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Old 10-08-2001, 08:10 PM   #1
Agen
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Question Conc Rifle to be included in jk2?

THis might have been discussed earlier but i'm pretty bored of reading now.... so do u think that the concussion rifle from jk1 should be put in jk2? The conc was probably the main thing that unbalanced it but created alot of strategies and me being a gunner myself u got into habbits of when u shoudl use it and i realised it isn't bad as i thought! Take For instance the repeater, if u had a good shot and not much lag u almost had an equal chance of getting beat if u weren't hardcore as in "hRR".
Say what u want here and i think in jk1 u couldn't play both the saber and the conc in the same game, mostly impossible or classed as a kamikazze attack.
Kappesh!

[ October 08, 2001: Message edited by: Agen_Terminator ]
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Old 10-08-2001, 11:48 PM   #2
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I never really liked the concussion rifle, can't really put my finger on it though. I hope they wont inculde it.


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Old 10-09-2001, 12:17 AM   #3
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This topic was discussed a while ago, but for the record, I would rather have something new besides the Concussion Rifle.

In this month's PC Gamer they say one of the new weapons is a Rocket Launcher, hopefully the conc's replacement
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Old 10-09-2001, 12:40 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally posted by SlowbieOne:
In this month's PC Gamer they say one of the new weapons is a Rocket Launcher, hopefully the conc's replacement
Please tell me you're joking.

If it's true about the RL, I have to say I'm disappointed. I wanted to see some great new energy weapons, like some of those in Elite Force (great game, BTW), not some ancient (and very tired) RL. The Rail Detonator in JK was bad enough...and I only ever used that on AT-STs.

The last thing I'd want to see is JK2 come more in line with the Quake series.

Bring back the conc...all is forgiven.
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Old 10-09-2001, 02:42 AM   #5
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No joke Stormhammer, I'm reading the caption right now:

"Weapons like the Rocket Launcher, Repeater, Sniper Bowcaster, and Flechette will make these duels more hectic than an Ewok ambush on Endor."

Maybe the term "Rocket Launcher" is a broad term and they have a more Star-Warsy name for it.

I also wouldn't expect it to shoot actual rockets, but something more along the lines of the Star Wars universe, like you said a form of energy or such.

Then again they did make the Rail Detonator which was a form of rocket i guess, so it's a definate possibility.

But yes I agree I hope it's not just a variation of a Quake 3 rocket launcher.

Whatever it is like I have total confidence that Raven will put it to good use. They have been doing a great job so far.

Also, now we know which weapon will feature the scope - The Sniper Bowcaster. Could there be more like it? For that matter would we need another.

I'll say it would be nice to be able to zoom in with all guns like in Star Trek: Elite Force, but I would be happy either way.

Maybe now we can actually put that bad boy bowcaster to work!


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Old 10-09-2001, 03:16 AM   #6
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I agree that the weapon is overly powerful and too readily available to 'common' threat characters in later levels.

Maybe if it were fixed mounted, restricted to boss creatures or greatly slowed all user movement rates I could understand. That way there would be a penalty of predictability for the encounter modes.

As for the 'rocket launcher', there is something on one of the EP.2 sites that claims to be a clip from the script or 'storyboards' in which Mace Windu is dueling in some arena and uses The Force to deflect an incoming rocket attack from one of the Fett type mercenary suits.

_I'm all for that!!_:-)

OTOH, I do like the concussion rifles ability to get 'horseshoe and atom bomb' hits around corners and as a general housecleaner aid that tossed grenades don't work well over distances and weird angles on.

To balance that against the Jedi players vulnerability is to consider three factors:

1. It doesn't effect others with presumeably less shielding than you do.

TWO _good_ (full on) hits with a concussion or rocket weapon are required to kill a fairly agile lizard carrying the same.

Versus often less than that for yourself if you are below 100 on your shield gauge and of course an /incredible/ wallop to shield strength even if you are in the 150-200 area.

SOLUTION: Rechargeable Shields. (argggh but it works...;-)

Another 'goodie type' to add variety to standard recharges, perhaps hidden in special treasure troves on only a few levels.

Subject to damage or destruction when hit at low power so that you occasionally have to find new ones or at least 'repair components' (h'yeeeer little droidy!:-).

2. No real ability to 'duck'.
You either forget you have a jump option, simply can't get to the key fast enough or are in a confined area where the weapon splash is overwhelming and a leap is a guarantee of a 'concussion' of a different sort.

SOLUTION: Auto-Evade (Enter/Exit Fight) key that is BIG, easy to reach, and drilled into our fight discipline as a means of suddenly changing the Jedi player location vs. aimpoint planes. Even when just walking into a new room.

Completely automatic-safe and without worry about banging your head (vertical or horizontal shunts) as long as there is /any/ space available to switch too.

SOLUTION 2: Valid Precognition. Walk into disaster with foresight and whose fault is it? You could enhance the difficulty based on a Force Persuasion MP use, requiring deliberate 'activation' as an individual Force Power and/or by making Future-Vision a difficult to ID precise species/weapon/bearing ability that only improved with experience.

