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Old 08-29-2001, 01:06 AM   #1
DeathBoLT
 
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Post Jedi verse Jedi, Sabers Only

How will saber fighting be different from what we saw in Jedi Knight? If blocking is to be better, will saber duels focus on outmanevuevering your opponent to strike at his vunerable back side? Will the objective in saber duels be to disable your opponents blocking temporarily by stunning him(maybe with a strong force atttack or successeful physical assault)?

This is all assuming the game doesn't become totally focused on force use and gun control like we saw in JK-- which I certainly hope JK2 isn't a mere clone of.

If blocking is as easy to do as the AI manages to pull off, the saber wielder will have a near impenetrable shield in front of him via blocking, thus making it neccessary to try and outmanevuer him to strike at a relatively vunerable backside, or require us to execute a attack(that would have to be fairly simple to deflect) that would temporarily stun the enemy and lower the blocking ability of the opponent. I wouldn't complain if they did it this way and would actually enjoy it if they handeled it right.

Your guy's thoughts? How do you all think saber vs. saber duels should be handeled.


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Old 08-29-2001, 01:44 AM   #2
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i say it we'll be using the same tactics, but it'll be a lot better on dedicated servers

also, in the preveiw by the japenese chick, at the end where you see kyle fighting another jedi... was that mp, there were three there, have havent checked it out fully or read any prevweiws that might tell me about, so mainly im asking ya'll

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Old 08-29-2001, 01:49 AM   #3
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Sounds like a possible idea dude, i thought the main thing in jk was to as ya mention get beghind your opponent/out menouvre them, and also i big part of winning a saber fight was timing.. timing your swing to hit after they thave swung adn are vulnerable while keeping them in front of you to block them.. i hope they dont change that part of it too much, maybe a kick or something will stun you opponent, but you need to be close to try it, and it is a risky move.. but if ya pull it off it pays off.. do you guys know what i mean??


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Old 08-29-2001, 04:10 AM   #4
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They still haven't said whethere or not there will be a block button for sabers.
Personally I would rather have a block button to use rather than depend on the AI blocking for me. But I think it would only work if they made it an instantaeous action. That way, duels can rely on mainly on reflexes and counterattacks.

Here's how I would I would handle it:
Have a block button, primary and secondary swing, and evade key.

I think they should make different combinations of primary and secondary swings and directions to handle the combos.
For instance:
Primary, Secondary, Primary... and all different variations up to four or five moves in succession. If they do it right and make enough different types of saber attacks, there could be tons of ways to fight a duel, instead of JK's few ways.

If there is no block button, I don't see how there will be any strategy involved. How will you strike a hit if it auto blocks, not to mention the saber clashes. The idea of having to sneak around the backside is very JK-ish. I want something JKO-ish. I want to be able to stand my ground, and block when I want, not when the AI says it's OK. Am I alone here? Who else thinks auto-blocking is the wrong way to go?
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Old 08-29-2001, 07:10 AM   #5
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I was trying to think of a way manual blockng could work. I first of all thought of the Star Wars trilogy arcade. Although the sabre fighting wasnt perfect (I kept pushing up for down thinking I was still in the x-wing) I thought something similar might work for JKO.

After thinking some more though, lag could cause problems for this, its bad enough turning to face someone with bad lag, without turning and trying to swing in the right direction to block.

ANy thoughts on this?
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Old 08-29-2001, 09:02 AM   #6
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i agree with manual blocking nd someone with lag = easy kills for them,and too many buttons makes me have to think faster and use more of my keyboard,but as long as the game is tight ill be cool with it.


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Old 08-29-2001, 10:25 AM   #7
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I agree with the last couple of posts.. a block button would be very difficult to use, specially with lag to consider.. i thought the auto block in jk was pretty cool, to get a hit ya had to trick your opponent into swinging and then after they have done a big swing they are wide open to be hit, since they cant auto block when the saber is out to the side.. this way you still needed skill to get the kill, but it wasnt too easy.. maybe they could implement a block button for those who want it and auto for those who want auto.. maybe an option in gameplay menu.. then those with auto can perfect that if they want adn those who like auto can use that..?? adn this way there is no dependency on sneaking up behind or gettin behind an opponent. umm does that make sense..?


