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Old 06-04-2001, 11:36 PM   #1
Silent_Thunder
 
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Post What MotS, and JK weapons would you like to see modified in JO?

Like the title says, what weapons did you find over powered, to weak, or just should be changed? How should they be implemented into Jedi Outcast?

I've always hated the seekers. They did the same damage as rail det.s did, but were sooooooo easy to use. If Raven puts them in the game, I hope they do about half the damage as rail detonators. That way, players who are skilled at aiming will have a reason to use them instead of seekers. And people who aren't as good with aiming will still have something to use.

The actual lasers of the blaster weapons (ie: bryar, ST rifle) should, IMO, travel at a much greater speed. That would make them alot more useful, especially against 'kangaroo' jedi .

In MotS multiplayer games, I always hated the carbon gun, that must be the cheapest weapon in the game, if it has to stay though, I hope they make a few modifications on it . Doors, boxs, and other objects should stop the little carbon particals from latching on to you. In MotS The carbon gun went through everything (including doors) and still froze everyone. So basiclly if you knew where someone is, you just have to fire for 2 seconds and you get an easy kill. Also, I think the actual 'things' that make you freeze should move alittle slower, so the player with the gun would need to use a little skill, and lead their target.

This is probably more of a bug then anythng else, but just incase, I'll say it anyway. The land mines in JK and MotS would explode if a player passed by them, even if the land mines were on the other side of the wall. Now for those (like myself ) who love to put landmines in strategic locations should have to worry about land mines exploding because a player happen to walk by them on the other side of the wall. Or, if the reason for that is because they're motion sensor, then allow players to drop the land mines, and turn off all the motion sensors. That way, it would explode through being stepped on .

Just a few ideas to make the weapons better .


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Old 06-04-2001, 11:41 PM   #2
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I'm all for weapons, Kyle is a mercenary after all. But a stronger focus on the saber and Force powers would be cool, especially considering that Kyle is now a Jedi...


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Old 06-04-2001, 11:52 PM   #3
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yeah, in single player I really hope weapons will have their uses. But I hope the light sabre will be the weapon of choice for most of the game later on.... But in multiplayer mode, I hope there is an equal focus on both guns, and saber use.


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Old 06-04-2001, 11:55 PM   #4
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I agree with most of your comments

The 2nd fire of the conc could be improved

Maybe the DT weapon coming back?, nah, It woudlnt work in MP, Itd be like the BFG or the redeemer

The mortar from DF was cool, but I dont know If itd work in MP
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Old 06-05-2001, 12:13 AM   #5
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Hmmm, maybe digl, but I think both the Dark Trooper weapon, and the Mortar could be included easily.

The Dark Trooper weapon (in 1st fire mode) would have the slowest projectile speed of any weapon, that way you'd be forced to lead your target (and that's a good thing, since we don't want it to be to easy to use). There would be some very, very small splash damage, that way it would only effect people right next to it (not like the conc). The damage would be about as strong as the rail det, or maybe alittle weaker. But the rate of fire would be much faster. The 2nd fire key could be very limited in ammunition. Maybe have about the blast radius of a conc. With, perhaps alot less damage. In Dark Forces the primary purpose of the secondary fire on the DT was for freezing your opponent, and softening them up. That way you could get some easy hits in with the 1st fire key. Maybe it could be the same in JO.

I really don't know how the mortar would work.... It would act alot like the thermal det. Maybe (since the mortar 'arcs' when it's fired) it would be useful for hitting enemies hiding behind crates that are too far away for the thermal detonator to hit it. Ofcourse it'd have to be weaker then the thermal det, and maybe have a slittily slower firing time.

Anyway, I'd love to see the DT weapon come back .


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Old 06-05-2001, 12:30 AM   #6
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I say have these weapons in the game
  • Blaster Rifle - same as JK
  • Thermal Detonator - same as JK
  • Fists - duh
  • Saber - double duh
  • Rail - same as JK, but no seekers
  • Crossbow - make it more bouncy
  • C Rifle - make it more balanced (smaller blast)
  • Dual Sabers - We can dream, cant we?
  • Carbo - just make it better....that's all

Notice....no mines. They suck. Period. And no, it isn't because I cant use them, it is because they are a waste of time, I see people lay down entire stacks of mines all over a level for 5 minutes, while everyone else is playing and having a good time. I can't possibly imagine how mines can be remotely fun.



