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Old 01-12-2011, 06:51 PM   #81
Darth Avlectus
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Originally Posted by Working Class Hero View Post
No, thank you. I prefer to get my information from only one side: the intelligent one.
You sir have convinced me that the most unbiased people are the ones who are one-sided.

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If you want to listen to racist, mentally impotent rednecks in pursuit of your concept of "balanced coverage", please, be my guest.
Effing righteous brah! Take it to the man! Don't let the little things like ad hominems, poisoning the well, straw man, moving the goal posts, arrogance, pot kettle black, false equivocation, antics with semantics, false dilemma, slippery slope, or ad populum stop you. KILL WHITEY!


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Old 01-12-2011, 07:12 PM   #82
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You sir have convinced me that the most unbiased people are the ones who are one-sided.
I was never talking about unbiasedness. I intended to equate liberalism with intelligence, rush and savage with stupidity.


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Originally Posted by GTA:SWcity View Post
Effing righteous brah! Take it to the man! Don't let the little things like ad hominems, poisoning the well, straw man, moving the goal posts, arrogance, pot kettle black, false equivocation, antics with semantics, false dilemma, slippery slope, or ad populum stop you. KILL WHITEY!
I'm glad to know you can google logical fallacy lists.
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Old 01-12-2011, 07:22 PM   #83
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Originally Posted by Working Class Hero View Post
No, thank you. I prefer to get my information from only one side: the intelligent one.
Just a question...what source (besides the primary source of course) doesn't provide a biased outlook?



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Old 01-12-2011, 07:29 PM   #84
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Originally Posted by Working Class Hero View Post
I was never talking about unbiasedness. I intended to equate liberalism with intelligence, rush and savage with stupidity.
Used to think that. I thought it meant of liberty and open mindedness.

Then I met someone who claimed as such but were all about censorship and could only cite what they disagreed with. Also this person hung with other people who listened to what he preached endlessly about how the 2nd amendment is outdated, and somesuch blather that "if someone pulled a gun on me I'd do the passivised thing and surrender", and yet ironically that was the first person to go on a power trip when put in charge of a construction project and get physical when things didn't go his way.

I also see the left is doing the same thing. Often more and more. Just to get back at anyone.

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I'm glad to know you can google logical fallacy lists.
I didn't Google it, I mushware'd it. You know, that human hardware stuff between your ears.


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Old 01-12-2011, 08:53 PM   #85
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There is nothing to be gained from watching FoxNews. There gets to be a point when a source goes so far overboard with lies, and over politicizing everything that you need to stop figuring what they have to say into your opinions. If you're going to pay Fox any attention than you might as well start listening to Voice of Korea too.

Sarah Palin started off the day by comparing being called out on her rhetoric to the historical plight of European Jews.

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Old 01-12-2011, 09:05 PM   #86
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Sam....you are aware than no less than a Harvard educated uberlib like Alan Dershowitz has defended her use of the "blood libel" phrase. I think it's hilarious that a bunch of "balanced, intelligent and rational" uber lib yahoos have gone out of their way to attack Palin and then have the audacity to accuse her of making this about her. Not really sure who WCH thinks is so "intelligent", but it isn't any of Fox's competitors either (tv or print).


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Old 01-12-2011, 09:12 PM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Totenkopf View Post
Sam....you are aware than no less than a Harvard educated uberlib like Alan Dershowitz has defended her use of the "blood libel" phrase. I think it's hilarious that a bunch of "balanced, intelligent and rational" uber lib yahoos have gone out of their way to attack Palin and then have the audacity to accuse her of making this about her. Not really sure who WCH thinks is so "intelligent", but it isn't any of Fox's competitors either (tv or print).
Let's step back from ranting about LIBERALS for a moment, and consider how inappropriate comparing her problems to the historic suffering of an entire race is, while she counts all the money she's raking in from retarded people.

I you think that any other mainstream media source in this country doesn't have better journalistic standards than Fox (HLN has better standards for Christ sake), you really are deluded.
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Old 01-13-2011, 08:27 AM   #88
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Originally Posted by GTA
Used to think that. I thought it meant of liberty and open mindedness.

