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Old 04-12-2011, 02:17 PM   #241
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I romanced Ashley up to the point of the clone factory and left her there to be a hero. Yeah.. I'm a bastard.
I did that with Ashley and Carth Jr. too.
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Old 04-12-2011, 02:33 PM   #242
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NWN2 was made by Obsidian.
DOH! thanks for the correction..

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Yes, you can play through ME1 without romancing anyone. But when you import that save into ME2, the romance state flag gets set to Liara. Although there is a progress value for the romance conversations, so possibly it could flag the romance as Ashley even though you killed her off. I'm not sure how it deals with that.
I'll be interested to see if it actually works. I do know that if you use the method of leaving your romance to become martyred, their picture doesn't appear on your desk (nor the opposing love interest). Also, Liara gave me the "just friends" hug reaction that you would normally get if you didn't pursue her... along with the "just friends" Shadow Broker rigamaroll..

Will be nifty to see if the method worked.

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I did that with Ashley and Carth Jr. too.
Good to know I wasn't the only one


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Old 04-12-2011, 02:58 PM   #243
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I had read that if you cut Ashley off at the knees during the "I hate aliens" dialog, it kills any romance option with her. I tried it and seemed to confirm it as I was unable to proceed with her romance. Kaiden died on Virmire and Ashley was there in the intro for ME2, though I don't recall if she gave me the "I love you" speech on Horizon (I think it was the more generic "I would've followed you anywhere"). Similarly, I didn't get an overtly warm response from Liara either, so I'm not sure what to make of DP's info.
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Old 04-12-2011, 03:30 PM   #244
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Me neither, I do recall getting "must of been rough" speech from Kelly when returning to the Normandy from Horizon, but nothing beyond that.
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Old 04-12-2011, 03:38 PM   #245
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Good to know I wasn't the only one

Been there, done that at least once to Ash myself, can't remember w/Kaiden as I usually play Shep as a male.


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So I finished my final Mass Effect 2 playthrough ready to import into ME3

Level 30
Paragon
Council Saved
Rachni Queen Saved
Collector Base Destroyed
Everyone Survived
Romanced Tali, NOT unfaithful as had no romance in ME1

anyone elses "statistics" for me3 import?
Have numerous imports lined up and they run gamut. More often renegade than paragon, probably equal on saving/eliminating Council, Rachni and Collector Base. Romances variable, including none. I think one save with only 2 survivors (Sam/Grunt) but most with between none to 3 KIA and a few with only 4-5 survivors. Wondering what trouble Conrad will get into next.....


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Old 04-12-2011, 06:38 PM   #246
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I -always- nuked Kaidan. I hate that guy so much.


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Old 04-12-2011, 07:38 PM   #247
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I -always- nuked Kaidan. I hate that guy so much.
Me too, he always turns into space dust with me.

I guess i wanted to do that since male darksided Revan, and Kaidan was the next best thing.
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Old 04-12-2011, 07:53 PM   #248
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Musings on post-campaign content

I'm guessing that this will be the first stuff to hit the cutting room floor as the release date approaches.
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Old 04-12-2011, 07:55 PM   #249
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BioWare certainly likes using that MMO word lately.
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Old 04-12-2011, 08:41 PM   #250
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I'd tap a Mass Effect MMO. The fact that they're even considering an MMO means that it's unlikely that Mass Effect 3 will have an apocalyptic ending, like all Reaper Tech being disabled or something of the kind, as that would be the downfall of galactic civilization.


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Old 04-12-2011, 08:50 PM   #251
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Frankly, they'd be kinda stupid not to make a MEMMO.
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Old 04-12-2011, 09:34 PM   #252
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Sometimes I think making an MMO in this current market is pretty stupid. Or maybe it's just that everyone tries to imitate the goose that lays golden eggs.


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Old 04-12-2011, 11:15 PM   #253
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If they want to MMO ME outside of the Shep storyline, fine with me. Unlikely to bother with it, but it wouldn't bother me in the slightest.