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Old 06-05-2001, 12:46 AM   #7
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I assume you haven't played with mines on cargo ship then . Mines are really, really fun, especially when you put alot of them in some place players like to camp (ie; conc spawns, surges). They are also fun in elevators, or behind pillars when people run by .

I really hope the don't (assuming they do) lower the blast radius to the point of the rail det. If they did, then it would be inferior to the rail dets, and no one would use them. The rail dets do more damage and are faster. So the only thing the conc has going for it is larger blast radius, and more ammo.

It would be cool for the xbow to bounce around alittle more . maybe, both the 1st, and the 2nd keys could have a charging mode. That would be neat.


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Old 06-05-2001, 03:16 AM   #8
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I want them to save everything kwup said except keep the mines they are awesome,and if you were good you knew carbo needed much skill to use right.

"Save The Concussion Rifles!"

edited to fix picture

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Old 06-05-2001, 05:28 AM   #9
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I'd have to say I'm with Kwup. Mines are neither a Jedi's, nor a mercenary's weapon. A true frag is to be there at the time doing the killing!

Mines subtract from that experience, you die with no chance to save yourself or get revenge.

Boot the mines, they aren't a Jedi's weapon.


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Old 06-05-2001, 05:45 AM   #10
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as far as i can remember, neither is a stun prod


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Old 06-05-2001, 05:56 AM   #11
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True, but at least with a stun prod you have the courage to face your opponent!


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Old 06-05-2001, 08:21 AM   #12
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you are wrong, about the carbon gun shooting through objects. Here's how the carbonite gun works:

You have to keep a contant hit for 5 shots, if you miss at all it subracts from that total, so if you were to hit 4 pumps in a row then miss one, youd go back to 3 and then have to hit 2 in a row. If you stopped shooting, you automatically go back to 0.

The reason carb seemed to go through walls was because in order to make this gun work in mots, it had to be a local weapon cog and thus, the person freezing you was doing so on HIS pc not on yours, and once his pc said you were frozen, you were sent the info, and then frozen wherever you were. Because of the way this worked, If there was high latency in the game, you appeared to freeze through walls or over great distances, while in fact this was not happening.

Since JK2 is going to be server based and not peer-peer like mots/jk were... this problem would not exist with a carbonite gun in JK2.


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Old 06-05-2001, 08:40 AM   #13
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I can vouch for Cowb0y on how the carb works, most of the information comes from the carb cog itself out of the jkmres.goo.
as for weapons that i think should be included and force powers

1)Mines should stay they are useful if you arent a total newbie
2)Thermal Dets.. handy when out of ammo of other kinds or as a stand-a-lone if you can figure out the physics
3)st-rifle+scope... deadly if used in tangent with Force Seeing and the Map though with the q3 advanced engine and the probably level design which is common in most q3"ish" levels might not work as well as it did in MotS
4)conc and its "rail gun from Shadow Warrior" type projectile should stay.. secondary comes in handy in areas where you dont want to kill yourself and you have no time to switch weapons *not all of us play while having "always run toggled off" like some people*

further more i really dont care what some may call "a true jedi weapon" in multiplayer i hope there is a selection of personalities like there was for MotS. i know some my not like versitility or change but they need to get use to it.. guess thats why people in Jedi Knight still play the same 4 settings for the past 4 years.. fear of learning something new. when there are the same 4 settings + 4 more personality types to learn in mots. thank you for your time and i hope the Jedi Knight 2 creators actualy read this forum and take the suggestions seriously because these are the people that will be playing the game speaking.. that includes.. experienced players.. players that think they are experienced *cough Silent Thunder* and players that dont know a thing about the game but would like to put their input in as well.


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Old 06-05-2001, 11:09 AM   #14
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The MotS Zoom Scope; It should do 'regional damage'. You shoot a trooper in the head, instant death. You shoot a trooper in the leg, he should hop around, or fall. Not another 'instant death' like MotS. I love them sniper weapons....


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Old 06-05-2001, 11:21 AM   #15
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I would like
Bryar- much more powerful.. but slower ROTF sabre blocked mid-long range
ST- med rotf, close combat weapon can be blocked
sniper blaster, can be blocked.
bowcaster mid-short range blaster
blasters all do a ton of damage. more then any other weapon.. but can be blocked. ie sabrest beats st user, but a conk user beats a sabrest

Conky lower damage more push, cant be blocked
Rail dets, can be guided with throw, sticky rails are a *MUST*
Thermies, powerful, can be guided with force throw.

