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View Poll Results: Do you want this cutscene re-implemented?
HECK YES! We need it 25 62.50%
Would say yes - if it fit a bit better 10 25.00%
Don't care 2 5.00%
HECK NO! 3 7.50%
Voters: 40. You may not vote on this poll


Thread: Darth Nihilus VS Darth Sion
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Old 02-05-2007, 09:59 PM   #1
Rockstar
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Cool Guy Darth Nihilus VS Darth Sion

Hi everybody.

Who here would like to see this cutscene placed into the restored game? http://youtube.com/watch?v=2_4r6GjgWDI
I have attached the script below at the bottom of my post

Please read my post before voting

Team Gizka have refused to implement it into the game for thier own reasons but after their project is out im sure there would be somebody here who could release a patch ontop of the TSLRP to include it!

A good place to position it would be straight after the council reunion on Dantooine, and the last Jedi Council Member has fallen. Darth Sion tells Darth Nihilus that the Jedi Order has been destroyed. This can be explained both ways:

LS: The sith would surely of sensed the union Jedi Masters and would have likely sensed the death of them. The 'Jedi Order' at this point IS destroyed. The exile was... well ... exiled! He is only ever really considered a Jedi as such by the Exchange (who really only use it as a label to take him down by).

DS: With all the Jedi Masters dead, and the last Jedi, Atris and the exile, turned to the darkside there are no more Jedi... Darth Sion could have sensed the shear growth in the darkside inside the exile from murdering his former master. The order is gone and now there are only the Sith.

As for explaining Nihilus having a past encounter with Kreia, In Sion's opening battle with Kreia he says that she is "difficult to kill". This gives the impression that her apprentices have made attempts on her life before. If i remember correct, Sion looked suprised that she was still alive.

I know that i'm stretching making this scene make sense but even the star wars movies have plot holes in and out and this game has plothole ANYWAY (even though this scene makes sense when placed here). The original placement of this scene was meant to be after Sion had thought to had killed the exile in an explosion but in the cutscene he says "the jedi order is destroyed" hense we can ignore this and the coolest thing about TSL is the mysterious atmosphere of it!

Perhaps other board members could brainstorm any other reasons of including this cutscene that i may have overlooked
__________________________________________________ __________
__________________________________________________ __________
SCRIPT

(Sion approaches Nihilus on his ship)

Sion:

- The Jedi Order is finished. I did what you, with all your power, you could not do

- There is more. Darth Traya lives. You did not kill her, as you presumed

- Our alliance is finished. I have no need of you

(Sion turns his back and walks away before pausing and replying to Darth Nihilus)

- I have never needed you

(Sion is drained and falls to the floor. He stands no chance against Nihilus. Sion's body is then rekindled with dark force energy resurrecting him again and forcing him to walk away in defeat (a battle that could not be won on either front!)

This cutscene shows how Nihilus drains his enemies before we encounter him, actually making it look like a twist when the exile gets drained and harms Nihilus. It shows that ONLY the exile could have killed him when Sion could not even kill him. This would largely create the build up to Darth Nihilus that everybody has complained the game was lacking (currently we saw ONE DIALOGUE BASED cutscene then we killed him later on...)

In my opinion having this scene in the game far outweighs reasons for not having it in there.

Last edited by Rockstar; 02-05-2007 at 10:15 PM.
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Old 02-05-2007, 10:26 PM   #2
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I haven't watched the YouTube video yet (but I will in a couple of minutes) but the script and the way that you explain it sounds like it should definitely be implemented in a mod and it was too bad that it was left out.

EDIT:
On now having actually seen the video, I am very disappointed that they took out the force crush/lightning aspects of Nihilus' power. I though that was pretty cool.
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Old 02-06-2007, 01:07 AM   #3
Diego Varen
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Anyone notice this Thread? Anyway, I've seen that video and it shouldn't be put back into TSL. It is a fan made video and Nihilus' power is too unrealistic there, since he casts two dark side Force powers at the same time. So no! If anything, I would like to be able to understand what Nihilus is saying.
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Old 02-06-2007, 01:55 AM   #4
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Old 02-06-2007, 02:18 AM   #5
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umm if that's your only reason why it shouldn't be in there i really don't see why you are objectinging. I don't see it as him casting two powers at once in that scene. I don't think he is really force crushing him! it's just animating Sion being drained