Then I met someone who claimed as such but were all about censorship and could only cite what they disagreed with. Also this person hung with other people who listened to what he preached endlessly about how the 2nd amendment is outdated, and somesuch blather that "if someone pulled a gun on me I'd do the passivised thing and surrender", and yet ironically that was the first person to go on a power trip when put in charge of a construction project and get physical when things didn't go his way.
I'm sorry that you had this experience, but it seems to me to just be an individual case of a hypocrite. Like I said earlier in this thread, some people are just BAD DUDES. (there mimiartin, you don't have to censor me )

It's sort of like saying: "I don't want to listen to <whatever band> because this guy I hate loves them."

Quote:
I also see the left is doing the same thing. Often more and more. Just to get back at anyone.
Are you speaking about the media? If so, I suppose you're correct. Liberal news organizations do spend too much time sniping at Fox News that could be replaced with actual news coverage.

If we're talking about actual humanity, then I completely disagree. In my experience, I'd rather spend time/work with liberals than with conservatives. They're just more reasonable and more intelligent people.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Totenkopf
I think it's hilarious that a bunch of "balanced, intelligent and rational" uber lib yahoos have gone out of their way to attack Palin and then have the audacity to accuse her of making this about her.
If ANYBODY equates themselves to European Jews, they deserve all the accusations and ridicule humanity can generate.

Quote:
Not really sure who WCH thinks is so "intelligent", but it isn't any of Fox's competitors either (tv or print)
If you want specifics, I've found the Huffington Post and the BBC to be the best news organizations in terms of covering reality.

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Originally Posted by GTA
I didn't Google it, I mushware'd it. You know, that human hardware stuff between your ears.
I'm going to google what this means.
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Old 01-13-2011, 08:49 AM   #89
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Originally Posted by Working Class Hero View Post
If ANYBODY equates themselves to European Jews, they deserve all the accusations and ridicule humanity can generate.
Well, that settles it, holocaust should now be offically retired and or reserved for exclusively one usuage as well by that rationale. Afterall, if Dershowitz has no problem.......

Quote:
If you want specifics, I've found the Huffington Post and the BBC to be the best news organizations in terms of covering reality.

That you can include the huffpo as credible is very amusing.


Now, I want you to remember that no bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor, dumb bastard die for his country.---Patton

There is no room in this country for hyphenated Americanism.---Teddy Roosevelt

I never forget a face, but in your case I'll make an exception.---Groucho

And if you all get killed, I'll piss on your graves.---Shaman Urdnot

How would you like to own a little bit of my foot in your ass.---Red Foreman
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Old 01-13-2011, 09:24 AM   #90
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If you want to call people 'deluded' and 'irrational' go to the Senate where that kind of rude behavior is tolerated. It is not tolerated here. We value civil discussion to share ideas and opinions here so we can learn from each other. We do not value pounding people into the ground with ad hominems to 'win our arguments at any cost, including driving people away'. Thread locked while the moderating team discusses what to do with all this.


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Old 01-13-2011, 11:45 AM   #91
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I’ve cleaned up most of the off topic source arguments; if anyone sees anything else please use the report button and not the reply button. I expected to come back this morning to see the spin from the Memorial Service and everyone’s impression on the President speech instead I get the tired FoxNews arguments.

Reopened thread, please stay on topic. There are other threads about sources in Kavars use them if you wish to continue that argument. If you continue to post in this thread please show a little respect to the OP PastramiX and stay on topic. Now I will go hit myself with 50 lashes for my mistake in mentioning FoxNews. I really thought we had gotten past that… had someone brought up ACORN it would have been just like old times.



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Old 01-13-2011, 12:26 PM   #92
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Caught the aftermath of the speech and Krauthammer seemed overall impressed w/the prez's performance.