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Old 08-29-2001, 11:06 AM   #8
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i hope that u could train in the jedi academy on yavin 4 and also explore the whole academy


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Old 08-29-2001, 11:16 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by SkUnkY_OuNcE:
<STRONG>maybe an option in gameplay menu.. then those with auto can perfect that if they want adn those who like auto can use that..?? adn this way there is no dependency on sneaking up behind or gettin behind an opponent. umm does that make sense..? </STRONG>
I think I follow and I have someting that might make it better. if they can make the manual blocking more effective than auto but not unfairly so, there is incentive for people to learn it. For those who cant for whatever reason do manual blocking there is the auto but less effective method.
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Old 08-29-2001, 12:38 PM   #10
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Having an option for auto-block, or setting it up as a key you want is a great idea. The best of both worlds.

And as far as having a block button affect lag, it won't matter. If you are lagging, you won't have a place in the JK2 online community, plain and simple. And by lagging i mean you have a 56k modem or less.

[ August 29, 2001: Message edited by: SlowbieOne ]
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Old 08-29-2001, 01:10 PM   #11
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56k or less? I think that's the majority of internet users, but oh well...

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Old 08-29-2001, 03:19 PM   #12
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Yes, it's sad but true. But as times change so do a lot of people's internet connections.
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Old 08-29-2001, 06:18 PM   #13
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*sighs* I have DSL, but can't even use it since I am in the middle of a move. oh well.
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Old 08-30-2001, 12:17 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by mostly harmless:
<STRONG>I was trying to think of a way manual blockng could work. I first of all thought of the Star Wars trilogy arcade. Although the sabre fighting wasnt perfect (I kept pushing up for down thinking I was still in the x-wing) I thought something similar might work for JKO.

After thinking some more though, lag could cause problems for this, its bad enough turning to face someone with bad lag, without turning and trying to swing in the right direction to block.

ANy thoughts on this?</STRONG>

Errm It wouldnt be very laggy, your talking about the jk netcode, it WOULD lag like hell on jk's crappy netcode. But not q3's, man why does everyone expect jk2 to have the same crappy netcode as jk? Jeez should be in some faq.

Another Example!

Quote:
I agree with the last couple of posts.. a block button would be very difficult to use, specially with lag to consider..
UGH!!! Why and i say this again, why does everyone think jk2's netcode will suck, like jk's!!? As ive said before, with the new q3 patch i get low low pings when playing the urban terror mod for q3, ( not just urban terror either :P ) less big buldgy red line and "connection error" symbol at the top left corner, really does make diffrence! So stop worrying!

Quote:
i thought the auto block in jk was pretty cool, to get a hit ya had to trick your opponent into swinging and then after they have done a big swing they are wide open to be hit, since they cant auto block when the saber is out to the side.. this way you still needed skill to get the kill, but it wasnt too easy..
Dude, it WAS very very very very very easy and lame, looked retarded, after awhile it was like " i know your waiting for me to double swing ". Sure the strategy worked, (if lag didnt blow it) but it looked cheap, boring, and VERY VERY easy to master.

I say Jk2's system should rely on hitting the other guys saber so hard he looses it ( they've confirmed sabers being hit outta hands ) so then the other jedi would have to use the force (actually put the force to use and not as another weapon like in Jk) to reterieve it, but not just that, it should take reflexes, and strategy! Im thinking the saber could be lost from being punched or kicked, loosing your saber would be pretty much like a stun, but a stun you could counter using your reflexes,some evasion moves, and the force!( not just stand there and look at pretty stars, like most stuns )

[ August 29, 2001: Message edited by: Tap[RR] ]
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Old 08-30-2001, 01:10 AM   #15
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Hey Tap, I think you are confusing the statement of being able to hit a "Flying Saber" out of the air, rather than being able to hit the saber out of the opponents hands.

If you have read this though, where? Sorry if I'm wrong.

I also agree with you on lag.

"This isn't Kansas anymore."

JK netcode sucked royally, there was lag even on LAN games, I don't care how many people tell me there was not. JK2 will not consist of lag, giving saber duels the ability to be interesting and much more strategy based.

[ August 29, 2001: Message edited by: SlowbieOne ]
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Old 08-30-2001, 04:36 AM   #16
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Yeah some of the previews have mentioned saber being able to be lost. (probally not being able to be force pulled, but hit out, with a barage of attacks) Errm in the video the dark jedi clearly loses his/her saber,steps up retrieves it and reignites it. It also explains why the dark jedi was force pulling her/his saber back into his/her hand in the pic.

