If the exclusion of Tali isn't just a oversight or marketing ploy, ChAiNz will not be happy. Not happy at all. I may be a little upset too
Yeah.. I'd figure I'd hold my comments hoping it will be an editorial mistake or that Tali is included in the "it’s a matter of getting another crew together to take on the Reaper menace and save Earth" part of the Article.
Tali may have been marginalised (along with most of the rest of the ME2 cast) because of the whole potentially dead at the end of ME2 thing. But given how rabid her fan base is, I'm sure she'll make an appearance of some sort, even if it's just to drop in for the obligatory pre-final showdown shag.
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So after realizing they over-streamlined, they're putting ME3 where ME2 should have been mechanics-wise, and calling it an upgrade. At least they're doing it though. That isn't to say I disliked ME2, I was just surprised when it turned out to be a rather good shooter-with-occasional-conversation, instead of a rather good RPG-with-shooty bits. Looks like ME3 might turn out to be a rather good Shooter-RPG, without one aspect being dominant enough to all but cancel out the other.
I'm liking the talk of alternative endings, but the magazine's comparison to ME2 worries me. While I was happy with ME2's various endings, that was in part because I recognized that they were allowing the most change they could if they wanted the sequel's story to follow in any way logically. It had two real endings (not counting Shepard death, since that can't continue to ME3), giving the collector base away, or blowing it up (all the others were just different configurations of which crew-members died, and don't really change the state of the game universe much). Considering Bioware wants the story to flow no matter which you pick, this is very impressive.
However, with ME3, they can do so much more. Since they don't need to worry about a sequel limiting the changes a player can cause in the game universe, the degree of possible options is huge. While I have no doubt that the 'real' (read: not counting as losing the game) endings will all have the Reapers defeated, I'd hope that the player will have more of an impact than just saving the day as RainbowHugs Shepard, or as BadassJerk Shepard. At the very least, I'd hope that one could choose between restoring the status quo of aliens and humans on a roughly equal footing, or siding with (perhaps taking over) Cerberus and ensuring human supremacy over the lesser races (or even begin to cleanse the galaxy of alien filth). Options like those (and hopefully more) would go a long way to make the player's story have lasting impact on the galaxy.
edit: Just read the link Achilles posted. I'm kind of hoping that the writer is wrong, and that ME3 won't be yet another "unite the races to help you in the final battle" a la DA:O, and many other games. While Bioware does recycle quite a bit of story material, (it's just like that other thing, but this time, in SPACE!), I'd hope that they wouldn't do it within a 2 year period. Though if there were the potential for convincing the Quarians to fight against the Geth, the Krogans against the Salarians/Turians, with a promise of covert assistance to all parties after the Reapers are defeated, thus weakening all the most militarily powerful non-human species (the Asari, while good economically, wouldn't be anywhere near a match for humans in a war, IIRC), then I'd probably reconsider. Any game that allows the player to be a magnificent bastard gets bonus points from me. The more common type of video game evil is just being a violent thug, instead of a clever, manipulative, violent thug.
--Too Dumb to Quit--
Last edited by Liverandbacon; 04-08-2011 at 01:37 PM.
I recommend that certain people read the section on Quarians.
Nice read.
I still believe dark energy is going to play an important part in ME3. They just gave too many hints about it in ME2 for it to mean nothing.
Never really thought about the Udina versus Anderson in that way makes me kind of wish I would have picked Udina at least once. All in all, I think I’ve set up my saves rather nicely if the speculation in the article is correct.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liverandbacon
However, with ME3, they can do so much more. Since they don't need to worry about a sequel limiting the changes a player can cause in the game universe, the degree of possible options is huge. While I have no doubt that the 'real' (read: not counting as losing the game) endings will all have the Reapers defeated, I'd hope that the player will have more of an impact than just saving the day as RainbowHugs Shepard, or as BadassJerk Shepard.
I want the Shepard saves the day followed by stones fall down upon their head ending.
I'm kind of hoping that the writer is wrong, and that ME3 won't be yet another "unite the races to help you in the final battle" a la DA:O, and many other games.
I'm sorry, but I just can't see how anyone could NOT see this coming.
Tali's loyalty mission, Legion's loyalty mission, resolution of the subsequent conflict, status of Wrex (and his interaction in ME2 if he survived), etc, etc all SCREAM that this is exactly what we should be expecting in ME3.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mimartin
I want the Shepard saves the day followed by stones fall down upon their head ending.
I'm sorry, but I just can't see how anyone could NOT see this coming.
Tali's loyalty mission, Legion's loyalty mission, resolution of the subsequent conflict, status of Wrex (and his interaction in ME2 if he survived), etc, etc all SCREAM that this is exactly what we should be expecting in ME3.
I would imagine the reasoning behind the Cerberus thing is simply that they needed 10-15 hours of filler combat before the cutscene at the end where you kill the Reapers.
I'm pretty sure they've already said that the Reapers would be arriving at the start of ME3...
I'm sorry, but I just can't see how anyone could NOT see this coming.
