.

[DeadYorick]

Originally Posted by mimartin

I use to think their game sold well because they made a decent game. Now I’m convinced they sale well because the BioWare haters are all buying them so that they have a reason to complain and whine.

People dislike things that are popular, controversy sells.

A big reason why Grand Theft Auto sells is because of the amount of politicians bashing it.

But, nothing is above criticism. As long as the internet is a medium to express doubt toward something, people will speak their opinions. I find it a little odd you would call a certain opinion "overrated" simply because it expresses doubt toward the quality of a product. I enjoyed Bioware's recent games, such as Mass Effect or it's sequel. But I did find things I disliked about them, along with noticing patterns Bioware makes with it's storylines.

Originally Posted by Ping

Modern-day shooters: Sorry folks, but I just can't get into the shooters they make nowadays, with a few exceptions. It focuses on multiplayer to the point that there's sometimes never a mode to play by yourself. And if it is single-player, like Halo....it's amazingly boring.

I remember back in the 90's when every shooter was like Doom.

Developers emulate what is popular. Just like films emulate what previous good films did before them. Future shooters are going to emulate Modern Warfare 2's fast paced "leveling up" style of multiplayer, and spend less time on singleplayer.

Though things will inevitably change back the other way from multiplayer to singleplayer. All that can't be predicted is the time it will take.

[Drunkside]

Originally Posted by DeadYorick

-Alistair
-Thane

They just like to point out Bioware reuses a lot of the same character archetypes. But my problem with Thane wasn't that he was a good character or not. But why would you need an assassin for a suicide mission against a bunch of aliens? In fact most of the party members of ME2 didn't make sense, and it sounded like more of a hook to get people interested.

I always just thought the characters in mass effect 2 are the best military/semi military personnel in the galaxy that agree to go on a crazy suicide mission. The one that didnt make any sense was (again, the names are elusive) the bounty hunter guy. Why would a selfish bastard like him go on a random mission that most likely ends up with him killed just for money? He can get cash from killing animal rights activists for evil space warlords ffs

[Achilles]

Originally Posted by mimartin

Overrated Garbage: Bashing BioWare constantly… It has almost become a contact sport it is done so often for the most mundane reasons.

I suspect that if you replaced "video games" with some other medium and "Bioware" with the name of a company in that industry that receives heaps of praise for churning out that doesn't live up to its hype. I feel like this should almost go without saying in a thread discussing that which is overrated.

How many examples of popular movies that made a ton of money, but thin on story? Books? Popular music with crappy lyrics, etc? Why should video games or video game developers be excluded?

Originally Posted by mimartin

Oh the characters are all the same, oh the stories are all similar, oh it isn’t really a RPG… If you don’t like it don’t play it.

This is sound advice.

However people that care about games tend to get irked when mediocre ones are praised (again, same things goes for music, movies, etc). I'm not sure how "if you don't like it, don't play it" addresses that bit o' human nature.

Originally Posted by mimartin

From all the negative feedback to their games you would think that BioWare was the most hated game developer out there on the verge of going out of business. Yet, their games seem to sale rather well.

Michael Bay has never won an Oscar, yet his movies take in hundreds of millions of dollars.

Uwe Boll is almost universally panned as one of the worst directors in the history of film, yet his project keep getting green-lit.

Yes, Virginia, people really do give a lot of money to pretty, fun things that lack substance.

Originally Posted by mimartin

I use to think their game sold well because they made a decent game. Now I’m convinced they sale well because the BioWare haters are all buying them so that they have a reason to complain and whine.

hehe, that could be.

Though is suspect that it's actually more like I said in a previous post: they know their audience well.

[Alexrd]

Originally Posted by DeadYorick

But I have to disagree that Communism is "Overrated". Sure it is now but bare in mind to the fear back in the 20th century. Marxism was on the rise and Russia had become a Super Power rivaling the United States. Everyone was fearing Nuclear War. Now Communism is Taboo and everyone associates anything Socialism with it.

Not in Portugal. Heck, they even have a seat in the Parliament, here.

Originally Posted by DeadYorick

Would you rather have Penn and Teller, on the air, or Fox News?

Do I have to choose?

[DeadYorick]

Originally Posted by Drunkside

I always just thought the characters in mass effect 2 are the best military/semi military personnel in the galaxy that agree to go on a crazy suicide mission.

