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Old 02-12-2012, 12:21 PM   #1
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Prequels > Orginals

......according to a Yahoo! columnist.

I'm not sure if this guy knows what he's talking about. This comment on the article pretty much sums up why I think that:

Quote:
"There is absolutely no element or character in the original trilogy that isn't delineated in stark black and white terms"

Interesting. Han Solo is a smuggling criminal whom acts as a gun for hire. Lando is a degenerate gambler responsible for our hero's capture. Darth frickin Vader- the supposed epitome of evil in the first two films- KILLS the emporer- the real epitome of evil- in the third. Perhaps I am obtuse, but I do not find those terms to be starkly delineated in black and white.
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Old 02-12-2012, 01:43 PM   #2
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There's nothing to think about. The writer of that column is either a troll trying to piss off Star Wars purists, a little kid who thinks fancy special effects are what make great movies, or a cockamamie moron.
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Old 02-12-2012, 02:40 PM   #3
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I've never really had any interest in breaking down Star wars in to Freudian theory, Esotericism vs Exotericism, motifs, relating it to the Hero's Journey, or its relation to the American dream... yea kool thats you is intelgunt. I enjoy all six films for various reasons, none of which can be argued away by someone else, and none of which have anything to do with the real world.


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Old 02-12-2012, 04:07 PM   #4
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Ya'll posting in a troll thread *points*

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Old 02-12-2012, 04:20 PM   #5
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To be honest, I don't like any of the movies, special effects or whatnot.



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Old 02-12-2012, 05:47 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beanlord56 View Post
There's nothing to think about. The writer of that column is either a troll trying to piss off Star Wars purists, a little kid who thinks fancy special effects are what make great movies, or a cockamamie moron.
Right, because someone who doesn't share the opinion (not fact) that the originals are better than the prequels is either a troll or a little kid. Great argumentation...

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I enjoy all six films for various reasons, none of which can be argued away by someone else,
Same here.



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Old 02-12-2012, 05:59 PM   #7
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Meh.....started reading it, but his preference for moral relativism and his politics permeated the commentary enough to make me lose intertest.


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Old 02-13-2012, 12:32 AM   #8
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Old 02-13-2012, 01:02 AM   #9
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"They should rename the team to the Washington Government Sucks. Put Obama on the helmet. Line the entire walls of the stadium with the actual text of the ACA.
Fix their home team score on the board to the debt clock, they can win every game 17,000,000,000,000 to 24. Losing team gets taxed by the IRS 100%, then droned."
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Old 02-13-2012, 09:10 AM   #10
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Wonder how much LucasFilm's marketing department paid him...


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Old 02-14-2012, 04:15 AM   #11
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Troll... has a word lost all meaning more than the word troll? Its been so watered down and overused that it hardly has meaning anymore.

You upset? You been trolled, you happy? You been trolled, Lucasforums has recent posts? You been trolled, Birthday thread? Trolled.

"Troll, troll, everywhere Troll, hiding in an alleyway, smokin on a bowl, you read this, you read that, can't you see you been Trolled??"



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Old 02-14-2012, 04:20 AM   #12
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XD @ adamqd

I don't quite understand what the big deal is... Yahoo! Columnist draws up an article they probably don't even believe in themselves but knows it will get traffic and lots of publicity. Hell, even I do it sometimes with my little site that matters to no one... if you make it just right then the traffic comes flooding in from everywhere.

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Old 02-14-2012, 10:39 AM   #13
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Isn't this basically the whole "comparing eras" argument all over again? We did it with Star Trek a few months ago, as I recall. You simply can't compare two pieces of media created twenty years apart from each other using the same standards. Even if they're from the same franchise. The two trilogies were created for completely different audiences, so trying to label one of them as "better" than the other is just a waste of time.
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Old 02-14-2012, 12:01 PM   #14
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I like all six movies. Personally I like the original trilogy slightly better because they are nostalgic to me. However, I can see the same lame dialogue in them as the prequels. The only difference is Harrison Ford and Alec Guinness could pull off the lame dialogue better than any of the prequel actors.
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Old 02-14-2012, 12:48 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mimartin View Post
The only difference is Harrison Ford and Alec Guinness could pull off the lame dialogue better than any of the prequel actors.
Liam Neeson and Ian McDiarmid were as good.



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Old 02-14-2012, 01:56 PM   #16
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Quote:
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Liam Neeson and Ian McDiarmid were as good.
Agreed.