That scene was MEANT to make Darth Nihilus look powerful! The fact is that he could defeat any Jedi or Sith and it was because the exile was a wound in the force that meant that the exile was the only one who could defeat him Please don't object to this scene being included just because you like Darth Sion more than Darth Nihilus because they were both good characters and had different strengths. One could destroy anything and the other could survive anything. Darth Sion walks away but it was a stalemate anyway!!!
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Old 02-06-2007, 02:25 AM   #6
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I'm glad it made Nihilus look more powerful, since he didn't have much about him and I don't mind him as much as I used to. He will even be in my Saga, with Sion. I have to agree with you Rockstar. This scene would have to be after the Jedi Council is defeated or if Sion didn't know about them, after the Exile's supposed death.
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Old 02-06-2007, 10:24 AM   #7
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I'd prefer it to be restored, but Team Gizka have given good reasons why they are not going to.

The problem with the scene is that Sion assumes the Exile to be the last jedi (which is why he is hunting him.) It was supposed to take place after the exile is presumed dead by both companions and enemies, including Sion, after the Genoharadan set a trap for him on Nar Shaddaa. The plot was changed in the final version of the game, however, and it is now optional when you decide to play Nar Shaddaa. That creates a potential plot conflict with how Sion turns up at various other points in the game, such as Korriban. I do believe that is the reason why Team Gizka decided against it.

But yes, it's cool.

@Topside: How can you argue Nihilus looks too powerful?!? This is the guy whom we know for a fact is supposed to eat planets full of jedi for lunch!! How can such a being possibly be made to look too powerful???


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Old 02-06-2007, 12:03 PM   #8
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defintely and the vash one as well!


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Old 02-06-2007, 04:27 PM   #9
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Definitely. It would give us a much better look at Nihilus' power (and Sion's as well) and how powerful he truly is.
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Old 02-06-2007, 08:58 PM   #10
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I loved it! Now, if they can just make Nihilus a better fight for the Exile...


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Old 02-07-2007, 03:35 AM   #11
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Does anybody have the knowledge (or know somebody who does) of how to include this cutscene to join to the end of the events on Dantooine. This way we can include it as we like

ofcoarse we have to wait for the TSLRP for this anyway

I'm glad to see im not alone in wanting this cutscene included
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Old 02-07-2007, 10:29 AM   #12
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What a cheesy cutscene. I'm glad it's not in the game. Even though it is a display of Nihilus' lame power. It's just too poorly done.
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Old 02-07-2007, 11:10 AM   #13
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The scene is top-notch. They should have put that in there instead of that god-awful scene, where Sion declares his love for the female exile (and several times, too - yuck!).

Even though Nihilus uses his power on the exile, this is a much better demonstration of his unfathomable power, which enhances the mystery surrounding him without taking away from his unsettling character. We also get to see Sion for zombie-like being that he really is.


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Old 02-07-2007, 12:58 PM   #14
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HECK, yeah. you bet, we can see multiple stuff here, we could not before, such as the internal conflict between the Sith factions.
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Old 02-07-2007, 05:46 PM   #15
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i liked it, it added more depth to the sith factions


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Old 02-07-2007, 08:11 PM   #16
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It sounds nice, but it also sorts of weaken Sion as well, making him seem weak. It may have to be done, but still, if there was some other cutscene that shows Nihlius power, say, Colonel Tobin talking to Nihlius, or Nihilus draining Katarr.


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"The Cambodian government has established many exciting-sounding 're-education camps' where both intellectuals and everyday citizens can be sent at any time," Day said. Well, we at Barnes & Noble have always supported re-education in America, and we intend to extend this policy to our new customers." For every hardcover book sold, Barnes & Noble will donate a dollar to the Cambodian government to help re-educate local children.
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Old 02-08-2007, 08:03 PM   #17
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HOW may i ask does it make Darth Sion look weak???? He defeated your MASTER in a single attack... Sion was already beefed up as a strong enemy. He simply could not defeat Nihilus because nobody BUT the exile could.