SOLUTION 3: Adjust the conventional leaping skills so that you don't go up or come down as hard and can change vector (Somersault onto catwalks etc.) without broken arches or necks.

3. Minimal Ability To Deflect.
My idea was that the weapon IS in fact an 'air rifle' with some kind of compacted energy field sucking up a globe of air into a tight mass and then releasing it on contact with impact point.

It certainly looks like a cometary tornado coming at you rather than a 'bolt' of energy.

SOLUTION: Give the Jedi an ability to leach apart or predetonate the kinetite mass, at range, using the Force Push or equivalent..

SOLUTION2: Allow full deflection at the cost of being thrown back a bit by the force of impact. Depending on skill you either void the blast into a distant target (back on the shooter being the optimum...;-) or, as a novice, into a nearby object (ceiling/floor/wall) so that the damage is at least -nominally reduced-.

Say by half.

SOLUTION3: As with the dumb grenade throwers, restrict, heavily, the ability of the weapon to be used in tight quarters. Probably by making the AI characters able to have access to (blastech pistol etc.) 'personal weapon' alternatives.

I /hate it/ when enemies that are not dead will use a hi-power weapon on you just for the hell of it. And then groan with damage taken from their own stupidity.

When combined with a heavy barrel and large overall size factor, this alone might preclude for instance sharp vertically inclined sniping. I know I had a heck of a time with the Fueling Station multifloor tower level for instance.

Damn lizards.

SOLUTION4: Proactive Takeaway. As you get 'older and wiser', your tolerance for BS should go _down_ so that you don't /wait/ for someone to draw a weapon on you but simply snap all weapons to the floor as soon as you walk in the door.

Or, in the case of fighting-suit/flying droid smash the entire 'weapons system' into the nearest flat-hard object.

_With Prejudicial Vigour_.

This could come at a significant Force Drain penalty when activated against multiple users but it is clearly an effective if not the /only way/ to deal with an enemy that 'sees you', in numbers, using weapons you cannot effectively block, before you can choose to bypass the engagement.

SOLUTION5: Quicker access to Force Protect or it's equivalent.

On the opposite side of the opfor balance, if the gun really is something like a micro-FAE projector, truly armored targets (not Imps but say gun turrets, walkers, and other _heavy metallic_ or shielded vehicles and weapons platforms) should be nearly immune from damage in the same way they wouldn't be bothered by a loud firecracker or thunder.

In this case, you might be required to attack say _the aiming optics_ or equivalent (soft) guidance sensors of the system to knock it out.

The 'cameras' in MOTS were nearly useless because they didn't do the one thing they should have: call up large mobile contingents of Imps. But the idea of 'sniping' a gun turret that looks like it came off a battleship with a personal blaster is just silly. That could change if you had to -carefully- scan walls and ceilings to find and destroy all possible gun-laying sensors.


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Old 10-09-2001, 04:37 PM   #7
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Well how about this.. if the ocnc is replaced by rocket launcher or equivalent then to give the people more of a chance when u get hit with it gives u more mana so u can use force protection OR fight back.... i think that sounds like a chance for life when ur approached by a madman!
what do u think?
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Old 10-09-2001, 06:04 PM   #8
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Not a bad idea and i feel the conc has a place in JK2


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Old 10-09-2001, 06:50 PM   #9
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As do i!
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Old 10-09-2001, 07:16 PM   #10
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the bowcastor, despite what PC Gamer stated, will *NOT* have a sniper scope

a member of jk2's development team from raven came here and corrected pc gamer on that.


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Old 10-09-2001, 08:03 PM   #11
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Where did Raven correct PC Gamer?? I didn't think the Bowcaster would ahve a scope anyway because it's only a bowcaster +i wouldn't rely on the uk version of PC Gamer as PC Zone is better in the uk and gives u more information and it's usually correct compared 2 PCG anyway HiHo hiho it's off to work we go (damn it!)

[ October 09, 2001: Message edited by: Agen_Terminator ]
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Old 10-10-2001, 02:04 AM   #12
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Sorry, my mistake. I missed the correction.
I wonder what they have planned then.
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Old 10-10-2001, 03:17 AM   #13
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rockets and and other similar weapons are a very big part of star wars!
dont say that its not 'star warsy' because it is
i mean... look at the torpedoes and missiles that the ships always use, if lasers were so much better than they would'nt have missiles and torpedoes
the Missile Boat only has 1 laser cannon but can hold 80 missiles!
so rockets would be pretty good and would be quite 'star warsy'
plus... they affect a large radius
sooo sit on that and rotate


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Old 10-10-2001, 03:26 AM   #14
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Yeah but Darth Davo, i think ppl are talking about rockets as in the rail detonator
and rockets like the rl in quake 3

and if they include rocket launchers then we will have ppl start rocket jumping and that definatly aint star wars
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Old 10-10-2001, 05:38 AM   #15
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Unless you carry an x-wing in your pocket


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Old 10-10-2001, 11:35 AM   #16
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At least the conc rifle felt like a different weapon to all the other FPS games about. With a rocket launcher and this new flechette (nail gun) JKO is starting to sound more like a Quake TC than anything else.
ANd based on peoples comments about the Galactic Battlegrounds demo...that isn't what people want. They want something a bit new and inventive.

