lfnetwork.com mark read register faq members calendar

Thread: Making kotor tool maps
Thread Tools Display Modes
Post a new thread. Add a reply to this thread. Indicate all threads in this forum as read. Subscribe to this forum. RSS feed: this forum RSS feed: all forums
Old 05-24-2013, 07:34 PM   #1
Darth Sapiens
Rookie
 
Darth Sapiens's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 106
Current Game: tslrcm
Making kotor tool maps

Hey guys, I think I have something exciting here, it isn't bullet proof yet but I think I am hot on the tail of creating kotor tool maps,
well, the kotor tool ".MAP" is actually a jpeg renamed to MAP, basically a shot from the top down of a module's floor (not that tricky to do), then, the info of interest, and hard-ish part is in the mapinfo.BFD this is what gives the module editor information like the offsets of the picture and I think the rotation. I'm a huge hex Noob, but even I can tell what the structure is, theoretically one can just append to the bfd an entry. BFD is a pretty popular GNU format I think,
If I am correct this means it can be turned into an xml, something a little more familiar to people, and then turned back to the bfd.
Here are some links to look up:
http://collaboratory.emsl.pnl.gov/sam/bfd/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binary_...riptor_library
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binary_...ption_language

So, I am not a great programmer, but I think a tool could be made to easily edit an append new map values.

What might this mean for modding? (If I am not mistaken) custom module mods can be made easier, no more manual coordinate finding and GIT editing to place things any more, we can make up the maps for Kotor tool that hadn't been made yet.

this thread has a mirror-thread on Deadlystream.

I'll post any updates I find here or there.


Darth Sapiens is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 05-25-2013, 12:31 AM   #2
Canderis
Mercenary
 
Canderis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Unknown
Posts: 2,503
Current Game: Skyrim
Veteran Modder Helpful! 
Does the map editor even work? I never really have tried to use it.




Canderis is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 05-25-2013, 03:11 AM   #3
Darth Sapiens
Rookie
 
Darth Sapiens's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 106
Current Game: tslrcm
I haven't used it much myself, definitely not for any serious projects yet, but this could be helpful for the scrapyard games and a few other module mods. I know a few modders have used it before (with the maps on the ktool site.)


Darth Sapiens is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 05-25-2013, 03:35 AM   #4
Marius Fett
Frigged if I know!
 
Marius Fett's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Wales
Posts: 3,379
I think it's been pretty much universally accepted over the years that doing these things manually is the way to go. Gives you much more precision in placing things into your areas.




Visit the new JediKnight.net!
Marius Fett is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 05-25-2013, 05:15 AM   #5
Vindikorr
Rookie
 
Vindikorr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 121
Current Game: TOR
I don't know, I've used maps in my mod and you can place things very precisely with coordinates. Not to mention I still haven't got my head around kotors orientation system. I for one would like to see this.


My WIP: The Liberation of Manaan

Quote:
Originally Posted by Totalbiscuit
Can tell it's been a busy day, 121 Chrome tabs open
28.04428% on the geek test

Bile Beans keep you healthy, bright-eyed and slim
Vindikorr is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 05-25-2013, 08:14 AM   #6
glovemaster
Now-a-days GroovyCarrot
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Liverpool, UK
Posts: 697
Current Game: No time for games, sadly
Helpful! 
A method I used when I modded with areas involved decompiling all of the binary models for the module and importing them into 3dsmax, then use the module's room positioning data with the room base nodes to build the entire module, which gives you much more control at designing the module. If you wanted to take it a step further you could even import placeables and design the entire module like that, also by importing texture detail you can accurately and quickly do module reskins


If you're looking for any of the junk I did a few years ago; you can probably still find it all on filefront
glovemaster is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 05-25-2013, 09:30 AM   #7
supreme kotor
Junior Member
 
supreme kotor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: I'm lost.
Posts: 324
Current Game: Modding.. Wait is that a game?
^So if I'm not misunderstanding you took the original model(s) into 3dsMax and reskined added places ect... Then ran it through Kaurora and used the model in game?


Current WIP: Learning to mod Kotor
supreme kotor is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 05-25-2013, 10:24 AM   #8
Marius Fett
Frigged if I know!
 
Marius Fett's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Wales
Posts: 3,379
No, he's saying he imported all the room models for an area into
Max, used the layout co-ordinates in the game files to arrange them accordingly, then placed NPC's and placeables that way in the 3D scene itself.

A good method, provided you've got the patience to build the modules in Max.

Oh, and you've got to remember to convert the co-ordinates from centimetres to meters, which is what the game uses. Or is it tother way round?