Now, I want you to remember that no bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor, dumb bastard die for his country.---Patton

There is no room in this country for hyphenated Americanism.---Teddy Roosevelt

I never forget a face, but in your case I'll make an exception.---Groucho

And if you all get killed, I'll piss on your graves.---Shaman Urdnot

How would you like to own a little bit of my foot in your ass.---Red Foreman
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Old 01-13-2011, 01:10 PM   #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Totenkopf View Post
Caught the aftermath of the speech and Krauthammer seemed overall impressed w/the prez's performance.
I listened to part of it, too, and Obama did a very nice job with a very difficult subject.

Impressing Krauthammer, especially if one is a more liberal Dem like Obama is, is very difficult.


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Old 01-13-2011, 02:20 PM   #94
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Yeah..speaking of that: the Memorial service/President's speech. I was watching all of that last night on the Fo.......*ahem!* ..excuse me! THE NEWS too and was wondering why all of the sudden they decided to make a big thing out of this and hold a national memorial service, along with a presidental speech?

Now I realize a nine year old girl was killed in that senseless act of violence, but there are children everyday, not to mention in the past, in this country who get shot and killed sometimes intentionally or from a stray bullet just from gang violence or someone going postal. What about them? Don't remember ever seeing a memorial service such as this, with a presidental speech, held in their honor.

What makes this event so special, that a memorial service and a president's speech must be held in their honor?

Somebody enligthen me on that.......


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Old 01-13-2011, 02:45 PM   #95
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For those that missed the speech, here is the text and even the video.

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Originally Posted by purifier View Post
What makes this event so special, that a memorial service and a president's speech must be held in their honor?
Yes, Americans and people all over the world are killed every day in senseless violence. No one is saying that the people touched by this tragedy are any more or less special than them. This case isn’t any more tragic or heart wrenching than someone killed by a drunk driver. What does make this tragedy more public is the way it happened and who was involved. That has given this tragedy more media attention and put the events of Arizona into America’s living rooms. An armed gunman shoots up a meeting between a congresswoman and her constituents. BTW members of congress are required by law to meet with their constituents so this type of target is not going away. This is no different than past Presidents giving speeches after tragic events in this nation’s history.


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Old 01-13-2011, 02:48 PM   #96
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It made national news for two reasons.

1) This is the biggest assassination attempt in recent history in the US.
2) All the media buzz over what influenced him.

Gabriel Giffords is a US representative. Judge Roll was a Federal Judge. Honestly at this point the president NOT showing up would be a bad thing.


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Old 01-13-2011, 02:56 PM   #97
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^^^Agreed. He is our president and ought to speak. Just wouldn't be right if he didn't.

@ WCH I'll get this via PM.


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Old 01-13-2011, 03:34 PM   #98
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Obamacare is designed to euthanise native white American descendants of the Jaredites and Obama is Satan's boyfriend.



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Old 01-13-2011, 03:40 PM   #99
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Obamacare is designed to euthanise native white American descendants of the Jaredites and Obama is Satan's boyfriend.
Who let the Westborough Baptist Church in here?


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Old 01-13-2011, 04:07 PM   #100
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It made national news for two reasons.

1) This is the biggest assassination attempt in recent history in the US.
2) All the media buzz over what influenced him.

Gabriel Giffords is a US representative. Judge Roll was a Federal Judge. Honestly at this point the president NOT showing up would be a bad thing.

Didn't know one of the victims was a Federal Judge, that makes a difference to me. I should really pay attention to what's being said in the news these days.




Quote:
Originally Posted by mimartin View Post
Yes, Americans and people all over the world are killed every day in senseless violence. No one is saying that the people touched by this tragedy are any more or less special than them. This case isn’t any more tragic or heart wrenching than someone killed by a drunk driver. What does make this tragedy more public is the way it happened and who was involved. That has given this tragedy more media attention and put the events of Arizona into America’s living rooms. An armed gunman shoots up a meeting between a congresswoman and her constituents. BTW members of congress are required by law to meet with their constituents so this type of target is not going away. This is no different than past Presidents giving speeches after tragic events in this nation’s history.

Yep...I see now, what your saying Mimartin (especially since one of the victims was a Federal Judge).


Thank you both for the info, my bad.