[ August 30, 2001: Message edited by: Tap[RR] ]
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Old 08-30-2001, 06:05 AM   #17
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Well I dont people were saying netcode will suck, it uses the QIII engine so netcode is already proven. In Sabre fights though, I would have thought theres a lot less time to react.
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Old 08-30-2001, 04:12 PM   #18
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Q3 netcode is good; no question on that...

on a previous section of this topic(the part about auto-blocking vs. manual):

Possibly an advantage to manual blocking will be back-blocking, but also slows u down(moving, not swinging) considerably? 'cause I heard some people talking about how back-blocking was cool, but would be unfair to gunners. This wd(if implemented correctly) please every1, and wd also give a reason to coerce people into manual, but wd give the extremely casual players a reason to just skip it('cause of the speed change). Also, if ur running in a guns & sabers game, u dont want to slow down w/ manual blocking, therefore leaving u open to attack there. Maybe, back-blocking wd have a lower success rate than front blocking.

any ideas?

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Old 08-30-2001, 06:53 PM   #19
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I think allowing the users both options, is the best way to go, when considering auto vs manual blocking. I would prefer there to be manual blocking, with an hot key. One of the most overlooked problems, imho, for jk saber duels was the lack of defensive options, as you incorporated offensive stratagies. Allot of saber players, like my self, would just hold down primary one, as a defensive and offensive stratagey, as you could be swinging and be moving all the time, making your opponets less likely to chrage in. The reason players do, and did this, was straffing and circling were important when facing more skilled opponets. Since your player was always at a angle, or diagnal to oppents in your view, the auto blocking funciton was very unperdictable, especailly when you play with players, or you use, " high" senstive mouse settings, causing, waprping, etc. This made timing z swings( which is really the only time you were vulnerable, if your holding down primary and moving quickly.)very important. This caused players who were in duels to be more spaced out, players moving in U shape patterns, tring to get in and out after oppents swings, and on the side an behind players. To me, saber fights should be more like sword fights, were blocking is as important to winning, as offensive attacks. Not only do i think there should be manual blocking, but directional blocking as well. Menaing you could block to the left, right, high and low. This way you dont have to be perfectly square with your opponent to block attacks. There should be more emphaisis on saber swings in JKO that will enable you to aim, high, low, and middle, and then counter blocks for the same. This way if you try and swing for someones head, they can counter block. If you swing high, and then say for somones leg, and they only block high, they will then take a shot in the leg...and so on..My ideas may be out of wack a little, but anything to improve the invlovemnt of defence, will help getting saber dules more like sword fights( i hate to use that reference). This will help making saber fights closer in combat, etc, which will be even better do the fact that JKO will not suffer from the lag set backs that jk did....


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Old 08-30-2001, 06:55 PM   #20
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I think manual blocking will be too difficult to do. The saber swings fast and with lag added in, it will be very off key. Just as long as Outcast resembles Saber Battle X (the best mod), I'll be happy.


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Old 08-30-2001, 07:08 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally posted by Tre Lightshadow:
<STRONG>I think manual blocking will be too difficult to do. The saber swings fast and with lag added in, it will be very off key. Just as long as Outcast resembles Saber Battle X (the best mod), I'll be happy.</STRONG>
Surely you dont want it like it was in JK!!! Kyle missed 70% of the time and was really annoying. I think there should be an option so people who want totall control like me can have auto block OFF!!!!!!


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Old 08-30-2001, 09:04 PM   #22
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This excerpt comes from Lucasarts page:

Expanded and enhanced use of the lightsaber features a slew of attack and DEFENSE moves.

A slew? How many different ways could you block? I like the sound of that.

Maybe they have something up their sleeves, but I'm still hoping for a block button(or at least an option), and different ways to block.

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Old 08-31-2001, 12:33 AM   #23
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I belive that the best way would be to make the left click attack, and right click block. attacking while hitting foward would produce one kind of slash while hitting back and slash produces another kind ect., the same system with the blocking. this would work best with location based dmg sould a slash to the body or head would kill with one hit, while a slash in the arm would make ur slash wilder and blockind less effective, and a slash in the legs would make ya slower.


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Old 08-31-2001, 04:04 AM   #24
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Oh look, another fraud.


