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Old 04-03-2011, 07:38 PM   #41
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Star Wars movies do not have the same content as a movie directly aimed at kids. Name the last time you saw a movie clearly directed at children that had war, torture, implied incest, bodily mutilation, and so on.
It painfully obliviously that you sir have never watched Looney Tunes.
Star Wars (and Looney Tunes) had implied incest? What?
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Old 04-03-2011, 07:40 PM   #42
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Star Wars (and Looney Tunes) had implied incest? What?
I'm assuming he means Luke and Leia. I'm drawing a blank on the Looney Tunes, though.

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Old 04-03-2011, 08:16 PM   #43
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Star Wars movies do not have the same content as a movie directly aimed at kids. Name the last time you saw a movie clearly directed at children that had war, torture, implied incest, bodily mutilation, and so on.
I'll post this again, since you may be confused:

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It is. At least the same way as the series is.



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Old 04-03-2011, 08:32 PM   #44
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I'm assuming he means Luke and Leia. I'm drawing a blank on the Looney Tunes, though.
No so much incest in Looney Tunes, instead Looney Tunes have cross-dressing plus the rest of the list.
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Old 04-03-2011, 10:23 PM   #45
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And the Genndy' series did that since when?
It happened when we saw an actual war in it, full scale battles for control of the relevant systems, we saw Grievous turning the tide of the war, we saw Anakin getting closer to the Darkside, we saw Anakin being Knighted and his growth, we saw how Sidious final stroke played effectively putting everything in place for ROTS.

Instead of, poor R2 is lost!!! we gotta risk everything to get the little droid back.

Sorry, but the entire thing is cringe worthy, and i saw more than enough to learn that, your sarcasm is unnecessary.
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Old 04-03-2011, 11:11 PM   #46
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If Star Wars died now, it'd be dying just as the 13 year wait for Crimson Empire III is coming to an end. Kir Kanos is too badass to not get a proper ending (cue 'moan moan overpowered moan moan glorified stormtrooper'. I'd say the training he got justifies his skill at killing dudes). I'd given up on CEIII ever coming into being, so finding out today that it's finally happening was a very welcome surprise.

Also, the original clone wars cartoon was terrible. From the bits I saw, certain characters were laughably overpowered (I remember one jedi killing an entire army of SBDs at the same time. Alone. I wonder why he never did that in episodes I II or III?). I haven't watched the more recent series, since that time period doesn't really interest me that much (I'm pretty sure I haven't even watched any of the prequel trilogy more than once). I'm more into pre-EpI and post-EPIII (so pretty much anything but the Clone Wars and EpI).


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Old 04-04-2011, 12:06 AM   #47
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I do miss the Grevious from the original CW...

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Old 04-04-2011, 01:09 AM   #48
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Also, the original clone wars cartoon was terrible. From the bits I saw, certain characters were laughably overpowered (I remember one jedi killing an entire army of SBDs at the same time. Alone. I wonder why he never did that in episodes I II or III?). I haven't watched the more recent series, since that time period doesn't really interest me that much (I'm pretty sure I haven't even watched any of the prequel trilogy more than once). I'm more into pre-EpI and post-EPIII (so pretty much anything but the Clone Wars and EpI).
The sheer awesome of the original might have looked cheesy to some but it was definetly better than being forced to hear a battle droid stupid joke every three minutes on the newer series.


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Old 04-04-2011, 03:58 AM   #49
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I do miss the Grevious from the original CW...
Yeah, when we all thought he'd be this badass warrior who crushed Jedi underfoot with no effort whatsoever.

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Old 04-04-2011, 04:30 AM   #50
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Ok, i can give people that, that one Mace Windu episode, crossed the line between "wow he's so cool" and "that's just ridiculous".

About Grievous, i guess it's GL's thing, make his villains look stupid, the whole CIS army is kinda of a joke (the Stormtroopers too if you think about it) and Grievous became a joke too.
If you are serious about your evilness... you have to be a Sith Lord lol
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Old 04-04-2011, 05:18 AM   #51
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Why?
Do you have opinions or do we just have to explain ourselves to you? it seems like we all have the burden of proof, and the Clone wars being Great is accepted wisdom.