Anyway, to address the issue more constructively, does anybody here know how to create a patch to reimplement this cutscene where we think it should be? if you can you are a legend lol
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Old 02-08-2007, 08:41 PM   #18
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How would it Sion look weak? If anything, I would think it would make him look powerful. Nihilus blasts him with his drain, but boom, Sion gets right back up like nothing happened. That scene gives us a much better look at how powerful each of them truly is.
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Old 02-08-2007, 09:14 PM   #19
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Quote:
HOW may i ask does it make Darth Sion look weak???? He defeated your MASTER in a single attack... Sion was already beefed up as a strong enemy. He simply could not defeat Nihilus because nobody BUT the exile could.
Quote:
How would it Sion look weak? If anything, I would think it would make him look powerful. Nihilus blasts him with his drain, but boom, Sion gets right back up like nothing happened. That scene gives us a much better look at how powerful each of them truly is.
Eh, I interpet it as if Sion got "pwned" and is now broken under Nihlius, since Nihlius just talked to Sion, and all Sion did was walk away, without taunting him...suggesting that Nihlius has defeated Sion. After all, Sion fell down and had to struggle to get up...that is far more different than when you battled Sion. I still think it makes him feel a bit weak.

And, to me, Sion defeated Kreia because Kreia wanted Sion to defeat her, to prove the force bond of The Exile, and therefore, be able to manlipuate The Exile further for her own secret plans.


Quote:
Originally Posted by The Onion
"The Cambodian government has established many exciting-sounding 're-education camps' where both intellectuals and everyday citizens can be sent at any time," Day said. Well, we at Barnes & Noble have always supported re-education in America, and we intend to extend this policy to our new customers." For every hardcover book sold, Barnes & Noble will donate a dollar to the Cambodian government to help re-educate local children.
Full Article Here
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Old 02-09-2007, 08:32 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SilentScope001
Eh, I interpet it as if Sion got "pwned" and is now broken under Nihlius, since Nihlius just talked to Sion, and all Sion did was walk away, without taunting him...suggesting that Nihlius has defeated Sion. After all, Sion fell down and had to struggle to get up...that is far more different than when you battled Sion. I still think it makes him feel a bit weak.

And, to me, Sion defeated Kreia because Kreia wanted Sion to defeat her, to prove the force bond of The Exile, and therefore, be able to manlipuate The Exile further for her own secret plans.
..you don't deliberately maim yourself by losing a limb to prove a point.

You are probably a diehard Sion fan and believe this makes him look weaker.

Trust me my friend, i am a huge fan of BOTH sithlords. The fact remains that anybody who knows what is happening knew that NOBODY could defeat Nihilus as he drained everything to death that got close to him. Sion's skill with a lightsaber was probably greater as he actually needed to use it far more often than Nihilus ever did, however Sion was THE ONLY one who got up after being drained because the force regathered in his broken body to revive him again... HOW does this not make him look powerful??? he walked away from a devourer of worlds!

This scene shows just how powerful this wicked alliance is ... you may think it made Nihilus look the stronger but Nihilus' insatiable hunger would have led him to drain Sion to death. He didn't JUST let him walk away. He knew he could not kill Darth Sion. The battle is a stalemate and i think that anybody who knows enough about the game to DL the TSLRP knows how both of these wicked Sithlords are both infinately powerful in their own way. This scene also shows how proudly powerful Sion is by chosing to end the alliance with Nihilus. "I NEVER needed you"... saying this line to a devourer of worlds? This is pride and power of only a true warrior.

This scene only magnifies both of these Sithlords abilities and creates a buildup for Darth Nihilus (who we don't even know drains his opponents ... we just see him try it and get hurt, if we saw it happen to Sion with no negative consequence we may have got the twist without thinking twice).

This scene rocks and i hope that somebody .. ANYBODY can restore it to the end of Tatooine in a patch
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Old 02-09-2007, 10:04 AM   #21
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I actually like Nihilus far more than Sion, but I don't think this scene depicts Sion as having submitted to Nihilus.

They're at a stalemate, as far as I can tell - Nihilus can't kill Sion, because Sion can't die, but on the other hand, Sion has no power that match Nihilus'. So to continue their conflict is pointless, because it would also have the same outcome, and Sion just accepts it and leaves (seeing as how they're on Nihilus' ship).


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Old 02-09-2007, 10:51 AM   #22
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^ couldn't have said it better Think about it. if Nihilus had boarded Sion and made an attempt on his life then HE would have left. Don't knock this scene because of the coarse it takes

It also shows Darth Sion's corrupt nature in turning on his ally
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Old 02-09-2007, 11:57 AM   #23
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..you don't deliberately maim yourself by losing a limb to prove a point.

