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Old 08-14-2001, 02:28 PM   #1
Ari-Ben Kenobi
 
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Post Stamina factor for JK2?

Hey,

Even though we have seen nothing like it, would not it be cool if they had a stamina factor for jk2? What I'm talking about is that after doing something for a long time you eventually get slower and then have to stop and rest, and it could also affect your force powers. Example, you run for a minute on end, then lets say your stamina factor is down to 50, you start to slow down due to stamina and eventually you must stop and "rest" for a few seconds or take health damage. Or lets say your in a sabre duel, saying your going at a medium pace, your stamina factor is going down at a slow rate. However, the lower the factor the more your force powers suffer. So, you exhange a blow or two, and then you use force lighting, no prob. But then lets say a few minutes later you have been in a constant duel and you decide to launch a furious assualt to try to end the match quickly. It doesn't work, and now your stamina factor is down to 10. Your actions are slower now and you have to wait and take it slow for it to come back up, and not only that, but you can't use more advanced force powers like lighting till your character is back in shape. What I'm sayin is how about something that moniters how much heavy physical activity your character does (i.e. using force powers, sabre dueling, running, FURIOUS sabre dueling) and when you go on to long, you begin to suffer penalties, you move slower, your force powers begin to drop, blah blah blah, this would actually make sense because it would keep lightsabre duels ALOT more cinematic. As we can clearly see in the movies, jedi vs sith duels are very draining, as the famed Obi-Wan Kenobi could not call upon force speed because he was winded from dueling with maul+his fall+ his force jump and he couldn't catch up to Jinn. This would help keep force powers down during long sabre duels, after all, lets say the JK2 sabre system turns out to be good as everyone hopes it to be, you duel for a few minutes with your friend, and all of a sudden you strike a critical blow and he is almost dead, yet for some reason, he still attacks you at lightning speed and eletricutes you in the middle of a duel! Would not it make more sense to have a factor that would slow down your actions/restrict use of certain force powers after taking physical damage or strenuous physical activity? I personally think it would be cool, I hope you raven people who prowl around here take this into consideration. What do you think? Also, too bad they ain't including that thing where you speak into a headphone and your character says that in the game, *sigh*

Ari-Ben

[ August 18, 2001: Message edited by: ZeroXcape ]


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Old 08-14-2001, 03:03 PM   #2
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No.


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Old 08-14-2001, 04:49 PM   #3
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uhh, Outlaws had one, and it was ok, kinda nice SP feature, involved stragaty a little... but it was a pain in the arse in MP! i mean, it was really annoing, at least to me... besides, jedi dont suffer from fatuge hardly ever... the NF gunners would have to worry the most...

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Old 08-14-2001, 05:26 PM   #4
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this is a bit of a no go for me too.

While on first glance I thought this was a good idea too much realism can damage a game...

maybe someone can make it as a mod or something, but to have it as a standard part of the game would be a pain in the ass.


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Old 08-14-2001, 05:45 PM   #5
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I like this idea.
Jedi's can be exhausted (Duel of the Fates).

So it is more SW-Universe-like
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Old 08-14-2001, 06:42 PM   #6
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No, I wouldn't recommend a stamina gage either. It would be better to be able to move at normal running speed constantly, but have a cap on Force Speed.

For instance, it would be better to cap how frequently you can use Force Speed. Place a 'cooldown' period of several seconds between Force Speed uses, so that you don't have a constant stream of Force speed. Or, just make Force Speed more expensive in terms of Force Mana use.


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Old 08-14-2001, 10:50 PM   #7
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I like the idea of physical damage limiting your movements instead of simply taking more damage off an arbitrary counter.

Limiting speed is like ignoring a big part of JK heritage. Should just come up with reasons for not doing it and integrate it as an overall strategy. Go read my post on the saber thread.

If they decide to make characters limp like in dues ex, they should have it be an option instead of a mandatory condition of play.

Its kind of a dangerous decision because it's obviously a lot of work to create all the new animations for players having a hard time moving, and it could easily unbalance the game a ton.

What i'd do is have a threshold for area immobility and for limited movement. Should be fairly high, and somewhat difficult to achieve. Meaning it's a rare occurance that u get the damage of someones area that low, usually it runs all the way out and they die.