If they are the "best military/semi military personnel in the galaxy" what use would an assassin be? Thane isn't supposed to see active combat, he's supposed to use stealth and kill a single target for money. Yet what Bioware projects this as is using him as a combat ready soldier archetype that uses guns in a firefight and biotics.

If anything Kasumi's use of tactical cloak was much more like an "Assassination" technique, and she was a thief.

[Ctrl Alt Del]

Originally Posted by DeadYorick

People dislike things that are popular, controversy sells.

Which leads to my overrated garbage:

Halo Bashing - There's a critic of the franchise everywhere. And what makes me so bad about it is that most people are just echoing other's thoughts about it. Thinking it's bad has become some kind of leet thing.

[Astrotoy7]

Originally Posted by Ctrl Alt Del

Which leads to my overrated garbage:

Halo Bashing - There's a critic of the franchise everywhere. And what makes me so bad about it is that most people are just echoing other's thoughts about it. Thinking it's bad has become some kind of leet thing.

I must admit I've never played it! I do have a 360 now, so may check it out one day - see what all the hoopla is about - and then get FPS-nausea headspins 5 mins later

I also really liked mimartins comments on the infective fad that seems to be BioWare bashing. Kudos!

Until said bashers have made an epic and original RPG themselves, they should dial down the hatred to a simple expression of whether they like the game or not, not write a perpetual manifesto on The Inherent Cliches and Patterns of Video Game RPGs. BioWare has provided many with literally hundreds of hours of relatively immersive story and fun gameplay - which is sort of what you'd want from a game - and not necessarily anything more grandiose, far reaching or spiritual

mtfbwya

[Lynk Former]

I think the real reason people don't like Halo so much is that the series has claimed that it has done pretty much everything first when the truth is that they've just grabbed elements from other FPS titles along the way and have claimed it to be their own original "first time ever" experience... pretty much same goes for the story as well actually lol.

[Miltiades]

What's with all this use of the term "basher"? What, either we should praise developers into heaven or just shut up? I'm sure there are people out there who just copy stuff other people said to bore developers into the ground, but as far as I'm concerned, the criticism I have been reading is all justified.

Look, some of these games, including Mass Effect 2 and Halo, are great for what they are, but for what they pretend to be (or what the reviewers sometimes make it out to be) they fall short.

[Drunkside]

Originally Posted by DeadYorick

If they are the "best military/semi military personnel in the galaxy" what use would an assassin be? Thane isn't supposed to see active combat, he's supposed to use stealth and kill a single target for money. Yet what Bioware projects this as is using him as a combat ready soldier archetype that uses guns in a firefight and biotics.

If anything Kasumi's use of tactical cloak was much more like an "Assassination" technique, and she was a thief.

You definetely have a point there, but at least thane can use sniper rifles He does beat 3 people to death the first time you see him though, so he would seem like an effective fighter as well :

But actually ME doesnt have active combat, at least not big battles and stuff like that. Why couldnt an assassin fare in small scale tactical combat?

[Trench]

Video games. We should all go outside.

[Sabretooth]

Originally Posted by Ctrl Alt Del

Halo Bashing - There's a critic of the franchise everywhere. And what makes me so bad about it is that most people are just echoing other's thoughts about it. Thinking it's bad has become some kind of leet thing.

Well, you only have to look at the swathes of Xbox 360 gamers who consider the BEST GAME EVAR.

See: Yin-Yang

Originally Posted by mimartin

Overrated Garbage: Bashing BioWare constantly… It has almost become a contact sport it is done so often for the most mundane reasons. Oh the characters are all the same, oh the stories are all similar, oh it isn’t really a RPG… If you don’t like it don’t play it. From all the negative feedback to their games you would think that BioWare was the most hated game developer out there on the verge of going out of business. Yet, their games seem to sale rather well.

I use to think their game sold well because they made a decent game. Now I’m convinced they sale well because the BioWare haters are all buying them so that they have a reason to complain and whine.

Oh Mimi, you irresistible troll you. You almost had me writing a real reply, too!

[Astor]

Originally Posted by Sabretooth

Well, you only have to look at the swathes of Xbox 360 gamers who consider the BEST GAME EVAR.

What about Gears of War (yet more overrated garbage, IMO)?

OMGCHAINSAWRIFLE!

[mimartin]

Originally Posted by Sabretooth

Oh Mimi, you irresistible troll you. You almost had me writing a real reply, too!

So instead you go straight to ad hominem. How droll, how very droll.

Originally Posted by Miltiades

What's with all this use of the term "basher"? What, either we should praise developers into heaven or just shut up?

