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Old 03-13-2012, 08:48 PM   #1241
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@ Achilles and mim: A lot of folks aren't finding closure in the ending and really, for a video game that's trying to be a B sci-fi movie series, the choice of ending it had was poorly executed and didn't bring about that closure.

When most people walk out of a cinema after seeing a movie, they expect some kind of resolution that they can accept in their mind. If it's not there then despite what the movie has in its beginning and middle, the end will lower their opinion of the movie and I can't blame them.

Personally, I don't really care about the ending at all but I still can't help but feel for the rest of the folks out there that are bothered by it because I completely understand where they're coming from.

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Old 03-13-2012, 08:58 PM   #1242
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I completely understand where they're coming from.
And I don't.

I find myself in some sort of bizzaro world where I'm defending a Bioware game and people that have previously been at the ready to tear apart shoddy writing for being "Bay-esque" think the game lacked clarity.
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Old 03-13-2012, 09:05 PM   #1243
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That's probably just your compulsion to be "not like everyone else" as much as you can

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Old 03-13-2012, 09:09 PM   #1244
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I don't like it because no matter what you choose, the endings are virtually the same with minor differences. Also, I just didn't like the way they ended the series.

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Old 03-13-2012, 09:40 PM   #1245
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There seems to be more hints that.....this might not be the actual full ending..

This youtube video explains
This has spoilers.

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Old 03-13-2012, 10:09 PM   #1246
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LOL....Did these people even play the game? It isn't enought that the moan about answers to questions that is actually in the game, but now they want to moan about stuff they pulled out of their butt....

The ending isn't happy... Nether is war...

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This I can agree with.

I'm just disagreeing that their isn't closure and their isn't answers to questions.
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Old 03-13-2012, 10:43 PM   #1247
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Can defenders of the endings stop with the whole "happy ending" BS? While there are some people that want a Disney end, they are in the minority. Most people knew going in they weren't going to get a "and everyone lived happily ever after" ending. It's not about that.
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Old 03-13-2012, 10:44 PM   #1248
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OK, one simple but fairly important (i think) point: (not sure if spoilers are necessary, but better safe than sorry)
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I mean, seriously? The ending could have been better, fine. But to tie up such an enormous story, it does a job.
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Old 03-13-2012, 11:05 PM   #1249
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I've compared Mass Effect to Macross many times... since I see quite a few interesting similarities in some of the lore between these two series.

I'll put this in spoiler tags but since I'm sure none of you will bother to watch Macross it's no big deal to look if you want to see what I'm on about...

spoiler:
When the original TV series of Macross ended in 1983 (after being extended for another 10 episodes due to its popularity) the ending was pretty grim.

Most of the human population was wiped out, Earth was a ravaged and virtually lifeless desert wasteland with wrecked alien ships scattered on the surface and unexploded ordnance everywhere. Both sides of the war, humanity vs an alien species were so royally screwed at the end that the few survivors had to band together to be able to survive. The Macross itself, the title hero space fortress crash landed back on Earth and in the very last episode is destroyed by a terrorist attack by rebel Zentradi (the aliens mentioned) who were opposed to having any sort of peace with humans. A lot of the main characters died in that final attack and a grim situation was even worse with that final attack. This event happened at the very last scene of the series and despite it the writers were still able to bring about a sense of hope at the end of the series despite all that had happened.

It was by no means a happy ending, humanity and the Zentradi had an extremey tough road ahead of them, but there was still hope at the end that, at least I think, was skillfully written through the last few episodes to make sure that despite the attack in the final scene of the entire series, people would still accept it... and from the reactions of people who watched Macross back then, they did since it was a very highly rated anime back then even to the very end.


Mass Effect tries to do the same thing, but for a lot of people the way that the story plays out makes it hard for a lot of people to accept.

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Old 03-13-2012, 11:23 PM   #1250
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Just "finished" my first playthrough......I think. Can someone please explain?

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Um...wtf?
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Old 03-13-2012, 11:27 PM   #1251
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Can defenders of the endings stop with the whole "happy ending" BS?
spoiler:
I'll stop the happy ending BS, when the people moaning quit asking for stuff that is already in the game...Just because it isn't in the last five minutes does not somehow make it invalid. If people keep moaning about stuff that is there then what choice do I have, but to surmise that either 1. They did not play the game, but are only trolling with bogus information they read online or watched on a youtube video, 2. are moaning about it because they wanted their happy ending, 3. Hate all vidya 4. Have a legit complaint and just can't focus it into the proper sentence structure to communicate it.

Someone writing it didnít answer my questions, but then Achilles showing where the game actually did or someone saying that it is a huge plot hole and someone pointing out a video showing for a fact that it isnít a plot hole, but in fact was mentioned prominently in the game do not make bad endings. Gamer inattention is not a valid argument for saying a game sucked. They are valid argument for saying YOU did not like a game because it did not hold your attention.

