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Old 06-22-2001, 06:20 PM   #1
pops2002
 
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Arrow Zone sux ... better idea for MP ...

We all played CS, a famous MOD ...
I think it would be better if MP games for JK2 would be created by ADMINs 24/24.
Why i don't really like the Zone ?
LoL, guy with 28K create games and there are 4 players in the game, do you really enjoy it ?
See CS and follow this example !

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Old 06-22-2001, 06:22 PM   #2
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Why not have it like a UT-style browser to hunt for games.


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Old 06-22-2001, 06:42 PM   #3
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I totally agree with moving this game off the zone. The zone just isnt advanced enough these days to play multiplayer to its fullest. The idea of having a normal desktop commuter host a game for others to join isnt realistic past about 4 players. This game needs dedicated servers. I saw someone else say JK2 should be on the zone cause thats where the best players are...well hello...this is a new game. The only reason the zone does have the best players is because thats where JK started off the biggest. Lucasarts puts all their games on the zone cause they have some sort of contract with the Zone. It's no surpise thats where JK started and thrived. Back when JK was going strong, I was an IRC player and I could see this. The IRC community was much smaller then the zone community, and therefor ppl on the zone had more experience. After having my Clan on IRC so long, we wanted to move to the zone simply cause there was so much competition.
With a new game, however, there is the chance to correct this and get things started off immediately with dedicated servers. Not only could we have around 16 players on one server(EASILY), but that was would cut down on hacking CONSIDERABLY, just cause of the nature of the connection involved. when you play with dedicated servers, most of the game is local to the server as opposed to being local with the clients, like JK. Look at other peer to peer games like Rainbow6 and Roguespear. The MP networking is similiar to JK and they TOO have hackers EVERYWHERE. If you guys really want this game to last for a long time and play it to its fullest...dedicated servers are defeinately the way to go. And if you're concnered about being submersed into the community and getting to know all of your fellow players...you can still do that very easily even with dedicated servers, i promise. Tribes1 has a HUGE community with everyone knowing each other and that game has never come close to the zone. I know a lot of you love the zone and I am in no way bashing or anything. I'm just tryign to convince some of you how much better off we're gonna be if it moves to having Ded servers
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Old 06-22-2001, 06:44 PM   #4
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Yay for dedicated servers!
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Old 06-22-2001, 06:45 PM   #5
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Isnt this another repeated topic. I thought there were other zone ones. Maybe they've been closed or something.....i might be wrong.


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Old 06-22-2001, 06:49 PM   #6
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If thats the case, then sorry for beating a dead horse. But from what I could see on this topic, no one really said anything in favor of the zone or ded servers with any kind of real fact behind it. Just a lot of emotion. I'm just stating facts on ded server superiority.
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Old 06-22-2001, 07:21 PM   #7
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The nice thing of using a Q3TA/SOF2 engine is that you get the network code with it.

So expect a nice little ingame menu like Q3A(not that good) or Q3TA (better) or gamespy (best).
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Old 06-22-2001, 07:23 PM   #8
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Oh and I didn't play CS though... I do play Urban Terror though http://www.urbanterror.net/
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Old 06-22-2001, 07:44 PM   #9
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this means I'll be able to sab with my firewall set to its highest setting. no more open ports for zone to hack anymore yay



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Old 06-22-2001, 08:05 PM   #10
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Dedicated servers are a must.

I like the idea of having an In-game browser like UT. Gamespy would also be fine. But Zone is a no- no


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Old 06-22-2001, 08:09 PM   #11
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I wont start a new thread over this.

Does this mean that lets say I want to play Wilhulf or Gonk I wont be able to because of the new dedicated servers?

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Old 06-22-2001, 09:52 PM   #12
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No see, this is how it works:

Remember how you type in an IP to join a game in JK/MotS? Well it should work the same way here, except you'd go to JK2.net say and you'd see a list of dedicated servers, and so you'd enter one of those and join. You could meet people there to play, etc.

But if you wanted to setup a private game, you would still be able to do that, etc. Because you wouldn't HAVE to use the dedicated servers. Each DS is just another game to join, but one that's maintained and up all the time on a super fast connection.

You could play with Wilhuf or Gonk or whomever in their games just as easily. A built-in server browser would just show you a list of active games, and could includ dedicated servers (see the one in UT or Q3A for reference).