And no one, ever, was as bad as Hayden Christensen, in his delivery of said cheese. He actually seemed to be a cheese magnifier/multiplier.


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Old 02-14-2012, 02:19 PM   #17
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Quote:
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Agreed.
And Christopher Lee, of course. Somehow I forgot.



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Old 02-14-2012, 03:16 PM   #18
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Quote:
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Liam Neeson and Ian McDiarmid were as good.
Yes they were, but IMO not as great as Ford and Guinness at pulling off lame lines. Shouldn't really say that, because I felt McDiarmid's lines were better written than almost all the roles in the entire saga.
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Old 02-14-2012, 10:10 PM   #19
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Hell, even I do it sometimes with my little site that matters to no one... if you make it just right then the traffic comes flooding in from everywhere.
That makes you some sort of hit count whore maybe, but I dunno about troll. I'm pretty sure when some idiot writes a sensationalist newspaper or magazine article, people aren't running around screaming "troll, troll!". That's just part and parcel of the media. I have to agree with adamqd. Troll is just meaningless now by its overuse. Everyone on the internet is a troll basically.

And seeing as that presumably includes me as well -

Just go and watch the Mr Plinkett reviews. He covers all the flaws in the prequels and points out how and why they lack in comparison to the OT.
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Old 02-15-2012, 01:18 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Qui-Gon Glenn View Post
And no one, ever, was as bad as Hayden Christensen, in his delivery of said cheese. He actually seemed to be a cheese magnifier/multiplier.
Honestly, I thought he did a great job in Ep. 3. Is it just me?


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I don't want to get my hopes up, but it's like the planets are aligning or something.
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Old 02-15-2012, 01:20 AM   #21
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I think he did a fairly decent job within the confines of the director and script he had, for someone not as experienced as Liam Neeson or Ewan McGregor.


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Old 02-15-2012, 01:35 AM   #22
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@ DP: Probably should've added a few spaces between what I said to adamqd and what I said afterward.


No, when I said "troll thread" in my first post, I was predicting what threads like this degenerated to in the past, however since LF doesn't seem to have the people it used to running around here, it's not happening.

That said, there were people around here who would come on and agree with the writer and then there'd be a huge debate happening when finally the person or people starting it all would admit that they just did it for the lulz and didn't really agree with the article... and I'm just realising that I did that once or twice when I was still a member XD

Doesn't mean I'm overusing "troll"... after all, if I actually thought that then as an admin I'd be banning a lot more of you... it just makes me... old and remembering a past long forgotten

Also, I don't know anyone who hasn't seen the Mr Plinkett reviews and if they say they haven't.............. then they're just trolling *laughs hysterically as he runs away, gets on a hot air balloon and flies into the distance*

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Old 02-15-2012, 11:20 AM   #23
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Quote:
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Honestly, I thought he did a great job in Ep. 3. Is it just me?
agreed


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Old 02-15-2012, 11:24 AM   #24
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Quote:
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Just go and watch the Mr Plinkett reviews. He covers all the flaws in the prequels and points out how and why they lack in comparison to the OT.
Sure he does...



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Old 02-15-2012, 11:29 AM   #25
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Did you guys know Richard Hammond was the guy in the suit posing as Darth Vader in both trilogies?


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Old 02-15-2012, 01:05 PM   #26
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Quote:
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Sure he does...
I'm not exactly sure what it is you mean by that. Sure, the reviews are delivered in a light hearted serial killer manner, but that's merely a traffic generating gimmick much as Lynk might use - it doesn't diminish the validity of the actual underlying analytical commentary. I don't agree with him on all points. I personally think that Ep1 is worse than Ep2 for instance, despite the latter's god-awful romance sub-plot and other issues. But generally speaking, I pretty much concur with all the major flaws from a filmmaking perspective that he highlights in all 3 films. That's not to say the OT is without problems of its own, but when held up side-by-side these pale in comparison to the issues with the prequels.
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Old 02-15-2012, 03:43 PM   #27
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I pretty much concur with all the major flaws from a filmmaking perspective that he highlights in all 3 films.
Not factual flaws. They are flaws in his opinion (which he passes out as a fact).



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Old 02-15-2012, 05:15 PM   #28
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Like?

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Old 02-15-2012, 06:06 PM   #29
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Oh...it's *this* article.

While GL is himself looking troll-ish at this point [Han shot first, iDon'tGiveA$***!], IIRC he said something to the like that he had never intended Anakin/Vader character to be the ultimate evil, rather the 6 films are about the character in the overall. Rise to prominence, fall to the dark side, redemption. The evil just got played up (which he milked for all its worth I might add). Then again, he said in a rolling stone interview in 2005, concerning the "cult obsession" of Darth Vader, "He's not satan, he just goes to the corner and gets some cigarettes for Satan."

