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Old 07-18-2011, 11:23 PM   #1
Darth Avlectus
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Borders Bookstore says goodbye. :(

Article:
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Border...47798.html?x=0



So they filed for bankruptcy in February and no buyers have taken them up on their offer since. Apparently they have not met the ebook challenge of today aggressively enough and are now paying for it. Sad news.

Friday the mass close-down begins and the liquidation sales shall go on now through September. I know where I'm going soon.

I'm really sorry it's happening to Borders, of all places. It's one of my favorite bookstores (if not the favorite). I am going to miss them dearly. So get the hot deals while you still can.

Thoughts?


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Old 07-18-2011, 11:54 PM   #2
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I liked having them in malls, it gave me a place to entertain myself while my sister and mom spent what seemed like years clothes shopping. But since I only go to malls to do stupid things like pierce my ear or buy random crap, its been a while since I stepped in one. Honestly, the downright amazing service I've gotten from Barnes and Noble with my nook color and every time I go in the store has put them at number one in my book. As soon as my nook started malfunctioning, I took it in and walked out with a brand new one 5 minutes later, with all of my data exchanged onto the new one. This was at the same time that my Asus laptop had been with their RMA department for 2 out of 2.5 months. It was like I had walked into customer support Heaven. Try doing that with a Kindle. Oh wait, you cant, there's no such thing as a real amazon store.



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Old 07-19-2011, 12:47 AM   #3
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Was not expecting to hear that. It's sad to see such a great chain of bookstores shutdown.


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Old 07-19-2011, 01:10 AM   #4
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They're going bankrupt because of eReaders and the like? That's just... depressing.

I know I can't be the only one that likes having a book in my hands. There's a permanence about it. Electronic books just seem so... temporary.

I feel old now, but damnit, I want to read books, not some flimsy little gadget that doesn't have that unique and wonderful smell any true fan of reading has come to know and love just as much as the stories and knowledge written on the pages!


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Old 07-19-2011, 04:23 AM   #5
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If I didn't learn it here first, I would have learned about it later in the evening since Conan O'Brien mentioned it on his show.


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They're going bankrupt because of eReaders and the like? That's just... depressing.
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I feel old now, but damnit, I want to read books, not some flimsy little gadget that doesn't have that unique and wonderful smell any true fan of reading has come to know and love just as much as the stories and knowledge written on the pages!
I agree!


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Old 07-19-2011, 05:03 AM   #6
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I happen to be a fan of tomes that have been painstakingly penned by a calligrapher of as much worth as the author who has composed the work, not these cheap, mass-produced, industral book-in-a-cans. And I prefer it bound in the author's hide.


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Old 07-19-2011, 05:08 AM   #7
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Borders over here closed a few years ago - it really was one of the best book stores, especially for Sci-Fi, Comic Books and History. I didn't realise the US Branch was still going, but it's sad that that's now had to close too.

Damn e-readers!






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Old 07-19-2011, 05:10 AM   #8
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They're going bankrupt because of eReaders and the like? That's just... depressing.
Indeed... here's to hoping the Amazon bookstore doesn't share the same fate

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Old 07-19-2011, 07:09 AM   #9
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Today I weep for book stores everywhere.

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Old 07-19-2011, 07:29 AM   #10
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It's not just e-readers... it's the internet in general. A lot of people these days read more random stuff on the net than they do in all the books they've ever read in their life put together.

Also, I'm contributing to the problem since I got myself a Galaxy Tab 10.1 recently which just escalates my whole non-book media consumption.

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Old 07-19-2011, 12:12 PM   #11
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Wow. This depresses me. I bloody LOVED Borders. It was my single favourite book shop ever. I remember going to Borders on a Midnight opening to pick up Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows. It was GREAT there.


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Old 07-19-2011, 12:14 PM   #12
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I loved going to Borders. I'll admit to reading the occasional e-book, but I don't own a Kindle or anything, and I like the fact I can hold a book in my hands. Sad day....