I agree, DS are a must for this game, and the Zone is a definate "no no." I hated the Zone and only used it out of necessity (when I couldn't find games anywhere else). The software was primitive and buggy, the interface sucked, the help pages were out of date, the sysops were often incompetent, and lame-ness was widespread, though there were lots of players there (good and bad).

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Old 06-22-2001, 10:49 PM   #13
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i liked battlenet for Diablo(diablo 1, not 2, which was laggy as hell) b/c it was easy to keep up with friends, it had nice chat rooms that you could talk to people. all you have to do for this is just write down their bnet number and it tells you what game there in(with the /whois function). the hosting of games operated on a client-client server system, but that could easily be replaced with dedicated servers. i believe the sense of closeness could be recreated without the problems of zone(bot protection agaisnt flooders, no sysops with power trips, strong hack protection and frequent patches to proect agaisnt hacks.) the UT game setup was perfect except for 1 thing, which was people weren't assigned numbers like battlenet had so you had no way of tracking friends down. although bnet consisted of my 'zf list' being a piece of paper on which i wrote ppl's #s down.


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Old 06-23-2001, 12:41 AM   #14
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I really cant see them taking the Q3 engine, ripping out the netcode and bunging in new l337 server client code..
so I think dedicated are a must..
We are just going to have to all use irc.
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Old 06-23-2001, 02:35 AM   #15
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They could make an in-game chat feature (R6 had one, although it could have been done better), as well as an in-game server browser.

UT used a built-in IRC client, so that could work.

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Old 06-23-2001, 03:15 AM   #16
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I agree- Ded. servers are a MUST!! I too do not want JKO on the zone:
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Old 06-23-2001, 07:54 AM   #17
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That's what i would like to eard.
ThX [All]



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Old 06-23-2001, 11:19 AM   #18
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The guv'nor's back!! Kurgan, how was your break?

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Old 06-23-2001, 11:24 AM   #19
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Yeah Ded's aight, but at least build in a buddylist with easy messaging or something.
So you can easily join a clanmember or friend


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Old 06-23-2001, 12:11 PM   #20
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build in a search engine to find where people are. that would be great.
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Old 06-23-2001, 12:44 PM   #21
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dedicated servers have like no community dudes


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Old 06-23-2001, 01:31 PM   #22
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jabba you could not be more wrong
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Old 06-23-2001, 01:43 PM   #23
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Yeah Jabba, why not?

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Old 06-23-2001, 01:48 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally posted by pops2002:
<STRONG>We all played CS, a famous MOD ...
I think it would be better if MP games for JK2 would be created by ADMINs 24/24.
Why i don't really like the Zone ?
LoL, guy with 28K create games and there are 4 players in the game, do you really enjoy it ?
See CS and follow this example !

-- YOU THINK DIFFERENT, POST HERE --</STRONG>
Funny thing is...there was already a topic on this. And it would be more like TFC than CS due to the style of play and weapons and its called a dedicated server. My clan uses one. YOu can use HL's ingame broswer on WON or Gamespy Arcade.
To keep in contact, Gamespy Arcade could be used or ICQ or IRC. I think all HL mod gamers will agree, its a easy system and easy to stay in contact with fellow players/clanmates.

[ June 23, 2001: Message edited by: Finalnight ]


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Old 06-23-2001, 02:38 PM   #25
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Ok..explain to me how dedicated servers have as great of real time chatting and friend finders and zone? Where you can meet NEW people easy and find specific games and stuff that matches the old jk games on the zone??


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Old 06-23-2001, 04:59 PM   #26
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Think of it this way:

A dedicated server is up, 24 hours a day, 7 days a week (well it might go down occasionally for a few minutes if something happens on the server end, but you get the idea).

In that time, hundreds or perhaps thousands of players may enter and leave this server.

So there's nothing stopping the same people from logging into the DS every day to play and meet people, etc.

If there's a built in chat feature, then there you go, or else you can just talk in-game, it doesn't matter. You can talk to your friends on IRC or ICQ and agree to meet on the DS.

The other thing is that there will certainly be more than ONE ds. So just think of it as tons of games, that are on super fast public lines, that are up all the time.

So if you had a good connection (say at work or school or an extra computer) you could host a DS for your clan or something. You could play with your friends, or you could open it up to everyone, etc.

It would be much better than the Zone. With the Zone you could only launch games from it (although some of us IPers would just post our IP on the Zone for a game already in progress... but lots of people had been "dumbed down" by the Zone and didn't know how to join IP games, although all the info is in the game manual and countless websites).