Tali's loyalty mission, Legion's loyalty mission, resolution of the subsequent conflict, status of Wrex (and his interaction in ME2 if he survived), etc, etc all SCREAM that this is exactly what we should be expecting in ME3.
Which is why I said 'hoping', not 'expecting' it to be different.
Of course I agree that it's the most likely course things will take, but that doesn't change the fact that I would prefer it if Bioware waited more than 2 years before recycling a plot to an even greater extent than they normally do.
Hell, even the 'find/construct the one ancient/newly invented object that can save the day' hasn't been used as recently, and would actually make more sense than than throwing every united species' might at the Reapers. Considering one Reaper could destroy so many of the most powerful species' ships, that there are at least 300 of them coming (that's assuming the ones we saw on screen at the end of ME2 are all of them), and that most of the galaxy isn't even mobilizing for war since the Council still doesn't believe in Reapers, throwing everyone at them would just result in everyone dying.
Well, as long as they don't Independence Day it and "upload" some kind of virus into the Reapers....
Now, I want you to remember that no bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor, dumb bastard die for his country.---Patton
There is no room in this country for hyphenated Americanism.---Teddy Roosevelt
I never forget a face, but in your case I'll make an exception.---Groucho
And if you all get killed, I'll piss on your graves.---Shaman Urdnot
How would you like to own a little bit of my foot in your ass.---Red Foreman
I actually expect sort of both to happen. Obviously there's going to be an epic war with everyone fighting the Reapers, but I don't think that's how the story is going to end. That would pretty much leave Shepard out of the loop. No, I think while they're trying desperately to hold the Reapers back, Shepard's going to be off Sheparding the Sheps. Maybe he'll blow up the Citadel, disable the entire Mass Relay network and strand the Reapers in their little networks of systems. Maybe he'll figure out the secret of Element Zero and find a way to turn all Eezo inert. That would be a fun ending. You save the galaxy by destroying the cornerstone of civilization.
If Tali'Zorah Vas Normandy isn't a squadmate in ME3, especially after i romanced her, I will nuke every BioWare employee into the ground. Then I will hug Chainz while he cries and whisper "It will be okay"
Actually, something along these lines might tie in with Mimi's observations about "Dark Energy".
I'd have to agree with all 3 of you Achilles, Mimartin & Primogen
As much as it was thrown around in ME2, and along with the Quarians studying dark energy and the collapse of suns (which creates eezo).. it HAS to be part of the story catalyst
Not sure exactly on the whos whats whens hows and whys, but I'd wager it's a plot device to jump-start the main mission.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mass Effect Wiki
Eezo is generated when solid matter, such as a planet, is affected by the energy of a star going supernova. The material is common in the asteroid debris that orbits neutron stars and pulsars.
Well, as long as they don't Independence Day it and "upload" some kind of virus into the Reapers....
I don't want that (the virus), a super secret Reaper off switch or a group of primitive teddy bear to help save the day. Beyond that I’m game for anything.
I don't want that (the virus), a super secret Reaper off switch or a group of primitive teddy bear to help save the day. Beyond that I’m game for anything.
I would also add that i don't want dark energy to be like the force/dark side, meaning, the explanation to anything that doesn't make a whole lot of sense.
You would be up for a splinter group of Reapers arriving at the climax of the plot and destroying all the other Reapers, thus making everything Shepard's done throughout the series completely irrelevant because the Reapers were going to be stopped anyway?
I would also add that i don't want dark energy to be like the force/dark side, meaning, the explanation to anything that doesn't make a whole lot of sense.
I did not get the impression from the hints in ME2 that dark energy would be anything like that.
I’m thinking it is either Reaper technology or someone other than Ceberus believes Shepard’s story and are experimenting with dark energy thinking it is outside of the Reapers scope of technology. The galaxy is way too dependent on the roadmap of technical advancement the Reapers left behind. Something outside that realm may be the key to bringing them down; a theory hinted at by TIM in ME2 but then thrown away when TIM wanted to save the Collector, so basically a guess on my part. Perhaps the Geth or the rachni, they are at least two species that know Shepard is telling the truth and know a little about Reaper technology.
I'm pretty sure they've already said that the Reapers would be arriving at the start of ME3...
Yes, but that doesn't mean anything. You can't defeat them straight away obviously, lest the game last only 5 minutes. And you can't fight 200-300 Reapers interactively regardless. So the logical conclusion is that you will spend the vast majority of the game running around small linear areas hiding behind cover shooting at humanoids before finding some magical solution and using it to kill all the Reapers in a cutscene at the end. Seeing as how Cerberus have conveniently turned against you in the face of impending galactic doom, I suspect there will be no shortage of said humanoids. And of course they have shown a few new Reaper creations that look like something out of Doom, which I'm sure they'll sprinkle in for a touch of flavour.
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I never said that, I only said the Reapers look to be there at the start of the game.