Ok, the reason I said that is because, although I read the EU and Love Star wars in general, I would rather have less releases but at a higher quality, when you see 14 year old padawans fighting Count Dooku to a standstill, and Gary Stukiller pulling ships out of the sky, and Luke skywalker fighting 12 true Sith at the same time... It kinda dilutes the Magic that got me in to Star Wars in the first place. Too much of a Good thing and all that.


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Old 04-04-2011, 11:32 AM   #52
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it seems like we all have the burden of proof, and the Clone wars being Great is accepted wisdom.
Interesting. My impression is the opposite, that you have to show that TCW has any value at all.

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Old 04-04-2011, 11:43 AM   #53
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Interesting. My impression is the opposite, that you have to show that TCW has any value at all.
I think neither is the case. It is all a matter of taste. There is no way to quantify that The Clones Wars has value or doesn’t except in the eye of the beholder.

I’ve been critical on TCW in the past, but after actually watching the entire series I have lessen my stance. I still don’t consider it on par with the original trilogy, but I don’t want to strangle George with my bare hand any longer. I’ve really enjoyed watching the episodes with my 9 year old cousin. His excitement and love for Star Wars reminds me of myself back in 1976. Still, I think my cousin has bad Star Wars taste because he likes the prequels and TCW better than the OT.
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Old 04-04-2011, 12:13 PM   #54
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Interesting. My impression is the opposite, that you have to show that TCW has any value at all.
I was referring to Alexrd, not the world in general


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Old 04-04-2011, 01:05 PM   #55
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Do you have opinions or do we just have to explain ourselves to you? it seems like we all have the burden of proof, and the Clone wars being Great is accepted wisdom.
I asked why should we have less releases. How can I have the burden of proof, if you were the one who came up with that statement?

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Ok, the reason I said that is because, although I read the EU and Love Star wars in general, I would rather have less releases but at a higher quality, when you see 14 year old padawans fighting Count Dooku to a standstill, and Gary Stukiller pulling ships out of the sky, and Luke skywalker fighting 12 true Sith at the same time... It kinda dilutes the Magic that got me in to Star Wars in the first place. Too much of a Good thing and all that.
Why not ask for more releases with quality? You seem to suggest those can't be together.

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It happened when we saw an actual war in it,
Same with TCW. And as a bonus, we don't only see the war in the battlefield, but we see the "behind-the scenes" and events during this time of war.

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full scale battles for control of the relevant systems,
Same with TCW. Although not just to control relevant systems.

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we saw Grievous turning the tide of the war,
The Gary Stu Grievous. I remember.

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we saw Anakin getting closer to the Darkside,
How is that better or worse than what TCW shows? TCW shows the hero Anakin was supposed to be when we heard of him in ANH. And without the "emo" part. Besides, it has already shown Anakin using the darkside.

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we saw Anakin being Knighted and his growth,
Erm... If it was shown there, it can't be shown again in TCW.

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we saw how Sidious final stroke played effectively putting everything in place for ROTS.
No, we didn't. That was off-screen. And we see Sidious pulling the strings in TCW.

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Instead of, poor R2 is lost!!! we gotta risk everything to get the little droid back.
Oh, wait a minute. Now you're using ad ridiculum. Great. You prefer to ignore everything else the series has shown, and pick the few episodes that don't meet your standards. And even seeking R2 on that episode had it's purposes. You seem to forget that R2 was full of info about the GAR. It was better to left him to the CIS, wouldn't it?

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Sorry, but the entire thing is cringe worthy, and i saw more than enough to learn that, your sarcasm is unnecessary.
Apparently you saw nothing at all.



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Old 04-04-2011, 01:56 PM   #56
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It painfully obliviously that you sir have never watched Looney Tunes.
You beat me to it, Ever watched the coyote and roadrunner, Couldn't ask for more violence!!



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Old 04-04-2011, 02:09 PM   #57
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Grievous was a Gary Stu? How about Ahsoka????