The Zone's chat was also very primitive. It lacked most of the features that we've come to expect from IRC, even basic Java chat clients. People could flood with impunity. It was ugly, basic text. You couldn't mute people very well (they could just leave the room and come back, and spam you some more). Those popup messages were annoying too.

Anyway, it would just be a lot better, because 1) you'd have faster games to join 2) you could meet people on the same games and play as long as you want 3) there'd be less potential for MP cheating (well except for stupid client-side stuff like seeing through walls or full-bright, but that's stuff you really can't stop) and a remote admin could help regulate that stuff.

Anything is better than the Zone, with it's forcing you to 'upgrade' the software every week (and not fixing anything but minor bugs and adding more ads) and having hundreds of sysops with total power, but no code of ethics (hence totally arbitrary bannings, ignoring or hassling people of their choice, etc). Admin-Bots could do their job, 100x better as I see it, and that's what most chat rooms do nowadays.

Wean yourselves of the Zone, there are better things out there, and I'm sure people will be pleased with the new system JK2 will use.

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Old 06-23-2001, 05:11 PM   #27
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I think I'm convinced, Ditch the zone, its a a hindrance,

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Old 06-23-2001, 05:32 PM   #28
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play diablo ONE multiplayer Battlenet glows in that form..


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Old 06-23-2001, 10:30 PM   #29
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That is an interesting point. Downloading extra software (the zone) to play the game onlinw.

I prefer the option of having an in-game solution. No sign up for this and receive spam till you drop etc...

I don't want to start up my IE 5.5 (memory hog) log on to the zone (wait wait wait) and then find a server...

With dedicated servers and the Q3TA/SOF2 netcode you just start up the game and refresh your favorite servers list or look for your buddies and GO!

And if you want to meet somewhere, just use IRC or ICQ or any other IM software... No need for M$ to slow things down in the Zone...
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Old 06-23-2001, 11:06 PM   #30
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ok so zone may be bad..but like I'd like to have a place where I can join a game (no in game features...I never really liked the tribes in game thing) with people I know quickly....

What I am mostly concerned about is the meeting new people part...mabe I am just new to Dedicated Servers..but where do people chat and join games..IRC...I can see ICQ but you need to know them first right? where can I go clan recruiting and such where we just chat and I scout for new people on chat?


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Old 06-26-2001, 08:59 AM   #31
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the zone isnt as bad as you dorks make it out to be... yes the zone has its downs but all in all its not a bad place and you arent LIMITED to 4 PLAYERS on the zone.. at least not in all games... in ZoneLAN/IPX i think its up to 8 players and thats enough players and if you want more simply pass out the IP. for those of you that are computer dumb i understand but its not that hard. and i dont think anyone will be playing JK2 on a 28.8 because it wont be like JK/MotS person lag it will be weapons lag if its anything like q3 or any of the other newer games like Tribes2 which means.. if your connection sucks its almost impossible for you to kill anyone because you will have to wait 4 seconds for your weapon to fire after you hit the button. anyway servers are lame there is no "community" where friends can get together and chat. i know some of you anti social hard core "its a game room so you have to play" types dont like that but live with it... and as for flooders.. there is this thing called ignore which any of you dippy doos that say "elite" 9 times out of 10 you are flooders. you can also play on Gamespy if you dont like the zone.. as for the Sysops.. dont make a problem for them and they wont make a problem for you expanding your vocabulary and acting like a human helps when dealing with them. i can see right now the ex MotS people are gona have fun ragging the ex JK people because hardly anyone in JK has a sense of humor and even fewer actualy know what being "elite" is.
the problem with the "make it like UT so you have to hunt for games" is that you hardly ever know who you are gona be playing next and that kinda sucks because sometimes after playing someone you want to hang out more with that person or several other people in the game and the server based crap kinda makes it harder. anyway.. enough of my rant.. i know you wont listen to me but hopefully someone who actualy has a lot of experience with online gaming and being social knows what im talking about.
as for getting hacked while in game... in all my years of playing ive only seen that happen to one person and that was because that person was dumb enough to have a trojan on his computer. im on cable and its yet to happen to me eventhough i do have my firewall on when im not in game. quit being paranoid and have some fun.
p.s. the first NF Sabers game i see played in JK2 will mark my endevor to learn how to hack the snot out of the game... 4years(plus 1 for the wait on JK2) should be enough for yall to get that crap out of your system and figure out that there is more to the game than that. pitty it wont be as easy to do as cogs are.