Sabre, can block all blasters.

Mines. a must.. mines are good for tactical play and really are easy to avoid if good.. make them more deadly tho.
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Old 06-05-2001, 01:00 PM   #16
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I would Like to See:
Bryar-Replaced by a Blastec dl44 (doubt that happen)
Strifle- same but not as ammo hungry
Scope-Sniper rifle is a sniper rifle
Thermals-bigger blast radius, one did take out a At-AT
Flashbombs-Same
Bowcaster-Tooken out replaced by a new weapon
RailDet-Tooken Out Replaced by a New weapon
Mines-Stay this weapon is fairly Unique
Con Rifle-Stay Faster rate of fire slighty smaller blast radius, secondary fire range increased alot
Carbo-SAme but freeze rate slower
Seeker weapon-Replaced by a Reedemer Style weapon
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Old 06-05-2001, 01:22 PM   #17
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Will be interesting to see if JKO's server architecture eliminates client-side weapon hacks in multiplayer.

[ June 05, 2001: Message edited by: Wilhuf ]


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Old 06-05-2001, 02:52 PM   #18
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---Bryar pistol:. This was a good basic weapon. I never knew where it came from, anyone? If it was to return I would like to see it do way more damage, it was good because it was accurate but did hardly any damage.
---Stormtrooper rifle: This was a good weapon basic weapon, it had a high fire rate but a low accuracy as it went everywhere. Well balanced and returning as one of the new screenshots show. I think the sniper mode from MoTS should return. You zoomed and that was what JK was missing, but yeah it does need to have regional damage. If that makes a return I’d like to see it in the form of another gun. Remember when the trooper stuns Princess leia in ANH, I’d like to see that as secondary fire on the stormtrooper rifle.
---Thermal detonator: This was a good weapon, if used correctly it could take out multiple SP opponents. Its problem was that the blast radius was way too small. When Leia (disguised) threatens to use one in Jabba’s main room everyone winces uneasily you get the impression that its really powerful, but in the game its usefulness is kind of negated by how small its blast radius actually is. If it is in JK2 I would like to see it beefed up.
---Bowcaster: Pretty much useless, if it comes back I would like it to shoot on energy “bolt” like a medieval crossbow, but you could hold down the button to charge it up for more damage.
---Repeater gun: One of my personal favorites, everyone likes the rail gun or conc rifle because the lightsaber could not block them, but if used correctly this was, IMHO, very useful. I hope this makes a return.
---Rail gun: The rocket launcher of JK. What can I say, its pretty cool. Great to use against that saber wielding Jedi.

Stormtrooper Sniper rifle: As I said above I would like to see a sniper type weapon in JK2. Remember in some shots from the trilogy you would see a stormie with a rifle that was like 2 or more meters, it should look like that because those guns were clearly different from standard rifles. They should do regional damage as someone else suggested. The zoom screen and sight need to look a hell of a lot better as well.


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Old 06-05-2001, 03:48 PM   #19
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I'd like to see the Imperial Issue Blaster to be beefed up significantly. The speed and rate of fire were fine in multiplayer JK/MotS, but the primary fire damge was weak.

The crossbow really needs work. It should dish out real damage. It should be a hitscan weapon with a cool energy trail effect. Primary fire could be more like a shotgun-type weapon for those up close and personal encounters. Would be nice to have an effective shotgun weapon in a Star Wars game. Secondary bowcaster fire could launch a hitscan sniper bolt for ranged attack.

Repeater could also stand some beefing up. More damage per round, please. Maybe attach a thermal detonator launcher on it for secondary fire. That's something the Imperials would do. Instant combo machinegun/grenade launcher.


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Old 06-05-2001, 04:34 PM   #20
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drifter do not steal my concussion quote an pic please.


^^^the above post is likely off topic^^^

"save the concussion rifles"
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Old 06-05-2001, 05:00 PM   #21
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The question is which ones will be changed.....becuase as we've seen so far, raven appear to be going back to the old dark forces feel.


