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Old 10-11-2001, 01:54 PM   #1
StormHammer
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Question Respawning Enemies?

There were a couple of levels in the original JK where some enemies respawned, i.e., you shot down some stormies, and some others arrived to take their place.

Do you think this feature should be included in JK2?

I have to say that I liked the fact that JK did not focus on body counts, but objectives. So in those terms, I think it might be a good idea to have a few more levels with respawning enemies.

As long as it makes sense, of course. I mean, if you've just cleared out all the rooms in a section and then enemies start coming out of those doors, it would be a bit silly.

But if you had like a vehicle (air or land-based) arrive, and a load more enemies come tumbling out, that would make sense - especially if the alert has been raised.

Anyone else agree/disagree with this?
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Old 10-11-2001, 03:09 PM   #2
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Hmmm, agree.

As long as it's realistic.

Plus, who doesn't wanna kill more Stormies?


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Old 10-11-2001, 06:18 PM   #3
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I have something to add thats a bit of a twist on respawning. I wonder if they will have alarms that the troopers can pull if they get away from you after being spotted. Therefore sending a squad to "check it out."

Another way spawning would make more sense is if there was a level with an all out invasion of stormtroopers.

The parts in JK where they sent another trooper out the door to kill you felt kinda lame. I mean, Why wouldn't they just send ALL the troopers at once to assure victory over the Jedi?

But I feel it can be used effectively in a multitude of ways.
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Old 10-11-2001, 06:58 PM   #4
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You guys are right...

Raven ne a nice idea or "Effect" to respawn Tropers at the right time...

I only hope; Becouse Raven is a Profi in 3D games..
It will be good enough.


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Old 10-11-2001, 07:06 PM   #5
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agreed with stormhammer,

as long as it doesn't go all "goldeneye" on me and enemies just appear from nowhere. In some instances once an area has been cleared that should be it.

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Old 10-11-2001, 08:26 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally posted by SlowbieOne:
I have something to add thats a bit of a twist on respawning. I wonder if they will have alarms that the troopers can pull if they get away from you after being spotted. Therefore sending a squad to "check it out."
Yes, that was what I had in mind. It has been done before...even DF had a few instances where if you were spotted a Stormie would run to get help. In Quake II, you had grunts hitting alarm switches if you were not quick enough, and activating security devices, or more enemies arrived.

Quote:
Another way spawning would make more sense is if there was a level with an all out invasion of stormtroopers.
My vivid imagination can picture that in detail. You're in an isolated installation, and you have to help protect the civilians. AT-AT walkers coming from one direction, TIE-bombers buzzing overhead, a Lambda-class shuttle lands in the distance, and troop-carriers settle down closer to the walls, disgorging hundreds of Stormies...

Sort of like the first level of MotS, but on a grander scale.

Quote:
The parts in JK where they sent another trooper out the door to kill you felt kinda lame. I mean, Why wouldn't they just send ALL the troopers at once to assure victory over the Jedi?
Agreed.

Quote:
Originally posted by wardz:
In some instances once an area has been cleared that should be it.
Also agreed. Any respawning should fit the dynamics/location of the level.
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Old 10-13-2001, 02:48 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by SlowbieOne:
<STRONG>Another way spawning would make more sense is if there was a level with an all out invasion of stormtroopers.
</STRONG>
that would be cool, as long as you couldn't just stand there and hack them to pieces one at a time. Even for a jedi a total inasion by stormtroopers should be a bit of a problem.

i remember a cool level in a doom Aliens-TC where aliens started dropping from the cieling and you had to fight a rearguard action out of the level with limited ammo and closing blast doors behind you to stop all the aliens following you.

That would be cool... a bit like the holding action on Hoth...
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Old 10-14-2001, 04:22 AM   #8
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Agreed,

1. Place troops in known-encounter locations where they can be counted on to 'congregate' (moooooo) in some numbers: squad rooms, bunk rooms, mess halls, training ranges etc. (like in EP.4SE where Han runs around the corner and we at last get to SEE all the troops). Give us a fast-scrolling MAP screen like Ben uses that shows not just outlines but labels for them so that we can plan routes (requires access to data terminals but could then be programmed into a picked up mapreader with inertial locator like in Doom).

2. Where a battlefield is dynamic, give us ESP so that we can KNOW we are about to run in to a 'whole bunch of somethings' (auto-spawn point proximity warning).

3. Give us REAL abilities to cut off the chase (and yes, they should chase us though in true military fashion it should be just fast enough to maintain intermittent contact if we throw thermal detonators to make them seek cover).

This might include disabling a door control panel.

Or using the Force to lift a Really Big Crate across a door frame (although a bunch of troops might actually be able to push this)
Or requesting a 'slicer' droid or remote package (like Bollux's little pal) to activate or disable select areas for a certain amount of time or total number of uses (another interesting doodad to find and pickup for _variety_).