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Old 08-31-2001, 12:58 PM   #25
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what?!?! fruad, huh where??? oh... [action]points up[/action]

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Old 08-31-2001, 04:26 PM   #26
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RAVEN, that system sounds pretty good. As long as the blocking actually worked pretty well. That way, there would be some actual tactics in saber dueling. You have to constantly evaluate the risk of attacking versus defending.

With manual blocking, if you have to commit to a block, you're not attacking of course. This means you could be supressed by an agressive attacker. If the blocking isn't pretty effective, it's not worth requiring the gamer to actually press a button to block.

How about a block move that is also somewhat agressive, such as a block that pushes the enemy weapon out of the way, but still allows you to hit the enemy. (This is a basic foil move, not sure if it is standard to saber dueling).

I doubt that the gameplay system will be so complex that you can actually do high/low/inside/outside line attacks and parries. (Although SOF2 tech supports per-pixel collision.)

Also, how would we do combination type attacks if our right mouse button is committed to defensive moves? Maybe through a combination of keys?


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Old 08-31-2001, 07:48 PM   #27
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As I said a few posts back Wilhuf, Lucasarts says they will have a slew of defense moves so I wouldn't doubt if they have something like an aggressive block.

I think left mouse and right mouse should be saber attacks and block should be the middle mouse button. It worked very well in Rune.
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Old 09-05-2001, 03:06 PM   #28
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On a branching topic, since I was a huge LSvsLS fan: the duel.

There was the one map in JK (the platform where you fight Maw) where I would always try to initiate Tournaments, 2 guys would go at it one on one while the otheres watched (and hekled). The winner took on the next guy.

My only claim to fame was that I introduced 'bowing', ie shut down your LS, look down then look back up, turing on the LS. A minor thing to some, but important differance between JK Duelists and Quake Fragmasters.
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Old 09-05-2001, 04:23 PM   #29
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whoa whoa whoa, people. i came in late on this one, but i've gotta mention one thing regarding the manual vs. automatic blocking and whether to have an option for it in game settings. first off, having a block key would not make anything more laggy during MP. second off (and i can't believe no one's mentioned this or heard of it) there is an existing mod for mysteries of the sith that HAS manual blocking in it, plus 10 attack moves (inlcuding the original primary and secondary attacks from JK...it might be more, but i can only think of 10 right now). this mod also had an option to turn the automatic blocking on or off in the game settings screen. another neat feature of this mod was that blocking took mana/force power to perform. to me, this makes sense. in all the SW books, whenever someone is blocking blaster fire with a lightsaber, it's usually described as letting go and letting the force guide the blocker's hands (much like luke had to do on the millenium falcon to block the little floating blaster droid). a 'normal' person would not be able to block blaster shots with a lightsaber because blocking with a saber necessitates using the force. this is why lightsabers are generally only effective offensive and defensive weapons in the hands of someone who is very force sensitive. also, when fighting a (dark) jedi who has a saber, it would take the force to be able to block and foresee where their attack was going to come from, the same way with blaster shots. anyway, i thought that making the block take up some mana was a really cool idea, and was much more true to the books/movies. it just surprises me that this mod has been out for at least 2 years and no one hear has heard of it or played it evidently. it already HAS everything your talking about, plus more. the mod is called the art of the lightsaber, and modifies strictly saber attacks/moves. you should all give it a try (if you have mysteries of the sith) and then post your opinions about it having tried a similar system. i can say for myself that i love the manual block system. it really makes you have to be aware of timing and tactics, and requires much more skill to remain alive. duals using the art of the lightsaber mod are hardly EVER strafing and circling. the manual block and all the attack moves and evasion moves contributes to this.

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Old 09-05-2001, 04:28 PM   #30
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I don't like the thought of using mana to block. So what if you run out of mana? You can't block? Pretty lame if you ask me. After all, this is a game. It would slow down the pace.
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Old 09-05-2001, 04:36 PM   #31
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yeah, it would make it so you coulnd't block. it would take a lot of blocking to do that (it only took a little mana), but that's the point: it makes you think about tactics. you can't just sit there and block all day, and if you use force run, seeing, persuasion all at the same time, you won't have any left for blocking. to me, that makes a lot of sense. in the movies/books, you don't see (dark) jedi running around using 4 force powers at once and blocking blaster bolts. in 'visions of the future', luke is barely able to block blaster shots from several guards who are directly in front of him because the guards had ysalamiri strapped on their backs. that little area of not being able to sense the force made luke barely able to block the shots. and while he was doing that, it took all of his concentration. there was no way he could have used force persausion, or jump, or whatever. anyway, it would make it so you couldn't block...that just means you've got to play smarter and think more. like i said, try out the mod THEN post your opinions.
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Old 09-05-2001, 07:25 PM   #32
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I've tried the mod, but it has nothing to do with Jedi Outcast. This is a completely different engine and game.