Say if u assigned each area of the body a meter with 100 health, say if that area reached 5-10 health they'd lose the ability to use it effectively or simply die.

That way it would add a lot of variation to player deaths, without screwing up the game too much. Meaning, it'd be like

"kid yer dead, now u get a few minutes to die to add to both yer fun and the fun of the person who shot u"

You wouldn't be meant to survive in anyway once the threshold had been crossed, only create custom death animations =P

That'd elim balancing issuses and allow it to run like a normal fps with really interesting death anims.


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Old 08-14-2001, 11:06 PM   #8
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I think the majority of your ideas would be good in a mod like 'Personalites' or something, but I think they would be an instant turn-off for the majority of hardcore DMers, if you were to implement them in standard DM. You have to put a cap on realism when dealing with a storyline that is based both on Science Fiction and Fantasy. The SW universe was never meant to be too realistic, it's meant to be fantasy. If you make it too realistic, it will take the mystical elements out. I'm not saying that they aren't good ideas, I just think that when dealing with standard DM, they definitely need to put a cap on the realism. People enjoy SW as an escape from RL. If we make it to realistic, it may eventually be less of an escape. The things that you suggested, would be excellent in a game such as CounterStrike, but probably not in a SW game, especially if it's a SW game consisting of Jedi/Sith, who are suppose to have magnificent/mysterious powers.
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Old 08-14-2001, 11:23 PM   #9
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Raven if you are reading this, DON'T EVEN THINK ABOUT IT! It would slow down gameplay soooooo much it's not even funny.
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Old 08-14-2001, 11:51 PM   #10
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hum, i dunno, it'd be a lil like rune where u get yer arm whacked off and have to run away and find a chicken leg, but more so and without the expectation of you being able to get away.

Be like saying "please squirm a lil bit for ammusement while yer finished off".

Whatchu could do is take whatever u thought was a fair ammount of health for yer player to have, then *add* the threshold onto it, so that it didn't affect the original game balance u came up with.

Actually it would make a good modifier, and i think i prefaced the whole post with the idea that it should be an *option* and not mandatory.

Lucky

[ August 14, 2001: Message edited by: Lucky ]


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Old 08-15-2001, 12:03 AM   #11
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no.
this is an example of taking realism too far..
(psst jedi dont get knackered, thats one of their advantages, the force flows in and gives em strength.. well thats how I read ep5s running about sceen, in tpm they were just meditating..)

it works ok in some games.. but I really really would hate it in jk2.
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Old 08-15-2001, 06:21 PM   #12
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I think we should have a stamina factor in JK2. Sounds really cool! Great idea, Ari-Ben.

[ August 15, 2001: Message edited by: Qui-GONE Jinn ]
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Old 08-15-2001, 06:29 PM   #13
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No, I dont think that would be fun, although it would be realistic. I dont know how the actual creation of a game goes interms of time frames and what not but dont you think that pretty much all the gameplay features have been worked out by now? I mean this is kinda late in the game to be implimenting major gameplay changes such as a stamina component. I may be wrong though.


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Old 08-15-2001, 07:20 PM   #14
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It drastically prevents you dang BUNNY HOPPING gunnying guys from bouncing all over the place..I'd rather have STAMINA than a dang jumping contest


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Old 08-15-2001, 07:29 PM   #15
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Hopefully, improved saber duels will make the bunny hopping technique useless.

As to the question at hand. More realistic does not mean more fun. For example, there is a stamina meter in the HL mod Day of Defeat. Although it was interesting at first, it grew old quite quickly and got annoying. In dod_caen, you only have one jump as a infantry trooper to make it on top of a tank, then one more to get to the place you need to drop the bomb. This is hard, especially with lag. I hope they remove it in beta 2.

I am not hoping for a JK clone, but it would be wise in my opinion to leave this feature out.
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Old 08-15-2001, 07:32 PM   #16
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well i guess thats true but it would be a shame not to implement some of the features from SP into MP...like the screenie where kyle's choping up those storm troopers...


