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Old 12-14-2012, 08:13 PM   #1
Scorge
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Unhappy Shooting in Newtown, CT, 20 children and 6 Adults Dead

http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2012/12/14...ool/?hpt=hp_t1

This is absolutely unbelievable, its so sad to hear about his, a 24 year old shooting kids from 1st to 4th grade. Especially adults, whom saved many of the children during the shooting. I couldn't help but cry about this, as did our President of the United States, Barack Obama. Most [Or All] of those adults whose children died during the shooting probably hoped to see their children have joy on their faces when opening Christmas presents. This is such a tragedy. God bless of of these people who died during the shooting, R.I.P

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Old 12-14-2012, 08:21 PM   #2
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There was also shooting at Clackamas Town Center in Portland, Oregon (about 20 minute drive from my home) on Tuesday as well. What's up with these shootings?


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Old 12-14-2012, 09:02 PM   #3
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Don't get me started on how I feel about Obama's reaction to this.

I for one, am more angry than sad that this sadistic ****ing piece of **** killed 20 children - who were looking forward for Christmas and enjoying life. Why would someone do that? It's ****ing sick and just plain wrong and horrifying.



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Old 12-14-2012, 10:41 PM   #4
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This is freaking horrible.
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Don't get me started on how I feel about Obama's reaction to this.
What do you mean?


"They should rename the team to the Washington Government Sucks. Put Obama on the helmet. Line the entire walls of the stadium with the actual text of the ACA.
Fix their home team score on the board to the debt clock, they can win every game 17,000,000,000,000 to 24. Losing team gets taxed by the IRS 100%, then droned."
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Old 12-14-2012, 10:57 PM   #5
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Old 12-14-2012, 11:16 PM   #6
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Quote:
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What do you mean?
He pretends to cry about the school shooting, yet he has no qualms about bombing innocent men, women, and children in Pakistan, Libya, Yemen, Afghanistan, Iraq, and Palestine.

It isn't my attention to shift the discussion. Give your replies and then try to bring it back to the topic at hand.



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Old 12-15-2012, 12:29 AM   #7
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Can't imagine how it must be for Ryan Lanza. Dude got ID'd initially and his name (and Facebook profile pic) plastered on websites and newspapers all over the world. Internet hate machine started systematically demolishing his life, and THEN it turns out it was his autistic younger brother who did the shooting.

Imagine that, sitting in your office with a CNN tab open, and suddenly the newscaster announces the suspect as you. I imagine more than a few liquids would trade places.

It's a tragedy for every possible person involved.


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Old 12-15-2012, 12:51 AM   #8
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Disturbing to say the least. Some of the victims this time were too young, waaaay too young. Hope to god these shootings aren't going to be a trend. All of this is starting to get depressing.


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Old 12-15-2012, 01:51 AM   #9
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Don't forget what happened in China with the 22 kids stabbed today as well.

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Old 12-15-2012, 02:07 AM   #10
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Ahh good, Fox blames video games and Facebook. Was starting to worried for a moment there.

Aaaand fantastic, a mob is ripping apart Mass Effect on Facebook now for a reason *other* than the ending. Guess why. Gallery of comments



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Old 12-15-2012, 02:52 AM   #11
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These were just children. Their futures robbed from them. I can only imagine what their families are going through.

Thoughts and prayers for the victims and their families.


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Old 12-15-2012, 04:12 AM   #12
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Don't ya just love the "blame game".... More grist for the gun control debate, though, I'm guessing (what w/the recent mall shooting). Still, as the incident in China points out, take away peoples' access to guns somehow and any sickos will still find a way to get their victims (knives, bombs, etc...).

@sabre--the not swooning over Tali post was kind of funny.

@purifier--yes, it is sad. Damn shame these shooters don't try that crap vs armed people who can help them suicide w/much less to no collateral damage. That said, if they can't self-commit, damn shame they just don't take themselves out w/o killing others. But, then I guess they'd just be suicidally depressed and not bat**** crazy.


