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Old 10-28-2001, 09:14 AM   #1
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Post new doom technology in JO?

Was just reading an article on coverage of quakecon (yea kinda get things late here in NZ) in australian PCP magazine #66, and it had a little side article on JO. This is the last line.. and i quote "Further improvements will arrive once raven begins integrating facets of the new doom technology". Does this mean what im hoping it means.. if so, im guessin it might cause some delays.. but damm the game should look mighty fine... what do you guys think ..?


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Old 10-28-2001, 09:54 AM   #2
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Facets of the new Doom technology?
What exactly does the new Doom game engine have that q3 engine doesn't?
Besides higher amounts of polygons, and that awesome lighting we've seen in the Doom 3 vids. Anyone know?


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Old 10-28-2001, 10:40 AM   #3
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What d'you mean besides the new lighting effects? Per-pixel lighting operations are possibly the single most important breakthrough in gaming engine technology since the advent of 3d acceleration. Those clips from DOOM III just show the beginning of what is possible. A game powered by the DOOM III engine will have graphics in a completely different league to those in a Q3 engine game.

In addition, however, DOOM III will also have support for other new technologies such as true Dolby 5.1 surround sound. I'd also bet on Mr Carmack using some of the GeForce 3's other cool technologies such as bump mapping, vertex blending, HSR and higher order surfaces.

The main problem with this is that, understandably, id want their own game to be the first to use the new engine, and they won't be releasing it until late next year at the earliest. This would put Jedi Knight somewhere into early 2003. My guess is that what that magazine means is simply that Raven (as usual) will be closely in contact with id during the JK2 development process and will put in new technology where the existing Q3 code allows.

[ October 28, 2001: Message edited by: ed_silvergun ]


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Old 10-28-2001, 02:10 PM   #4
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Originally posted by ed_silvergun:
"In addition, however, DOOM III will also have support for other new technologies such as true Dolby 5.1 surround sound."

That is strange that DOOM III will support Dolby 5.1; how many gamers actually have their computers set up to a 5.1 compatible system? Sure, its great for movies and music when you have a home theater set up but for gaming on the computer??? Though it would be cool to hear an enemy sneaking up from behind you and breathing over your shoulder...


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Old 10-28-2001, 02:31 PM   #5
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I have the 5.1 Theater system set up. And believe me, its incredible. Even my friends who play on it say. Its especially good for games like Unreal Tournament because you can hear people sneaking up behind you. You can tell exactly where everyone are. Games that are designed specifically for the 5.1 system are even better.

Of course, nothing will rival the Unreal II engine.


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Old 10-28-2001, 04:05 PM   #6
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It sounds good to me, although 'facets' could mean anything. I guess we'll have to wait and see.

I wonder if the new DOOM engine will be modular, because that is one of the key strengths of the Unreal engine, allowing it to be constantly changed and updated. In that respect, it is truly an evolutionary engine...so I agree with Rave that other games are going to have difficulty matching it's functionality.

Incidentally, I too have a 5.1 set-up, and I agree with Rave that it truly enhances the gameplay for those games that support surround sound.
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Old 10-28-2001, 05:42 PM   #7
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I doubt there will be any Doom3 technology in there.

I'm not too familiar with all of the details about what is new with the Unreal II tech, but what little I've heard about Doom3....well, let's just say it sounds like it's a pain in the ar$e to develop for. I mean, just understand that bump maps, specular passes, etc. do not build themselves. Those extra graphical elements of textures have to be generated somehow. Now if you consider that doing hi-res textures for current games is causing artists to have to scramble....think what all of the new requirements will cause...heh heh.

Yeah, it will look better, but those games are going to take a whole lot longer to develop in order to take full advantage of those features. And at the rate that graphical improvements keep coming, it will be very hard to keep up.

As it stands, vertex shaders, register combiners and per-pixel operations are not exactly new...and I really don't see that many current games doing anything appreciable with them.
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Old 10-28-2001, 06:12 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally posted by SkUnkY_OuNcE:
<STRONG>Was just reading an article on coverage of quakecon (yea kinda get things late here in NZ) in australian PCP magazine #66, and it had a little side article on JO.(</STRONG>
PCP? i'm in australia and never heard of that mag. do u mean PCPP? if so, how about october issue deme disc? they put half-life patch 1107 instead of 1108!

