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Old 08-22-2001, 02:17 PM   #1
Saladin
 
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Post Alternate ways to control the lightsaber in Jedi Outcast?

If any of you have played the Star Wars Arcade game by Sega, (If not, go play it!) you'll be familiar with the control scheme for it.

What does everyone think of having a joystick control Kyle's lightsaber in Outcast and the keyboard control his actual movement. Having a joystick would not only add to the realism, but also make it a lot more easier to control.

So how about? Meh, bigons.
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Old 08-22-2001, 02:31 PM   #2
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I'm going to put the gameplay and comfort aspects of such an idea aside for the moment to comment more on the practical matter of this:

Every gamer would then be required to purchase an extra peripheral just to play the game. From a marketing standpoint I cannot see this being feasible.

As an option this is doable but not as a requirement for playing the game, I'm not sure which you meant.
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Old 08-22-2001, 03:15 PM   #3
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Surely not as a requirement, merely an option for gamers prefer the use of a joystick opposed to a mouse.
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Old 08-22-2001, 03:25 PM   #4
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*sighs* I hate to start this again, but... Mouse is better then stick. Stick could be ok for sabers, but remember JK2 will have guns as well, and the mouse if far superior in guns aiming. I think we should all be very suspicious of "alternative" saber control systems. The glyth system sounded like a cool idea, but in reality it was very impracticle and contributed to the death of Obi-Wan on the PC.

[ August 22, 2001: Message edited by: -WD- ToRMeNt ]
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Old 08-22-2001, 03:50 PM   #5
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Remember the glyph system was basically going to do the same thing, except using the mouse. There are many other problems to consider when suggesting using a peripheral as only saber control. Joystick will probably be supported, but not as a saber only control.
If the joystick only controlled the saber how would one circle-strafe or free look all the time? Raven will come up with a more practical system, and they said in one preview it will be a combination of the mouse and keys.

Edit: Also how does having a joystick control the saber add to the realism? Last time I checked a Jedi didnt stand behind his saber controlling it with a joystick.

[ August 22, 2001: Message edited by: Syndrix ]


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Old 08-22-2001, 05:36 PM   #6
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Jedi don't use a keyboard or mouse to control there sabers either.
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Old 08-22-2001, 06:16 PM   #7
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glyph + lock on could have been great for sabs.
I would still like to see it implemented.
if the lock on held your head on the target, with maybe a slight delay for rapid changes of movement, then the mouse would be totally free for doing combos..
it would rule imho.
until someone dropped a thermie on them
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Old 08-22-2001, 08:43 PM   #8
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For maximum flexibility, the saber should be controlled by combinations of buttons, character movement, & jumping / crouching.

For example, moving left while swinging might produce one move, while moving forward and jump-swinging might product a different move.

Conversely, moving backward and pushing the block button would produce one move, while running forward and pushing block would result in another.

This way the lightsaber control is completely independent of joystick, mouse, or neural interface.
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Old 08-22-2001, 11:45 PM   #9
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I don't like the idea of a block button. Doesnt matter though, looks like JK2 will use autoblocking, same as JK.

To me it's kinda looking like the saber controls will behave like JK. JK did have differant moves depending on input. Strafe + primary fire produced a short side swing and so forth. I think the saber controls will be more or less unchanged, but graphicaly they will look much improved.
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Old 08-23-2001, 12:15 AM   #10
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well, a preliminary report of jkii said there were gonna be many more saber moves.

if the use the key+fire for the both fire 1&2 i suppose that would add enough swings, but i am wondering how many moves Raven/LEC had planned on putting in...

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Old 08-23-2001, 04:08 AM   #11
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Well I want a few more swings myself... Please hehe. And the only other thing I have to say about saberz are , if I hit someone with it , I want it to CUT/KILL them. I don't care who you are , if you get hit with a saber your not just gonna flinch! (like in JK)
May suck in multi though... Who cares! I want it that way for Single! hehe just makes battles more intense and more blocking and junk... something like that


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Old 08-23-2001, 10:45 AM   #12
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Although its been a while im pretty sure in single, one saber swing, killed all non jedis in one swing, while in multi it took 2 which i think is the perfect number.. is is too little as a lucky shot can screw up a game, and any more than 2 could take 2 excellent saberists a looong time to play. a few more combos could be cool the use button + mouse is a ggod idea by someone...


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Old 08-23-2001, 04:41 PM   #13
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Though the thread appears to reflect that everyone agrees that a joystick-controlled saber would be a bad idea, I'd like to go ahead and add my $.02:

Joystick + FPS = Dead Meat.

Thank you.



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Old 08-23-2001, 09:07 PM   #14
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About the "more moves", they could just be randomizing a bit. Say if you hit pri fire + stafe you'll get one of three moves that have the same damage and range, but look differant.