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Old 12-15-2012, 04:20 AM   #13
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http://www.cnn.com/2012/12/14/justic...ile/index.html

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A member of Lanza's family told investigators that he had a form of autism, according to a law enforcement official, who spoke under condition of anonymity due to the sensitive nature of the investigation.


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Old 12-15-2012, 04:59 AM   #14
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Jeez, since Columbine, it's like the fashionable way for troubled people to kill themselves is to have a rampage in an educational institute.

With more and more of these happening, and media coverage of them, I fear It's only going to get worse.

My condolences to everyone involved in this. I can't imagine what it must be like for the children who saw their peers be murdered.



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Old 12-15-2012, 05:35 AM   #15
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Disturbing to say the least. Some of the victims this time were too young, waaaay too young. Hope to god these shootings aren't going to be a trend. All of this is starting to get depressing.
It's sad, but I find that any life, no matter what age, ended by being shot is very sad. I hope someday the USA will vote for far more controle on the selling of guns.

It won't stop hard criminals getting their gear, but it would make it far more difficult. I think it would also put a big stop to these tragic blind rage shootings, depressed and stressed people do.

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Don't ya just love the "blame game".... More grist for the gun control debate, though, I'm guessing (what w/the recent mall shooting). Still, as the incident in China points out, take away peoples' access to guns somehow and any sickos will still find a way to get their victims (knives, bombs, etc...).
Certain people will always find a way to harm others. But at least you can make it damn difficult for them to get lethal equipment. So that they don't massacre a whole class. Like I said above, it would stop these people in emotional turmoil to do something this bad.

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But, then I guess they'd just be suicidally depressed and not bat**** crazy.
I fought with severe depression a few months back. At certain times I felt a lot of rage against myself, but also just the world outside. I can tell you it was a very strong feeling. I wasn't completely myself either. I wouldn't have put a button for a bomb under my finger at that time.

Anyway, enough of about me.

I feel for the families. Hope they my find some piece and anwsers after the media storm.


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Old 12-15-2012, 07:33 AM   #16
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@Shem--yeah, saw something about that a few moments ago. It's unfortunate that it's often impossible to know what will ultimately set someone off, whatever their mental state. All you can do is watch for clues and hope to catch it before it goes too far.

@Quanon--problem with gun control is that it doesn't really work very well. Taking into consideration that gun ownership (like free speech) is in the Constitution, arguments for and against it become quite heated here. Also, when you consider how poorly prohibition worked (never mind the current "war on drugs"), too much regulation would likely lead to a thriving black market for guns. Anyway, sorry to hear about your bout, but good to know you've weathered it intact. Hope it's behind you and that these families can find some measure of peace down the road.


Now, I want you to remember that no bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor, dumb bastard die for his country.---Patton

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Old 12-15-2012, 04:21 PM   #17
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@Quanon--problem with gun control is that it doesn't really work very well. Taking into consideration that gun ownership (like free speech) is in the Constitution, arguments for and against it become quite heated here. Also, when you consider how poorly prohibition worked (never mind the current "war on drugs"), too much regulation would likely lead to a thriving black market for guns.
Mhm, I know it's a hot 'pickle' in the US to talk about guns. And what to do with it legaly. And true, it won't stop it all, prohibition being a nice example of taking it to far. Though it was a differant time. There's more involved then only these tragic shootings. There's the accidents to consider aswell. I don't know any numbers, but a lot of people get killed by guns in the USA. And most of them I think aren't really with 'evil' or 'mad' purpose.

I do know, it happens a lot less here in Europe. It does happen, even here in Belgium. Though I can count that on 1 hand.

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Anyway, sorry to hear about your bout, but good to know you've weathered it intact. Hope it's behind you and that these families can find some measure of peace down the road.
Thanks, it's a struggle, but I found a lot of help, by family and by going to therapy.