Visit the new JediKnight.net!
Marius Fett is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 05-25-2013, 06:24 PM   #9
logan23
Veteran
 
logan23's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: East Coast
Posts: 910
Current Game: Revenge of Revan
Veteran Modder Forum Veteran Contest winner - Modding Hot Topic Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by glovemaster View Post
A method I used when I modded with areas involved decompiling all of the binary models for the module and importing them into 3dsmax, then use the module's room positioning data with the room base nodes to build the entire module, which gives you much more control at designing the module. If you wanted to take it a step further you could even import placeables and design the entire module like that, also by importing texture detail you can accurately and quickly do module reskins
Just wondering, how long does that take?

Are you connecting all sections of the module- which is originally broken up when importing to 3dsmax

logan23 is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 05-25-2013, 06:28 PM   #10
Marius Fett
Frigged if I know!
 
Marius Fett's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Wales
Posts: 3,379
Quote:
Originally Posted by logan23 View Post
Just wondering, how long does that take?

Are you connecting all sections of the module- which is originally broken up when importing to 3dsmax
The actual building of the module in Max can be pretty time consuming, but after that, it 's plain sailing.

Makes things a lot quicker than starting and quitting the game every few minutes to test things.




Visit the new JediKnight.net!
Marius Fett is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 05-25-2013, 06:51 PM   #11
logan23
Veteran
 
logan23's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: East Coast
Posts: 910
Current Game: Revenge of Revan
Veteran Modder Forum Veteran Contest winner - Modding Hot Topic Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marius Fett View Post
The actual building of the module in Max can be pretty time consuming, but after that, it 's plain sailing.

Makes things a lot quicker than starting and quitting the game every few minutes to test things.
I would love to see a tutorial on - once you have the module sections connected - how this would be done and show how easy to jump in and out.

Does this work with placeing triggers or just NPCs, PLCs, and skins?

If connecting the modules sections into the one map- how do you know you did it right and didn't say- think you did place some npcs and then import= disaster?
Is there an error message?

logan23 is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 05-25-2013, 07:15 PM   #12
glovemaster
Now-a-days GroovyCarrot
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Liverpool, UK
Posts: 697
Current Game: No time for games, sadly
Helpful! 
Quote:
Originally Posted by logan23 View Post
I would love to see a tutorial on - once you have the module sections connected - how this would be done and show how easy to jump in and out.

Does this work with placeing triggers or just NPCs, PLCs, and skins?

If connecting the modules sections into the one map- how do you know you did it right and didn't say- think you did place some npcs and then import= disaster?
Is there an error message?
No it's only really useful for getting coordinates from the scene, you still have to do everything manually


If you're looking for any of the junk I did a few years ago; you can probably still find it all on filefront
glovemaster is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 05-25-2013, 07:20 PM   #13
logan23
Veteran
 
logan23's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: East Coast
Posts: 910
Current Game: Revenge of Revan
Veteran Modder Forum Veteran Contest winner - Modding Hot Topic Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by glovemaster View Post
No it's only really useful for getting coordinates from the scene, you still have to do everything manually
Would it be easier to reskin the modules in this method?

So if i want say a room in the western section of the module to have skins which i only want to show up in that room and not get repeated throughout the whole module- would this be a better way.

Sorry for so many questions.

logan23 is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 05-25-2013, 07:30 PM   #14
JCarter426
Senior Member
 
JCarter426's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Look to your left.
Posts: 1,635
You could hex edit the models in order to have them use different textures. Importing everything into 3ds would make identifying the models a lot easier.

Regarding making new maps... the map editor is great, and it's a shame so few modules are supported. I investigated this a while back, but I got just about as far; as far as I can tell, the BFD format is no longer supported by its creators.


JCarter426 is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 05-26-2013, 07:02 AM   #15
Marius Fett
Frigged if I know!
 
Marius Fett's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Wales
Posts: 3,379
Quote:
Originally Posted by logan23 View Post
Would it be easier to reskin the modules in this method?

So if i want say a room in the western section of the module to have skins which i only want to show up in that room and not get repeated throughout the whole module- would this be a better way.

Sorry for so many questions.
Like JC said, you can just import the model part you want into Max and skin the area with a 'live preview' then Hex Edit the binary model afterwards. REALLY useful method of area skinning. Whenever I've redlined areas, this is the method I've used as standard.