Yeah you are right, they can't show Anakin knighted again, but the question you asked me was basically "what relevant things the old cartoon showed?" and i made i list of them for your appreciation, and what did you say? No you're wrong. Without any argument at all.

I tell you what, the Clone Wars is all about, CIS got this new, surprise, ultimate weapon that is gonna turn the tide of war, we gotta stop them!!!! But only on the next episode.
Either that or bounty hunter whatishisname is up to something bad that can change the war, but it doesn't really.


How many more episodes do you think i need to watch? lol

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Old 04-04-2011, 03:44 PM   #58
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How many more episodes do you think i need to watch? lol
More than you have "if" you want to give a intelligent synopsis of what The Clone Wars is about. As it is now it is rather apparent that you have not watched many of them.
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Old 04-04-2011, 03:46 PM   #59
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Grievous was a Gary Stu? How about Ahsoka????
I never said otherwise. You are the one with double standards.

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Yeah you are right, they can't show Anakin knighted again, but the question you asked me was basically "what relevant things the old cartoon showed?" and i made i list of them for your appreciation, and what did you say? No you're wrong. Without any argument at all.
What? I told that the same thing happens in the new series, yet you seem to ignore it. And even use fallacies to defend your argument (or lack of).

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I tell you what, the Clone Wars is all about, CIS got this new, surprise, ultimate weapon that is gonna turn the tide of war, we gotta stop them!!!! But only on the next episode.
Either that or bounty hunter whatishisname is up to something bad that can change the war, but it doesn't really.
See? Lack of argumentation and excessive use of ad ridiculum.

There is no point in wasting my time to try to have a discussion with you.

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More than you have "if" you want to give a intelligent synopsis of what The Clone Wars is about.
He couldn't even give an intelligent synopsis of the episodes that he apparently has seen.



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Old 04-04-2011, 04:34 PM   #60
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The inherent problem with The Clone Wars is that the Clone War is a stupid conflict. I'm sorry, we've got Robots fighting Clones? I thought this is supposed to be a -war-, not Deadliest Warrior 31st Century edition. It's a war there's no reason to care about because the only people fighting are built or grown for it, except the Jedi who shouldn't be fighting anyway, because THEY'RE KEEPERS OF THE PEACE, NOT SOLDIERS.

Argh.

Really, why am I supposed to care about a conflict where both sides are morally bankrupt? The CIS is lead by the Sith, who kick puppies, eat them, and then molest the corpse - and that's not even getting into Grievous, and the Republic is growing sentient people for the purpose of dying in battle. Also, there's only 3 million Clones to fight a galactic war against at the very lowest number stated, trillions - some sources state quadrillions or even quintillions.

1 trillion is one million millions. In other words, every clone has at least 333,333 Droids trying to kill him. If we assume one quadrillion, each clone has 333,333,333 droids, if we assume quintillions, 333,333,333,333. Now, let's assume that Lama Su meant a division of 15,000 clones when she said unit. She didn't, but let's assume she did. That brings us up to 18,000,000,000 clones. Sounds more reasonable, right? Wrong. 18,000,000,000 is a staggeringly large number, true. The Old Republic consists of, I believe a thousand worlds? So enjoy having 1800 clones to defend an entire planet. And against even a single trillion, these 18,000,000 clones are still outnumbered 50:1, even with the odds at their most favorable.

And the Republic is supposed to be winning? How does that work?


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Old 04-04-2011, 04:47 PM   #61
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There were approximately 400 billion stars and around half of these had planets that could support life. Ten percent of those planets developed life, while sentient life developed in 1/1,000 of those (about 20 million). The galaxy was populated by approximately 100 quadrillion different life forms... There was 2000 planets/systems signed up to the pre-Rebellion (Delegation of 2000) so I'd say there was a lot less Clones per planet than that hehe


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Old 04-04-2011, 05:19 PM   #62
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It painfully obliviously that you sir have never watched Looney Tunes.
Actually, Looney Tunes was aimed at both children and adults. There is definitely adult humor in those cartoons that was meant to go right over kids' heads.


