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Old 11-16-1999, 07:23 PM   #1
Little Vader
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Post "Good" Topics

Here's a topic you're bound to like:

Who here is most deserving to be a moderator?

We could have a vote in this topic list and then elect the winner of the vote as a new moderator... to fill in for Lt. Guilo (I read his tragic final post). What do you think? R.A.V.E.N., Lujayne, or Lt. Cracken, tell me what you think.

My vote is already set on Nitro because I think he's a good man and he's been here well long enough (I think; Correct me if I'm wrong). What do YOU think?

Another topic I'd like to discuss is gaming violence. I wanted to take a little pole and send it to PC Gamer on if you do or do not think that violence can effect youngsters (or oldsters for that matter). My opinion is no, since I believe that games are simply games, and nothing more. Yes, sometimes the violence, profanity, language, and nudity level are often high and they could maybe influence kids into the wrong direction, but that doesn't mean they're going to kill everybody in their school. So, what do YOU think?

My other "good" topic is about this forum. Do you think that these types of forums are good or bad ideas? I've heard a lot of negative feedback on this topic, since many friends say they go to forums like this one and never acomplish anything. Personally, I LOVE this forum, but others may have suggestions on how to improve it (I've heard many beg for a better ranking system).
Oh, and I have just one suggestion to make myself: Have a member-recruiting contest, or something like that, in order to get some more members in this cozy 'lil forum.

Here's another good topic I just thought of: What's your opinion on Wedgey ? I've never seen any of his posts, so I want some feedback on this.

Thank you,

The Undertaker

--------------------------------------------

No Johnny, No! -Paula Jones

Yes, Yes, yes!- Monica Lewinski
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Old 11-16-1999, 08:36 PM   #2
Lt Cracken
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We have enough moderators as it is. there is no need for anymore........

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Even if you dodge this, Kakarotto,
THIS PLANET'S GOING UP IN SMOKE!!

Vegeta, DragonBall Z

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Old 11-16-1999, 09:45 PM   #3
R.A.V.E.N.
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Oh all right, I'll tell you the wedgey story, if you can prove you are'nt wedgey. It's very simple jest e-mail me at
theraven001@hotmail.com
with a message listing your internet service provider (AOL, Netcom, etc) and your E-Mail adress. I will then reply to the e-mail with the story. I'm sorry but you are showing the tell tale signs of every one of wedgey's alias's, and I'm just doing my job as a mod. Hope you understand.

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Signature? I dont need no stinkin signature!



[This message has been edited by R.A.V.E.N. (edited November 16, 1999).]
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Old 11-17-1999, 06:32 AM   #4
Imladil
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I do have a very definite opinion to render here on the matter of video game violence!

Ahem. I believe that the so-called "first-person killer" games are highly DANGEROUS for younger children! It's because of the game's similarity to training methods that the military uses that I feel strongly about this...but I think that this is something that we're very much blind to because it's "just a game."

The human animal has an instinctive aversion to killing another of its own kind, unless the person is mentally ill...or has been trained out of it. You can short circuit the instinct by training yourself to fire at human-shaped silhouettes in combat situations...the kind of weapons training the military uses to train its troops. Unfortunately, The first person killer games do exactly the same thing!

The kids at Columbine High played exactly those kinds of games. They trained themselves to do the real thing, whether intentionally or not.

I'm not saying these games need to be banned. Responsible adults who have a firm grasp on right and wrong can play them all day without ill effect...but we do need to recognize that they are potentially harmful material (like pornography, the occult, etc.) and should not let our kids play with them like harmless toys.

Note: I think the street fighting, kung-fu type games are okay. It's simply not the same kind of unintentional behavior modification that the first-person killer games do. I think Rogue Squadron could get me in trouble, though, if I ever found myself at the controls of an F-16 over friendly territory...

My opinion of Wedgey? I twice suggested reconciliation on this forum, essentially sticking my neck out in the interest of making peace (which is the only way I ever get in trouble.) His response was to demand an apology from me. No, I don't have an opinion about Wedgey.