You are probably a diehard Sion fan and believe this makes him look weaker.
No, actually diehard Kreia fan. And Kreia is...er...mentally unstable, of course she would maim herself to prove a point.

But if lots of people see that Sion is made more powerful by this cutscene, so be it. Anything to make this game better is fine by me!

I do ask that this get tacked onto the end of the Lonna Vash mod, having Sion boast about the killing of Vash and not of the Exile, seems to be the most logically way.


Quote:
Originally Posted by The Onion
"The Cambodian government has established many exciting-sounding 're-education camps' where both intellectuals and everyday citizens can be sent at any time," Day said. Well, we at Barnes & Noble have always supported re-education in America, and we intend to extend this policy to our new customers." For every hardcover book sold, Barnes & Noble will donate a dollar to the Cambodian government to help re-educate local children.
Full Article Here
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Old 02-09-2007, 01:57 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SilentScope001
I do ask that this get tacked onto the end of the Lonna Vash mod, having Sion boast about the killing of Vash and not of the Exile, seems to be the most logically way.
That does make sense, actually, except perhaps that Vash sacrifices herself to save the exile, and Sion knows that, meaning that he knows the exile is alive. That presents a problem, since he perceives the exile as a jedi, and he turns on Nihilus only because he presumes all the jedi to be dead.


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Old 02-09-2007, 02:23 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jediphile
I actually like Nihilus far more than Sion, but I don't think this scene depicts Sion as having submitted to Nihilus.

They're at a stalemate, as far as I can tell - Nihilus can't kill Sion, because Sion can't die, but on the other hand, Sion has no power that match Nihilus'. So to continue their conflict is pointless, because it would also have the same outcome, and Sion just accepts it and leaves (seeing as how they're on Nihilus' ship).
Nicely said. It would be meaningless since it would be a match to see when Nihilus would run out of juice, and it would be a long long time indeed. Would be nice if Nihilus actually use that awsome power during the game though.

And yes it woudl be really hard to fit that into the current game story.
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Old 02-09-2007, 04:32 PM   #26
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That does make sense, actually, except perhaps that Vash sacrifices herself to save the exile, and Sion knows that, meaning that he knows the exile is alive. That presents a problem, since he perceives the exile as a jedi, and he turns on Nihilus only because he presumes all the jedi to be dead.
To me, Sion believes that The Exile is the only Jedi that mattered. He is a student from Kreia, and according to some cut content, Kreia was exiled because she wanted to spare The Exile.

All the other Jedi are falling to the DS, or pose no threat. But The Exile is the one that can threaten and destroy the Sith. He really is the Last of the Jedi...Vash lost pacisfism, Vrook lost compassion, and Kavar lost the ability to share knoweldge. Zek-Kel knows about the failures of the Jedi, but decided to do nothing and instead ran. The Exile is the only one that can reform the Jedi Order, and that is why The Exile must be destroyed...

Now you mention it, Sion wouldn't really care about the death of Vash, but only the death of The Exile.


Quote:
Originally Posted by The Onion
"The Cambodian government has established many exciting-sounding 're-education camps' where both intellectuals and everyday citizens can be sent at any time," Day said. Well, we at Barnes & Noble have always supported re-education in America, and we intend to extend this policy to our new customers." For every hardcover book sold, Barnes & Noble will donate a dollar to the Cambodian government to help re-educate local children.
Full Article Here
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Old 02-10-2007, 04:17 AM   #27
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yes that is true but Darth Sion may have believed that Vash was the last TRUE Jedi (meaning he dind't know there were any more until he encountered her) The exile is not believed as a jedi because they are.. exiled! lol

well i think that sticking it at the end of the koresant vash patch would be good. Between the scene where you leave the planet and the scene where your ship docks to the next planet is where we should see it.

Either that or at the end of Dantooine
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Old 02-10-2007, 12:58 PM   #28
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Never thought Sion woudl consider Vash as last of the Jedi, and I doubt it. At the last battle between Sion and you, Sion said, "I will see the Last of the Jedi fall to my feet at last." So Sion obivously saw The Exile as the Last of the Jedi, even when the Jedi Order 'exiled' him.

It's like Bao-Dur said, the Jedi title stick with you no matter what.

But anything that can restore that scene may be good. At least something that could make some sort of sense...