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Old 12-15-2012, 04:50 PM   #18
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on lithuanian news l herd abaut it sad day it is


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Old 12-15-2012, 05:22 PM   #19
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@purifier--yes, it is sad. Damn shame these shooters don't try that crap vs armed people who can help them suicide w/much less to no collateral damage. That said, if they can't self-commit, damn shame they just don't take themselves out w/o killing others. But, then I guess they'd just be suicidally depressed and not bat**** crazy.
Funny you should mention that. Check this out.......

http://thinkprogress.org/justice/201...bama-hospital/

Found this on the web, so I don't know much more about it, but I'm still digging to find out more. Anyway, if it's true, looks like things turned out a little better for once in this case. Of course this shooting or any other shooting never should happen at all, but that's only in a perfect world.




Quote:
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It's sad, but I find that any life, no matter what age, ended by being shot is very sad. I hope someday the USA will vote for far more controle on the selling of guns.

It won't stop hard criminals getting their gear, but it would make it far more difficult. I think it would also put a big stop to these tragic blind rage shootings, depressed and stressed people do.
Your right, Quanon. The death by a bullet on any human life at any age is sad. But when it's children, I guess it just seems that much worse for me. As for the whole gun control argument, I rarely argue about that anymore. That is a endless argument we often have here in the U.S. that really goes nowhere, from my perspective. I have nothing more to say about it these days.


BTW, sorry to hear about your period of depression. Been there myself, many times. Funny thing though, meditation seemed to cure me of a lot of negative thinking these days. It's an usual way to combat depression, or I thought so, but it worked in the long run for me.


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Old 12-15-2012, 06:56 PM   #20
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people are quick to blame gun control when it really is up to the mental health department. Ever since clinton left, it's been on the decline and thus psychopaths like this are out on the streets instead of in a hospital.

My prayers go to all of the families, such a monstrosity will affect them the rest of their lives.
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Old 12-16-2012, 02:39 AM   #21
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It's a tragic year indeed.

I don't believe gun control is a viable solution to a problem like this in the US. In other countries it may be much more effective, but when you consider the countless millions of firearms that are in private circulation in the US, it would be impossible to collect even a fraction of them. The only ones that would give them away would be those who are willing to submit to the law, and it would leave a bunch of nutjobs sitting on private arsenals, waiting to take advantage of the situation.

It deeply disturbes me though, that the society we live in obsesses so much with violence that it is hatebreeding all of these desensitized psychopaths with zero regard for life in any form. Something is terribly wrong at a base-level to be causing such happenings.
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Old 12-16-2012, 09:55 PM   #22
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shouldn't this be in kavar's corner? Considering how this is a very important topic and all, and pretty serious
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Old 12-16-2012, 10:18 PM   #23
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Hm... I'm not sure exactly where, but I'm thinking it was in Jonesboro, AR that there was another shooting recently... I could be wrong that it was Jonesboro, I just know it was somewhere here in the "Hospitality" state...

Then after hearing about this, someone told me a story that made me laugh my ass off and made me feel bad because it was on the news still and people thought I was laughing at the shooting. Apparently one of the McDonalds here in my home city had an African American woman come in and pay with a twenty dollar bill... the kid behind the counter checked to make sure it was real, because (as a future McDonalds employee starting tomorrow, I read the handbook and...) all McDonald's employees are asked to mark any bill over a 10. The woman went completely lunatic like... screaming it was because she was black that he checked to see if it was counterfeit, ect... then she jumped over the counter and started beating the kid. Another employee was entering after mopping or whatever so he/she started beating the woman on the back to try and get her off and then her friend jumped over the counter and started beating up the other one...

Sometimes I look back at the world and wonder... why the hell are we so crazy? Oh yeah... because people jump to conclusions over the smallest things.


Regarding the shooting, from what I heard (or perhaps misinterpreted)... the kid's mom worked there and he went to erradicate that which she loved most as a means of revenge for whatever happened. I also heard that he murded his father in New Jersey, I believe it is... though that could be false information. This kid was obviously unstable... (not that that's really an excuse for the atrocity that he committed.)