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"The entire universe is simply the fractal chaos boundary between intersecting domains of high and low energy."

--Imladil the Culinarian

"Am I in space yet?"

--Little Jimmy


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Old 11-17-1999, 08:55 PM   #5
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Since the previous post, I have discovered that "Little Vader" is in fact Wedgey!

Rogue Squadron...to the ships boys! Get him!

------------------
"The entire universe is simply the fractal chaos boundary between intersecting domains of high and low energy."

--Imladil the Culinarian

"Am I in space yet?"

--Little Jimmy


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Old 11-17-1999, 09:08 PM   #6
Lt Cracken
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<font size=10>STOP!!!!</font>
I WILL NO TOLERATE ACCUSATIONS OF THIS DEGREE ON THIS BOARD UNTILL I HAVE CONCLUSIVE EVIDENCE!!! NO ACCUSATIONS FROM NOW ON WILL BE MADE, AND ALL TALK WILL CEASE OF THIS ACCUSATION UNTILL I HAVE FOUND EVIDENCE!!! IF YOU HAVE A LEAD, E-MAIL ONE OF THE ADMINS, NOT HERE!!! UNDERSTAND!!!! NOW, QUIET!!!

------------------
Even if you dodge this, Kakarotto,
THIS PLANET'S GOING UP IN SMOKE!!

Vegeta, DragonBall Z

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Old 11-18-1999, 01:52 AM   #7
Conor
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I believe a mind has to be twisted already for videogames of any sort to negatively affect them.

If a person, like the Columbine killers, already has no respect for their own life or others', a game that involves killing humans may fuel their needs for destruction until the only way they can get thier fix is to actually start killing real people. At this point they do not care that one thing is real and the other is fantasy, life is irrelevant to them and it is all just a game.

The initial twisting comes not from videogames, but from an amoral society that slaughters millions of its most innocent members each year in abortion. The acceptance of abortion teaches people that if one group of humans is expendable and worthless, all humans are worthless.

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Right is right even if nobody is doing it, and wrong is wrong even if everybody is doing it.
-St. Augustine
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Old 11-18-1999, 02:13 AM   #8
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With all due respect, I must disagree with Imladil. Take no offense, as none is intended. Besides, isn't the internet's greatest feature the free expression of ideas and dialogue?

A video game, like almost everything else one encounters in life is purely nuetral. It is neither good nor evil in and of itself. The problem arises in the aplication.

I'll give you an example. All medical procedures are morally nuetral. Let's look sterilization. This procedure can be a terrific boon to a woman who's life would be in jeopardy if she were to become pregnant, or to a couple who has decided that they do not want children. On the other hand, one of the most vile things imaginable is eugenics; the forced sterilization of "undesirable" elements of the population. Same neutral medical procedure, two very different moral outcomes.

I think that we, as a society, have become acustomed to laying the blame for our own misdeeds at the feet of another. I think that's tragic. No video game, no movie, no book or play has the power to make anyone do anything. (Except perhaps to think.) There is above all else freewill. It is the trump card in the deck of life.

Comments or flames are welcome.





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Discontinue use if rash develops.

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Old 11-18-1999, 05:22 PM   #9
Little Vader
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Imaldi, I SWEAR I am NOT Wedgey.

As for your opinion, Imaldi and Batman, I agree to some of your points and disagree with others... isn't that what a debate is all about (not that this is a debate).

First off, Imaldi, I have to say that although gaming violence can effect young children (and OLD children), I think that its really the home these kids come from that make the difference. I myself do not like 1st person shooters, not because of the violence, but because they aren't realistic (except for Rainbow Six), and are often repeatitive. Don't take this harshly, Imaldi, I'm just disagreeing at that point.
Also, your claim that street fighting games are OK; I definitly have my OWN opinion on that. I see kids (while I'm driving to work) doing moves they see on WCW/NWO Rage (or something like that). I think that this leads them into "street fighting" on the streets. Like I said, Imaldi, debates are debates. Everyone has their own opinion.

