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Old 06-10-2001, 04:43 AM   #1
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Thumbs up St Vs.SW

I'd love to drive my star destroyer through the enterprise.
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Old 06-10-2001, 08:39 AM   #2
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Id love to blow up the enterprise with the DEATH STAR!!!!! That would be sweet!


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Old 06-10-2001, 02:27 PM   #3
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How about beam my lightsaber up their arse?



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Old 06-10-2001, 02:33 PM   #4
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Shouldn't this be on the Theed Palace forum?

Anyway...

I'd like to see Voyager take out about 10 TIE Fighters, then have to take on the Mullenium Falcon. It'd be a tough call to see who would win there, but I'll bet that the Falcon wins some how.

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Old 06-10-2001, 02:33 PM   #5
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Let's compare their weaponry. The Enterprise probably has the stronger ship-to-ship weaponry, if we compare it to a Star Destroyer. Photon Torpedoes contain Anti-matter, and those who have some more in-depth physics knowledge know that stuff can be explosive (or at least that's how it's imagined).
But let's say the Star Destroyer would launch all it's fighters. What could the Enterprise do? Locking on to swarms of buzzing TIEs? That may prove difficult. Then of course there would be the squadron of 12 TIE Bombers that could cause havoc to the Enterprise. The Enterprise doesn't have it's own starfighters, if you don't count shuttlecraft.
So I think SW is the winner.


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Old 06-10-2001, 04:47 PM   #6
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Both have a rather large fleet to back them up. But which can get there faster? Warp drive or Hyperdrive? The falcon can go 1.5 the speed of light. The standard max warp is 8, I think. Assuming both sides call for reinforcements at the same time, and reinforcements are the same distance away, I'd have to say ST has a fair chance.

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Old 06-10-2001, 04:58 PM   #7
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Yes and because its Star Trek they would think of some new weapon that just happens to save them in the nick of time.....handy that seein as it happens in every episode!


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Old 06-10-2001, 05:00 PM   #8
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Oh no, not another one of these threads! *shock* *horror*

Personally, I think Star Wars has the best vehicles, the best aliens, the best looking/sounding weapons, the best droids, and the best one-line sarcasm than any of the Star Trek series. (Well, maybe the Doctor on Voyager did have some good lines).

Star Wars is a dirty, gritty lived-in universe - and you get access to the entire Star Wars galaxy, rather than being restricted to a particular quadrant a la Star Trek.

Don't get me wrong, I grew up watching the original series of Star Trek (well, the reruns in the early 70's anyway), and it was great. I also sort of liked TNG, but I was never a fan of the others.

But Star Wars captures my imagination far better. For one thing, the characters aren't spouting techno-babble every five minutes. For another, they still have seat-belts in their space-craft. I mean, come on, in Star Trek they've forgotten the fundamental use of the seat-belt. Switch off the artificial gravity, and they've got real problems!

That just does it for me.
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Old 06-10-2001, 11:35 PM   #9
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And during every battle, there are countless injuries due to console explosions. If only the future supported fuses.


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Old 06-10-2001, 11:38 PM   #10
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Here's a real mind boggler.

If ST ships go faster than SW ships, then how is it that in ST, they can't travel the length of the galaxy in a reasonable time, while in SW they can in a matter of weeks?


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Old 06-11-2001, 05:34 AM   #11
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Hyperdrive HAS to be superior to Warp-drive... maybe Trans-warp drive could match Hyperdrive, but Trans-warp techonlogy isn't currently available to the Federation.

I think the federation however, outguns the Empire/New Republic. Phasers are improvements over lasers(i.e. Turbolasers, blasters) as the orginal star trek pilot episodes had the federation using laser pistols, etc. and it is established that Phasers are upgrades from Lasers. So even tho ISDs are nearly 2 kilometers packing huge turbolasers, as opposed to starfleet ships, whose biggest ships are under 1 kilometer, the Federation packs a stronger punch. And considering the federations recent aquistions of futuristic(futuristic as in futuristic from their time) technology(Regenerative Ablative Armor = near unstopable and extremely power trans-phasic torpedoes), I think the federation would leave large debris fields composed of shattered star destroyers. Transporters also would give an edge to the federation(imagine mass transporting sections of star destroyer crews or fighter pilots from their TIE fighters into the cold of space).