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Old 06-26-2001, 10:39 AM   #32
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"the zone isnt as bad as you dorks make it out to be... yes the zone has its downs but all in all its not a bad place and you arent LIMITED to 4 PLAYERS on the zone.. at least not in all games... in ZoneLAN/IPX i think its up to 8 players and thats enough players and if you want more simply pass out the IP. for those of you that are computer dumb i understand but its not that hard."

it limits net games to 4, and anyone who puts their IP out to everyone in a large room of people in which a large subset are known to enjoy ruining peoples day, deserve all they get.

"and i dont think anyone will be playing JK2 on a 28.8 because it wont be like JK/MotS person lag it will be weapons lag if its anything like q3 or any of the other newer games like Tribes2 which means.. if your connection sucks its almost impossible for you to kill anyone because you will have to wait 4 seconds for your weapon to fire after you hit the button."

they will all be playing bots..

"anyway servers are lame there is no "community" where friends can get together and chat."

>>>IRC<<<

"i know some of you anti social hard core "its a game room so you have to play" types dont like that but live with it..."

IRC.. no flooders, spamers or other arseholes.. unless you are friends with one..

"and as for flooders.. there is this thing called ignore"

w00p ignore.. that lovely feature that then forgets as soon as you play a game.. and so you have to go all the way through ignoring the countless fools again

which any of you dippy doos that say "elite" 9 times out of 10 you are flooders. you can also play on Gamespy if you dont like the zone.. as for the Sysops.. dont make a problem for them and they wont make a problem for you expanding your vocabulary and acting like a human helps when dealing with them.

Yes Sysops are not a problem, as long as you notice them..

"i can see right now the ex MotS people are gona have fun ragging the ex JK people because hardly anyone in JK has a sense of humor and even fewer actualy know what being "elite" is."

elite? thats easy.. it means actually really good at what they play, but have an ego that is soo large that upon entering a public chat room they are forced to make themselves heard, even if when doing so they make everyone think they are a moronic arsehole.

and JKers, are fine.. you must have spoken to a very small group of them.

"the problem with the "make it like UT so you have to hunt for games" is that you hardly ever know who you are gona be playing next"

usually it tells you who is on it..
and usually people end up banding together.. like on small groups of servers that they get the best ping to. eg I played cs on demon servers..

"and that kinda sucks because sometimes after playing someone you want to hang out more with that person or several other people in the game and the server based crap kinda makes it harder."

ask em what irc server they are on...

"anyway.. enough of my rant.. i know you wont listen to me but hopefully someone who actualy has a lot of experience with online gaming and being social knows what im talking about. "

yes.. but what you seem to forget is IRC!! which is what other gamers use

"as for getting hacked while in game... in all my years of playing ive only seen that happen to one person and that was because that person was dumb enough to have a trojan on his computer. im on cable and its yet to happen to me eventhough i do have my firewall on when im not in game. quit being paranoid and have some fun."

Ive had someone port me whilst in game.


"p.s. the first NF Sabers game i see played in JK2 will mark my endevor to learn how to hack the snot out of the game... "

wow.. admitting your an arsehole^Whax0r


"4years(plus 1 for the wait on JK2) should be enough for yall to get that crap out of your system and figure out that there is more to the game than that. pitty it wont be as easy to do as cogs are."

some people (for some unknown, mystical reason) enjoy nf sabres..
why when ff guns is the only reason to play jk..

Any way, JK2 is on the quake 3 engine.. this means that it will have bots, it will have dedicated servers, it will have lots of other nice features that quake 3 has.. cause they arent exactly going to remove them, and make more work for themselves..

---
bee
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Old 06-26-2001, 10:54 AM   #33
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Okay, here goes the Force Long-Post...

Quote:
Originally posted by Confed:
<STRONG>the zone isnt as bad as you dorks make it out to be...</STRONG>
Please try to be a little less offensive. Just because someone holds a different opinion to you does not make them a "dork".

Quote:
<STRONG>in ZoneLAN/IPX i think its up to 8 players and thats enough</STRONG>
Eight players may be enough for you, but a substantial proportion of the community thinks otherwise. If the community is so important to you as you claim, why do you see fit to ignore their wishes just because you are happy with eight players?