Batman, well said! But in fact, the kids at the Columbine Tragedy did in fact play Doom, Quake, & other violent games of that sort. 0No, of course this was not their sole reason that they did what they did, but it played a small role (they were probably thinking of firing up that railgun). Batman, this isn't flame mail, but just my opinion on what you said.

<MARQUEE> <BEHVIOR=SLIDE ALLIGN=BOTTOM SCROLL=LEFT> DEBATE... DEBATE... DEBATE... </MARQUEE>

Did it work? Let's find out...




[This message has been edited by Little Vader (edited November 18, 1999).]
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Old 11-18-1999, 07:07 PM   #10
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The reason first-person shooter games are dangerous is because they desensitize the mind. These are the same games that they use in the military, to desensitize soldiers to the act of killing. They want soldiers to be able to kill at first sight, without hesitation, without a thought. And these games teach them to do that.
Here is a bit of psychology for you: did you know the brain cannot differentiate between reality and the imagined? So when you repeatedly hold up a gun up to shoot someone--even just in a video game--your brain catalogues every movement of your muscles, every sight, and every feeling. The more you do it, the more natural it becomes.
Did you also know: (I forget where this happened, sorry!) It was another high-school shooting. A boy who had never before picked up a real gun in his life went on a shooting spree. Eight shots fired. Eight people hit. More than 50% of those hits were shots in the head. And yes, he did play those first-person shootem games.
Now, I'm not saying these games should be banned, but I am saying that they need to played in moderation, and some people just shouldn't play them at all. Because, they do desensitize the mind.
I am not blaming the games for these shootings. Clearly these kids lives were already messed up. But they sure aren't helping.
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Old 11-18-1999, 07:41 PM   #11
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You may be right Lujayne, those games may desensitize people, but no more so than the news. That isn't what you described however, you described simple reflex training. Sure some of those games might make someone a better killer, but they don't make them kill.
If someone does decide to go on a killing rampage, playing lots of wargames will probably help them in that regard. Playing a videogame never forced anyone to do anything, anymore than a book would.

As far not being able to tell reality from fantasy, I don't believe it. At all.

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Right is right even if nobody is doing it, and wrong is wrong even if everybody is doing it.
-St. Augustine
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Old 11-18-1999, 07:43 PM   #12
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Also, I disagree with Batman that sterilization is a neutral procedure. It is a tragic one, always.

Sometimes it is necessary in order to save a woman's life, but the severing of the God-given ability to procreate is always a tradgedy, and unacceptable unless life is at stake.

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Right is right even if nobody is doing it, and wrong is wrong even if everybody is doing it.
-St. Augustine
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Old 11-18-1999, 07:58 PM   #13
Lujayne
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Smile

Conor, that's fact. It's a proven scientific fact (the brain/reality thing).
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Old 11-18-1999, 08:04 PM   #14
Conor
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First of all, no scientific idea can ever be proven. It violates the very basics of science.

Second, I still don't believe it, namely because I have proved it wrong with myself. I know very well what is fact and what is fantasy, namely because I am not constantly trying to cast magic at people.

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Right is right even if nobody is doing it, and wrong is wrong even if everybody is doing it.
-St. Augustine
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Old 11-18-1999, 08:05 PM   #15
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I guess I should expand on that.
You, as in your mind can tell the difference (I should hope!). But your brain as in the squishy grey stuff full of electrical impulses and what-nots, can't.
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Old 11-18-1999, 08:13 PM   #16
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Yes, my instincts, if that is what you are talking about, can be honed one way or another, but I can't think of a situation that something would be real and your brain would say otherwise.

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Right is right even if nobody is doing it, and wrong is wrong even if everybody is doing it.
-St. Augustine
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Old 11-18-1999, 09:57 PM   #17
Imladil
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Wow! I'm offline a day or so, and LOOK what develops! Interesting conversation. I must stick with my original ideas, though, and Lujayne does a good job of putting the danger in context.