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Old 01-13-2011, 06:55 PM   #101
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Sarah Palin started off the day by comparing being called out on her rhetoric to the historical plight of European Jews.
Yes, compare rhetoric to events of the holocaust. I'm sure that not only European Jews will be offended by her latest remarks.
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Old 01-13-2011, 07:45 PM   #102
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Obamacare is designed to euthanise native white American descendants of the Jaredites


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and Obama is Satan's boyfriend.
Why you Westborough Baptist!


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Old 01-14-2011, 08:05 PM   #103
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Okay, this is ridiculous. I mean honestly people are blaming literally everything Republican. Now, they are blaming SB1070 for the shooting... What the... REALLY? Did I miss something and Laughner was opposed to SB1070, and Giffords was FOR it? Or was it the other way around.

Was it because of his "I hope that you are literate" comments? Because he called his white friends illiterate, which indicates that those comments had little to do with citizenship.

Sheesh. Instead of doing as Obama said and coming together, people are doing EXACTLY what he asked us NOT to do. Using this tragedy to further separate ourselves. The NPR contributor that used it as an opportunity to push her "brown people" agenda. Heck she said that she sighed in relief that it was a "gringo" instead of a Latino last name. Ya know what, I wasn't looking for it to be ANY race.

Besides, that debate(which has NOTHING to do with this crime) was not about Latinos, but about ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION! I know it's a hard concept for her to grasp, but we're FOR legal immigrants. Just, ya know, not a fan of people breaking laws...

So lets run down the list, so far it's been:
The Tea Party
Talk Radio(Rush Limbaugh specifically)
Sarah Palin
And now SB1070?

Sheesh!


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Old 01-14-2011, 09:58 PM   #104
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The Republicans and Tea-Partiers are not the only ones who use target maps and "target" rhetoric.

Giffords was on Daily Kos' "hit list" in 2008 for not being liberal enough.

The Democratic Leadership Council had bullseye targets pasted all over the US map in 2004:


Charles Krauthammer wrote a most insightful article that appeared in the Washington Post today. Since he is a board certified psychiatrist who received his MD from Harvard Medical School, in addition to being a Pulitzer-prize-winning writer, I take his opinion on Loughner's condition seriously, with the caveat that one can't truly diagnose long-distance. That being said, anyone who's taken any kind of abnormal psychology course will recognize that Loughner very likely is a paranoid schizophrenic.

Here is the text of Krauthammer's op-ed column:
Quote:
By Charles Krauthammer
Wednesday, January 12, 2011

The charge: The Tucson massacre is a consequence of the "climate of hate" created by Sarah Palin, the Tea Party, Glenn Beck, Obamacare opponents and sundry other liberal betes noires.

The verdict: Rarely in American political discourse has there been a charge so reckless, so scurrilous and so unsupported by evidence.

As killers go, Jared Loughner is not reticent. Yet among all his writings, postings, videos and other ravings - and in all the testimony from all the people who knew him - there is not a single reference to any of these supposed accessories to murder.

Not only is there no evidence that Loughner was impelled to violence by any of those upon whom Paul Krugman, Keith Olbermann, the New York Times, the Tucson sheriff and other rabid partisans are fixated. There is no evidence that he was responding to anything, political or otherwise, outside of his own head.

A climate of hate? This man lived within his very own private climate. "His thoughts were unrelated to anything in our world," said the teacher of Loughner's philosophy class at Pima Community College. "He was very disconnected from reality," said classmate Lydian Ali. "You know how it is when you talk to someone who's mentally ill and they're just not there?" said neighbor Jason Johnson. "It was like he was in his own world."

His ravings, said one high school classmate, were interspersed with "unnerving, long stupors of silence" during which he would "stare fixedly at his buddies," reported the Wall Street Journal. His own writings are confused, incoherent, punctuated with private numerology and inscrutable taxonomy. He warns of government brainwashing and thought control through "grammar." He was obsessed with "conscious dreaming," a fairly good synonym for hallucinations.

This is not political behavior. These are the signs of a clinical thought disorder - ideas disconnected from each other, incoherent, delusional, detached from reality.