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Old 08-15-2001, 09:13 PM   #17
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as a lover of trick jumps, I hate the bloomin thing.. its ok for mods for hl.. but as a part of the main game not many things would turn me of the game faster..
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Old 08-16-2001, 06:11 PM   #18
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What would be nice, would be a force power indicator that worked like the old Outlaws stamina indicator. As you used force power for running, lightning, whatever, the indicator counted down or the meter moved lower. As you weren't using any force power, it climbed back up slowly. That would also work like the shields in the X-Wing sims. It's easy to get a feel for and they could always include a short force boost power up that kept your force level full for a period of time.
That way nobody would be force running and jumping all the time. It would add more strategy, which is sorely needed in these games so it's not always some frenzied shoot-em'up. It would make using force power a little easier to manage also.
It appears that may be what Raven is working on anyway.



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Old 08-16-2001, 06:19 PM   #19
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I think the stamina thing would be good as a replacement for the orange blob mana indicator. I like Gonk's idea about the meter; only if the meter was detailed enough, though. I don't want the 'three different pix to show what level' system, I want a meter that changes when it goes from 100 to 99, not only showing change when it goes from 100 to 75.

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Old 08-16-2001, 09:53 PM   #20
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jks force manas like that.. but the meter isnt good..
I would like to see mana usage become better..
If I am honest, F4 jk was my favourite game type, one of its best features was the fact mana was actually really limited, you ran out more, you needed to control those little boosts and things far more then in ff.. it made it more fun.. its only disadvantage being pull whores.
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Old 08-17-2001, 06:59 AM   #21
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it sounds like a good idea, but i don't wanna waste precious game time just standing around waiting for my stamina to charge up again, i find that [B]BORING![\B]




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Old 08-17-2001, 10:33 AM   #22
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I would have to disagree.
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Old 08-17-2001, 10:34 AM   #23
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damn red x.
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Old 08-17-2001, 02:24 PM   #24
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You wouldn't have to wait around for force power to charge up. You'd still be able to move around and fire. Your force powers would just be limited while the meter is down. For example; if you're one who likes to force speed all over the place, you could until the force meter was empty. Then as soon as it climbed up a little again you could force run again but only for the short time it took to run out again. If you waited longer to force speed you could run for more time before you went back to regular walking.
That would add some interesting tactics to fighting. You couldn't force lightning all over somebody and then force speed away all the time. You'd have to plan your attacks so the other guy doesn't make better use of his force powers than you. Perhaps you could block and saber fight without using force power so you could hold your own when you're rebuilding your force power, but you'd still be at a disadvantage while you recharged because you be in a defensive mode and couldn't be very offensive. It seems to me that would be very similar to the actual movie scenarios. It may also prevent the "who can shoot faster and bigger" scenario. I like the concept.
For regular walking or even regular running and fighting, there should be no stamina limits whatsoever.



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Old 08-17-2001, 03:59 PM   #25
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Posted by Gonk Droid
Quote:
That would add some interesting tactics to fighting. You couldn't force lightning all over somebody and then force speed away all the time.
By simply making sure force powers cost mana equal to their usefulness there is no need for this system. If you look at the E3 video mana recharges pretty fast, if it stayed that way you could just make the best powers cost high amounts, that way the cool down period is actually waiting for your mana to recharge.

Quote:
It may also prevent the "who can shoot faster and bigger" scenario.
Quote:
For regular walking or even regular running and fighting, there should be no stamina limits whatsoever.
These statements are counter-productive. If it doesnt effect normal running or fighting, how is it going to stop gunners with powerful weapons. If stamina was to be impremented, I'd suggest it doesnt effect force powers at all as that is what mana is for in the first place. It was just poorly done in JK where you never ran out, this will surley be rectified by Raven.

I dont want it to be done at all, but if it was surely it would only affect running speed (non force). In no way should it effect force powers or shooting speed.


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Old 08-17-2001, 05:03 PM   #26
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The only reason it charged up so quick was because it was for the demo, They didn't want to wait for ages to show off the next force power..

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Old 08-17-2001, 05:16 PM   #27
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Thats why I said if it stays that way, they can still ajust the mana cost of X force power to match the recharge rate of the actual mana.


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