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Old 12-17-2012, 03:36 PM   #24
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Sadly there is a lot of misinformation being thrown out there. The father is either alive, or very articulate for a zombie.

As to the gun control debate: This shouldn't be a gun control debate. The most recent shootings that I know of all have a common thread. The person was very smart, but had severe mental issues. The firearm may have added to the massacre, or it may have made him pick a large sword. Maybe a crossbow. Perhaps rather than train with a firearm, he would have trained with a bow. Heck I used to do a bit of damage with a slingshot. No matter what gets banned, someone will make another weapon that isn't banned, but just as deadly. What we need is better security at schools. Possibly even a repeal of all firearm laws, so we can make a new set of actually enforceable laws that don't contradict each other, or include feel good rules on how a weapon looks as opposed to how it operates.

Too many people also misunderstand the laws as it is.

What weapons does the assault weapon ban actually affect? Not assault rifles. Would you call a shotgun an assault weapon? if it has a pistol grip, and either a folding stock or a vertical forward grip, it is. A .308 rifle for hunting isn't an assault weapon right? If it has a detachable magazine, pistol grip, folding stock, or any of a few other random appearance modifications. How about an AK 47 semiauto? That's definitely an assault weapon right? Not if it has the wooden stock and a mag lock and the bayonet attachment removed. I said semiauto, because new selective fire weapons(Actual Assault Rifles) and machine guns are already banned for sale as of May 19, 1986(signed into law by Ronald Reagan as an amendment to the FOPA). Only those manufactured prior to may 19 1986 may be transferred to another party. There are illegal Assault Rifles out there. And they are for sale cheaper than the legal version in stores.


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Old 12-19-2012, 05:01 PM   #25
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He pretends to cry about the school shooting, yet he has no qualms about bombing innocent men, women, and children in Pakistan, Libya, Yemen, Afghanistan, Iraq, and Palestine.
Or using a remote-control drone to perform the summary execution of a 16-year-old American citizen.


"They should rename the team to the Washington Government Sucks. Put Obama on the helmet. Line the entire walls of the stadium with the actual text of the ACA.
Fix their home team score on the board to the debt clock, they can win every game 17,000,000,000,000 to 24. Losing team gets taxed by the IRS 100%, then droned."
-Toker

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Old 12-19-2012, 05:45 PM   #26
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give me a break...The 16 year old was killed, but in the attack that killed him was successfully after Ibrahim al-Banna. You know a member of Al Qaeda the people that attacked us on 9/11. Sad the kid was there, but had his dad not been a traitor to his country and stupid enough to put his son in harms way to use him as a human shield for Ibrahim al-Banna, the 16 year old may still be alive. The kid was not the target.


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Old 12-19-2012, 05:56 PM   #27
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The father was already confirmed dead when that attack was made. The father may or may not have been a legitimate target for assassination, but the son certainly wasn't.

Both of them were US citizens, BTW.


"They should rename the team to the Washington Government Sucks. Put Obama on the helmet. Line the entire walls of the stadium with the actual text of the ACA.
Fix their home team score on the board to the debt clock, they can win every game 17,000,000,000,000 to 24. Losing team gets taxed by the IRS 100%, then droned."
-Toker
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Old 12-19-2012, 06:14 PM   #28
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Both of them were US citizens, BTW.
wouldn't have said traitor had I not known that.

Also as far as I know Ibrahim al-Banna was not the father... he was the target killed when the kid was killed.


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Old 12-20-2012, 12:57 AM   #29
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I hope none of you here play Mass Effect 3, Call of Duty: Black Ops 2, Dynasty Warriors or StarCraft 2, you monsters.


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Old 12-20-2012, 01:00 AM   #30
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I guess I'm a massive monster. I play everything but StarCraft 2.

Although... I gotta say, had he stabbed the kids would people be blaming kitchen utensils? No. That would be stupid. I don't understand why people immediately blame guns and video games.