Actually, I wonder if you could put it RIGHT AFTER the Peragus cutscene where Peragus explodes. Why? Well, Peragus explodes, and the Ebon Hawk is not expected to surivie such an explosion, and since the Ebon Hawk has The Exile on it...Sion is one happy little person, since he either killed The Exile...or The Exile killed himself (by destroying Peragus). Sion then boards Nihlius' ship and boast to him that he has won...It would also be a nice entrance to Darth Nihlius as well, introducing him right after Peragus, and starting him off as a scary being. First impressions are always good.


Quote:
Originally Posted by The Onion
"The Cambodian government has established many exciting-sounding 're-education camps' where both intellectuals and everyday citizens can be sent at any time," Day said. Well, we at Barnes & Noble have always supported re-education in America, and we intend to extend this policy to our new customers." For every hardcover book sold, Barnes & Noble will donate a dollar to the Cambodian government to help re-educate local children.
Full Article Here
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Old 02-10-2007, 01:35 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SilentScope001
Never thought Sion woudl consider Vash as last of the Jedi, and I doubt it. At the last battle between Sion and you, Sion said, "I will see the Last of the Jedi fall to my feet at last." So Sion obivously saw The Exile as the Last of the Jedi, even when the Jedi Order 'exiled' him.

It's like Bao-Dur said, the Jedi title stick with you no matter what.

But anything that can restore that scene may be good. At least something that could make some sort of sense...

Actually, I wonder if you could put it RIGHT AFTER the Peragus cutscene where Peragus explodes. Why? Well, Peragus explodes, and the Ebon Hawk is not expected to surivie such an explosion, and since the Ebon Hawk has The Exile on it...Sion is one happy little person, since he either killed The Exile...or The Exile killed himself (by destroying Peragus). Sion then boards Nihlius' ship and boast to him that he has won...It would also be a nice entrance to Darth Nihlius as well, introducing him right after Peragus, and starting him off as a scary being. First impressions are always good.
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Old 02-10-2007, 03:29 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SilentScope001
Actually, I wonder if you could put it RIGHT AFTER the Peragus cutscene where Peragus explodes. Why? Well, Peragus explodes, and the Ebon Hawk is not expected to surivie such an explosion, and since the Ebon Hawk has The Exile on it...Sion is one happy little person, since he either killed The Exile...or The Exile killed himself (by destroying Peragus). Sion then boards Nihlius' ship and boast to him that he has won...It would also be a nice entrance to Darth Nihlius as well, introducing him right after Peragus, and starting him off as a scary being. First impressions are always good.
I think that is too early in the plot, because that happens before Nihilus senses the exile and sends out Visas to find him. I don't think Sion can break the alliance with Nihilus until after that.

The real problem is that to have the scene, you do need the genoharadan plot back, yet there is no way to guarantee that the player plays through Nar Shaddaa before Korriban. But I would accept a change to force, even if it means "railroading" the game plot a little. You could have parts of the files T3 stole from Atris be corrupted so that the locations of the masters are unknown, except that Zez-Kai Ell is on Nar Shaddaa. Once the Exile is then done with Nar Shaddaa, T3 has conveniently restored the remaining files just in time to continue the quest. Yes, it's strained, but I would accept it. After all, the game is pretty linear anyway...


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Old 02-10-2007, 04:38 PM   #31
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I think that is too early in the plot, because that happens before Nihilus senses the exile and sends out Visas to find him. I don't think Sion can break the alliance with Nihilus until after that.
Hmmm, maybe a little early, but I also think its a cool place to have it if it were possible to remove the mention of the smugglers moon. As Sion as Nihilus were seeking out the 'Last of the Jedi' they just seek to destroy them, they don't really see any of the remaining Jedi as a threat. But for the second Nihilus cut scene when he sends out Visas it means he has sensed a disturbance in the force and so however unlikely and small this threat to him could be he sends out Visas to look into it; and obviously thats the exile.



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Old 02-10-2007, 05:11 PM   #32
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But for the second Nihilus cut scene when he sends out Visas it means he has sensed a disturbance in the force and so however unlikely and small this threat to him could be he sends out Visas to look into it; and obviously thats the exile.
You can retcon the cutscene to say that Nihlius finds out The Exile is actually alive...or that Nihlius never knew anything of the Exile and that Sion is just boasting about wiping out the Jedi Order without actually going into specifics.