These are all the hallmarks of a paranoid schizophrenic. And a dangerous one. A classmate found him so terrifyingly mentally disturbed that, she e-mailed friends and family, she expected to find his picture on TV after his perpetrating a mass murder. This was no idle speculation: In class "I sit by the door with my purse handy" so that she could get out fast when the shooting began.

Furthermore, the available evidence dates Loughner's fixation on Rep. Gabrielle Giffords to at least 2007, when he attended a town hall of hers and felt slighted by her response. In 2007, no one had heard of Sarah Palin. Glenn Beck was still toiling on Headline News. There was no Tea Party or health-care reform. The only climate of hate was the pervasive post-Iraq campaign of vilification of George W. Bush, nicely captured by a New Republic editor who had begun an article thus: "I hate President George W. Bush. There, I said it."

Finally, the charge that the metaphors used by Palin and others were inciting violence is ridiculous. Everyone uses warlike metaphors in describing politics. When Barack Obama said at a 2008 fundraiser in Philadelphia, "If they bring a knife to the fight, we bring a gun," he was hardly inciting violence.

Why? Because fighting and warfare are the most routine of political metaphors. And for obvious reasons. Historically speaking, all democratic politics is a sublimation of the ancient route to power - military conquest. That's why the language persists. That's why we say without any self-consciousness such things as "battleground states" or "targeting" opponents. Indeed, the very word for an electoral contest - "campaign" - is an appropriation from warfare.

When profiles of Obama's first chief of staff, Rahm Emanuel, noted that he once sent a dead fish to a pollster who displeased him, a characteristically subtle statement carrying more than a whiff of malice and murder, it was considered a charming example of excessive - and creative - political enthusiasm. When Senate candidate Joe Manchin dispensed with metaphor and simply fired a bullet through the cap-and-trade bill - while intoning, "I'll take dead aim at [it]" - he was hardly assailed with complaints about violations of civil discourse or invitations to murder.

Did Manchin push Loughner over the top? Did Emanuel's little Mafia imitation create a climate for political violence? The very questions are absurd - unless you're the New York Times and you substitute the name Sarah Palin.

The origins of Loughner's delusions are clear: mental illness. What are the origins of Krugman's?
(link here)

Loughner is, rather bluntly, bat-sh#t crazy. Blaming it on Palin, the Daily Kos, or anyone else BUT Loughner is ill-informed at best and disingenuous at worst.


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Old 01-14-2011, 09:59 PM   #105
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@TC: I see the pro-2nd Amendment/NRA types being added (despite Giffords being pro-gun) and maybe even the 1st Amendment as well (which encompasses the first 3 on your list).

@Jae--I especially liked that last line in the piece.


Now, I want you to remember that no bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor, dumb bastard die for his country.---Patton

There is no room in this country for hyphenated Americanism.---Teddy Roosevelt

I never forget a face, but in your case I'll make an exception.---Groucho

And if you all get killed, I'll piss on your graves.---Shaman Urdnot

How would you like to own a little bit of my foot in your ass.---Red Foreman

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Old 01-14-2011, 10:04 PM   #106
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Yea, Yea all liberals are blaming the Republicans and the poor right wing is not blaming the liberals. Guess someone forgot to send the memo to Rush.


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Old 01-15-2011, 12:13 AM   #107
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Most of what I've seen and heard has been the right slamming the left for the sleazy move of immediately pinning the shooting on "right-wing rhetoric". The "left" can't really complain when they cast the first stone. But seriously, who's saying ALL liberals anyway.. it's mostly the professional left-wing punditry and political types that keep picking this fight.


Now, I want you to remember that no bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor, dumb bastard die for his country.---Patton

There is no room in this country for hyphenated Americanism.---Teddy Roosevelt

I never forget a face, but in your case I'll make an exception.---Groucho

And if you all get killed, I'll piss on your graves.---Shaman Urdnot

How would you like to own a little bit of my foot in your ass.---Red Foreman
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Old 01-15-2011, 07:44 AM   #108
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This thread is a wonderful example of just how pervasive the propaganda has become throughout the media; on both the left and right.

It's almost as if they want us to start killing each other.