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Old 07-19-2011, 01:10 PM   #13
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Sadly, I DO own a kindle. They are light, easy to use, they use less paper, obviously, and they are a lot more space efficient.
However, I didn't want what's probably the inevitable : The redundancy of book stores.


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Old 07-19-2011, 01:27 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Lion54 View Post
I know I can't be the only one that likes having a book in my hands. There's a permanence about it. Electronic books just seem so... temporary.

I feel old now, but damnit, I want to read books, not some flimsy little gadget that doesn't have that unique and wonderful smell any true fan of reading has come to know and love just as much as the stories and knowledge written on the pages!
1) with a protective cover (which, frankly, you're an idiot if you don't have one) it feels just like a book.

2) So long as you're not buying a Nook Color, the display looks exactly like a printed page.

I am a voracious reader. I have been for most of my life. I organize a book club for crying out loud. I f***ing love my Nook. It annotates better than a physical book and I can literally carry thousands of titles on a single device.

I moved earlier this year. It just happened to be a couple of months after I purchased my Nook. After my tenth box of books, I decided that not only would I be digitizing my library as quickly as possible, but that I would never buy a physical book again (unless that's my only option).
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Old 07-19-2011, 03:07 PM   #15
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My bro messages me from Japan telling me about this, tells me I should go to the nearest Borders at once and stock up on history books, focusing on the Romans. I tell him to sod off and find a library.


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Old 07-19-2011, 03:51 PM   #16
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I don't know borders but I had a similar thought this morning while driving around to purchase a tv and...an extra bookcase...and seeing the local bookstore closed and empty

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1) with a protective cover (which, frankly, you're an idiot if you don't have one) it feels just like a book.
I just can't get used to ebooks. It is true that a single page looks like a real book but I'm the type of reader who likes to go back and forth when reading a book, comparing passages within a single book or several books and it just doesn't work. Also, for non English speakers, the choice is also limited to best sellers and classics for the most... I also like to pick up a book, sometimes signed by the author, which has been annotated by my great-great-grandfather, grand-father and father (they were the bookish type) and see how they were thinking. Just thinking about the voyage some of these books went through is worth a book in some cases. I like to annotate the books I read as well and e-stuff just doesn't cut it as I would like.

The only advantage I find to ebooks is that it takes little space in my suitcase when I travel (I remember buying lots of Spanish and German books when traveling to Spain and Austria as a student and then filling my hand luggage with the newly purchased books in order to avoid paying excess weight...gosh these airport corridors seemed interminable! ).

And from an aesthetic point of view (feel free to say it's girlish) , I like bookcases filled with nicely covered books in my reading room
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Old 07-19-2011, 04:11 PM   #17
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It is true that a single page looks like a real book but I'm the type of reader who likes to go back and forth when reading a book, comparing passages within a single book or several books and it just doesn't work.
I do too and I've not had a problem. The 2nd edition Nook even allows you to view highlighted/annotated passages from one screen *shrugs*

Comparing notes from several books at once would be a challenge though.

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I also like to pick up a book which has been annotated by my great-great-grandfather, grand-father and father (they were the bookish type) and see how they were thinking . I like to annotate the books I read as well and e-stuff just doesn't cut it.
I find annotating ebooks to be significantly easier than with dead-tree books. *shrugs again*

Obviously, there's a chance that ebooks in the future won't be in the same format and my kids won't be able to read my notes. But then again, I suppose they won't be able to listen to my cassettes or watch any of my VHS movies either

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The only advantage I find to ebooks is that it takes little space in my suitcase.
Let's talk again if/when you ever move.

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And from an aesthetic point of view (feel free to say it's girlish) , I like bookcases filled with nicely covered books in my reading room
*shrugs a third time* And from book-nerd point of view, I like being able to pull up (almost) any title in my library at a moments notice anywhere I go
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Old 07-19-2011, 04:33 PM   #18
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I do too and I've not had a problem. The 2nd edition Nook even allows you to view highlighted/annotated passages from one screen *shrugs*
You should see my annotated books...you just can't do that with a e-book ( plain text is too restrictive).