I don't think the fighters would give SW a huge advantage - if the phasers were to be modified to provide rapid fire(at the cost of a slight reduced strength), i think federation ships would be able to clear through fighter screens. Star trek shows a proffiency relying on computers- star destroyers are known to pakc 32,000 crew members(see Essential Vehicle Manual), whereas the biggest federation starships aintian 1000 crews at most- locking onto multiple targets would be no prob for a federation computer. Also all it would take is to detonate a torpedo into a fighter formation to wipe a squadron with one stone.

The Federation would inflict tremondous losses onto The Empire/New Rep. but the Federation's member count is at 150+ star systems as oposed to the Empire/New Republic's multi-thousands of star systems count. If the empire/new republic devoted its thousands of warships agaisnt the Federation, I think the federation would be in trouble. The Empire or New Rep. could exercise a tatic Gen. Grant used agaisnt Gen. Lee in the American Civil War - grind the army with fewer reserves down to nothing. The Federation would presumably be able to muster several hundred starships if it dug deep(maybe more if combined with fleets from Klingon + Romulan Empires), but if it were to lose 50-100 ships every battle, with the emp/rep fleets losing 100-300 ships respectively, in the end, the empire would be the victor with hundreds of ships lost but thousands left. Not even to mention the implications of the fact that the hyperdrive would allow the empire to beat the federation to every spot for at least the first few sorties..

I have to say the last few seasons of star trek deep space nine were my most favorite seasons of star trek EVER. the seasons covering the Federation-Dominion War had to have made star trek the best sci-fi series ever.

[ June 11, 2001: Message edited by: IronTitan ]


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Old 06-11-2001, 08:23 AM   #12
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Old 06-11-2001, 10:37 AM   #13
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trekkies tend to babble on...... expect it in threads like this one


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Old 06-11-2001, 10:47 AM   #14
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babble on...... *sigh* that was a bad bad unintentional sci fi pun


*slaps himself*


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Old 06-11-2001, 12:59 PM   #15
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Isn't the blasters plasma bolts, and not lasers? Or is that the same thing?
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Old 06-11-2001, 04:27 PM   #16
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Plasma is a mass of anions, positive ions. Usually with all their valence(outermost) electrons stripped away. That gives them a tremendous amount of energy.

Laser is a coherent light beam, nothing more.


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Old 06-11-2001, 04:46 PM   #17
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SWs... made up. ST... made up. You guys might as well be arguing over the outcome of a fist fight between Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny.

The two are very differant and hard to compare. ST *tries* be be somewhat believable. SW doesn't care and is just fantasy. If you want to compare them though...

ST pretty much has the same plot over and over again. It seems like they travel back in time in half the movies. I'm also sick of them winning by reconiguring something or pressing a lot of buttons. ST is boring. SW is so much deeper and exciting.

ST aliens suck, it's always just some guy with some latex comstume piece on his head. SWs has Jabba, Yodo (whatever he is), Jaws, Ewoks, and all kinds of things that arn't approximately human sizes.

Really though, the differance between the two is in personal taste, not it which one is better.

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Old 06-11-2001, 05:17 PM   #18
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Um....guys.....

Go outside and get some fresh air.



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Old 06-11-2001, 05:23 PM   #19
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Okay, I hate to, but I'll bite on this one.

Even though I like Star Wars better, I think Star Trek has superior tech, and would win the day. Here are my thoughts:

Propulsion

Warp Advantages:
-Allows communication while in transit
-Allows weapon firing while in transit
-Allows sensors to operate while in transit

Warp Disadvantages:
-Can be detected while in transit (unless cloaked)
-Slower than hyperspace

Hyperspace Advantages:
-Faster than warp
-Undetectable while in transit

Hyperspace Disadvantages:
-Can not communicate while in transit
-Can not fire weapons while in transit
-Can not use sensors while in transit

Weapons

Phaser Advantages:
-Faster than blaster bolts
-Strong enough to bake the surface of a planet - destruction equivalent to the Death Star from a strategic standpoint
-Few weapons can cover a very large firing arc

Phaser Disadvantages:
-Require lots of energy, hence are tied into the warp core, making all phasers inoperable if the relays go down.

Photon Torp Advantages:
-Extremely explosive.

Photon Torp Disadvantages:
-Dangerous to use at close range.
-Relatively slow.