Saying none of your choices matter in the entire trilogy isnít valid either, since they clearly did in giving you the war assists that gave you the three choices at the end of the game. Those choices you made throughout the entire trilogy also clearly mattered in other parts of the game too.
Saying the degree of choices at the end was bad and provided nearly identical ending is to me a valid argument too. I also find it semi-disingenuous to say there was no paragon ending as some have mentioned when galactic peace for all-time seems pretty paragon to me.

I will say it again for the cheap seatsÖI did not like the endingÖ The kid AI did bother me. The almost identical outcomes of all three choices Iíve seen, bothered me. However, I have not seen where bioware lied to me like some on the internet have said. 1. My Shepard took back Earth. 2. I had to make difficult choices (which ending I thought was most accepting among them). 3. They answered my questions.

So I will stop the BS. Wish the haters would too.
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Old 03-13-2012, 11:41 PM   #1252
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OK, one simple but fairly important (i think) point: (not sure if spoilers are necessary, but better safe than sorry)
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Well your first point is part of the problem.
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Um...wtf?
Sounds like a bug of some sort. What platform? PC/360/PS3?
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Old 03-13-2012, 11:46 PM   #1253
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360. Haven't had any problems up to now. But, after looking at a few spoilers now I feel like I just watched the Sopranos series finale all over again.
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Old 03-13-2012, 11:49 PM   #1254
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There should be an autosave either just before or just after that sequence. Try loading it again I guess. If it persists, might want to try clearing the 360's cache - I hear that can sometimes magically fix issues. Failing that, have a look over at the official forum. There should be a 360 tech help sub-forum.
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Old 03-13-2012, 11:56 PM   #1255
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Well your first point is part of the problem.
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Old 03-14-2012, 12:03 AM   #1256
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That wouldn't be with Prothy in the party by any chance? I hear the dialogue for that whole sequence is expanded with him present.
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Old 03-14-2012, 12:10 AM   #1257
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Thanks DP. A simple reload solved the problem. Although, I must say that though I do not think the ending was terrible I was left hanging.

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Old 03-14-2012, 12:30 AM   #1258
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That wouldn't be with Prothy in the party by any chance? I hear the dialogue for that whole sequence is expanded with him present.


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Old 03-14-2012, 12:33 AM   #1259
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I know I'm tired of DLC that complete parts of an incomplete game.. which remains incomplete until more DLC is released.

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Old 03-14-2012, 12:46 AM   #1260
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Fancy all those people being so ignorant. The answer was there staring them in the face all along - if they'd just paid an extra $10 to unlock it.

But that's besides the point. The explanation they provided, regardless of where or to what degree it was foreshadowed, was not only illogical, it was completely unwarranted. As I said before, it would have been far better left unexplained.
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Old 03-14-2012, 01:24 AM   #1261
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Quote:
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Although, I must say that though I do not think the ending was terrible I was left hanging.
It is confusing, I will grant anyone that…You will have to piece it together from conversation throughout the entire trilogy.

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Last edited by mimartin; 03-14-2012 at 01:30 AM.
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Old 03-14-2012, 10:51 AM   #1262
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Changing gears... some info about the Mass Effect animu: http://www.japanator.com/first-look-...ll-22432.phtml

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Old 03-14-2012, 11:17 AM   #1263
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Are they meant to be Krogan?

Interesting that they say everyone hates Vega. I admit I wasn't keen on him when he was first announced, and I would still much rather have one of the old squad members back instead of him, but he didn't turn out to be too objectionable. Not that I ever really used him more than once or twice in combat. Pretty much used Garrus and Liara the whole time, except where you are forced to take certain chars.
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Old 03-14-2012, 11:23 AM   #1264
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Ya I sort of pieced together what you said Mimartin, but thank you that untangles a bit of the questions I had.

I liked Vega, although I disliked how few party members you had this time around. I read that they went with a smaller number so as to have a more intimate character development with each one...I didn't get that so much. Actually I thought some of the characters were dry.

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Old 03-14-2012, 11:31 AM   #1265
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Yeah they said a lot of things they didn't carry through with.
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Old 03-14-2012, 11:47 AM   #1266
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Are they meant to be Krogan?
They look more like Elites from Halo.
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Old 03-14-2012, 12:12 PM   #1267
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Spotted this. I think it covers most of the major issues pretty well. Spoilers obviously.

http://www.gamefront.com/mass-effect...ans-are-right/
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Old 03-14-2012, 12:21 PM   #1268
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I liked Vega, although I disliked how few party members you had this time around. I read that they went with a smaller number so as to have a more intimate character development with each one...I didn't get that so much. Actually I thought some of the characters were dry.
I not really sure how much development really need to be done with the crew, especially the two that have been with Shepard since ME1, the Shepard, Gurras day out was both lol funny and one of my favorite moments in the Mass Effect trilogy and the Tali “Emergency Induction Port” conversation (glitches and all) was still funny as hell. It is also one glitch I hope they don’t fix.