Visit the new JediKnight.net!
Marius Fett is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 05-27-2013, 02:08 AM   #16
logan23
Veteran
 
logan23's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: East Coast
Posts: 910
Current Game: Revenge of Revan
Veteran Modder Forum Veteran Contest winner - Modding Hot Topic Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JCarter426 View Post
You could hex edit the models in order to have them use different textures. Importing everything into 3ds would make identifying the models a lot easier.

Regarding making new maps... the map editor is great, and it's a shame so few modules are supported. I investigated this a while back, but I got just about as far; as far as I can tell, the BFD format is no longer supported by its creators.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marius Fett View Post
Like JC said, you can just import the model part you want into Max and skin the area with a 'live preview' then Hex Edit the binary model afterwards. REALLY useful method of area skinning. Whenever I've redlined areas, this is the method I've used as standard.
Thanks for the tip!

It is a lot easier to reskin and test before placing it in the actual game.

One question I do have is the effectiveness of some of the skins, ex metal, - I like the new skin but when in game- I see that the reflective metal doesn't match. How would i resolve this?
Do I need to get skin with or without the txt option with the skin export in kotortools?

thanks in advance =)

logan23 is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 05-27-2013, 05:03 AM   #17
Marius Fett
Frigged if I know!
 
Marius Fett's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Wales
Posts: 3,379
If you mean what I think you mean, then removing or dumbing down the CM_BareMetal should help. Just tweak the Alpha channel of the texture to increase the white.




Visit the new JediKnight.net!
Marius Fett is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 06-05-2013, 08:54 PM   #18
supreme kotor
Junior Member
 
supreme kotor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: I'm lost.
Posts: 324
Current Game: Modding.. Wait is that a game?
Well I looked into this quite a bit more and I'm going to have to say there's nothing we would gain from new maps. Now that you think I'm crazy allow me to explain. From what I understand the map maker CANNOT calculate for Z-Axis don't believe me look at the maps in KotorTool none of them have and Z differences. Sorry to be the one to shoot this down.


Current WIP: Learning to mod Kotor
supreme kotor is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 06-05-2013, 11:08 PM   #19
newbiemodder
Gentleman Modder
 
newbiemodder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Chicago
Posts: 703
Veteran Modder 
Don't stop! Please! I find using the module editor very helpful. Would be a huge benefit if could implement additional maps. As far as the Z-coord, not a big deal. U can get that from the whereami band as just input the data into the git file created by the module editor. Utc's will automatically bounce to the walkmesh without a proper z-coord.

Keep going!


Who's more foolish, the fool or the fool that follows?

Just exactly what is a head-piece to the Staff of Ra?

http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?t=206819

http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?t=206541

http://www.lucasforums.com/showthrea...t=newbiemodder
newbiemodder is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 06-06-2013, 01:21 PM   #20
Darth Sapiens
Rookie
 
Darth Sapiens's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 106
Current Game: tslrcm
Quote:
Originally Posted by newbiemodder View Post
Don't stop! Please! I find using the module editor very helpful. Would be a huge benefit if could implement additional maps. As far as the Z-coord, not a big deal. U can get that from the whereami band as just input the data into the git file created by the module editor. Utc's will automatically bounce to the walkmesh without a proper z-coord.

Keep going!
oh i plan to keep going

the missing z coordinate in the editor, is probably stored in the bfd under the map's header, I think I know what one of those values are
the arbitrary z coordinate possibly.
my hypothesis: the editor has the ability to use/generate horizontal (xy) coordinates but inserts the arbitrary (constant) z coordinate along with them.

and though we might not have the z coordinate automatically, what would be amazing is that we can now create our own flat-ish modules and use them in the module editor, bonus imho. now i'm sidetracked from my other mods *again* lol i'll see what my research comes up with on this.


Darth Sapiens is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 06-06-2013, 01:33 PM   #21
Fair Strides 2
Witty Programmer
 
Fair Strides 2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Oregon, United States
Posts: 522
Current Game: Master of Orion 2
Helpful! 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Sapiens View Post
oh i plan to keep going

the missing z coordinate in the editor, is probably stored in the bfd under the map's header, I think I know what one of those values are
the arbitrary z coordinate possibly.
my hypothesis: the editor has the ability to use/generate horizontal (xy) coordinates but inserts the arbitrary (constant) z coordinate along with them.

and though we might not have the z coordinate automatically, what would be amazing is that we can now create our own flat-ish modules and use them in the module editor, bonus imho. now i'm sidetracked from my other mods *again* lol i'll see what my research comes up with on this.
When you're done, could you perhaps send me the research and findings? I might be able to use them in a project of mine.


All of my mods are available on Deadlystream.