Im sure though that they will work on the jump + saber though. In JK secondary always made the same swing but primary could make differant swings depending on other imput. I'm guessing that why will add some varienty to the secondary fire as well. Over all though, I don't think the saber controls themselves with be changed much.
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Old 08-23-2001, 10:21 PM   #15
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Hey, Matthew Hutchinson, if you'd care to put your money where your mouth is, we'll see who the dead meat actually is. Let me know, and we can hook up for some MotS.
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Old 08-23-2001, 11:56 PM   #16
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uhh oh, sounds like matt is in for some arse kicking....

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Old 08-24-2001, 01:41 AM   #17
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looks like a challenge has been put forth by Vag against Matthew Hutchinson any one care to put bets on it??




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Old 08-24-2001, 05:47 AM   #18
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It would be like betting on a fight between a chess club kid and a marching band member in high school.
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Old 08-24-2001, 10:58 AM   #19
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dude, have you said one good thing ever?

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Old 08-24-2001, 12:43 PM   #20
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On the subject of more moves, if they added different animations for the same attack that would be terrible. This time around you are able to see what is happening in fast paced combat much better, even on a fuzzy video that was shot in 3 minutes.

So with that in mind I think Raven should include enough different attacks that they dont need to add different animations for the same attack. The one exception is if they have a standard forward attack, it will probably slash diagonally down as seen in the E3 footage, so it will slash downward right to left and then left to right. Nice touch as it would start over the other side if you had just slashed, cant remember if JK did this and it just looks much better or not.

Anyway, if the saber is to be based on skill you dont want a random system. It could have worked in JK because it really didnt matter, but in the Q3A engine with the possibility of per-pixel collision detection it is going to matter which direction and what angle it comes from. A saberist would want to be sure of what the attack he was going to perform would do, as timing is hopefully quite important this time around.

As for jumping and attacking, I hope it produces one direct downward slice ala Obi-wan in TPM (I think), any other attack would be useless as it would be better from the ground. This was the problem with JK, jumping wouldnt help in a "real" saber fight, quite the opposite it would be a disadvantage as it would leave you very open. If jumping left you vunerable it would promote less jumping, it would only really be useful as an opener before proper combat.
And yes, this is all off the original topic.


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Old 08-24-2001, 01:27 PM   #21
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well, normal jumping, yes, but force jumps dont leave one so vunerble...

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Old 08-24-2001, 03:40 PM   #22
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You know I almost typed "force jumps are a different matter", but I didnt for some reason. Anyway I have something different in mind for force jumps but will discuss it later, when I can be bothered typing another large post.


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Old 08-24-2001, 04:03 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally posted by -WD- ToRMeNt:
<STRONG>It would be like betting on a fight between a chess club kid and a marching band member in high school.</STRONG>
In this case, who's the chess club kid?



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Old 08-24-2001, 04:19 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally posted by Vagabond:
<STRONG>Hey, Matthew Hutchinson, if you'd care to put your money where your mouth is, we'll see who the dead meat actually is. Let me know, and we can hook up for some MotS.</STRONG>
You're on, Banta breath!

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Old 08-24-2001, 05:54 PM   #25
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Tiiiiiickets! Get yer tickets! Can we have spectators?
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Old 08-24-2001, 06:07 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally posted by Krayt Tion:
<STRONG>Tiiiiiickets! Get yer tickets! Can we have spectators? </STRONG>
But of course! The more witnesses to my victory, the better!


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Old 08-28-2001, 09:07 AM   #27
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Way it worked in jk, primary's rotated thru a combo of 4 swings, it was just consecutive, u couldn't choose the right swing, just wait for the one u wanted to rotate to the top.

Most saberists halfway keep track of what swing is up, but its not important cause u can use any of them in semi similar ways.

I'd like to see it totally based on movement for more precision.

U could have every swing controlled by strafe and a movement key. forward and backward would control up and down, strafe would control right and left. That'd give u every move jk has flat out, but u could pick and choose. I'd use 2ndary for broader swings, like the 4th and 3rd swings in the primary rotation if u stand still. Baseball lookin wind ups.

Some genius could prolly even use the mouse to spice things up a lil bit, but that'd be the basic swings all wrapped up and delivered.


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Old 08-28-2001, 04:24 PM   #28
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JK had 5 primary swings
Statioanry
moving forwards 3 short swings in rotation
moving backwards the upercut
strafe left and right for side wacks
and the one everyone used.. alt fire.

if you actually play jk with out always run on the other strokes become quite effective.. but finding people who understand "turn always run off" is quite hard ducked boxing is also fun
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Old 08-28-2001, 10:14 PM   #29
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yar, my mistake. I use the swings yer talkin bout, lots of folks dont. To get em out of always run u have to actually stop fer a sec and that cycle clicks in.


Lucky


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Old 08-30-2001, 07:13 PM   #30
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Absolutley agree with you Killer. The funny thing is, as long as I have been playing sabers, I never used "always run", but most people do. Also, most players know about holding down primary, and then incorporating "z" into the mx. I proabably do a little of both, sometimes Im just holdig down primary, and other time im taping for other swings, while standing or not running. You get allot more varitey of swings this way..as you said


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