Turbo-laser Advantages:
-Many can be brought to bear on one or several targets at once

Turbo-laser Disadvantages:
-Likely not as strong as phaser - I'm unaware of any accounts referring to the surface of an entire planet being baked, except for the Death Star.

Targeting

Star Trek Advantages:
-Many targets can be tracked and fired on by the computer at speeds beyond a Human's capability to react - this would render squadrons of unshielded TIE fighters as mere target practice, decimating them in mere seconds.

Star Trek Disadvantages:
-If the targeting computer is disabled, manual control is much less precise than the Star Wars counterparts.

Star Wars Advantages:
-Most batteries are individually operated, hence no reliance on one single targeting computer.

Star Wars Disadvantages:
-Targeting during battle is less-organized and can be more reactionary than orchestrated.

-Targeting is only computer-assisted, not computer-controlled, making the targeting and firing at targets much less precise than in Star Trek.

Shielding

Star Trek Advantages:

-The shields are strong enough to allow a vessel to travel into the upper atmosphere of a Star, as demonstrated in several episodes.

-Laser weapons have a virtually insignificant impact on Star Trek shielding.

-Shielded shuttlecraft can survive several direct hits from a capital ship.

Star Trek Disadvantages:
-None that I am aware of.

Star Wars Advantages:
-Death Star Shield generators, and planetary shields are very strong.

Star Wars Disadvantages:
-Capital ship shields tend to be very weak and fail after only a few shots.

-Starfighter shields don't even seem to be able to survive a direct hit (in the movies, not the games).

Cloaking

Star Trek Advantages:
-Cloaked ships can see while cloaked.
-Cloaking technology is relatively wide-spread and accessible.

Star Trek Disadvantages:
-Ships can not normally fire while cloaked.

Star Wars Advantages:
-That cloaking a ship is possible.

Star Wars Disadvantages:
-Cloaked ships are blind.
-Cloaking technology is very rare and poorly understood.

Again, from a personal standpoint, I prefer Star Wars. But after comparing the advantages and disadvantages, it seems to me that given an equal number of Federation warships and Imperial warships, the Federation ships would handily defeat the Imperials.

[ June 11, 2001: Message edited by: Vagabond ]
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Old 06-11-2001, 05:29 PM   #20
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I really never watched ST. I've seen a few of the movies, and they're okay.

I only saw SW for the first time when the Special Editions were out in theaters.
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Old 06-12-2001, 12:44 AM   #21
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Quote:
Photon Torp Disadvantages:
-Dangerous to use at close range.
-Relatively slow.
Photon Torpedoes travel at warp speed - they're used in warp speed engagements so they're not slow at all - faster than phasers


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Old 06-12-2001, 03:08 AM   #22
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I beg to differ. If you watch any of the shows - TV or Motion Picture - the phasers hit their targets nearly instantaneously, while the photon torpedoes take noticably longer.
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Old 06-12-2001, 03:42 AM   #23
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The Falcon can go .5 past lightspeed when it is not in hyperspace. Hyperspace is space time warping thorugh the 4th deminsion. Take a piece of paper, it represents a 2D object, place point A on the far left and pont B on the far right. If you were two dimensional, it would take a while to travel from A to B. Now fold the paper, creating a 3D object, fold it so A and B are right next to each other instant warp from A to B buy subverting the 2D with the 3D. Now take a 3d object (time being the 4D) warp it so it goes into 4D. Now you have Hyper space. If the Falcon was one of the fastes ships, and it only went 1.5 times the speed of light, it would take a very long time to get from one side of the galaxy to the other, try 15 million years! I think Star Wars is faster, they have better weapons (Star Destoryer, Sun Crusher, etc.) plus the Force. Star Trek has lame Vulcan meditations and aliens that can use telepathy with their moms. And the Borg cube is a horribly cheap imiation of the Death Star, they couldn't even make it round.
Oh ya, dosen't Star Wars have the Eye of Palaptine, which was capable of firing extremly destructicve missles through hperspace with there own weapons system. That could win the battle right there for them. Plus the Sun Crusher, Star Wars would kick the Ferangie(?) out of Star Trek.