Where the enemy succeeds in trapping you in a small area, they should NOT always come through a door but rather use SWAT type tactics to break open a wall, toss in smoke or incapacitant and then charge in from multiple (unexpected) bearings.

4. Lastly, an on-his-toes trooper might _not_ use an alarm to call more troops ('I'm dead before they get here').

It might be a gravity control to quadruple your weight or a tensor field to simply hold you still or an interlinked series of micro blaster turrets.

It doesn't have to be 'all military' either as the gravity field tactic pops up in a couple SW books where night clubs using freefall dance floors have Corporate Security thugs walk in and Our Heros stage an escape by flattening everyone.

Or A-Grav transit tube elevators in a building might be shut down to aid or prevent escape-reinforcement (part of a mission goal being to isolate or reenable a buildings access controls).


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Old 10-14-2001, 07:14 AM   #9
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I think they should make enemie respawns, in were stormies are patroling the area you just cleared, like MetalGearSolid2(And mgs1), were new troops would take the place of there fallen comrades. They could also add a backup thing to the enemy emotion (you know, being out gunned and so), were they call for backup (like mgs2), when needed. Say a storm trooper looses two comrades and finds hiself one on one with kyle, i'd like to see that storm trooper run or evade kyle's agressive manuevers and advancements in battle, and try to call for backup.(maybe hit a switch, or use a radio to call for back up, backup could be prevented by using the force to help you push the stormie down, or destroying the alarm button or radio)
Heh while that probally being too close to mgs2's gameplay, i just hope, they at least do something along the lines of mgs2's reinforcement system, doesnt have to be a copy of the reactions and movement of the reinforcement units in mgs2, but have reactions that are good, if not better than mgs2's, make it more unique and diffrent while adding alotta strategic action to the A.I.
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Old 10-14-2001, 07:18 AM   #10
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I remember a custom made game for Jedi Knight, it was called Dark Emperor: Last of the Jedi. In the second level, there was an invasion of stormtroopers. You had to kill all the troopers in your village, then more would come from the tomb tunnel. That was one case of respawning enemies.

But it would look why cooler if they did that with JO and if a few imperial craft were added in too.


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Old 10-14-2001, 04:34 PM   #11
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First level in MotS had a load of that, too. The transport would land, unload stormies, and then conveniently take off the second you approached the vicinity.

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Old 10-14-2001, 06:21 PM   #12
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Whenever I think of respawning enemies, I think GoldenEye 007 for N64. Bunker II. Beating that crap on 00 Agent mode was hard as hell, because Russians would just keep coming from everywhere.

If Raven could keep it realistic and make a good system for it, then that's fine.

If possible, I would like it to be a finite number of reinforcements. If someone hits the alarm, send some troops to investigate, but after you kill a squad or three, they stop coming.

As long as it isn't like Goldeneye, Bunker II. =)
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Old 10-14-2001, 10:18 PM   #13
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Some of previews have already confirmed that stormies are much smarter this time around: if they they realize you are a jedi, they run for cover or get help after which they come with bigger group againts you.

[ October 14, 2001: Message edited by: Lord_FinnSon ]


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Old 10-14-2001, 10:49 PM   #14
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Except in some isolated instances (where the player is meant to continue on rather than stand and fight) I think that continually respawning enemies (unless there's like an enemy generator, say a personel carrier that can be destroyed to stop the respawns) is a bad idea.

Take for example the skirmish mode in AvP.. not much fun, because it becomes repetative and boring after a minute or so. Or in games like SOF (so I've been told). I'd rather for the most part be rewarded for taking out all of the enemies, with having some time to catch my breath, etc. In multiplayer respawning enemies is just a way to avoid designing a cool objective based cooperative game (IMHO).

If used in moderation, it wouldn't be a bad thing, but I think that overall, it's pretty much unnecessary, unless it's part of some special mod or something if used creatively.

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Old 10-17-2001, 11:10 PM   #15
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Of course Raven could make infinitely respawning enemies like in a one instance in Rune where these Viking-zombies are sliding down to room, where you are and hacking them to dead just brings out more. This would make fighting againts stormies pure madness(at least for a jedi) in a situation, where you can easily be outnumbered, unless you come up with a solution that can stop them entering the room, like smashing up the controls of a heavy steel door which would give you enough time to escape, while stormies are welding it open(like in ANH).

[ October 17, 2001: Message edited by: Lord_FinnSon ]


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Old 10-18-2001, 01:58 PM   #16
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Well in DF it got annoying sometimes with the respawning enemies. I'd place IM Mines around an area where I know they'd come back. After returning to the area later, most of the mines were gone, but there were still stormies!
I like the idea of transports coming in an dropping off more troops. That's seems logical and fun. But in seperate Imperial installations, where it would simply seem unrealistic to have a neverending swarm of troopers, than there those should not have a respawning units.

Just as I write this, it occured to me. A cool level would be in a cloning facility, where the number of enemies would be enormous and your "supplier" (Rebels/Whoever) would provide you with lots of heavy weapons to take out the facility.


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