I'm not saying that these games will always be harmful for young or unbalanced minds (which, unlike Conor, don't have a good sense of right and wrong)...just that they can desensitize the mind to its natural aversion to killing. I mean, everybody who goes through military training isn't going to put those skills to use...but there is always one or more who are going to climb that clock tower and take some people out!

I would not want to see these games banned...just that they be acknowledged within our society as a danger factor, and sold with that information clearly displayed. Parents should know that these games can make their children more efficient killers, that's all.

Actually, in this world, anything can be misused. Even a sheet of paper, in the right hands, can be a deadly weapon! So take my ideas here in perspective...

------------------
"The entire universe is simply the fractal chaos boundary between intersecting domains of high and low energy."

--Imladil the Culinarian

"Am I in space yet?"

--Little Jimmy


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Old 11-19-1999, 01:45 AM   #18
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Well, quite an interesting little discussion we've got going here. Boys and girls, are we expanding our minds? I approve most whole heartedly.
Conor, I hate to be the bearer of bad tidings but there is some truth to what Lujayne says. I'm sure that you've even had experiences in your own life that would bear this out. Who amongst us has never had a visceral response to a thought or dream? Does the term nocturnal emission ring any bells? The mind gives us a very real physical response to a dream (fantasy).

I also stand by my statement that sterilization is morally neutral. I think that you may have missed my point. In some cases (however rare you may think they should be) this procedure can be a literal lifesaver. What greater good can there be than to save a human life? The fact is that as a medical procedure it is, in and of itself neutral. The source of good or evil is in the application.

First person shooters (a genre which myself, my wife and our five childen enjoy) are also niether good nor evil. Again it is the application one needs concern one's self with. Our family loves a good fragfest of Quake2 on our LAN and yet we all understand and have a great respect for the sanctity of human life. We don't play all day, every day, again...application. To blame the tragedy of Columbine on Doom has got to be one of the silliest notions I've ever heard. What about the case of the day trader in Atlanta? Did he too play Doom and Quake for hours on end? No, to blame others for our own misdeeds is to minimize one of the greatest gifts that God has given us. Our agency.




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Discontinue use if rash develops.

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Old 11-19-1999, 02:16 AM   #19
fenix007
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Man... you guys are the most thoughtful people i've read.
LIke.. NOBODY has discussions like this..
take the starcraft forums...
what a joke.
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Old 11-19-1999, 03:36 AM   #20
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Wink

Fighter pilot philosophy, ma frien'!

"...We're taking heavy fire--!"



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"The entire universe is simply the fractal chaos boundary between intersecting domains of high and low energy."

--Imladil the Predator

"Ernie is my second cousin (E=MC2)"

--Little Jimmy

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Old 11-19-1999, 06:40 AM   #21
Fondas
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Very good points stated here ! I'm rather busy right know so I'll try to make it short.
I haven't studied psychology or human behavior, I'm not an expert on this matter but here's my opinion :
What exactly do you concider "Violence" in video games ?
1. Killing monsters in Quake 2 or Half Life ?
2. Extinguish other people in "military sims" like Hidden & Dangerous or Rainbow Six ?
3. Annihilating troops in RTS like Starcraft ,C&C or Age of Empires ?
4 Shooting another plane down or bombing convoys and facilities in Falcon 4.0 or F22 ADF ?
5. Running over helpless old ladies in Carmageddon ?