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Old 06-12-2001, 03:53 AM   #24
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I beg to differ on the hyperdrive/warp drive speed. Han Solo is heard saying,"She can do .5 past lightspeed." So a medium sized craft can do 1.5 times the speed of light. A Federation starship has an average max warp of 8. Warp 1 is the speed of light. I believe Warp 2 is 10 times the speed of light. Warp 8 is 1,024 times lightspeed, or over 800 times as fast as the falcon(which made the Kessel run in under 12 parsecs)! That means that your average Fed ship can outrun your imp/rebel one!


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Old 06-12-2001, 02:04 PM   #25
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hyperspace IS faster than warp travel - tre's explanation is on target. while warp 9 is several thousands multiplications of the speed of light, hyperspace is like taking a string with each end representing point a and point b - you bend the string and put the two points together to get hyperspace travel.

vagabond, my source is the Star Trek TNG techincal manual on the enterprise + the Star Trek Encyclopedia. while they may appear to travel slower, i think that is merely for effects. torpedoes are alot more impressive if u can actually see them as opposed to a sudden explosion on a enemy ship, as the torp would arrive at its target even before u saw the flash of light of it being launched from the starship if u viewed it realisticly. the producers HAVE established tho that it travels at warp speed.

Tre, most starships would probably outgun a Star Destroyer based off the effect that lasers don't hurt federation shielding very badly and Phasers are superior weapons to Turbolasers. the Federation has Regenerative Ablative Armor technology now(final episode of Voyager). Ablative Armor works as this: When an energy weapon or projectile weapon is collides with the armor, the armor shears off taking the enegry weapons charge or the kenetic energy of the projectile, leaving the equipment and ship underneath unharmed. the regenerative part of regenerative ablative armor means that as the enemy ship fires at it, the armor is sheared off leaving the ship underneath unharmed- the regerative property takes place when the ablative armor is regenerated, thus acting as if the enemy ship had not fired at all.

other recent additions gained fromn the final episode of voyager was Transphasic torpedoes that shattered a borg cube, which means it wouldn't take that many transphasic torpedoes to shatter a Star Destroyer or maybe even a Death Star.

Solution for beating the Sun Crusher: Beam its crew off the ship and into outter space :P


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Old 06-12-2001, 02:20 PM   #26
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IronTitan, you're free to believe what you want, as am I. Me, I believe what I can directly observe, not necessarily what someone wrote down in a book.

Let's take Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country. At the climax of the show a torpedo is specially modified to home in on the cloaked Klingon Bird of Prey. The torpedoe slowly circles until it gets a lock, and then destroys the ship.

Look at any of the Star Trek shows and you'll observe similar effects. Phasers are more "speed-of-light" weapons, while torpedoes are slower.

Believe what you want, but if torpedoes are warp-capable, then phasers are still somehow faster. The proof's in the pudding. If you're not going to believe your own eyes, then what will you believe?
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Old 06-12-2001, 02:23 PM   #27
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The Sun Crusher was a stupid weapon, just another superweapon created in that otherwise good series to try and make it more interesting the easy way.

You can't really compare SW and ST. The Phaser was made up, so how can you say it's better than the laser. How do you know in SW they didn't upgrade the laser in a different way but decide to still call it the laser for simplicity? To know which was better, you'd really have to make George Lucas and whoever started ST to get together and intertwine the universes. Otherwise, you don't know what's what. Besides, who cares who would win in a fight. It's all a matter of opinion with which you like better, so don't argue about it. So, hopefully that's all settled.


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Old 06-12-2001, 02:40 PM   #28
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i believe the torpedoe already hit the target and we're just seeing old light that hasn't reached our eyes yet :P

still, i'd over look some errors and have faith in the producers =) after all, what would they use in warp-speed chases its not like they could use phasers(which are limited by lightspeed) - it'd be like peeing into a windtunnel thats blowing your way


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Old 06-12-2001, 02:41 PM   #29
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As far as I know. Phasers on the scale of ships, not hand held phasers, are much more powerful. Phasers are a concentrated beams of energy. Blasters are bolts of energy. Thus phasers should be more powerful.

When was the last time you saw a blaster vaporize someone.

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Old 06-12-2001, 03:28 PM   #30
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Maan, the LASER in SW are just called LASER, it's not the WEAK laser here on earth, its a concentrated coherent pack of energy wich is fired. Even a X-Wings laser is as strong as the Phaser.