What if you want to play no force sabers?
Then how do u block?

What you are talking about in the books has nothing to do with saber duels. It has to do with reflecting blaster bolts.

Since when do you need force to swing and block with the saber? JK had auto saber blocking, and didn't consume any force, the way it should be.
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Old 09-05-2001, 07:25 PM   #33
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Whats the name of the mod, and I presume its at Massassi???....I'll give it a try, but I havent played a mod yet that I played for more that a day..


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Old 09-05-2001, 09:12 PM   #34
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Hopefully blocking in NF sabers doesn't become an issue; why? Because in JK2, there ought not be a division in the form of NF/FF sabers, NF/FF guns. I'd personally like to see the division in form of certain personalities or gun/saberist, etc.

The reason no force sabers play even started because of the way the force was in Jedi Knight. You really couldn't saber duel simply because focusing on force use became the key to winning. People wanting to go at it with sabers had to goto NF because you can't survive with the saber as your main weapon with destructions flying around. Even going lighty wasn't really saber dueling because you were still running around at mach 4 due to force speed.

I'm hoping JK2 balances the saber and force abilties so that NF sabers isn't really neccessary because the force would add to the saber dueling experience - not dominate it.

btw please post a link where I could download this Art of the Lightsaber mod for MotS.


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Old 09-05-2001, 10:07 PM   #35
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Art of the Lightsaber? That mod (to me) seems slow paced, and some of the moves get complicated (like holding down Force saber move or whatever and doing all the other stuff.) get Saber Battle X for Jedi Knight, that mod is sweet, you can do new moves and you also have new evasive attacks. It rules. Oh ya, it's at Massassi.


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Old 09-05-2001, 10:16 PM   #36
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I would rather see joers with no devision..
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Old 09-06-2001, 02:58 PM   #37
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SLOWBIE:

1) I've tried the mod, but it has nothing to do with Jedi Outcast. This is a completely different engine and game.

I'm well aware that art of the lightsaber is a mod for MOTS, which is not JK2: Outcast. As such, I am also well aware that this is a completely different game and engine. My only point in bringing up the AOTL mod was because there was some discussion regarding manual blocking. I was only trying to inform people that there was a mod for MOTS that already incorporated such a system, and suggested that others try it and see what they thought, rather than just thinking about it. If I pointed out a mod for MOTS that's been around and I've played for 2 years and I'm posting on a group that is dedicated to JK2, don't you think I *know* that JK/MOTS and JK2 are different games? Think about it.

2) What if you want to play no force sabers?
Then how do u block?

If you want to play NF sabers, then you set up a character whose only force power is force saber fighting (the force power you use to block, do the side evasive rolls, and stab with the saber), while those you are playing with do the same. Additionally, force saber throw can be used since it is a force power, but essentially still a saber fighting maneuver. If you had played the mod for a longer amount of time rather than just trying it, you might understand. Then again, maybe you wouldn't. From your comments (e.g. "JK had auto saber blocking, and didn't consume any force, the way it should be.") it appears as though you are one of the JK/MOTS players who would just circle strafe all day and just want to constantly attack with all weapons and unlimited ammo and without having to think about tactics and mana-management (the uber-jedi). That gets boring really quick. Any moron can do that. That takes very little skill and gets boring very quickly. I think you'd need to play against some people who have played AOTL for a while to know (e.g. the Masters of the Lightsaber clan, who are clan that only plays with the AOTL mod). They don't run around using destruction all the time or grip, but rather try to make duels look cinematic.

3) What you are talking about in the books has nothing to do with saber duels. It has to do with reflecting blaster bolts.