What I'm trying to say is that what really bother some people, is the ammount of (pixelized)gore that includes in it.
Lujayne said : "your brain catalogues every movement of your muscles, every sight, and every feeling. The more you do it, the more natural it becomes. "
Have any of you even squeesed a weapons trigger ? It's a totally different experience that Video Games ! Furthermore to aim and shoot a living being ! Why do you consider shooting a riffle blameworthy, while destroying a Tie fighter or a MiG 29 , along with their pilots, not ???
As for the part of military training, I have been trained to kill while I served , but I assure you that I don't run around shooting people !!! Does this mean that every trained commando on navy seal ,who are trained to kill with out second thought, are the main killers of our society ?
I don't want to expand to other influences, with media being the strongest, although I should !
That leads me to believe that you can't blame Video games for teaching or even customising kids to violence. Other factors cann push to such actions and ofcourse the person must have mental problems or be mentaly deranged.
What we can blame VG for is <u>stupidity</u>. For example, the Carmageddon series !
I can understand shooting Nazi's who want to enslave the world, or allien monsters that want to chew my head of, or fighterplanes that intend to make me a smoking hole in the ground, but run over pedestrials to collect bounus points..... !!!!!

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"So be it ...Jedi"
- Emperor Palpatine

[This message has been edited by Fondas (edited November 19, 1999).]
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Old 11-19-1999, 02:33 PM   #22
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If you start banning FPS games, then you need to start banning books, movies, shows, pictures, etc. etc. etc. A big ugly can of worms.

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...Like Ike, if I could be like Ike...

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Old 11-19-1999, 03:11 PM   #23
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In all respect, I believe steralization is a practice that is ok to be used, but not if it isn't needed fully. It's like abortion. Sometimes, women have to have the baby removed. Yes, it is their fault that they (I'm not going to continue on this, for the sake of our younger members)... well, anyways, let's get to the point here. Sometimes, mothers have to have their babies arborted because they cannot take proper care of the young child. If you look at it one way, its murder. If you look at it differently, its human.

Lujayne , I believe your post was excellent. But also, you must remember that humans have a natrual instinct to be supreme over others. Perhaps this child you mentioned had a bad life at home, or other teens mocked him or made fun of him at school. Sometimes, these kids and teens have mental problems, such as scyzopharnia-type things (not that these kids have scyzophrania), like manic depression or other problems. Maybe these teens are on drugs. There are so many vairables in this story you told (or any other story) other than gaming violence . But Lujayne, essintially you are correct.

Uhh... Batman, how old are these 5 kids in your family? How in the world can you manage? And to think, you all play Quake 2? Goodness, if you're going to do something, at least do it right! Unreal or Rainbow Six is a much better choice (however, I am often offended by the gore level in Unreal, but it is graphically spectactular!). Really, if these kids of yours are under 13 (which I hope at least one of them is, you shouldn't allow them to play games like Quake 2!

I never thought the gaming violence topic would cause such a stir...
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Old 11-19-1999, 07:22 PM   #24
Nute Gunray
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Arrow

I am not a violent person.
I would never kill another person unless it was in combat, which hopefully I will never see.
I play Rainbow Six with regularity. I will play Rogue Spear when I get it. My parents despise this game, due to it's realism. However, they allow me to play them because I don't abuse it or have fun with it. I don't use an invisiblity code to sneak up and shoot terrorists in the head for laughs.
I don't like the idea of seeing another human being die in front of me. I see a terrorist, or alien or mutant or whatever die and I know it's not real. I have the control over myself that I know that I cannot kill someone just because I killed a series of electronic polygons covered with electronic representations of a person.
I do believe that I have not been desensitized.
The flight simulators are very easy to rationalize. There isn't even the representation of a pilot. For all I know, it's a drone.

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Old 11-19-1999, 07:59 PM   #25
Ikhnaton
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So, because the parents are irresponsible, an innocent human has to be murdered? What is wrong with people today??

The baby shouldn't be punished, the parents should be.

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...Like Ike, if I could be like Ike...

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Old 11-19-1999, 08:21 PM   #26
Lt Cracken
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I believe that the human brain/mind is a wonderful, amazing thing.
Amazing thing is, that when we are children, we learn many of the thing we know, develop certain functions, like speech, and are HEAVELY influenced on the ENVIORMENT AROUND US!!
Now, I grew up in a nice enviorment, untill about the 3rd grade. then things got rather nasty at school. Picked on, laughed at, ect. I also watched alot of T.V. I first started playing FPS at the age of 9 or 10. I also had the fact that killing was wrong FIRMLY PLANTED INTO MY SKULL AT THE AGE OF 5 YEARS, AND CONTINUALLY AFTER!!!
Currently, I enjoy sitting infront of my PC, putting in Half-Life, and blasting those MP's and aliens away. I am also STILL picked on, though it is SEVERLY less harsh then it was in Elementary school. Does this mean I will kill? no, I KNOW that if I was faced in that situation, I'd be in the military. ONLY in the military. Do I plan to get into the military? NO.