SW is MUCH SUPERIOR to ST in ALL categories.
with Hyperspace capability you are able to travel trough the galaxy in Weeks! If u use WARP technology, you would need DECADES!

Photon Torpedos are less weaker than Turbolasers, few Turbolaser shots would destroy the entire Enterprise!
SW Shields are a lot more stronger than ST ones...

There is a comparsion at this site
http://www.stvssw.50megs.com/

There was one


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Old 06-12-2001, 07:26 PM   #31
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You cant really compare them....its not as if theyd ever put them together!


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Old 06-12-2001, 08:17 PM   #32
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that comparision is related to complex science... very interesting and hard to understand, but u'll see for example that the strenght of the SW shields are much superior to the ST shields, there are some examples why it is so (e.g. movies and series...)

Believe me, SW ownz ST
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Old 06-12-2001, 08:29 PM   #33
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laser is an acronym for Light Amplification by Stimulated Emission of Radiation. I assume that Phaser stands for PHotonic Amplification by Stimulated Emission of Radiation. Being that light and photons are the same, I would say so are lasers and phasers.


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Old 06-13-2001, 04:24 AM   #34
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I may be mistaken, but I remember reading in a Star Wars source guide of some sort that there "lasers" were actually plasma. Plasma is a gas heated to an extremely high tempertaure, even hotter thatn the sun, to release pure energy. It would be far more destructive that a laser, only copper can contain it. That is why Star Wars guns have energy cells. They are filled with gas, each shot heats the gas to a very high temperature for a very short time to realease the plasma. Some gases have stronger plasma properties, such as the green tibanna gas plasma. I don't know, I guess I really am a nerd, I've got nothing better to do than talk about ST vs. SW... which Star Wars would control. ok. done.


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Old 06-13-2001, 04:37 AM   #35
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Plasma is a mass of anions, positive ions. Their valence electrons have been stripped away, giving them a strong positive charge. They repel each other and create motion, and therfore heat.


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Old 06-13-2001, 04:38 AM   #36
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Technically a SW laser isn't a real laser than. And I do believe ST shields are weak against plasma.


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Old 06-13-2001, 05:09 AM   #37
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i looked it up in the Star Trek Encyclopedia and phaser is a acronym for 'PHASed Energy Rectification' therefore not neccesarily lasers - and in any case it wouldn't make any sense to use Phasers as opposed to Lasers(which the first few star trek episodes used) if Lasers were more powerful. Now if lasers are plasma thats a diff story.. however nothing regenerative ablative armor can't handle.

all arguments over phasers + photon torpedoes i'd like to direct attention to the fact that the federation has regenerative ablative hull armor and transphasic torpedoes..

a star destroyers engages a federation starship w/ its regen. ablative armor on. turbolasers hammer at the federation ship's hull which burns away carrying the energy off leaving the ship underneath unharmed - and the armor that was just evaporated suddenly reapears. whatever dent the star destroyer makes in the federation star ship's hull refuses to stay! thats how the regen. ablavtive armor works(given to the federation courstesy of people from the federation's future). and then i go onto Transphasic Torpedoes - these aren't Photon Torpedoes or Quantum Torpedoes - Photons + Quantum torps don't even begin to approach Transphasic Torpedoes(also given to the U.S.S. Voyager courtesy of future federation members). Voyager engaged 3 borg cubes on its way to a transwarp hub - the 3 borg cubes(near equivlants to Death Stars themself(not in size but in power)) couldn't touch Voyager and when the cubes tractored Voyager thus slowing it down, Voyager shattered them with a few transphasic torpedoes. Now if a transphasic torpedo can dispatch a Cube with such ease like that, I don't see how a Star Destroyer stands any better chance.


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Old 06-13-2001, 02:05 PM   #38
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Would this be the "Techno-Babble" people keep talking about?



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Old 06-13-2001, 02:37 PM   #39
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No, he's talking about the series finale of Voyager. Be careful not to label as "techno-babble" any argument that shows Star Trek tech as more powerful than Star Wars tech. Doing so just makes one appear to not want to listen to the facts.

Again, I prefer Star Wars, but I believe that Star Trek ships, one-to-one, would defeat Star Wars counterparts.
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Old 06-13-2001, 03:29 PM   #40
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Can't we all just get along?


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