Anyway, the page view vs comparisons not made from the same source is what lacks the most to ebooks. I also don't like the regular short comparisons: sometimes more context is needed and I like to be able to go back and forth some pages...it's just not as practical and easy on an ebook.


Quote:
Obviously, there's a chance that ebooks in the future won't be in the same format and my kids won't be able to read my notes. But then again, I suppose they won't be able to listen to my cassettes or watch any of my VHS movies either
Contrary to the cassettes and VHS (which you can't edit easily anyway) paper books don't require any specific type of technology in order to be able to read them. I have to admit that some (but not all) of the books I was referring to are historical and referring to the same persons who have annotated them.

Quote:
Let's talk again if/when you ever move.
You do not want to know how many times I moved, even across continents (at least 20 times over 30 something years)...last time was a year ago. Btw books aren't a real problem when you move: sure, it's somewhat heavy but also very easy to fit in a box...and no one steals them! One plastic bad at the bottom ad one plastic bag at the top...then you just take the books in the same order you put them in the boxes and fit then in the book cases...no need to pack each book individually contrary to most of the stuff in a house.

Quote:
*shrugs a third time* And from book-nerd point of view, I like being able to pull up (almost) any title in my library at a moments notice anywhere I go
I agree on this one. I keep a digital copy of what I might need at any time but it doesn't replaces the other version. In fact, for books that I'll read only once by curiosity, I don't care much. To me (it all comes down to personal preference) both formats are complementary in that regard. I really like the digital copy search function and couldn't live without it for some books (but definitely not for novels)...if only it could be combined to a "per topic" search function.
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Old 07-19-2011, 08:18 PM   #19
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I have to say, I'm not much of a fan of being forced into a codified style of annotation, delineated for me by a programmer. Even simple annotations (arrows, for example) become difficult on my Kindle:



And I can't even imagine being able to keep track of this number of electronic notes, which are difficult enough to follow in physical form:



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Old 07-19-2011, 09:33 PM   #20
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Contrary to the cassettes and VHS (which you can't edit easily anyway) paper books don't require any specific type of technology in order to be able to read them.
To me, this is probably their biggest advantage. All that's required is sufficient light.

I don't think that ebooks will ever replace real books entirely.


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Old 07-19-2011, 10:09 PM   #21
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Wow. Didn't think this topic would get as much attention as it has. Still, I do not want this to become a Kavar's topic.

I liked the "at home" atmosphere of Borders (and local bookstores). Some will say that this may have eventually contributed to its downfall, though. It seemed like a way to get people to stumble-upon and compulsively buy books. Still, I can see how this might have undermined them because it allows people to come in and perhaps read entire books without actually buying them.

I am not a fan of eBooks and eReaders personally. I don't own one either.

"How can you say that if you never tried it?"

Ah but I *did* try it. Sampler at an electronics store. Didn't like it. Your opinion ignored, argument over.

Besides, small nano-electronic items have a propensity for being damaged or destroyed around me, and I'm not about to get roped in on warranty BS either. Clark Howard would agree with me on consumer product warranty being scams. Just ask him.

Have not gotten into Amazon. Maybe I'm taking it personal, but when a friend who made tremendous sacrifices, owned a small local bookstore that got shut down for the very same sort of reasons, it tends to make one wary.

In any case, the question hangs now: Barnes and Noble will be tested in the coming times. Are they next on the chopping block?

In the unlikely case one of their execs are actually reading this, I as a prospective customer have these 3 suggestions for Barnes and Noble:
1) offer something unique for your shortcomings vs others and whatever cutbacks you'll need to make

2) compete with amazon and perhaps other stores like Best Buy, in as many ways as possible

3) keep in mind about monopolies and laws against it--LAWYER UP! This is in case Amazon ever tries to run you out of business.
No D333, this isn't free advertising for you. I'd charge you for it.

Barnes and Noble, don't let me down.