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Old 06-05-2001, 05:19 PM   #22
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Thank you COWB0Y, I wasn't sure exactly what caused the "shooting through walls". But the effect is still basiclly the same, right? I'll have to try that gun out alittle more.

Confed, I'm sorry if you feel offended my by my ideas.... Everything I said was from my own experiance. Not yours. The shooting through walls effect is something I noticed, and is something I'd like to see changed. I don't need to know what exactly is making that happening to know that it shouldn't be there.

I really hope Raven does go back to the classic Dark Forces feel. I haven't noticed anything that has lead me to beleive they are. What have you noticed (besides the ST gun), CaptianRAVE?


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Old 06-05-2001, 06:46 PM   #23
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Well, I don't mind if I see some of the same weapons return...but I would like to see some kind of modifications like those mentioned above.

I mean, JKII is supposed to be set about 14 years after ANH (according to that LEC chat)...and you can't tell me weapons tech just stood still during all that time. The old weapons should be tweaked, either becoming more powerful, more accurate, faster to fire, or have different secondary fire modes - or maybe even a third fire mode.

Other than that, there should be a significant number of new weapons to highlight the advance in time and technology.
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Old 06-05-2001, 06:57 PM   #24
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Word is MOST of the weapons are goin back to the old dark forces feel and look! COOL!


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Old 06-06-2001, 07:21 AM   #25
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NO i repeat NO Weapon of mass destruction should be put into the game it totaly kills gameplay because everyone fights over it and some dork always ends up camping it.. im sure anyone that has actualy played UT knows that the Redeemer Campers are annoying as ....i think you know. i think the game needs to focus more on the Jedi Knight weapons maybe a mod or two of the existing ones and maybe 1 or 2 new ones but i beg of thee no BFG type weapons (BFG for those of you too young to remember is the Big F'ing Gun 9000 from the DooM series hehe) the idea of random spawn items might be an interesting idea.. to detur the "item timers" (people that time how long it is between spawns) these people are totaly lost if someone messes up their timing or are a better "timer" than they are therefor not as good as they make themselves out to be *cough dragonfire*. If every item were on a random spawn and never spawns in the same place twice.


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Old 06-06-2001, 07:55 AM   #26
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random respawns would be detrimental to item control one of the main skills in jk. I personally have an absolutly rubish aim. But I can beat some people who easily out shoot me, even out grip me, by controlling items better.
I love jks 2 methods of picking up items, pulling and walking over, giving 2 different spawn times, (eg things pulled = .5 things walked over) for major items atleast. Thats great for gameplay. I really hope this doesnt have q3 style short weapon spawn times.. or weapon stay.. cept maybe as an option for FFAs
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Old 06-06-2001, 04:31 PM   #27
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The only weapons that wont return are the individual ones that were just for the story line!


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Old 06-07-2001, 12:09 PM   #28
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Quote:
random respawns would be detrimental to item control one of the main skills in jk
I dont mean to offend KillerBee, but since when have item control been one of the main skills in JK? The main skills were practice so you were good using guns/sabers/force or any combination there in, and challenging people better than you so you can gain some insight.

No insult intended but if you have bad aim then practice. But item control basically (not all cases) means that you have little skill in the tools the game has provided, kind of defeats the point of playing it repeatedly if you dont learn something after you play it.
Plus if people figure out you try to control items they know where you will probably be. Just a thought.


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Old 06-07-2001, 12:14 PM   #29
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Sabers are all that i would need in the game..


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Old 06-07-2001, 12:46 PM   #30
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I learn after each match I play.
hell I learnt to control Items, its usually the last skill you learn.
My aims improving (I stopped playing jk, due to technical trouble, and picked up q3.. my jk aim went to pot)
All FPS DM games like q3 etc have a high element of item control. I've played people in quake3 who own me in a 1 v 1 fight with equal health.. but I always have the ammo, health and armour, because they were people who grew up playing CS, and haven't learnt the skills of controlling a level.
Every single decent player at every DM FPS controls items, its an essential skill.
people I play dont need to figure out I am controlling items, they know I will be.. they will be to. If I can stop you getting a gun I win, I dont need to be a good shot. thats using the tools the games provided.. there is no rule that says to win I have to out shoot you.
Practice and playing people better, are not skills, they are required to gain skills.
An FPS usually has balance of 3 main skills, weapon handling, movement, and item control.
each game handles them differently. eg q3 aims very important, movements quite important, and item control is limited to health and armour (also maybe ammo), you cant control guns very well in 1 v 1 dm (well on some levels you can). JKs focus is different, and has 2 other 'skills' (keeping up powers eg absorb.. (not very hard.. hardly a skill.. but you see some people fail..) and reticle speeds, eg speed at which you can get grip locks..).