It may be too early, giving away too many plot points, but then again, many people already know what is happening (the game being quite old, and the "Traya" twist is not really a twist), and to me, it seems the most logical place without having to add in new events, railroading the player, or scripting events where the Exile get "killed off".


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Old 02-10-2007, 05:56 PM   #33
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If it is somehow included, then I think the place SilentScope suggested is the most fitting. It may be a little early, but there aren't too many places in the game where it would fit.
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Old 02-10-2007, 08:22 PM   #34
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You can retcon the cutscene to say that Nihlius finds out The Exile is actually alive...or that Nihlius never knew anything of the Exile and that Sion is just boasting about wiping out the Jedi Order without actually going into specifics.

It may be too early, giving away too many plot points, but then again, many people already know what is happening (the game being quite old, and the "Traya" twist is not really a twist), and to me, it seems the most logical place without having to add in new events, railroading the player, or scripting events where the Exile get "killed off".
Well, you kind of know that Kreia was once Traya anyways, and if the Sion vs Nihilus scene occurs if anyone hadnt played TSL before they would be like who is Darth Traya, and when "Kreia's fall" is played they would be like aahhh now I get it. But for anyone else playing the game, they obviously already know.



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Old 02-10-2007, 11:24 PM   #35
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There is NO ruining the Traya twist because the twist is that she is STILL Darth Traya. We learn very early that she trained Darth Sion (in their battle) and if you talk to your characters like you are meant to you find that she was once a Sithlord and was exiled by them. To both her apprentises she was, and still is, aquanted to them as Darth Traya.

I think Korraban is too early for their alliance to terminate and we should have it after the Council's reunion. No matter where you put the cutscene, their speech could still reflect the past events with Vash.

Another suggestion could be after you defeat Atris. May you kill her or redeem her she is the last REAL Jedi and if Sion was already near the Ravage(which is just above Telos preparing for assault). Perhaps their strength as Sithlords would allow them to sense the events that Atris was either killed or no longer a sith OR a jedi (when you redeem her she is just a mental wreck)

Here the order really is destroyed and all that Sion needs to do now is kill the Exile. he no longer needs Darth Nihilus and hense the alliance falls.

However, i still believe after Dantooine is the best place as it makes as much sense with Sion killing Vash on Korriban and later meets up with Nihilus. It is a feel good place to put it and makes a build up for both Sithlords
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Old 02-11-2007, 07:21 AM   #36
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The real problem is that no matter what, Sion will find out that the Exile is still alive on Korriban, but since there is no way to determine whether that is played before or after Nar Shaddaa (or M4-78, if that is ever restored), you really can't fit it nicely into the plot.

You do get the "Kreia's fall" scene early, but not until you reach Telos station, which is where Nihilus will sense the exile and send out Visas. Of course, we could argue that Nihilus merely senses the exile due to the special connection between them, but I don't think that would be clear - of course the person he senses must be a jedi, and so he can just tell Sion, "nope, there is still one jedi out there."

I suppose if the Vash scene is restored in a way that leaves Sion with the impression that both Vash and Exile are dead, then it solves the problem, as the scene could then trigger after Sion thinks the exile dead on either Nar Shaddaa or M4-78.


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Old 02-11-2007, 12:45 PM   #37
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You do get the "Kreia's fall" scene early, but not until you reach Telos station, which is where Nihilus will sense the exile and send out Visas.
Actually, there are 2 ways you get that Nihilus cutscene:
1. Get extreme alignment. High DS or High LS allows Visas to hear you.
2. Find 3 out of the 4 Jedi Masters.

So, theoritcally, your idea won't work if I am a Grey Jedi and I complete 3 planets, including Korriban. Then Nihlius finds Visas, right after Sion learns that I am alive...

Quote:
Of course, we could argue that Nihilus merely senses the exile due to the special connection between them, but I don't think that would be clear - of course the person he senses must be a jedi, and so he can just tell Sion, "nope, there is still one jedi out there."
What if that is what Nihlius said? Obivously, Nihlius is happy at the taunting of Sion that way, and that could explain why Sion left...to go and find the Exile.

But I thought it was clear Visas was able to sense The Exile due to the Exile's extereme alignment, LS or DS, and that is why Nihilus sent Visas out.

The scene after Peragus is the only one that makes sense without having to script anything much. And there are so many retcons that can occur so that everything would be doing fine.