Always remember modders: "Quality= Effort*Time"

KSE 3.3.4 is LIVE!!! Check it out here.

12/13/13 -- Fixed KSE 3.3.4 bugs. Please check the above link.
Fair Strides 2 is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 06-06-2013, 02:15 PM   #22
supreme kotor
Junior Member
 
supreme kotor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: I'm lost.
Posts: 324
Current Game: Modding.. Wait is that a game?
Again I hate to break it to you but when making the KotorTool maps you put in 1 Z-Cord and all of the templates are spawned there. Do to fail safes with the map editor it will not automatically correct the Z-cords it will simply not spawn that template. From what I have read (not to say you couldent do it) Fred Tetra couldent figure out the Z cords. Good luck with that .

As far as the flat maps go: you will need a VERY talented 3d modeler as there are many simingly random z changes.


Current WIP: Learning to mod Kotor
supreme kotor is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 06-06-2013, 04:06 PM   #23
Darth Sapiens
Rookie
 
Darth Sapiens's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 106
Current Game: tslrcm
ok so i have done some research today, i have found i can move around the map entries in the bfd, i also have found out they contain a sort of offset for displaying where things are in the view port, for reference here is a ansi of the bfd
Show spoiler


my assumption is that the pattern:
MapName.LXMul.LYMul.SXMul.SYMul.LXOff.LYOff.SXOff. SYOff is used throughout
like
Code:
MapName.LXMul.LYMul.SXMul.SYMul.LXOff.LYOff.SXOff.SYOff
m02aa  .26   .93  .26   .58   .12  .47  .12  .54
so mapname is obvious, lxMul lymul sxmul symul, not so obvous other than x&y refer to their prospective axis, and l probably means either lower or left, no clue what S means. LXOff.LYOff.SXOff.SYOff are likely offsets for displaying the .map in the window.


Darth Sapiens is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 06-06-2013, 10:02 PM   #24
Fair Strides 2
Witty Programmer
 
Fair Strides 2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Oregon, United States
Posts: 522
Current Game: Master of Orion 2
Helpful! 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Sapiens View Post
here is a ansi of the bfd
So is this ANSI C, ANSI text, or what? Which type of ANSI is it? I tried to search google for "ANSI" and didn't get much help...


All of my mods are available on Deadlystream.

Always remember modders: "Quality= Effort*Time"

KSE 3.3.4 is LIVE!!! Check it out here.

12/13/13 -- Fixed KSE 3.3.4 bugs. Please check the above link.
Fair Strides 2 is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 06-06-2013, 11:23 PM   #25
Darth Sapiens
Rookie
 
Darth Sapiens's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 106
Current Game: tslrcm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fair Strides 2 View Post
So is this ANSI C, ANSI text, or what? Which type of ANSI is it? I tried to search google for "ANSI" and didn't get much help...
it says ansi in the hex editor, its just a wqy to view the data as oposed to say hex or binary ts like using the ansi view of ktools hex editor.i


Darth Sapiens is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 06-07-2013, 09:21 AM   #26
harIII
Veteran
 
harIII's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 978
Helpful! 
I'm not sure if this is helpful to you Sapiens but just so you know the Z coordinate is completely "ignorable". I'm not sure why but when it comes to NPCs they automatically jump to the right coordinate. If you entered 5435459411568785612300897 as the number for the z coordinate and the actual value is 5, the npc will jump to 5 and not be floating in the sky. However it doesn't work with any other object I'm afraid.
harIII is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 06-07-2013, 01:57 PM   #27
Fair Strides 2
Witty Programmer
 
Fair Strides 2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Oregon, United States
Posts: 522
Current Game: Master of Orion 2
Helpful! 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Sapiens View Post
it says ansi in the hex editor, its just a wqy to view the data as oposed to say hex or binary ts like using the ansi view of ktools hex editor.i
If I were to guess, I'd say it's the ANSI escape code.


All of my mods are available on Deadlystream.

Always remember modders: "Quality= Effort*Time"

KSE 3.3.4 is LIVE!!! Check it out here.

12/13/13 -- Fixed KSE 3.3.4 bugs. Please check the above link.
Fair Strides 2 is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Post a new thread. Add a reply to this thread. Indicate all threads in this forum as read. Subscribe to this forum. RSS feed: this forum RSS feed: all forums
Go Back   LucasForums > Network > Knights of the Old Republic > Editing / Modding > Holowan Laboratories > Making kotor tool maps

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:01 PM.

LFNetwork, LLC ©2002-2011 - All rights reserved.
Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.