Not what I wrote at all. I’m all for valid criticism, but whining in ever gaming thread on the forum gets a little old. When I am reading a thread about Fallout: New Vegas, someone’s testimony about the evils of BioWare is not what I’m interested in reading.

[Ctrl Alt Del]

Originally Posted by Working Class Hero

--Europe-you're becoming more obsolete every day

Europe as an unity actually isn't. That's why they're bent on forming a cohesive group (the EU), thus remaining a decisive and relevant power on today's world.

[Miltiades]

Originally Posted by mimartin

When I am reading a thread about Fallout: New Vegas, someone’s testimony about the evils of BioWare is not what I’m interested in reading.

I agree with that. After all, that's what the Mass Effect 2 thread is for.

[Achilles]

Originally Posted by Astrotoy7

Until said bashers have made an epic and original RPG themselves...

I don't accept that you're seriously suggesting this. Really?

Last time I checked, the idea that everyone was entitled to an opinion was not in question.

Originally Posted by Astrotoy7

...they should dial down the hatred to a simple expression of whether they like the game or not, not write a perpetual manifesto on The Inherent Cliches and Patterns of Video Game RPGs.

And speaking of opinions...

I don't think it's "hatred" to point out that a developer which is lauded for innovative/original storytelling actually does neither. That's called "calling someone out on their bull****". No doubt some people are nicer about it than others, but still.

Bioware has come right out and said, "yep, we use the same formula because a) it works and b) everyone inherently loves the Campbellian monomyth". We get it. They get it. Perhaps the ones that don't get it are the fanboys?

Again, not that this makes their games "garbage" but it does smack of kool-aid drinking everytime we're presented with another 10/10 review.

Originally Posted by Astrotoy7

BioWare has provided many with literally hundreds of hours of relatively immersive story and fun gameplay

Myself included.

BG, KotOR, ME, and ME2 are all titles that I own and have played...repeatedly. Does not mean they deserve all of the praise that they get. To say something is "overrated" *waves at topic* doesn't mean that it has zero value.

Originally Posted by Astrotoy7

- which is sort of what you'd want from a game

Yep. Sometimes.

Just like sometimes I like to turn off the brain and treat myself to an Iron Man movie.

But, if the Academy started giving Michael Bay Oscars every time that he released a movie and Rotten Tomato scores were constantly at 100, you'd better believe that I'd be pointing out that something was wrong.

Originally Posted by Astrotoy7

- and not necessarily anything more grandiose, far reaching or spiritual

You, sir, are obviously entitled to your opinion

[JediAthos]

Overrated Garbage: pointing out that everyone is entitled to an opinion

[mimartin]

Originally Posted by Achilles

To say something is "overrated" *waves at topic* doesn't mean that it has zero value.

*looks at topic* What does the Garbage part of the topic say to its value?

[Achilles]

Believe me, Athos, I wish is weren't necessary, but apparently it is (and in an opinion thread no less).

[TKA-001]

Originally Posted by Jai'galaar Bralor

Video games. We should all go outside.

Originally Posted by JediAthos

Overrated Garbage: pointing out that everyone is entitled to an opinion

Seconded.

[Sabretooth]

Originally Posted by JediAthos

Overrated Garbage: pointing out that everyone is entitled to an opinion

Pull that off in North Korea and I'll agree.

[JediAthos]

I don't live in North Korea...therefore I don't have that problem

[Sabretooth]

Originally Posted by JediAthos

I don't live in North Korea...therefore I don't have that problem

I like the way you Texans do business.

[Quanon]

Originally Posted by Astor

What about Gears of War (yet more overrated garbage, IMO)?

OMGCHAINSAWRIFLE!

Blatant Warhammer 40K RIPOFF!

In 40K about everything is made in to chain-something! Chainsword, Chainaxe, Chainfist... Chainsaw build into robot legs

Anyway on the Bioware/ Any other Dev bashing:

I always thought people where more dissespointed about the games produced because they're not to differant from others released. What I'm talking about is, that Bioware for example, now has the budget, the skill and knowledge, the support and people to produce something just a bit more special. But still play it uber-save; thus creating... bit more cliché driven things...

I still enjoyed the Mass Effect games, they're nicely done, but in another way, you just know it could've been more.

Sadly Obsidian is just the other way around; they like to try out differant approaches, but fall short on skill or support. Ending up with a bit more buggy games then most other Devs out there.

Just my 2cents