Now, this is a classic case of some one that WOULD go on a rampage, but will I? NO!! why? He has all the signs!!
I'll tell ya why. GOOD PARENTING!!! I THANK my parents, and am eternally indebted to them (though sometimes I don't act like it....) that they had didn't slack off from teaching me right from wrong.
Now, if those rampage kids had gotten the correct parenting when they were kids, and counsling, and there parents saw the signs, I bet you, I bet you that that would have never happend. I bet ya.


------------------
Even if you dodge this, Kakarotto,
THIS PLANET'S GOING UP IN SMOKE!!

Vegeta, DragonBall Z

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Old 11-20-1999, 01:49 AM   #27
Conor
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Here is my view on abortion...

It is cold-blooded murder, unacceptable in any shape or form and can only be tolerated when it is certain the mother will die if she has the baby, and then it is still a tradgedy.

To put it simply, no one who supports abortion is any better than a Nazi. I will not retract that, I will not apologize. There is no excuse for killing an innocent human being, and babies are the most innocent of all humans.

Any one who believes the unborn human is not a baby is lying to himself. He is wrong, period. There can be no compromise, no 'choice' on this issue. The abortion holocaust is the biggest the human race has yet to implement. Satan gloats in triumph for every innocent baby that is ripped limb from limb with the abortionists vacuum, or partially born and then getting its brain sucked out.

Abortion is the worst thing the human race has yet to conceive. I don't care what anybody else says, murdering babies cannot be allowed, and those who run the industry will pay when they meet God.

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Right is right even if nobody is doing it, and wrong is wrong even if everybody is doing it.
-St. Augustine


[This message has been edited by Conor (edited November 19, 1999).]
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Old 11-21-1999, 04:21 AM   #28
Imladil
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Red face

Abortion! Oh, no, no, no...!

(Closes S-foils, pulls nose up and floors the mother.) Outta here!

Just discussing the killing of others in matters of self defense, I think that I can...and it has nothing to do with video games, or even my US Marine training. I could make the decision to kill and do so without hesitation, because I trust my own judgement.

Now, it would be easy to soften that up by saying that I would only do it under such and such conditions...but I recognize that making such a decision (weighing a human life) is one of the most difficult choices one can make, and I certainly don't want to be occupying my mind with that when my life or the lives of others are in danger. It HAS to be a snap judgement--there is no other way.

The door flies open, and a gunman charges into your living room. You happen to have your gun in hand, loaded...which means that you have one, maybe two seconds to point the gun and fire. You simply fire the gun, and hope that the individual charging in isn't other than an what he seems. You see...? Time to decide versus time to act--this is the dilemma the police are constantly facing.

I trust my judgement because I am healthy (sane) and pay very close attention to my own conscience. Most people can...those who can't are the people who should not own weapons...the mentally ill, criminals, etc.

They are also the people who should not be playing first person killer videogames. In my humble opinion, that is.

NOTE: The games I'm talking about here are the ones where the screen is the character's point of view, and there is a gun or crosshairs that you point and shoot at a human figure of some kind. I can't stress enough that my concern is because of the repetitive muscle-memory training that takes place, not the game's inherent violence.

------------------
"The entire universe is simply the fractal chaos boundary between intersecting domains of high and low energy."