Ohh and in FF jk everyone knows where everyone else is.. or they have already lost..(map+seeing)
In NF.. its all about bacta and vest control. weapon controlls not an issue seeing they all play ji.
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Old 06-08-2001, 12:10 PM   #31
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since when do i time items confed?


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Old 06-08-2001, 01:55 PM   #32
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Oh bull, NF is not all about bacta and vest control.


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Old 06-08-2001, 02:11 PM   #33
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No its not all about controlling bacta and vest. there is aim and movement skills... but you play someone who is controlling bacta and vest.. you got 100, 100, v 200, 250 effectivly. you need to get over 2 times the hits in.. sure if your MUCH better at shooting then you can do it.. but item controlling is a skill. And as important as aim or movement. so someone who beats you by controlling is better then you, just better at different things.

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Old 06-08-2001, 03:55 PM   #34
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I just hope that in multiplayer the blasters, stormtrooper rifle, bryar, are more powerful. They just in dark forces. And i hope the capture the flag is improved. alot of people play it but i think it sucks in Jedi knight


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Old 06-08-2001, 04:26 PM   #35
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Unlike some of you, I personally think that the area affect, or so-called 'splash damage' of the concussion rifle should stay the same because in multi-player games you can be able to affect say...two other players having a saber battle at the same time, allowing you to "kill two birds with one stone(or in this case, two Jedi with on blast )


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Old 06-09-2001, 03:50 AM   #36
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Many of the weapons from Jedi Knight will return in Outcast (including the Bryar Pistol) and new weapons are promised as well.
-Gamespy E3 Preview

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Most of the weapons from the original return in the sequel: blaster, blaster rifle, stun baton, bowcaster, thermal detonators, and of course your Jedi-affirming lightsaber.
-PC.IGN E3 Preview

Just in case some of you haven't read all the previews: as far as I know this is all that is said about the variety of weapons as far as any listing is concerned.

Of course, the stun baton isn't "returning" from the original.

What is confirmed to be in the game (at this point):
[*]Lightsaber [*]Bryar Pistol[*]Stun Baton[*]Stormie Rifle w/ Scope[*]Bowcaster[*]Thermals

That means all of these have a greater chance to be modified. As of now you shouldn't even count on the Conc, Rail, Repeater, Mines or Carb gun being in the game although they still could put them in. Consequently the previews could be wrong. It happens.

Lightsabers- We're going to need double-sided as well as single-bladed ones of course.

Bryar Pistol- this thing has always sucked in multiplayer. Of all the weapons to keep... *grumble* Give me a good BlasTech DL-44 Heavy Blaster Pistol any day. Please Raven, do something with this piece o' crap weapon.

Stun Baton- last time I used one of these was in Deus Ex- and I found quieter but not less deadly ways to take down my opponents. This doesn't seem to make any sense for multiplayer deathmatch. If I can get close enough to wack you with a stun baton I'd much rather just use my saber and be done with it. Unless of course I was playing another "class" that couldn't wield a saber. Hmmm.

Scoped Stormie Rifle- for the love of little green muppets, it was about time we had a decent sniper rifle. I'm glad they added the optional scope in MotS but I didn't like the way that was done. The time it took from pressing the trigger to hitting my target was too long for my tastes. Other scoped options? I know the stormie scope is already in but I've always drooled over the Tusken Sniper Rifle. Who hasn't wanted to use one of these babies seen in the movies? True, we might need a good locational excuse to get a hold of one of these puppies and that might not be where the plot takes us. However, and this applies to many weapons, you'd be suprised what arsenals various arms dealers, mercenaries or smugglers can have when you run into them. It is always nice to have two weapons with the same purpose but a different firing process and the damage cabilities. The Scooped Stormie Rifle can be absorbed by energy shields, where as the simple non-energy-based Tusken Snipe could penetrate energy shields but not actual armors. The more defense/attack options and therefore strategies the better imo. However, Obi-W*n looks like it might already be including the Tusken Sniper Rifle. :\

One more imporant thing about this Raven: When sniping with the Stormie Blaster for the love of little green muppets Make The Folded-Up Blaster Stock EXTEND. The stock is the thing that is definitely part of the rifle, you see it folded up on the blaster usually, it extends back to give the shooter support against inner shoulder/armpit for things like Sniping. This would only need to be apparent in from the 3rd Person and to therefore to others as far as I can tell.