On the bright side, maybe this incident will cause some people to realize that their own vaunted news source is just as full of crap as the one that they've been deriding ad nauseam.


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Old 01-15-2011, 08:56 AM   #109
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Originally Posted by Totenkopf View Post
Most of what I've seen and heard...
Perhaps Evil Q is correct, but it is our own bias that let us see and hear only what we want to see and hear.


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Old 01-15-2011, 09:37 AM   #110
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On the bright side, maybe this incident will cause some people to realize that their own vaunted news source is just as full of crap as the one that they've been deriding ad nauseam.
I can't stand the national "news" outlets in the U.S. Once upon a time they may have been just news stations, but now they're not anything resembling journalists.

Typically I get my news from the AP or Reuters or I've even been known to listen to the BBC from time to time...I find much less rhetoric and opinion in these sources.

@thread: While I'm not opposed to the thought that words can be powerful enough to influence people...the people that those words would influence to commit violent acts have to already be unstable imo. As was pointed out by the article that Jae posted Loughner was already nuts...nobody drove him to this except the voices his own delusional head.


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Old 01-15-2011, 09:45 AM   #111
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Well, seeing as how I've heard from "both" sides, I guess they're all arguably full of crap. Personal biases notwithstanding, being first out the gate to pin the event on someone's rhetoric (used by both sides, really....see Jae's piece by Krauthammer), doesn't give that side the moral highground to complain when the other side fires back. It would be nice (though maybe boring) if both sides could get along w/o this fractious bs getting in the way of doing the "peoples' work".


Now, I want you to remember that no bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor, dumb bastard die for his country.---Patton

There is no room in this country for hyphenated Americanism.---Teddy Roosevelt

I never forget a face, but in your case I'll make an exception.---Groucho

And if you all get killed, I'll piss on your graves.---Shaman Urdnot

How would you like to own a little bit of my foot in your ass.---Red Foreman
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Old 01-15-2011, 10:31 AM   #112
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(..see Jae's piece by Krauthammer)
Not exactly an unbiased source when you consider Rush wanted to name his future child after the man, well until now. Seems once you say something nice and accurate about a liberal you get on Rush’s crap list.


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Old 01-15-2011, 12:21 PM   #113
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Oh mim, I could easily have thrown out the things that the conservatives have blamed it on, but those are pretty much on talk radio, and not really making it to CNN.

Here's what the Conservatives have blamed
Mental disorder(pretty much steadily)
Drug use(makes more sense than blaming Palin)
Liberals(thanks Rush)
Liberal media(thanks Rush)
His lack of religion(Thanks Rush)
Music(thanks again Rush).

But honestly what most of the talking heads on the conservative side have been doing(Rush aside) is saying "Woah there buddy. Take a look at yourselves before you start blaming us. This guy was a nutjob. Politics didn't have anything to do with it." Just as I've done here. We've been on the defensive from the start. Conservatives have been the ones attacked repeatedly. I haven't heard the conservatives actually attack anyone so much as say, "It doesn't make sense to blame us, he was called Liberal by his friend." At most conservatives have called Laughner a Liberal(which is not true, but an understandable mistake).

That's been my point through this entire thread. Blaming it on a political party is completely irresponsible until you can validate that he had a connection to that party. And as more news has come out, we have seen nothing to connect him to conservatives(or Liberals, but since this thread started out being hostile to Conservatives, and nearly every accusation has been from the Left...). Nothing to connect him to the Tea Party. Nothing to connect him to the "gunsights" posted in the top level.

Quite frankly it would be nice if those who used this as an opportunity to bash the conservatives would be big enough to admit they were wrong. But they won't because SOMEHOW it had to be the conservatives' pervasive hate speech that pushed Laughner to do this. In their minds conservatives are such a wrong in this world that it's okay to throw poo at them whether true or not. In other words, they are Rush Limbaughs of the Left.