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Old 12-20-2012, 07:59 AM   #31
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I hope none of you here play Mass Effect 3, Call of Duty: Black Ops 2, Dynasty Warriors or StarCraft 2, you monsters.
Luckily I don't play any of those. There was a girl who was the little sister of one of the victims and she wrote a letter to President Obama, see for yourself.

http://www.cnn.com/video/?hpt=hp_c2#...er-newtown.cnn


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Old 12-20-2012, 11:13 AM   #32
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Well, I guess I am a monster then, although I don't play Black Ops 2 and dynasty warriors
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Old 12-20-2012, 01:19 PM   #33
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Violent video games, Violent movies, access to firearms... all of these things get the blame. Whether any of them are worthy of the blame remains to be seen, McVey had none of those things and killed more people than Lanza. I would say that the Gun Free zones can soak up some of the blame too. Plenty to go around.


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Old 12-21-2012, 11:33 AM   #34
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Using the same unsubstantiated logic as those in Washington that want to blame video games, I am going to illogically state video games don’t kill, vidya saves lives. Crazy Bob who has the desire to shoot up the local Sizzler because they over cooked his t-bone, instead gets on his 360 and a shoot up geth instead. After his anger is satisfied he goes to the kitchen for a Twinkie for desert, returning angry and looking for someone to kill he fires up the 360 again.

I don’t really think violet video games, violent movies or even firearms are to blame. The person was mentally ill, the system is not designed to stop one person from a totally random act of violence and personally I would not want to live in a society that was designed to stop such as it would take away too many of the freedoms we take for granted every day. I happen to agree with the NRA in that people kill people, gun do not kill people. I also see firearms as a tool. That said, firearms and especially high capacity clips allow such random acts of violence to be more deadly and I see no reason high capacity clips should remain legal. If you can’t hit your target in 3 to 9 shots, 1. You are not protecting yourself, but are a danger to everyone around you. 2. Find another hobby. 3. Use a shotgun as self protection, but make sure I am behind you before you pull the trigger.


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Old 12-21-2012, 12:10 PM   #35
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I don't think limiting the magazines will be of much use. Exchanging out a magazine is very quick(Oh and DROP AND GIVE ME 20 FOR CALLING A MAGAZINE A CLIP!). 10 round magazines mean you know to fire 9, drop mag, fire 10, drop mag... Don't get me wrong, I'm a huge fan of not wasting shots, and my primary defense pistol only has an 8 round mag, but if you really think about it, the 100 round mag that the shooter in Portland was actually his undoing, as he had either an FTF or FTE that caused a jam. Because he had such a large mag, he didn't carry more than the one. He HAD to take more time to clear the jam. Smaller mags you carry more of them. drop mag, rack, pop new mag in, rack, able to fire. The thing of it is though, every situation is different. If you were a store owner during a riot, you might want more than 10 rounds at a time.

At any rate, I couldn't agree with you more about the blame.

I say limit the civilians to whatever the President's security detail is allowed to carry. If it's good enough for all of us, it's good enough for him.


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Last edited by Tommycat; 12-21-2012 at 12:31 PM. Reason: Stupid me got lost and sidetracked in thoughts.
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Old 12-21-2012, 12:53 PM   #36
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Yeah if you are trained, then the clip isn't much of a issue. Thing is most of the crazies using them are not trained. While stopping you as a vet or someone trained in law enforcement or security may be difficult while they reload, covering the ground to stop someone that is just crazy with no formal training will be made easier when they reload.

Just talking personally as someone with no formal training, but have been around firearms my entire life. Most likely you would be able to easily stop me reloading all the weapons I own, except a single shot shotgun. I am very proficient and loading and unloading it, as I have used it since I was 7 years old. I can fire, clear and reload it before the dove hits the ground.

Let me revise that statement, I can fire, clear and safely reload it before the dove hits the ground. My dad was very much fanatical about teaching gun safety. Which is a good thing...He was a US Marine, so my firearm training is 2nd hand Marine training.