@Bob Lion54: Hey, I couldn't agree more, good man. Look at it this way:

1) Physical books will survive an EMP, should the nukes ever fall, how ever remote a possibility that might be--as Q said above, eBooks will never entirely replace the hard copy, eProponents say whatever you want
2) Physical books have better alternative uses iff worse comes to worst: fire starting, bludgeoning weapon, doorstop, paperweight, etc.
3) A computer virus can't really affect paper


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Old 07-20-2011, 12:01 AM   #22
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2) Physical books have better alternative uses iff worse comes to worst: fire starting, bludgeoning weapon, doorstop, paperweight, etc.

The words in red are especially true if you were a Sumerian and you read your literature on clay tablets.

They also made pretty good weights in weight lifting for building muscle. Yes sir! One could gain knowledge and get physical exercise at the same time.


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Old 07-20-2011, 07:25 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by GTA:SWcity View Post
1) Physical books will survive an EMP, should the nukes ever fall, how ever remote a possibility that might be--as Q said above, eBooks will never entirely replace the hard copy, eProponents say whatever you want
2) Physical books have better alternative uses iff worse comes to worst: fire starting, bludgeoning weapon, doorstop, paperweight, etc.
3) A computer virus can't really affect paper
A thought is with me sometimes, and I say,
'Should earth by inward throes be wrenched throughout,
Or fire be sent from far to wither all
Her pleasant habitations, and dry up
Old Ocean in his bed left singed and bare,
Yet would the living Presence still subsist
Victorious; and composure would ensue,
And kindlings like the morning; presage sure,
Though slow, perhaps, of a returning day.'
But all the meditations of mankind,
Yea, all the adamantine holds of truth,
By reason built, or passion, which itself
Is highest reason in a soul sublime;
The consecrated works of Bard and Sage,
Sensuous or intellectual, wrought by men,
Twin labourers and heirs of the same hopes,
Where would they be? Oh! why hath not the mind
Some element to stamp her image on
In nature somewhat nearer to her own?
Why, gifted with such powers to send abroad
Her spirit, must it lodge in shrines so frail? - Wordsworth, The Prelude V: 'Books'

I don't know if the physical book -- certainly not the modern mass-produced paperback, which falls apart of its own accord after a few decades -- stands very much more chance of surviving disaster or the ravages of time than an ebook.


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Old 07-20-2011, 10:12 AM   #24
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^perhaps, but a book is a lot less likely to get boosted than an ebook (or other e-devices, even by the "cops"*)....unless the thief knows the actual value of the tome in question to be worth more than its modern equivalent. Still, everything is pretty much ephemeral in the end, even if only relatively so.

*http://www.khou.com/home/TSA-arreste...125256174.html


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Old 07-20-2011, 11:49 AM   #25
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Quote:
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I don't think that ebooks will ever replace real books entirely.
wasnt that said about videos to dvds?


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Old 07-20-2011, 12:37 PM   #26
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wasnt that said about videos to dvds?
Nope, I said thank god we got rid of that awful tape.

Iím older than most here. It took me awhile to come to grips with downloading music without the CD or downloading games without the disc. Still haven't wrapped my mind around books without the book, but I bought a Kindle recently for my mother. She loves books, but you canít change the font size on a book. Guess I'll start getting use to it.
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Old 07-20-2011, 01:27 PM   #27
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She loves books, but you canít change the font size on a book.
Use magnifying glasses like a pro!


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Old 07-20-2011, 03:04 PM   #28
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I don't think that ebooks will ever replace real books entirely.
It'll happen man

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Old 07-20-2011, 03:33 PM   #29
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Paperless worldwide compilation of all history and knowledge completely stored on system, system crash irrecoverably in 3, 2, 1...



No adjustable text font? No problem. Now maybe the electricity might fail but you still have the mechanical arm and the lens, so 2 out of 3 isn't bad.

While I don't know if books would survive so very much longer than an eReader, the low tech approach more often than not seems to cone through when modern amenities fail.