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Old 01-15-2011, 01:01 PM   #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mimartin View Post
Not exactly an unbiased source when you consider Rush wanted to name his future child after the man, well until now. Seems once you say something nice and accurate about a liberal you get on Rush’s crap list.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CK
In a guest post on National Review's The Corner blog, Krauthammer explains this is the just result he'd been hoping for. "Now you know why I returned Rush’s volley on Fox last night: I’ve just saved that poor little girl a world of hurt."
At least he's got a sense of humor. His criticisms are valid, though, regardless of whatever bias you seem to think he has. Still, I believe I saw him a few weeks ago say he'd probably lost his conservative "street cred" over something else he praised/agreed w/BO over (don't remember specific issue).


Now, I want you to remember that no bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor, dumb bastard die for his country.---Patton

There is no room in this country for hyphenated Americanism.---Teddy Roosevelt

I never forget a face, but in your case I'll make an exception.---Groucho

And if you all get killed, I'll piss on your graves.---Shaman Urdnot

How would you like to own a little bit of my foot in your ass.---Red Foreman
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Old 01-15-2011, 01:22 PM   #115
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This thread is a wonderful example of just how pervasive the propaganda has become throughout the media; on both the left and right.
(emphasis mine here)
I totally agree. Had this been a Republican that got shot, I'm sure the GOP would have done exactly the same and posted the DLC target map all over the net.

The only reason I posted that was to show that the Dems were utilizing this to try to slam the Tea-Partiers. Had the situation been reversed, however, I have no illusions that the far right would have used it to slam liberal Dems, too. I think if that had been the case, Krauthammer would have slammed the GOP for doing that, too. He may have gotten more conservative as he gains years, but he's nothing if not honest in his assessments.

It's a sad commentary on today's "journalism".


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Old 01-16-2011, 12:27 AM   #116
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We've been on the defensive from the start.
Lolz.
It never ceases to amaze me how the right is always the victim.


Quote:
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Caught the aftermath of the speech and Krauthammer seemed overall impressed w/the prez's performance.
I'm sorry, but I have to say this:

The very first post you made about the speech was about what somebody else thought of it. Believe it or not, if I wanted to know Krauthammer thought about it I would go to his site.
I want to know what you think about it.

--I didn't really think the speech was that great, to be honest. I understand fully that da prez has to make a public showing, since a congresswoman almost died, but I don't really care about the other people. I'm sorry, but people die all the time and in greater numbers.

At times, I felt like I was hearing George W speak. Obama really tried that American patriotism rhetoric, which always leaves me feeling ill.
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Old 01-16-2011, 12:44 AM   #117
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Old 01-16-2011, 12:52 AM   #118
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Uh....I guess you're being serious asking if I'm not being serious?

Unless my dictionary and history professors have failed me, we (America) have a constitutional republic, not a democracy.
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Old 01-16-2011, 02:10 AM   #119
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Unless my dictionary and history professors have failed me, we (America) have a constitutional republic, not a democracy.
I think your president is referring to democracy as in the doctrine and not the hard-and-fast political system, duder.

Besides, America is the world's largest exporter of freedom and democracy, everyone knows that.


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Old 01-16-2011, 11:30 AM   #120
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Quote:
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I'm sorry, but I have to say this:

The very first post you made about the speech was about what somebody else thought of it. Believe it or not, if I wanted to know Krauthammer thought about it I would go to his site.
I want to know what you think about it.
Well, this is what I posted after and was responding to specifically:
Quote:
Originally Posted by mim
I’ve cleaned up most of the off topic source arguments; if anyone sees anything else please use the report button and not the reply button. I expected to come back this morning to see the spin from the Memorial Service and everyone’s impression on the President speech instead I get the tired FoxNews arguments.
Since I obviously missed the speech, I couldn't have posted my own impression of it anyway.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wch
Unless my dictionary and history professors have failed me, we (America) have a constitutional republic, not a democracy.
I find that mistake annoying as well.


Now, I want you to remember that no bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor, dumb bastard die for his country.---Patton

There is no room in this country for hyphenated Americanism.---Teddy Roosevelt

I never forget a face, but in your case I'll make an exception.---Groucho

And if you all get killed, I'll piss on your graves.---Shaman Urdnot

How would you like to own a little bit of my foot in your ass.---Red Foreman
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