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Old 04-04-2011, 05:19 PM   #63
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Ah, right, I'd forgotten that there were 20 million worlds that developed sentient life naturally, and 40 billion life-bearing worlds suitable for colonization - so yeah, numbers are jacked. Although 20 million worlds with only 100 quadrillion sentient life forms seems a bit odd - that's only about 5 billion members of each race after 25,000 years of galactic civilization. It seems like it should be an order of magnitude higher.


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Old 04-04-2011, 06:23 PM   #64
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Actually, Looney Tunes was aimed at both children and adults. There is definitely adult humor in those cartoons that was meant to go right over kids' heads.
I agree with that, but Looney Tunes was just as aimed at kids as Star Wars was and included most of Primogen list.

I’m not even sure you can call what is in Star Wars incest. I highly doubt Lucas knew Luke and Leia were twins until 10 mins before they filmed the reveal scene. Also not sure two kisses would constitute incest, but I’ll leave that argument to those more knowledgeable about such matters.

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And the Republic is supposed to be winning? How does that work?
First the clones and jedi are not the only ones fighting. Even in RoTS we saw wookiees fighting the droids.

Plus they are droids, you win by turning off the switch.

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Old 04-04-2011, 06:25 PM   #65
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Wait... where's the 3million number coming from?


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Old 04-04-2011, 06:28 PM   #66
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Wait... where's the 3million number coming from?
It's been mentioned in the Guide to the Grand Army of the Republic. One of the authors of that was Karen Traviss, who admitted that she knows **** all about Star Wars beyond what the licensing people told her, and what she's written herself.

I'm not sure if she's the one who came up with that number, but she did defend it vocally at one point.






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Old 04-04-2011, 07:04 PM   #67
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It's been mentioned in the Guide to the Grand Army of the Republic. One of the authors of that was Karen Traviss, who admitted that she knows **** all about Star Wars beyond what the licensing people told her, and what she's written herself.

I'm not sure if she's the one who came up with that number, but she did defend it vocally at one point.
Wait... so, we're supposed to dislike TCW because Traviss claimed 3 million clones, even though TCW invalidates what Traviss says?


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Old 04-04-2011, 07:20 PM   #68
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Wait... so, we're supposed to dislike TCW because Traviss claimed 3 million clones, even though TCW invalidates what Traviss says?
That is the "Fandalorian" way of thinking. As far as I'm concerned TCW is worthy of existence, if only because it made her run off and cry like a baby.
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Old 04-04-2011, 07:21 PM   #69
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That is the "Fandalorian" way of thinking. As far as I'm concerned TCW is worthy of existence, if only because it made her run off and cry like a baby.
Made her run off and c'ry like a b'aby, s'urely?



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Old 04-04-2011, 07:50 PM   #70
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I'm just trying to understand it. I mean are they seriously arguing that we dislike the Clone Wars series because the 3 million clones is too few. And that the number was made up by a person who dislikes the series because they invalidated her work. So we should dislike it for invalidating something that didn't make numerical sense?


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Old 04-04-2011, 07:53 PM   #71
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That is the "Fandalorian" way of thinking. As far as I'm concerned TCW is worthy of existence, if only because it made her run off and cry like a baby.
What did she call us? She made up some name for those who dislike her work. I can't recall now.



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Old 04-04-2011, 07:58 PM   #72
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What did she call us? She made up some name for those who dislike her work. I can't recall now.
Talifan, a play on Taliban. In that context, at least.

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Old 04-04-2011, 08:13 PM   #73
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Originally Posted by Alkonium View Post
Talifan, a play on Taliban. In that context, at least.
That's it. Well, such thing deserves no respect from me.



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Old 04-04-2011, 08:32 PM   #74
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Originally Posted by Alexrd View Post
I never said otherwise. You are the one with double standards.
I've never agreed that Grievous was a Gary Stu, i was actually surprised by you calling him that, they've made it quite clear that Dooku could have him any time he wanted

Quote:
What? I told that the same thing happens in the new series, yet you seem to ignore it. And even use fallacies to defend your argument (or lack of).
Give me an example instead of telling me "you are wrong" that's all i'm saying...