I forgot to mention a fourth, very remote possibility:
A super bacteria is created out of man's arrogance that happens to consume petrol based products.

*prepares for the eReader crowd to start throwing shoes*


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Old 07-20-2011, 03:41 PM   #30
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Used up two Borders gift cards I had lying around today. Still can't believe it's closing...


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Old 07-20-2011, 05:04 PM   #31
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I'm going to be honest, people who bitch about e-readers are annoying and panicking for no reason what so ever. I have an e-reader. I love it, its so convenient, sometimes. When I travel, it takes up the space of half a book and holds 500. But guess what, I can't read it at pools or beaches, I never let it leave my sight, frankly, its a pain in the ass to take a lot of places. Not only that, but for things like textbooks or books I read for classes, its so much easier to have a real book. You can highlight in nooks, but its a pain. And that's why I still buy books too.
People act like paper books are going to disappear. Guess what, they aren't. Unless someone invents a device that is water proof, can never be stolen, never dies, can be marked up with little effort and time and feels like a book, books are not going to die. Like other people have pointed out, a computer error would wipe out an ebooks memory. Good thing BOOKS ARE NOT GOING TO DIE.
Seriously, people who complain about e-readers need to realize that A. there's a lot of others like them, who publishers are not going to just screw over, B. We aren't about to burn books because they don't have E in front of them and C. No one is forcing anyone to buy an ereader or read e-books. I have never seen a book worth reading only as a e-book. I have seen books as only paper books.
Also, the anti-e-book crowd needs to stop acting like they're old men complaining about how easy kids have it now a days. It makes as much sense as acting like that because you saw someone reading news online instead of from a magazine. Both are completely viable choices.



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Old 07-20-2011, 05:26 PM   #32
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Use magnifying glasses like a pro!
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Originally Posted by GTA:SWcity View Post
No adjustable text font? No problem. Now maybe the electricity might fail but you still have the mechanical arm and the lens, so 2 out of 3 isn't bad.
You know how hard it is for a 76 year old woman to carry around a magnifying glass with the magnifying power of the Hubble Telescope? Trust me I bought her a top of the line magnifying glass with the arm and the ability to magnify an entire page at once, but that just isn't practical for her to carry to church.
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Old 07-20-2011, 05:55 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by jawathehutt View Post
You can highlight in nooks, but its a pain.
If you haven't already, check out the 2nd gen. Touchscreen annotation ftw
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Old 07-20-2011, 11:13 PM   #34
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If you haven't already, check out the 2nd gen. Touchscreen annotation ftw
Thats what I have, a nook color. Compared to highlighting real books, its still a pain. The one advantage is being able to skip from one highlighted section to another with a finger tap. They need to make that feature in real books. Like an e-book in a book. They could call it an e-bobookok.



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Old 07-21-2011, 03:01 AM   #35
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@mim: Ok, I guess I walked into that one. Good point.

By the way, where in God's name did you find a magnifier THAT powerful?
I hope you didn't kill anyone I know for it.

*Looks around, does not see Kavar's but sees someone trying to make it Kavar's*
Quote:
Originally Posted by jawathehutt
I'm going to be honest, people who bitch about e-readers are annoying and panicking for no reason what so ever.
I see no posts here which necessarily indicate any panicked mindset. Maybe a few critics.

Now it could just be me, but it seems more like you're hyperbolizing some of my points and attacking your distorted version of what I'm saying.

Besides, were I stone dead serious:
1) I'd have posted this in Kavar's
2) I would not have posted "alternative uses" so nonchalantly (like burning books)
3) Pavlos would not have interjected such an awesome piece (Thanks Pavy!). I persoanlly took it as a sign to poke fun. I'm sorry if you took issue with this.

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People act like paper books are going to disappear.
Who is acting that way? Are you generalizing about a type of person, or are you addressing certain people here?

Sure, I've pointed out advantages and disadvantages between eBooks and paper books. Allow me to clarify something: paper books aren't going anywhere fast despite eReader popularity. Attacking printing presses are pointless gestures at best which I'd think is fairly obvious. Maybe I wasn't clear about that--so what? Don't accuse me of something I never said, nor implied.