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Old 04-12-2011, 11:18 PM   #254
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Could be that the the false Liara flag only happens if you don't speak to anyone in ME1. As I said there are conversation progress values stored for Ashley/Liara/Kaidan, so maybe just speaking to one of them once is enough to avoid that. Or maybe it is a bug that only affects a limited number of people. Most of my ME1 Sheps voluntarily pursued Liara, so I never had the opportunity to experience it first-hand. I'm just going on what I have heard.
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Old 04-13-2011, 04:48 PM   #255
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Frankly, they'd be kinda stupid not to make a MEMMO.
I'm not so sure. There are so many already running, and so many coming out, that it's tough to get a good playerbase. They'd even be competing against another of their own games for subscriptions from those MMO gamers who would be interested in a SciFi MMO, and haven't yet gotten so far in another game that switching wouldn't make sense. I know some people play multiple MMOs, but it doesn't seem to be a majority. Even they generally seem to have one 'dominant' one, and stop subscribing to the others after a short period of time, cycling through new games.

Most people interested in a Mass Effect MMO would probably be interested in a Star Wars one, so I can't see it attracting many players they wouldn't get anyway, instead simply dividing subscribers between two games. The divided playerbase would weaken both games' chances of long-term survival and profitability. The only way I could see this as anything but a bad choice is if they decided that TOR will be terrible, and won't come into competition for players with an ME MMO. Even in that case, the smarter thing to do would be to just center on making TOR as good as possible to get players.



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Old 04-13-2011, 05:21 PM   #256
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I apologize for sounding dismissive but this seems akin to saying that because people will buy chocolate ice cream, no one should make vanilla.

People that like Star Trek will play a Star Trek MMO. People that like Star Wars will play a Star Wars MMO. People that like Legos will play a Lego MMO.

To say that the people who want to play Sci-Fi will play Star Wars seems to fail to understand how consumers of goods and services behave. Yes, in a market without a specific good or service, consumers may seek out substitutes, but sometimes (like when the good or service is not essential) they won't. This is kinda like why every car manufacturer has a selection of models and there are dozens of car manufacturers.
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Old 04-13-2011, 05:31 PM   #257
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Achilles View Post
I apologize for sounding dismissive but this seems akin to saying that because people will buy chocolate ice cream, no one should make vanilla.

People that like Star Trek will play a Star Trek MMO. People that like Star Wars will play a Star Wars MMO. People that like Legos will play a Lego MMO.

To say that the people who want to play Sci-Fi will play Star Wars seems to fail to understand how consumers of goods and services behave. Yes, in a market without a specific good or service, consumers may seek out substitutes, but sometimes (like when the good or service is not essential) they won't. This is kinda like why every car manufacturer has a selection of models and there are dozens of car manufacturers.
This.

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Old 04-13-2011, 06:21 PM   #258
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Yeah, but Star Wars has a considerably larger fanbase than Mass Effect.


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Old 04-13-2011, 06:25 PM   #259
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Help me understand why this is significant?
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Old 04-13-2011, 06:27 PM   #260
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Fanbase = Customers = Income = Money = Profit = ??? = Success.


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Old 04-13-2011, 06:33 PM   #261
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That doesn't help me because that can be applied to anything.

Help me understand why a ME MMO is a bad idea because more people like Star Wars. Better yet, help me understand why it is that any company makes anything other than a Star Wars game using the very same logic that you use above.

P.S. Please be sure to include subscription rates for Star Wars Galaxies, since it's release, in your response.
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Old 04-13-2011, 06:50 PM   #262
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My point is that Mass Effect doesn't have -that- strong of a fanbase compared to Star Wars, and you need a very strong fanbase or something seriously innovative to survive in the MMO market with Goliath stomping around. I don't think Mass Effect has that, and I don't have a lot of confidence in BioWare's ability to really innovate.


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Old 04-13-2011, 07:11 PM   #263
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My point is that Mass Effect doesn't have -that- strong of a fanbase compared to Star Wars
Nothing does. Star Wars has been a powerhouse franchise for almost 40 years.

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and you need a very strong fanbase or something seriously innovative to survive in the MMO market with Goliath stomping around. I don't think Mass Effect has that, and I don't have a lot of confidence in BioWare's ability to really innovate.
And you may be right. But you could also be wrong.

Tell me where the World of Warcraft franchise was before the game came out.

A lot of people have played ME and I'm willing to bet a fair share of them would play an ME MMO. I think the mistake that you're making is that you're not accounting for the fact that just because someone doesn't play MMOs now that they wouldn't play this and/or that they are already playing something else and wouldn't switch. I also think you're undervaluing ME as an IP.
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Old 04-13-2011, 07:18 PM   #264
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Bioware's main men Dr. Greg Zeschuk and Dr. Ray Muzyka talk about Mass Effect 3, Star Wars: The Old Republic, future unannounced games, and much more in an exclusive interview with Game Informer.

