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Old 08-24-2011, 07:54 AM   #1
knight3000
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Ebon Hawk size for thought

For those like me who think the the ebon hawk looks mighty smaller than it should ingame i decided to try and find its correct specs.

the official star wars pages state that is 26 metres long and about 22.5 metres wide, if the entire crew were made up of the smurfs then id say would be right.

to start off i need a size reference. i figured i'd use zalbaar but stats on his height are too varied so i chose hk-47. hk is said to be 1.8 m pretty much everywhere so seemed to be a good choice.

first things 1st i took a ref picture of hk near part of the ship



next i used kotortool to extract hk-47 and used 3d max to scale him to the correct 1.8m. that was the easy part.

next i needed to extract every part of the ebon hawk. each room and corridor had its own model. then the task of putting them all together.



Then mounting it with the hull. the internal area does not match the exterior very well. all the sections were squared off before joining. the 3 areas i tried to match to were the bridge, the exit ramp and the turret access tube. bioware had lots of room to spare it seems



now that i had everything i needed i placed my 1.8m into my max scene and scale the ship until i got a match on my hk test shot. i took an image from the inside to match my reference and an out side shot.





after this test i discovered that the real size of the ebon hawk appears to be 86.4m in long and 83.6m wide. a big step up from 26m long. which would also put in question the real size specs of the millenium falcon are far greater than 27m in length, but some1 else is looking into that so my work is done.

not sure if any1 cares about this info but there you go
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Old 08-24-2011, 08:09 AM   #2
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Wow, thats really a big difference to what you see ingame :O


Now I wish someone would make a realistic scaling mod for the KotOR Games :S
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Old 08-24-2011, 09:27 AM   #3
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Crap. Now this is going to bug me.




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Old 08-24-2011, 09:52 AM   #4
DarthParametric
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80+m seems a tad excessive. That's more that 3/4 the size of a football field (just under for an NFL field). That last picture makes it look like HK could stand on the cockpit's window sill and not hit his head - that can't be right.
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Old 08-24-2011, 10:13 AM   #5
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Old 08-24-2011, 11:34 AM   #6
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Nice work Knight3000. The interior of the Ebon Hawk never did seem to be correct in relation to the exterior of the ship to me. Anyone else notice that there seems to be a shift in scale between KotOR and KotOR2?

What bothered me more was the exceedingly poor layout of the various parts of the ship. I'm sure that a lot of the areas were more concerned with getting all the various characters into a specific area as dictated by the script, then they were with the actual function of the area. That and the fact that you need a lot of space to swing a lightsabre without poking it through a wall.

joe

Last edited by joededman; 08-24-2011 at 11:36 AM. Reason: fix spelling .. some
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Old 08-24-2011, 12:17 PM   #7
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That outside shot seems way bigger than it should be.... where did you extract the Ebon Hawk model from? What module?

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Old 08-24-2011, 02:29 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VarsityPuppet View Post
That outside shot seems way bigger than it should be.... where did you extract the Ebon Hawk model from? What module?
I think that he scaled it up to try and fit the interior, or at least that is my understanding.



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Old 08-24-2011, 06:17 PM   #9
knight3000
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Originally Posted by Sithspecter View Post
I think that he scaled it up to try and fit the interior, or at least that is my understanding.
That's what i did. the only reference from the interior model that i could match to the exterior was the bridge windows. once those lined up to the correct size i then moved the internal model so it was as close to centred.

Which is why in the top view you can see the bridge further back then it should. if i brought the bridge all the way forward then the left part of the centre room would extrude thru the ship. the ebon hawk is way outa wack! with what was there this is what i came up with.

If anyone can do better, i welcome it. 86m does seem big for me too but thats what i got.

the external model i used was: v_ehawk.mdl

the internal models that i stiched together: these are from kotor1
m12aa_01b.mdl - security room
m12aa_01c.mdl - storage room
m12aa_01d.mdl - exit ramp
m12aa_01e.mdl - garage
m12aa_01f.mdl - centre/comm room
m12aa_01g.mdl - medbay
m12aa_01h.mdl - corridor to medbay/engine room
m12aa_01i.mdl - starboard dormatory
m12aa_01j.mdl - port dormatory
m12aa_01k.mdl - cargo hold
m12aa_01l.mdl - engine room
m12aa_01m.mdl - corridor to cargo hold
m12aa_01n.mdl - corridor to port dormatory
m12aa_01o.mdl - corridor to security/bridge
m12aa_01p.mdl - bridge

as when u are on the bridge in game and look out the windows u can see part of the ebon hawks hull. those parts are part of the bridge model which i also used to match up with the exterior, but that was also slightly outa wack.