Quote:
<STRONG>if you want more simply pass out the IP</STRONG>
Well, if you're going to mess around doing that, why not just pass out the IP of a DS you are playing on? If you are just using the Zone as a method of passing around the IP addresses, I don't see how it's any better than using ICQ or IRC to do so, and then playing on a DS.

Quote:
<STRONG>for those of you that are computer dumb i understand but its not that hard</STRONG>
Please try to be a little less condescending. And I don't think anyone in their right mind could believe that the Zone requires more computer experience than using a DS. The Zone is the most spoon-fed service I've ever seen.

Quote:
<STRONG>and i dont think anyone will be playing JK2 on a 28.8 because it wont be like JK/MotS person lag it will be weapons lag if its anything like q3 or any of the other newer games like Tribes2 which means.. if your connection sucks its almost impossible for you to kill anyone because you will have to wait 4 seconds for your weapon to fire after you hit the button</STRONG>
You're not seriously going to tell me that you think that a game hosted over the Zone by someone with DSL or cable is going to have less lag than a game hosted on a fast DS by Gamesworld.net or any of the other big gaming sites?

Quote:
<STRONG>anyway servers are lame there is no "community" where friends can get together and chat</STRONG>
Yes there is. What is this site if it's not a community? Just use ICQ/e-mail to organise matches with people you meet here. Usually, people find a particular server they like, close to them which gives them good pings. Then they form a community with other people on that server. If you ever went to O-WK.net, you'll know that Wilhuf often used to set up a DS and organise tournaments for the board members. Now that's community for you.

Quote:
<STRONG>you can also play on Gamespy if you dont like the zone..</STRONG>
And does Gamespy not have DS support?

Quote:
<STRONG>hardly anyone in JK has a sense of humor and even fewer actualy know what being "elite" is</STRONG>
Please stop making sweeping generalisations.

Quote:
<STRONG>the problem with the "make it like UT so you have to hunt for games" is that you hardly ever know who you are gona be playing next and that kinda sucks because sometimes after playing someone you want to hang out more with that person or several other people in the game and the server based crap kinda makes it harder</STRONG>
No it doesn't, just exchange ICQ numbers or e-mail addresses.

Quote:
<STRONG>anyway.. enough of my rant.. i know you wont listen to me but hopefully someone who actualy has a lot of experience with online gaming and being social knows what im talking about.
</STRONG>
Stop assuming no-one will listen to you. I've listened. Just because I happen to disagree doesn't mean I've not listened to you. You seem to think that anyone who has a different opinion to you must be wrong, which you must agree is a bit arrogant because it is based on the assumption that your opinion is always right.


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Old 06-26-2001, 03:26 PM   #34
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If you start your post with calling everybody that disagrees with you a dork, yes of course nobody is going to listen...

I'm glad ed_silvergun and KillerBee had the patience to tell you their p.o.v.

I don't...
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Old 06-27-2001, 07:07 AM   #35
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ya so ive just gone through 6 names b/c some ***** ass sysop named +Brian_USN gave me a day ban for saying a naughty word. ok, so i was violating the CoC and he was just doing his job - so heres the catch: as soon as he'd give me a ban, i'd quickly unban myself by deleting a few key files. I'd show up with a slight variation to my name OR I'd come in with a eVe_Diffname. as soon as i showed up in room without saying anything, he'd ban the eVe name. This was AFTER i reconnected(therefore new ip) so what happens if one of my clanmates goes into Nar? He doesn't even actually wait to see if Im the same person or to see if i'd violate CoC, he just bans whatever name with a eVe_ before it that comes into the room. He doesn't have a ip or file to match me as the same person either so for all he knew, I was someone else.

That is just 1 reason why bots would do so much better than the zone's sysops.

[ June 27, 2001: Message edited by: [eVe]DeathBoLT ]


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Old 06-27-2001, 09:25 AM   #36
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whoo hooo easily nudged out those responses... see i knew the ex mots crew was gona have fun with the ex JK crew


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Old 06-27-2001, 09:31 AM   #37
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I'm ex-MotS and ex-JK, so where does that leave me?


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Old 06-27-2001, 11:59 AM   #38
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if your idea of fun is having all your ideas picked to peices, then let the good times role!
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Old 06-27-2001, 03:09 PM   #39
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i think whatever they put in the game, people will use. since i have never used dedicated servers, with the exception of starcraft very little, i am interested to see how they work. i think that since they have been around a while, they will probably work well, and have many of the features people have been complaining about, just a theory though....

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