[ October 28, 2001: Message edited by: StephenG ]


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Old 10-28-2001, 06:40 PM   #9
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Quote:
Was just reading an article on coverage of quakecon (yea kinda get things late here in NZ) in australian PCP magazine #66, and it had a little side article on JO. This is the last line.. and i quote "Further improvements will arrive once raven begins integrating facets of the new doom technology".
You sure this was in the article about JO? Reason I ask, Raven is doing Quake 4 which will likely use the Doom 3 engine, that line could easily apply to that if taken out of context.

If the passage holds true than I concur with Ed- my guess would also be that "Raven (as usual) will be closely in contact with id during the JK2 development process and will put in new technology where the existing Q3 code allows."

-Off Topic-

Another 5.1 gamer here, btw, been so for over a year. All gamers really need at this point is a good 4.1 setup, however. 4.1 also seems to be slowly but surely becoming the typical gamer setup.

Also, what games actually are designed to use Dolby (Digital) 5.1 at this time? There should be a big difference between playing a game that's sound is designed to play with DD 5.1, and just forcing sound to play out the Center Channel. For example, I can set my 5.1 speakers to DD 5.1 while playing games and I can get game sound out my center channel- but that doesn't mean that's supposed to be how the game is heard.

DooM III engine vs. Unreal II engine? Hmmm. I wouldn't count Carmack out. He's been the dominant force behind 3d engines for the last few years. Arguably, if there is one thing his games should be known for, it isn't gameplay, it's the engines.
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Old 10-28-2001, 06:54 PM   #10
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if this guy is talking about PCPP mag then i've got it. the oct issues says ii'l quote

"Further improvements will arrive once Raven begins integrating facets of the new Doom technology"

i dont know if what PCPP is saying is right, i'm just quoting.


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Old 10-28-2001, 09:15 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally posted by Rancor:
<STRONG>Yeah, it will look better, but those games are going to take a whole lot longer to develop in order to take full advantage of those features. And at the rate that graphical improvements keep coming, it will be very hard to keep up.</STRONG>
That's what you'd have thought, wouldn't you, but, as usual (and as you'd expect for the world's greatest games engine programmer) The Carmack is one step ahead of us. Id have created an entirely new editor for use with the DOOM III engine, which no longer requires mappers to compile maps in order to look at lighting, etc. The editor is now capable of doing all this in real time while you work on your level. This is designed to make it easier for modders and mappers and other developers to create environments for the new engine. Carmack has stated that this new editor is "more of a placement tool" than previous editors such as Radiant, and should as such be much easier to use.


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Old 10-28-2001, 10:05 PM   #12
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Yeah, I'd heard that it would offer a preview that was much closer to the end result. Too little too late though...Unreal had an editor that had an excellent real-time preview of lights when it came out. That was what, 3-4 years ago?

Typical of many excellent programmers that are technically very competent, when it comes to making something that is robust and user friendly ( for a developer or mod maker )....I'm not so sure that certain programming "gods" have a clue at all.

Anyway, in some ways I agree that they may plan to make it easier on the mod makers, but I suspect that the technology will require people to have access to extra ( potentially expensive )tools not included with the mod "kit"...and that may make it more prohibitive in the long run.

I guess taking a "wait-and-see" approach is probably appropriate until we have more info.

[ October 28, 2001: Message edited by: Rancor ]
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Old 10-29-2001, 01:03 AM   #13
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would be interesting I don't know if it'd be worth the wait though.



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Old 10-29-2001, 10:33 PM   #14
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Yes it was PCPP i was meaning.. i took powerplay to be one word.. oh well, as i said we get stuff late here in nz, the issue of PCPP with the quakecon review, just came out here a few days ago.. so i guess we're an issue behind.. but sureley they wouldnt say something like this without backing.. maybe the next issue clears it up??


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Old 10-30-2001, 10:18 PM   #15
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Mis-informed people often say things that they think have backing, but really don't.

Anyway, it would be cool if they could utilize the new technology, but it doesn't make sense for ID to allow the "goods" to leak into a product that will ship before the first game using the Doom3 tech will.

Finally, the Doom3 technology isn't cheap. You can't run it well on the average hardware out there today. So, I wouldn't much care to have to do a *major* upgrade just to play JK2.
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