Quote:
See? Lack of argumentation and excessive use of ad ridiculum.

There is no point in wasting my time to try to have a discussion with you.
Oh apparently i forgot to mention the episodes that the Jedi do random stuff that don't affect anything at all.

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He couldn't even give an intelligent synopsis of the episodes that he apparently has seen.
You very smart man.

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Old 04-04-2011, 08:40 PM   #75
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3 million clones has been the stated number in every work that's actually stated a number. Or should I say, the highest stated number. Even if the Clones actually number the highest reasonable amount - 1 unit equaling a Division of 15,000 and 1.2 million units coming up to 18 billion, it's still a horribly low number of clones for a galactic conflict.

And yeah, Traviss is a hack and a nutcase.


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Old 04-04-2011, 08:53 PM   #76
Alexrd
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Originally Posted by mstr kenobi View Post
I've never agreed that Grievous was a Gary Stu, i was actually surprised by you calling him that, they've made it quite clear that Dooku could have him any time he wanted
Grievous, who could easily take out a bunch of Jedi (including masters of the Council) is not a Gary Stu. But Ahsoka, who hasn't won a single duel, is a Mary Sue. That's double standards.

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Originally Posted by mstr kenobi View Post
Give me an example instead of telling me "you are wrong" that's all i'm saying...
An example of what? War? (Ryloth trilogy, Landing at Point Rain, etc...) Control of relevant systems? (Ambush, Rookies, Holocron Heist, ARC Troopers, Zillo Beast, etc...) Anakin going dark? (Brain Invaders, Mortis, etc...) Admit you're wrong, and next time, learn about the subject before enter on some discussion.

And you have yet to tell me how "Nothing happens in it!!!!", aswell as the rest of your post, since it's clearly not true.

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Originally Posted by mstr kenobi View Post
Oh apparently i forgot to mention the episodes that the Jedi do random stuff that don't affect anything at all.
Like?

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Originally Posted by mstr kenobi View Post
You very smart man.

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Old 04-04-2011, 09:05 PM   #77
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Originally Posted by Darth InSidious View Post
Made her run off and c'ry like a b'aby, s'urely?
Funniest post I've read for a long while.

Also, Talifans originated from Brian Herbert and Kevin J Anderson, when they were defending their continuation of the Dune series. However, Karen Traviss, and anyone else who uses that word seriously, loses brain cells in the process.

edit: The thing that bothers me the most about Traviss is her attitude. I'm actually ok with most of what I've seen in her work, although she does overdo the Mandalorian-worship (as a feared warrior culture, it makes sense that they'd be tough bastards, but she makes even inexperienced ones and ones well past their prime out to be stronger than jedi) and jedi-hate (It's good to have people calling them and the Republic out for hypocrisy, but she seems to write all Jedi as insufferable pricks, with maybe two or three exceptions). I actually like the idea of Star Wars stories with less force-users, and there aren't many.


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Last edited by Liverandbacon; 04-04-2011 at 10:16 PM.
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Old 04-04-2011, 09:07 PM   #78
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Originally Posted by Liverandbacon View Post
Also, Talifans originated from Brian Herbert and Kevin J Anderson, when they were defending their continuation of the Dune series. However, Karen Traviss, and anyone else who uses that word seriously, loses brain cells in the process.
I had never heard the term before, until she used it on that famed debate.



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Old 04-04-2011, 09:40 PM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Primogen View Post
3 million clones has been the stated number in every work that's actually stated a number. Or should I say, the highest stated number. Even if the Clones actually number the highest reasonable amount - 1 unit equaling a Division of 15,000 and 1.2 million units coming up to 18 billion, it's still a horribly low number of clones for a galactic conflict.
Found this article funny.... They do contribute the 3 million to Traviss though. http://scifi.about.com/od/starwarsgl...-Are-There.htm
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Old 04-04-2011, 09:43 PM   #80
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There is NO WAY that the Clone Wars can hurt Star Wars canon more than Jar-Jar hurt it.
Fixed.


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