GL wanted an actor who had a sort of inner darkness IRL in order to give a better portrayal of the character, Anakin, the way he envisioned the character.


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Old 02-15-2012, 08:58 PM   #30
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Not factual flaws. They are flaws in his opinion (which he passes out as a fact).
LOL, wow.


"They should rename the team to the Washington Government Sucks. Put Obama on the helmet. Line the entire walls of the stadium with the actual text of the ACA.
Fix their home team score on the board to the debt clock, they can win every game 17,000,000,000,000 to 24. Losing team gets taxed by the IRS 100%, then droned."
-Toker

Last edited by Q; 02-15-2012 at 09:05 PM.
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Old 02-15-2012, 10:46 PM   #31
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LOL I love being able to read people's edits

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Old 02-15-2012, 11:18 PM   #32
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Quote:
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Not factual flaws. They are flaws in his opinion (which he passes out as a fact).
No, I think you'll find there is a fairly wide consensus on the validity of his major claims. You obviously like the prequels and choose to disagree, but just because you don't see the flaws (or choose to ignore them) doesn't mean they aren't there.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and take a stab that you like Qui-Gon? Perhaps his role in the prequels would thus be a suitable topic for a mini-debate as a small slice of the larger argument?
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Old 02-15-2012, 11:21 PM   #33
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The only awesome thing about Qui-Gon is that it's Liam Neeson.

His character was meant to mirror Alec Guinness' Obi-Wan in the OT but failed miserably.

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Old 02-16-2012, 01:59 AM   #34
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I know to the younger generation of SW fans who grew up seeing Episodes I - III first are probably going to hold the prequels in a dearer light than the older generation. However, imho the prequel trilogy will always take a backseat to the originals. Sure the original trilogy was basically black and white but it worked for them, the prequels just always seemed off - like how everything seems so fancy and new (with the new computer graphics shoved in every nook & cranny) and then you watch the classics and wonder, "what happened to all of that technology? Did they relapse somehow?"

I definitely think the prequels could have been handled differently to make it sync-up more with the originals, but that's more or less a moot point now that TCW seems to be the main canon in Star Wars as far as GL is concerned


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Old 02-16-2012, 02:44 AM   #35
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Wait, everyone STOP! We have to spend several minutes talking about galactic politics and debate matters in the senate, blah, blah, blah, blah... "Now this is pod racing!"

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Old 02-16-2012, 05:42 AM   #36
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LOL I love being able to read people's edits


"They should rename the team to the Washington Government Sucks. Put Obama on the helmet. Line the entire walls of the stadium with the actual text of the ACA.
Fix their home team score on the board to the debt clock, they can win every game 17,000,000,000,000 to 24. Losing team gets taxed by the IRS 100%, then droned."
-Toker
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Old 02-16-2012, 06:35 AM   #37
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I can't believe anyone would actually argue with the points the RLM reviews made...

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Old 02-16-2012, 09:27 AM   #38
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Wait, everyone STOP! We have to spend several minutes talking about galactic politics and debate matters in the senate, blah, blah, blah, blah...
If I've a beef with anything, it's that they spent too little time talking about galactic politics in TPM. Who *are* the Trade Federation? Why do they have a massive droid army? How well-known are they? Just what is happening?!


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Old 02-16-2012, 09:39 AM   #39
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You could say the same thing about many aspects of the original series though, the difference is that we naturally wanted to have every detail explained to us by the time we saw the PT.

No, the problem that the PT had in that regard wasn't that it didn't take time to explain things, rather it didn't hold the suspension of disbelief as well as the OT. A lot of what goes on in the OT most people don't question... a lot of what goes on in the PT is questionable, though not all of it... after all the PT wasn't completely bad, just not up to par.

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Old 02-16-2012, 10:07 AM   #40
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I think the problem was that in the prequels you both didn't know the background or really what was going on in a more general sense, whereas in the OT you were similarly thrown in the deep end with no background info, but instantly recognised who the bad guys were at least. The OT is your simple and classic underdog vs overbearing evil authority figure. The prequels tread a much more nebulous path with all the political machinations going on - there is no real clear good or evil.

What was really required to pull off the setting for the prequels was a novel, not a series of 90 minute popcorn movies ostensibly aimed at children (as Lucas constantly claimed).
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