Quote:
Since Mass Effect 3 is the end of the trilogy, will fans face a Mass Effect drought for a while before they get to revisit that universe?

Zeschuk: We’re pretty big. We have lots of teams. Lots of possibilities. Even though we will effectively finish the trilogy it’s not like it’s over in the sense of “Hey, we’re going to put the Mass Effect world on the shelf forever and never come back to it.” We’ve already been thinking about that.

We’re deep in development on 3 and it’s chugging along. So really an objective for us at this point is get that done but also think of the future of the universe. One thing that’s really clear is people love the Mass Effect universe. We really want to make sure that what we’re doing next is going to satisfy them and really move it forward.
Judging by that it's obvious that ME3 is not the end of Mass Effect, so I'd have to agree that an MMO is a strong possibility at this point. I think they'll probably wait and see if TOR is a big success or not first and then make a decision.


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Old 04-13-2011, 09:13 PM   #265
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I like Primogen's "can't compete, don't try" mentality. We'd have a lot less games made and a much smaller industry if developers and publishers felt that way too.

And before anyone says it, I'm sure BioWare and EA have already done their market research on this whole Mass Effect MMO idea long before any of us ever knew it was a possibility and have come up with promising results to get the idea this far.

Whether you AGREE with what they're doing or not, if they feel that can profit from it, they'll do it.

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Old 04-13-2011, 09:46 PM   #266
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Quote:
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I apologize for sounding dismissive but this seems akin to saying that because people will buy chocolate ice cream, no one should make vanilla.

People that like Star Trek will play a Star Trek MMO. People that like Star Wars will play a Star Wars MMO. People that like Legos will play a Lego MMO.

To say that the people who want to play Sci-Fi will play Star Wars seems to fail to understand how consumers of goods and services behave. Yes, in a market without a specific good or service, consumers may seek out substitutes, but sometimes (like when the good or service is not essential) they won't. This is kinda like why every car manufacturer has a selection of models and there are dozens of car manufacturers.
The only way MEMMO would have success is if they made it very different in gameplay from TOR. Seeing as most MMOs seem to be very similar indeed, this is unlikely, but hey, this time it might be different right?

Assuming the gameplay is as similar as even the most 'creative and different' MMOs have been, I think the number of people who would be willing to buy a Bioware Mass Effect MMO but not a Bioware Star Wars MMO is small compared to those who would. TOR would likely get all the sales+subs from (in addition to the SW-only crowd) those willing to play it either because they like Star Wars in addition to Mass Effect, or their love for Bioware. Because the dev is the same, and the settings are very similar in nature (not just 'SciFi'; Mass Effect is way closer to Star Wars than say, Eve Online's universe), even if MEMMO wasn't made. I think this would be a substantial amount of MEMMO's potential playerbase.

The only new sales+subs MEMMO would create would be the group of people who like Mass Effect enough to get an MMO of it, but not Bioware (regardless of setting) or Star Wars (I'm having a hard time thinking of anyone who would buy a Mass Effect MMO, but not another Bioware MMO in such a similar universe). I'm not convinced that this would be anywhere near enough people to make MEMMO very profitable. Even if it did manage to get a bunch of people who would have otherwise been happy to play TOR, while it might make some money, Bioware would just be taking subscriptions from itself, getting no more money, but spending more in order to create and maintain two games rather than one. Your car brand argument helps mine. While they may release many models of car, one brand will generally not simultaneously produce multiple car models of the same 'type'. For instance, one brand is unlikely to release multiple 7-seat hybrid minivans at the same time. You don't compete with yourself to fill a market niche, you use the budget to make one product that will dominate it. Otherwise, you get two less successful products likely to get pushed out by a rival who consolidated things. Even if one is a runaway success, the other is then by definition not, and the funds used to make it were pointlessly spent. The same applies to game devs.