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Old 12-21-2012, 02:41 PM   #37
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Very true. I do forget at times that while I can reload an AR almost as fast as I can shoot it, someone else may not be able to reload in the time it takes to rush them. But a .223 goes a long ways. Again, I point that the nutjob in Portland, had the 100 rd magazine. It jammed(a common failing with large capacity magazines), and he didn't have another magazine to swap.

The thing that worries me though. THIS

They are out there. And will continue to be out there even after the ban.


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Old 12-21-2012, 04:27 PM   #38
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I kind of want to go back to the kids killed on subject. This line has been going through my head for a week now.

"It's a hell of a thing, killing a man. You take away all he's got and all he's ever going to have."



I have been hearing a lot about arming teachers, sorry I think this is stupid for the majority of teachers. I know some could do it, but others are going to hesitate. Many are teachers because they have a nurturing nature. This will most likely make the hesitate in the use of deadly force. In that situation, hesitation could cost them their life, but could also give the crazy another gun.

I don't think I could take a life unless it was to protect another life (that was not my own). Don't get me wrong, I have killed animals hunting, a horse and cows because they were suffering, but that is entire different from taking a human life. That said, in the case similar to this one where taking a life would save kids in my charge, I don't believe I would hesitate, but nobody knows for sure unless they are in that situation. I hope none of us are never in a situation to find out.


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Old 12-21-2012, 05:08 PM   #39
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I'm not sure how I feel about arming teachers...I certainly wouldn't mandate it. BUT I know a few teachers who are CCWL holders and former military. One of whom carries his weapon on school grounds even though it's a violation. You'd never know it, because the only time he would take it out is in a situation where lives depended on it. So, perhaps allow teachers to make the choice as to whether they carry, and they must obtain similar training to police officers and yearly quals to keep the "School Carry" license.

I agree with you about the difficulty of taking a life. Though, I'm pretty sure most people would lose their empathy for someone who just gunned down a 6 year old, still it takes a rigid mind to take out a firearm, aim at a person, and pull that trigger. God willing, I never have to fire. But if I draw down on someone, I will fire if it's clear. If you aren't willing to kill them, don't even bother pulling the firearm.

I would prefer to see police officers at schools, or even returning vets. My school had two police officers at all times. I mean come on. We can have a police officer at every dang Walmart to protect the "Made in China" stuff that they sell, but can't afford to send ONE or TWO to protect the CHILDREN? Something is fundamentally wrong. And having a police officer there means you can have a faster response than dialing 911. When you dial 911, it takes 3 minutes for the first cop to respond, and up to 20 minutes to arrive on scene. When an officer calls in shots fired, the average response is 7 minutes. Still a long time, but better than 20, and you do already have at least one on scene.

We have fire extinguishers, sprinklers, fireproof doors, emergency lighting, alarms, and a whole slew of protections from fire in every school I mean even the walls are built of a material that will not burn. And not ONE child has died of a fire in a school in over 50 years. What protections from criminals have we put in to schools?


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Old 12-21-2012, 06:36 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tommycat View Post
I'm not sure how I feel about arming teachers...I certainly wouldn't mandate it. BUT I know a few teachers who are CCWL holders and former military. One of whom carries his weapon on school grounds even though it's a violation. You'd never know it, because the only time he would take it out is in a situation where lives depended on it. So, perhaps allow teachers to make the choice as to whether they carry, and they must obtain similar training to police officers and yearly quals to keep the "School Carry" license.
I have a bunch of friends that are teachers, most I would have no problem being around knowing they had a concealed handgun (which is saying something as I don't even like being around police officers that are armed and I am very strict about who I go hunting with). Many of them have permits, however the permit, at least in Texas, is worthless. It is even easier to get than a dog license. I have one too. Some of the teachers I know I will not even ride with them in a car because they are so hesitant entering a freeway that they scare me. I don't even want to think of them with a firearm.


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