Quote:
Guess what, they aren't. Unless someone invents a device that is water proof, can never be stolen, never dies, can be marked up with little effort and time and feels like a book, books are not going to die.
I'm pretty sure our friends D3 and Q covered this, yes.

Quote:
Like other people have pointed out, a computer error would wipe out an ebooks memory. Good thing BOOKS ARE NOT GOING TO DIE.
Indirectly barbing someone by paraphrasing them but pretend to be criticizing a group of people. Beligerence noted.

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Seriously, people who complain about e-readers need to realize I have never seen a book worth reading only as a e-book. I have seen books as only paper books.
Now I remember saying I didn't like eReaders, and I meant it as a matter of personal taste, not quite as a complaint--I'd need to have owned one and used it for an appreciable period of time for that to be legitimate. Again, you seem to be attacking something I never said.

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Also, the anti-e-book crowd
*Looks up and down thread, sees only fans and critics of eBooks and not some anti eBook "crowd" stalin-mario brothers seems to be talking about*
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needs to stop acting like they're old men complaining about how easy kids have it now a days.
I don't see anyone here acting like they're old men talking about the good old days. That certainly wasn't how I meant to come across. So...
Quote:
It makes as much sense as acting like that because you saw someone reading news online instead of from a magazine.
Or about as much sense as a rant of passive-aggessive barbs indirectly at one person but claiming it's a group. In this case (to the best I can tell) of anti-eReader-real-book-death conspiracy theorists.

When someone indirectly attacks another in such a manner, it indicates a certain hostility. Is this the case? Because if you have some kind of personal problem with me, I want to hear it right now. What's the issue?

If that's not correct, then may we know why such a ...general group with a specific set of opinions irritates you so much besides what you already pointed out?

Quote:
Both are completely viable choices.
I agree actually. In fact I get my news from Yahoo among other sources as you can see in my OP.

Frankly I had meant for this to be a more sociable thread as opposed to a contentious one. Sorry if something about it is irritating you.
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Old 07-21-2011, 03:39 AM   #36
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Bah, I enjoyed Borders. Not only for the books, but they usually had a good selection of cult/british/sci fi DVDs to buy. Also, one of the few stores around me to actually carry european metal bands on CD. So long and thanks for all the fish.

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Old 07-21-2011, 01:47 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by me
If you haven't already, check out the 2nd gen
Quote:
Originally Posted by jawathehutt
Thats what I have, a nook color. Compared to highlighting real books, its still a pain.
I was referring to this. I find that tapping and dragging with my finger is more convenient and precise than with a highlighter, but obviously preferences vary.
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Old 07-21-2011, 02:44 PM   #38
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My Kindle 3 (The new one) is a great eReader and quite a cheap one too at £111 for the Wi-Fi model, (£159 for the 3G model, but 3G annoys me. Bad gimmick)


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Old 07-22-2011, 12:04 AM   #39
jawathehutt
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What you said
It wasn't meant to be an attack against you, more of just a very vocal group of people I'm friends with on facebook feel the need to complain nonstop every time they see someone with an e-reader. Seeing complaining about ebooks sent me over the edge. I apologize if you thought I was directing this at you. I"m going to be honest, I didn't even read you're first response until now, my post was more of just a rant against people who treat books like they're the next dodo.
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Originally Posted by Achilles View Post
I was referring to this. I find that tapping and dragging with my finger is more convenient and precise than with a highlighter, but obviously preferences vary.
I tried that one, seemed about the same as the color except with a lower price tag, longer battery life and fewer advanced features. My color has a touch screen as well, it may be that my fingers are too big and clumsy for precise touch screen usage that gives me the bias towards real highlighters.



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Old 07-22-2011, 12:39 AM   #40
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I don't like e-readers only because I don't see the point of a device that can only really do one thing. If people are going to invest in something like that you may as well get a tablet so you can do other things too.

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