And I agree with you about not fighting the reapers directly, I was just talking to mim a few hours ago about how Shep would most likely go on some quest to find a way to destroy all of the reapers at once while the rest of the galaxy tries to hold off the reapers some how... but Cerberus turning against Shep isn't convenient, it's only natural considering that they want to come out on top by the end of the conflict with the Reapers and be in a position to take control of the galaxy themselves and even be credited with the Reapers destruction... they wouldn't just go after Shep because it's to shoot things.
I was taking convenience in terms of a plot device for the developers. Makes their life easier if the majority of hapless peons you have to wade through for most of the game are just black retextures of all the humanoid models they used for mercs in ME2.
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So the Cebs are enemies now... I wonder how they explain that when i spared that freaking space station. I had no intention of giving it to TIM and i told him to f*** off though I wanted to kill him anyway, those eyes creep me out.
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I was taking convenience in terms of a plot device for the developers. Makes their life easier if the majority of hapless peons you have to wade through for most of the game are just black retextures of all the humanoid models they used for mercs in ME2.
You know, if they work in the idea that as an elite, hidden, organization, Cerberus' forces would be limited in size and often hire mercs for grunt work, they could save even more dev time by doing even less reskinning. Bioware can send the check in the mail.
I don't really have a problem with models not changing much, since within the game's timeline, armor and weapons tech are unlikely to have changed much, and ME2's graphics still hold up perfectly well. Saved dev time could go to other aspects of the game.
Shepards that are cool with aliens are easy to put Cerberus against. The easiest way I can see to reconcile having a Humanocentrist Shepard (who would want Cerberus to win) with having Cerberus as an enemy would be to make TIM worry that Shepard, with his record and ability to inspire loyalty, would be a threat to his position as leader of the organization. Personal greed would outweigh devotion to humanity, and he'd try to have Shepard killed. Taking over Cerberus would be just awesome enough to have me play an alien-hating Shepard. I never could be bothered to do it before, since I like how my Shep and Garrus have a whole Boondock Saints vigilante duo thing going, minus the religion.
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Originally Posted by Achilles
Good job, Mimi. About three of us are old enough to get that.
I'm sure plenty people here would recognize Horshack. At least I hope so, since I've never considered myself one of the old fogeys here, and I'd prefer for that not to change.
Saved dev time could go to other aspects of the game.
Indeed. That worked out well in DA2.
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It would be interesting if during the trial in the beginning of the game you could either spill your guts about Cerb and some of their deals and your actions which would get them kind of pissed. These choices could be a way to determine if Miranda for example will be friendly or join back with cerbs.
This also could be used to affect which ME2 party members who are possible companions to want to come back or kill you, or forget you.
As for why Cerbs wants you dead I'm assuming as mentioned in ME2 there are many different cells of cerbs out there....the ILM might be interested in making a deal or getting control of Reaper tech to remove aliens and leave only humans. After all ILM built Shepherd as he was 100 percent as a form of bait for the Collectors and Reapers. ILM could have trained an army but the one person who killed a Reaper is actually going to be of a threat.
All I know is i'm happy for no multiply and this going to be a fun ride to see the end to 3 part story.
I never said they would use extra dev time well, just that it opens up the possibility.
Also, re-using well made character models from a good-looking recent game in the same universe is very different from making just a few levels and copy-pasting them all over a game (a la ME1 and DA2).
I assume that's what you're referring to, since I haven't played any of DA2 other than the demo (and don't really plan to), and that's the complaint I've heard that would make sense in this context. I'm also assuming you were being sarcastic.
It would be interesting if during the trial in the beginning of the game you could either spill your guts about Cerb and some of their deals and your actions which would get them kind of pissed. These choices could be a way to determine if Miranda for example will be friendly or join back with cerbs.
This would be a bit weird since by the end of the game, Miranda is more part of Shepard's team, them she is Cerberus imo.
Quote:
The easiest way I can see to reconcile having a Humanocentrist Shepard (who would want Cerberus to win) with having Cerberus as an enemy would be to make TIM worry that Shepard, with his record and ability to inspire loyalty, would be a threat to his position as leader of the organization. Personal greed would outweigh devotion to humanity, and he'd try to have Shepard killed. Taking over Cerberus would be just awesome enough to have me play an alien-hating Shepard.
I originally thought about this explanation as well, Shepard is gaining the loyalty of Cerberus and might represent a threat for TIM and must be removed, but TIM getting insecure is so out of character...
I think the idea of how you are going to use Cerberus resources being the breaking point works better.
And yeah, it's gonna be awesome to take over Cerberus, even a pro human Shepard is not necessarily pro TIM (he is always an ass regardless).
re-using well made character models from a good-looking recent game in the same universe is very different from making just a few levels and copy-pasting them all over a game (a la ME1 and DA2).
It's actually not that different in principle (and motivation), but I'll assume you mean that you aren't bothered by the former as opposed to the latter. Both examples are fairly jarring to my mind when compared to their respective forebears, but to each their own.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liverandbacon
I'm also assuming you were being sarcastic.
True, but it is only the garnish on a solid kernel of seriousness.
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I may be a little upset too
I wanted to kill him anyway, those eyes creep me out.
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