No, using the force to block blaster shots happens, AS WELL AS using the force to block sabers. For instance, a Jedi is fighting a non-force sensitive person (i.e. 'normal'). The Jedi would not need to use the force because the 'normal' person probably has no training with a saber type weapon. No problem there. However, whenever a (dark) Jedi is fighting someone else who has a saber, odds are that the other person has some training with sabers and is force sensitive. A lot of times in such duels, the force-sensitive fighters are using the force to anticipate the other's moves and attacks. Thus, blocking an attack would 'cost' some mana/force power since the fighter is using the force to anticipate the attack. This happened when Luke fought Guri, the Yuuzhon Vong, etc. You must have forgotten those parts of the books if you had read them. So, I agree that a force-sensitive vs. a non-force-sensitive where both had sabers would not take mana/force power to block attacks. However, it is common for force-sensitives to utilize the force to augment their fighting while facing another force sensitive (like predicting attacks and augmenting one's offense/defense).

4) Since when do you need force to swing and block with the saber? JK had auto saber blocking, and didn't consume any force, the way it should be.

Well, since when a Jedi is blocking blaster bolts or is fighting another force-sensitve....that's when you need the force to block/attack. I just got done explaining that. Why should the blocking not cost mana? What you really mean when you say that it's "the way it should be", is it's the way YOU want it to be. As I said above, a Jedi (or anyone else for that matter) does not need the force to swing a saber. Anyone idiot can pick up a saber and swing it (Han cutting open the Tauntaun to keep Luke warm in ESB). However, it takes a force-sensitive person to block blaster bolts and to stand a chance against another force-sensitve in a saber duel. Think about what you are saying. If you don't want manual blocking because you want the game to be easier, just say so.

Irimi-Ai
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Old 09-06-2001, 03:10 PM   #38
Irimi-Ai
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
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TRE LIGHTSHADOW:

The AOTL mod is anything BUT slow paced. You should try dueling some members from the Masters of the Lightsaber clan I mentioned in the previous post. I've dueled with a couple of them, and it is FAST, and it's not just strafing. There are many more attacks and moves...it is fast, believe me. Most of the moves are not complicated. The only ones you need to hold down the force saber fighting button are stab, evasive roll right, evasive roll left, and manual blocking (if you have it turned on). Only one attack, two evasions, and one defense use it. Not too complicated. It is, however, more complicated than the original JK system, which is the point. It takes more tactical thinking, skill, timing, and mana-management. For these reason, I find it to be much more fun and challenging. The original JK/MOTS gets so boring and repetitive. I also have the SBX mod, both for JK and for MOTS (there are differences to those who might be considering downloading them). In fact, I beta-tested the original MOTS version. I still use both the beta and the final release. Some things in the beta I like better, and some things in the final release I like better. Anyway, SBX is a great mod. I know you really like the SBX mod...that's twice now that you've mentioned it However, for challenge and variety, AOTL is better in my opinion.

Irimi-Ai
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Old 09-06-2001, 03:13 PM   #39
Irimi-Ai
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
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Here's the link to all those who want to try the AOTL mod:
http://www.outpostd34.com/sandcrawler/saber/

Here's a list of features taken from their website, posted here so others can see if they want to even bother:

Heavy Slashes:
Spinning slash
Obi-Wan combo (torso slash-twirl-overhead)
Overhead strike
Upward slice (damages attackers in front and behind you)
Twirling slash (direction-controlled: turn right - clockwise, turn left - counter clockwise)
Heavy torso swing (direction-controlled)
Crouching Z-swipe


*Miscellaneous Moves:
Force Jump (new) - pressing FJ in mid-air makes you flip 1; when falling, holding down FJ will reduce fall damage according to rank
Force Saber Fighting - allows enhanced saber tactics and moves, like saber stab
Roll sideways (strafe and tap Force SF), an excellent evasive move
New controllable blocking system - hold Force SF and hit the fire button in order to block attacks
Taunt - flip the saber in your hand and yell a taunt to your opponent


*Other Stuff:
18 new Jedi skins, each with their own saber handle
10 of them are fully robed: pull off their hoods, and throw off their robes!
5-6 new deathmatch levels
New animations for most Force powers (like Heal)
Hold your saber handle with the blade off, allows quick surprise strikes
Switch autoblock on\off through the gameplay menu (replaces lightsaber auto-cam)

Irimi-Ai
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Old 09-06-2001, 03:16 PM   #40
Irimi-Ai
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 9
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Opps...sorry. I forgot the quick attacks. I knew there were more than that!!

*Quick Swings
Standing swing combo (left-right-heavy chop)
Quick diagonal-downward slash combo (right-left-right)
Quick diagonal-upward slash combo (right-left)
Quick torso swing (direction-controlled)
Roll & slash

Irimi-Ai
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