1 other thing ill also add for a real world look at it u need to remember everthing else that would need to go into a ship like this that you dont see. i also forgot to mention that for those who have played the prologue of kotor2 and remember it, the ebon hawk has airlock doors throughout the ship which from the model are the radius of the corridors that split in half and open up and down. room for those inside the hull is also required.

Last edited by knight3000; 08-24-2011 at 06:29 PM.
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Old 08-24-2011, 09:42 PM   #10
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Most interesting post I have read here in a long time....

Somehow I think you have made an error though. Judging by the given 1.8m height of HK-47 and his relative height from the initial reference pic to the visible floor and ceiling of the main cabin, the central disc of the Hawk should only be about 3x HK's height. In the last picture, it would appear that it is nearly 6 times as tall as HK, not including the orange vertical center-bar dingus. That to me is the the obvious example of the error - just not sure how you got your math worked out to say where in your computations you erred.

Either way, I think it is a brilliant post - and I agree with you knight3000 that the scale is wrong for certain, just perhaps not to the degree of your claim.

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Old 08-25-2011, 02:47 PM   #11
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very interesting. I'd suggest that for an interior pic, instead of the round corridors, you could use the cockpit (and it's squared off windows). Then, you could also take an in-game engine pic of HK standing outside the Ebon Hawk, in front of the cockpit. Those pics might shed a little light on the relative sizes of the EH models in-game.

Another thing to consider, is getting scale reference of T3 standing on the hull exterior, just like in the prologue.

And another is to look at the size of the loading ramp, both from the inside and on the ground.



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Old 08-25-2011, 07:15 PM   #12
knight3000
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Ok. 1st things 1st.

the models i listed were from kotor1. i later realised that the models in the images are from kotor2. they are practically the same apart from the garage not having the speeder bike and the bridge model from kotor 1 have more of the exterior of the ship attached.


so i decided to do a little redo. NO RESIZING this time only showing the scale that bio put there.

this time i only imported the kotor bridge model, which has the front of the ship attached as you see the ship out the windows. i have resized nothing. as you can see where the bridge is placed.



next i imported hk-47 straight from the games files. once again i changed nothing and placed him in the bridge.



Then moved him to the roof and compared it to my resized version. original models on the left, resize on the right.



i'd say i was pretty close

Last edited by knight3000; 08-25-2011 at 07:27 PM.
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Old 08-25-2011, 10:11 PM   #13
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First of all, I'd like to point out that both models were created with entirely different purposes. The interior of the Ebon Hawk has to be detailed, and large enough to house all 10 crew members in. It also can't feel cramped for the player. The walls can't be too constricted, and the ceiling has to be high enough to make it interesting, especially for Big Z. However, the exterior model had to be made to a believable scale, but not so large that it overshadows everything else. Also, it is extremely difficult to create the inside and outside to work all together, and perfectly match up.

Therefore, I conclude that this wasn't really an accident or an oversight, but that it is necessary for the overall look of things. I'm sure that the developers knew that they didn't match up, and it's something that I myself have realized before.



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Old 08-25-2011, 11:05 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sithspecter View Post
First of all, I'd like to point out that both models were created with entirely different purposes. The interior of the Ebon Hawk has to be detailed, and large enough to house all 10 crew members in. It also can't feel cramped for the player. The walls can't be too constricted, and the ceiling has to be high enough to make it interesting, especially for Big Z. However, the exterior model had to be made to a believable scale, but not so large that it overshadows everything else. Also, it is extremely difficult to create the inside and outside to work all together, and perfectly match up.

Therefore, I conclude that this wasn't really an accident or an oversight, but that it is necessary for the overall look of things. I'm sure that the developers knew that they didn't match up, and it's something that I myself have realized before.
Yup, that's also what I've been thinking from the beginning...
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