I was hoping they would take some inspiration from the movies and come up with sonething original.

The carbonite gun could be good if they did it right (more like Duke Nukem). ANd some sort of web-gun, or tangling cable (a la boba fett) would be hard to implement...but at least it would be new.

One of those long, thin looking rifles would be cool too (sand people/aurra sing style).

PErsonally i reckon some sort of variation on Ion Cannons would be cool. A weapon that wipes out shields, but doesn't hurt at all (except droids). MAybe it would disable all the target's weapons for a number of seconds. (And of course it would have cool arcing electricity effects...)

I would have thought a bowcaster would work quite well with a sniper scope.

Just my thoughts...
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Old 10-10-2001, 02:10 PM   #17
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I read somewhere that the bryar will be the scoped one, finally giving some use to it...

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Old 10-10-2001, 03:22 PM   #18
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Quote:
At least the conc rifle felt like a different weapon to all the other FPS games about. With a rocket launcher and this new flechette (nail gun) JKO is starting to sound more like a Quake TC than anything else.
ANd based on peoples comments about the Galactic Battlegrounds demo...that isn't what people want. They want something a bit new and inventive.
But we havent even heard about half the weapons! Let alone have much info on the ones we do know about.

Patience...
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Old 10-10-2001, 03:51 PM   #19
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Yeh we're talking about Rls and stuff when Raven haven't actually told us officially. Maybe we should wait and c and keep giving raven ideas and instead of having a straight forward RL then they could have some sort of variation like the RD was a variation.
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Old 10-10-2001, 07:33 PM   #20
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What about the rocket launcher ionly available in MP when u do good skills if jk2 can detect it and some cheesy kills it would let u get to the RL but then again it's unrealistic.


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Old 10-10-2001, 10:09 PM   #21
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Hopefully I can cut that rocket launcher in half with my lightsaber when playing online...

[ October 10, 2001: Message edited by: Lord_FinnSon ]


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Old 10-10-2001, 10:23 PM   #22
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byrar and stormy do not have sniper scopes: http://www.jediknightii.net/cgi-bin/...0&t=000540&p=4


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Old 10-11-2001, 02:49 AM   #23
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You know, it really doesn't have to be a 'scope' to help you out.

A laser dot projector or even a flashlight looks a lot like a scope and especially if you _sight down the barrel_ gives a pretty good degree of accuracy. It also makes more sense than any 'field light' on your head or whatever (gun in front, shadowed rather than haloed behind, narrow cone of visible-nasty rather than hurricane-lamp globality).

In the above LINK, they mention Han Solo using a flechette gun and a laser ranger would also help with setting that weapons burst-distance, automatically 'laze n blaze'.

In the Xim adventures of that same series, Han uses the macroscope on his blastech pistol to scan an airfield for sentry's so perhaps that's the 'zoom' option but IMO you really need to have a dedicated (long barrel) weapon rather than any SMG/Carbine or pistol to do long range work.

I would have liked a 'silent twang' Bowcaster option (blaster or crossbow double barrels for different situations) but if that's not an option then a BIG Storm Trooper rifle with a bipod front end like Chewie used in the Ep.4 prison scene or even that longbarrel microbolt/bullet type gun as you see the Tuskens employ in Ep.1 would be appreciated (hated the idea of them having crossbow-caster as well as their being native to other than Tatooine but what can you do...).


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Old 10-11-2001, 04:02 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kurt:
<STRONG>
I would have liked a 'silent twang' Bowcaster option (blaster or crossbow double barrels for different situations) but if that's not an option then a BIG Storm Trooper rifle with a bipod front end like Chewie used in the Ep.4 prison scene or even that longbarrel microbolt/bullet type gun as you see the Tuskens employ in Ep.1 would be appreciated (hated the idea of them having crossbow-caster as well as their being native to other than Tatooine but what can you do...).


Kurt Plummer</STRONG>

first thing Kurt has written that i have understood, but i agree. Those tusken rifles looked cool. So did the big Stormie rifles... and of the existing weapons the Bowcaster seems the best suited to a sniper scope
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Old 10-11-2001, 05:43 PM   #25
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Yeah The Bowcaster should


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Old 10-12-2001, 04:01 PM   #26
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If they really wanna make the bowcaster good they should have 2 different types 1 with silent twang and the other just oridanry
And also i wouldk like to c realistic placing of the weapons unliek weapons lying on the ground for no reason at all and no spinning.
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Old 10-13-2001, 10:26 PM   #27
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i reckon the cocussion rifle sound got annoying after a while


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Old 10-14-2001, 12:00 AM   #28
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i loved the sound of the Conc Rifle but the best gun sound i heard is from the Ts auto-sniper rifle from CS.


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