Bowcaster- All I've got to say is make it so it is actually worth a damn in multiplayer combat. I'm with Wilhuf's suggestion of making it more of a shotgun-type weapon for JK.

Thermals- More powerful, as others have suggested.

Other Weapons They Should Add- Just go nuts Raven and bring us something that adds real balance to the rest of what you are already planning to do. That means you've going to need some heavy weapons. I'm not sweating the return of the Conc or Rail, I'm ready for something fresh and new. Something like, I dunno, the BlasTech T-21 Light Repeating Blaster. It's that big ass gun you see some of the Stormies squads that were searching for the Escape Pod and droids on Tatooine were carrying. Other than that I welcome something almost entirely new to the universe, so just go nuts.

[ June 09, 2001: Message edited by: Krayt Tion ]
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Old 06-09-2001, 04:14 AM   #37
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how bout hands?

force karate chop and force uppercut would make for interesting fights


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Old 06-09-2001, 05:57 AM   #38
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My thoughts:

<h1>Announced Weapons</h1>

Unarmed:
Primary+Still: Normal punch
Secondary+Still: Normal kick
Primary+Back: Normal block
Secondary+Back: Double block
Primary+Forward: Upper cut
Secondary+Forward: Round-house kick
Primary+Jump: Elbow-drop punch.
Secondary+Jump: Jump kick.
Primary+Crouch: Below-the-belt punch.
Secondary+Crouch: Sweep kick.
Etc...

Bryar Pistol
Primary: More accurate, slower recycle time, more damage.

Secondary: Less accurate, faster recycle time, less damage.

Storm Tropper Rifle
Primary: More powerful than bryar pistol; rapid-fire.

Secondary: Stuns target for a few seconds, as in Episode IV.

Repeater
Primary: Same as MotS.

Secondary: Same as MotS.

Thermal Detonators
Primary: Same as MotS, but with some serious punch and large area of effect - these were feared in RotJ.

Secondary: Same as MotS, but with same power as Primary.

Bowcaster
Primary: Make the bolt red, as it should be, make it more deadly than the Storm Trooper Rifle, but less accurate.

Secondary: Give the shot a moderate area-of-effect blast. Not rocket-launcher size, but large enough to significantly hurt 2 to 3 targets near the impact point. Uses more ammo to accomplish this.

<h1>Other Wished-For Weapons</h1>

DL-44 ...Han Solo's blaster.

Primary: as accurate as the primary fire of a Bryar pistol, but with the damage of a Storm Trooper Rifle. Doesn't have the long range of a Bryar.

Secondary: Twice as powerful as the primary fire, but uses twice the ammo.

Storm Trooper Heavy Rifle ...as seen in Episode IV.
Primary: Same power as the Bowcaster, but more accurate.

Secondary: Rapid-Fire, more accurate than Storm Trooper Rifle.

Sandtrooper Turbo-Laser ...as seen in Episode IV.
Primary: Fires a long-range turbo-laser blast; very powerful; area-of-effect blast that can seriously hurt 5 to 6 targets near the impact point.

Secondary: Fires a medium-range, shotgun-like blast, with about a 30-degree spread, that significantly damages all targets within range.

For game balance, should only hold a small number of shots at one time, such as 10 or fewer.

Carbonite Gun
Primary: Fires a short-to-medium-range gas instead of a spray, and works similar to the one in MotS; an excellent bounty hunter weapon.

Secondary: Fires a medium-range ice-crystal shard, which can be used to shatter a frozen target, or simply to injure a live target.

Again, for game balance, the max ammo this weapon can hold should be kept low.

That's it for now, but I may add more later
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Old 06-09-2001, 07:04 AM   #39
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you wont prolly have fists.. as you will have a sabre.
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Old 06-09-2001, 07:30 AM   #40
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i spose you could turn off the saber and just beat them to death with it.....

may not be as elegant, but its a lot of fun


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