I was annoyed with the party members moving around the Normandy, until I realized they were interacting with each other. Some of the best most well written insightful dialogue in the game comes from Shepard listening to party members interact with each other. Was also really annoyed that Shepard couldn’t take people on the Citadel with him, until I had my first conversation with one on the Citadel, it was a nice touch. Also love that Bioware did a better job in Mass Effect 3 than ME2 in not letting romances happen while just being nice and then pretty much closing that character down from future meaningful conversations.

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Spotted this. I think it covers most of the major issues pretty well. Spoilers obviously.

http://www.gamefront.com/mass-effect...ans-are-right/
One question DP, you do agree that Number 3 the part about the Normandy, is not a plot hole? Right?

I love how it has been shown to be a false plot hole, but people still site it. All of 3 are wrong and have been proven wrong, but I just want to know your feelings on the Normandy one.

Last edited by mimartin; 03-20-2012 at 11:47 AM.
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Old 03-14-2012, 01:03 PM   #1269
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Whatever you want to call it, it's completely illogical. I'd say I'm in agreeance with what the article says. I believe I posted pretty much the same thing, albeit a briefer version, a few pages back. If by "shown to be a false plot hole" you believe that
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Old 03-14-2012, 01:15 PM   #1270
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I disagree. I think it's a cheap device that's used too often in order to shield crappy writing. I would have been disappointed if they hadn't answered that. My opinion only.

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A lot of assumptions here.
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In other news, I finished my second playthrough last night and picked up a couple of things that I missed (or got wrong) previously.
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Old 03-14-2012, 01:18 PM   #1271
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Old 03-14-2012, 01:32 PM   #1272
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So my assumptions based on things not explicitly stated are wrong, yet your assumptions based on things not explicitly stated are correct?
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Old 03-14-2012, 01:38 PM   #1273
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One set of assumptions creates plot holes. *shrugs*

You state that you're not asking to be spoon-fed, yet at every turn, very minor gaps are used to prop up some "not good enough" argument. I'm trying to give you the benefit of the doubt, but I'm having a hard time seeing how you're not trying to have it both ways.
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Old 03-14-2012, 01:41 PM   #1274
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Where did I say that? And most everything I have stated has been explicitly stated. Here I'm not saying you are wrong, but I am explicitly stating that it is not fact.

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Old 03-14-2012, 01:50 PM   #1275
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I'm not one for long arguments (even though I prefer DarthParametric's theories) so I think I'll just go and give Skyrim a few turns and leave all things regarding ME3 shelved for now.
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Old 03-14-2012, 02:09 PM   #1276
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Nice to prefer theories over facts or opinions over facts too.
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Old 03-14-2012, 02:26 PM   #1277
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Nice to prefer theories over facts or opinions over facts too.
Like I said, I don't like arguing with anybody (especially moderators ), but the only facts I'll accept are the ones that come straight from Bioware. All of the "facts" that you and Achilles posted here are way too ambiguous in my book. Just call me stubborn.
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Old 03-14-2012, 02:28 PM   #1278
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Which has been my point all along. There are virtually no "facts" - it's pretty much all supposition whichever side of the fence you are on.
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Old 03-14-2012, 02:30 PM   #1279
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I'm not one for long arguments (even though I prefer DarthParametric's theories) so I think I'll just go and give Skyrim a few turns and leave all things regarding ME3 shelved for now.
Hah, speak for yourself, if I had any choice in the matter (essays ) I would totally be diving in for my second playthrough right now and righting the wrongs I made before. In fact, screw the essays I might just do that anyway

And briefly, I thought James was O.K., if a bit annoying sometimes. Like others, I would rather have had someone else from the previous games but i can understand why they left them out given that
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Old 03-14-2012, 02:49 PM   #1280
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Nether of you will believe the game itself?

Seriously why do you even play video games if you do not believe what is stated in them?

That makes no sense what so ever to me. Yes, given your premise that it has to be spelled out in crayon the last five mins to be valid, then I completely agree with you Mass Effect 3 ending worse than I thought, but with the constraints you have place on them so does every other game written for anyone over the age 17.

Any game that makes you think or pay attention is bad. Sorry, I can see why we have different taste in video games, I want games that make me think a little. Now I loved KOTOR and Jade Empire, but thinkers they were not, I find a game like ME3 and TSL way more enjoyable and replayable because you have to figure it out. Sure games can be brainless fun, but don't moan when a producer makes a game for people that actually like to think too.

Not that this matters. (afterall it was in the game which doesn't matter unless it was the last five seconds)

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