In summation: While obviously they wouldn't have a perfect 1:1 substitution rate, I believe TOR would get most of MEMMO's potential sales, leaving too few people left over to make MEMMO profitable. If I understand you correctly, you believe that there are plenty of people who would buy MEMMO, but not TOR, despite the shared dev, and similar settings. That has nothing to do with either us not understanding very basic economics (it may have been 8 years since I left uni, but I haven't forgotten that much), instead relying on our own estimates of where fanbase loyalties lie.



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Old 04-13-2011, 10:02 PM   #267
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Well TOR was officially announced in the fall of 2008. Here we are in the spring of 2011 (in case you didn’t know the year) and TOR has yet to be released. Since a ME MMO hasn’t even been announced, just how long before any possible release? Next question is how long is EA/BioWare license agreement with LucasArts? My understanding is BioWare had been working on TOR for almost 3 years when they made the press release in October 2008. So if TOR is released by the end of this year and ME MMO takes about the same time to develop as TOR, would they really be competing with each other in four or five years? Or (depending on the success of TOR) could ME MMO be BioWare/EA’s next cash cow after TOR?

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Old 04-13-2011, 10:19 PM   #268
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I'm actually assuming that the gameplay for an ME MMO would be similar to the original trilogy of ME games with MMO type additions.

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Old 04-13-2011, 10:21 PM   #269
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Yeah I agree with mimsy, launch gap would be significant enough where the success or failure of TOR will be already known prior to any MEMMO-ness. The next Mass Effect game will be a co-operatively developed affair with Zynga anyway. TuchankaVille an FB game where you can invite your friends to your desolate clan to help fertilize your Krogans and combat the Genophage.


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Old 04-13-2011, 10:22 PM   #270
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By the time it comes out, you will be able to plug the game directly into your brain.
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Old 04-13-2011, 10:33 PM   #271
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I just see a Mass Effect MMO as a waste of resources that could be better allocated to making a good single player game. Like Jade Empire 2, an actual sequel to Mass Effect, Dragon Age III, or a new IP.


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Old 04-13-2011, 10:35 PM   #272
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Don't worry about EA, they have the resources to do all that if they believe they can make a buck.
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Old 04-13-2011, 10:35 PM   #273
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Quote:
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I just see a Mass Effect MMO as a waste of resources that could be better allocated to making a good single player game. Like Jade Empire 2, an actual sequel to Mass Effect, Dragon Age III, or a new IP.
BioWare has expanded greatly over the years... what makes you think they're not capable of working on multiple games at one time when they're doing just that right now?

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Old 04-13-2011, 10:40 PM   #274
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Bioware started the Austin studio explicity to develop MMOs. It's inevitable they will produce more after primary development on TOR finishes (or even beforehand). The two other studios, Edmonton (the original Bioware) and Montreal (the ME2/3 studio) will continue on with traditional SP games. I doubt they will be overly taxed.
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Old 04-13-2011, 10:43 PM   #275
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what makes you think they're not capable of working on multiple games at one time when they're doing just that right now?
Clearly he knows a guy, who knows a guy whose gay roommate at Brown had a misanthropic uncle who has a friend whose son works for BioWare, as a janitor and he knows all.


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Old 04-13-2011, 10:43 PM   #276
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Quote:
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I just see a Mass Effect MMO as a waste of resources that could be better allocated to making a good single player game. Like Jade Empire 2, an actual sequel to Mass Effect, Dragon Age III, or a new IP.
If Jade Empire 2 was going to happen, it probably would have by now, Dragon Age III is going to happen anyway, and what do you mean by "actual sequel"?

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Old 04-13-2011, 10:44 PM   #277
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Quote:
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The only way MEMMO would have success is if they made it very different in gameplay from TOR.
TOR = Lightsabers
MEMMO = Guns

Force = Biotics so you got me there.

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Please go back and read what I already said to Primogen.
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Old 04-13-2011, 10:56 PM   #278
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TOR = Lightsabers
Mav's Smuggler: Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, Achilles.


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Old 04-13-2011, 11:00 PM   #279
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I was wondering how long it would take for someone to point out that TOR has guns too via a Han Solo quote

I was hoping to just make my point and leave.
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Old 04-13-2011, 11:07 PM   #280
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Meh, I see your overarching point that the franchises differ enough to have their own audiences and a valid point it is. I just wanted to make a quip about how Smugglers are awesome. The existence of this thread in this forum proves that there is room for both Star Wars fans and Mass Effect fans as well as an audience consisting of those that are fans of both.


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