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Old 02-11-2007, 03:12 PM   #38
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Actually, there are 2 ways you get that Nihilus cutscene:
1. Get extreme alignment. High DS or High LS allows Visas to hear you.
2. Find 3 out of the 4 Jedi Masters.

So, theoritcally, your idea won't work if I am a Grey Jedi and I complete 3 planets, including Korriban. Then Nihlius finds Visas, right after Sion learns that I am alive...
So they both know that the exile is alive instead of just one of them... So what?

The problem lies with putting the cutscene at a point in the plot when Sion believes the exile to be dead and Nihilus having no reason to doubt him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SilentScope001
What if that is what Nihlius said? Obivously, Nihlius is happy at the taunting of Sion that way, and that could explain why Sion left...to go and find the Exile.
First, I do believe Nihilus sends Visas to find the exile because there is a special connection between them. However, I don't think that would be obvious from the cutscene, and I don't think it should be either, because it unveils the connection between them too soon in the plot.

Second, Sion doesn't walk off in order to find the exile, but because the alliance is ended. If Nihilus could have told Sion there is still a jedi left, Sion would not have ended their alliance, methinks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SilentScope001
But I thought it was clear Visas was able to sense The Exile due to the Exile's extereme alignment, LS or DS, and that is why Nihilus sent Visas out.
True. For Visas, at least.


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Old 02-11-2007, 09:38 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by Jediphile
The problem lies with putting the cutscene at a point in the plot when Sion believes the exile to be dead and Nihilus having no reason to doubt him.


Second, Sion doesn't walk off in order to find the exile, but because the alliance is ended. If Nihilus could have told Sion there is still a jedi left, Sion would not have ended their alliance, methinks.

ok i think that people are thinking far too hard about this lol

WHERE does it say that the exile is dead in the cutscene?? There was actually additional dialogue in that scene but it was removed as it did make reference to the exile. Its not important if Nihilus tells Sion to go look for the exile. Actually it works better with Darth Nihilus just letting Sion walk away because it is a stalemate. Do we find Darth Sion following us again in the game after here? NO! We run into him twice 1) at Malacore V and 2) either before or after Narshada at Korriban. Even still, if we played it as Nihilus correcting Sion and telling him that the exile is still alive then he would probably be waiting as he had no clue where the exile is.

Is there a scene in Narshadda where the exile is presumed dead?

I definately agree now that this scene should be after the escape from Korriban with the Vash Mod. So that Vash pushed the exile away and was killed by Darth Sion (who cannot be defeated with Korriban running through him). This scene shows how powerful Darth Sion is by taking out a Jedi Master. You have now run to your ship and taken off to your next planet NOW with no further ado please click the link on the top of the page and watch the cutscene. Done? Ok now imagine your ship docking at the next planet. -END- and continue play as normal.

Here Darth Sion HAS ended the Jedi Order whom they could not find for so long. He has defeated and killed her and this is a great reason to gloat. He goes to Nihilus as he has killed the LAST jedi, there are no more. He does not need Nihlus' ability to destroy planets. He doesn't need nihilus any more. There is only the exile (who is not a Jedi) and he wants the exile for himself he becomes obsessed with the exile either gender, LS or DS just becaues of what he is and his old master's facination in the exile. With only the exile remaining Darth Sion (with his immortal powers) only has to worry about the one he is interested in and he has the strength to do whatever he wants to him/her.

THIS IS PERFECT lol
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Old 02-12-2007, 11:48 AM   #40
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^^

You're completely missing a couple of rather significant points in the plot.

1. Sion and Nihilus know nothing of the surviving jedi masters.

2. They think the exile is the last jedi (because Atris leaked information about the exile to them to make him a target).

3. Conclusion: Nihilus and, especially, Sion hunt the exile, not the jedi masters. As Bao-Dur says, the stigma of being a jedi sticks to the exile whether it's true or not, because Nihilus and Sion consider the exile to be jedi and won't be told otherwise. That's why Sion is hunting Exile before and on Peragus. If they don't consider the exile to be a jedi, then the entire plot in TSL falls apart.

And yes, there was originally a bit on Nar Shaddaa where the exile is presumably killed in an explosion set by the Genoharadan, but that too is cut content. I don't remember if TSLRP will restore it. It left everyone thinking the exile is dead, including the exile's companions. Sion thought so too, which is why he thinks the jedi are extinct and breaks the alliance with Nihilus.


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