--Imladil the Predator

"Ernie is my second cousin (E=MC2)"

--Little Jimmy

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Old 11-21-1999, 05:01 PM   #29
Little Vader
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Lightbulb

Guys, the real point here is that we all have so many opinions of our own on this topic, that it would be inplausible to create a fair way to deal with this problem. Humans always disagree, and until we all agree on something, its useless to make any restrictions or bans.
As far as Rogue Spear goes, I don't know what to think. There is hardly any gore in it, but, it is very realistic. Half-Life I think is an excellent game in some areas (besides TFC) like the fact that there is a content restrictor option. I'm not saying that Half-Life is the game of the angels, but its better than others.
The biggest change we can make in gaming violence is not to allow our kids and teens to play games rated "Mature" or even "Teen". Because, if our kids and teens are the future killers, whan we know who to point the finger at. Not the developers, not the publishers, not the ads, but us!


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LAL= Loud & Lethal
HBU= Heard but Ignored

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Old 11-22-1999, 01:20 AM   #30
Shootist
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First, I don't want to offend any of you. I just have a few questions.
I'm retired military. I've been in a few "hot" situations. Trust me, no matter what you're trained to do, when you get shot at or something goes BOOM, your FIRST instinct is to hit the ground in a fetal position. Then, and only then, do you begin to assess the situation and respond. Even with extensive training (mostly in real time, NOT computer generated) your first reaction is to do WHATEVER it takes to get out ALIVE! @#$@#$ what your military objectives are. If you happen to achieve it...glory? Where is the glory if your pals are goo? None.
As far as the disturbed people who have been actually carrying out these cowardly attacks, they have never seen what a real M-16 or AK-47 do to the human body. They do not have military backgrounds, nor would the military accept them.
Perhaps the point about putting the cross-hairs on a subject and poking a button has validity.
I strongly believe that if the game industry were to put in all the horrible sights, sickning sounds, skin-bubbling smells and total confusion of a real fire fight, people would play once and be totally sick and never que up a disc again.
The line between Playing something and Doing something, in my opinion, drawn somewhere in our life by those in positions of respect when we are young. That could be our parents, teachers, clergy, coaches, peers, television et al ad nauseum...
This is just MY opinion. I have fought to reserve my right to state it and will gladly fight again for you to have and state yours.


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Old 11-22-1999, 02:02 AM   #31
R.A.V.E.N.
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Well said Shootist.

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Old 11-22-1999, 04:09 AM   #32
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That's it, exactly!

The horror of the real thing (which I haven't and I pray will never see) is something these random killers know absolutely NOTHING about.

Up until the moment that first bullet hits, they still think they're on teevee. They think that killing is like the games...glory, music and fireworks.
Only now there's no music, no credits, someone's dead and it's too late to turn back now.

Most of us can distinguish between fantasy and reality. Unfortunately...some cannot, and in this day and age where handguns are easily available to gradeschool kids, those who want to be the Terminator can follow their diseased fantasies all the way to horrible reality!

When I was a kid, I was a real wimp when it came to horror movies. Gore, screaming, knives...I just didn't want any part of them. When I went through my USMC training as a field corpsman, I saw a simple fifteen minute film of footage taken from field hospitals in Viet Nam that completely changed my attitude. Now, I watch Starship Troopers and Saving Private Ryan, other films the like of which I never would have been able to stomache before...and they do not faze me one bit. The memory of what the real thing looked like has been enough to cure me forever. It's that horrible.

Salutes to Shootist. Hell, to anyone who's been through that in real life.

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"The entire universe is simply the fractal chaos boundary between intersecting domains of high and low energy."

--Imladil the Predator

"Ernie is my second cousin (E=MC2)"

--Little Jimmy

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Old 11-22-1999, 05:48 AM   #33
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Well said Shootist !
That is exactly what I was talking about! Even though I haven't seen real action, which I trully hope not to, I've taken part in several drills with live ammunition. Even though those bullets hadn't had my name written on it, the whistling sound of a bullet passing close to you is frightening !
I repeat : There is no video game that can prepear a <u>sane</u> person for the real thing !
There is no save/load option, no invulnerability, no quad damage and most of all , NO medi kits!

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Old 11-22-1999, 08:19 PM   #34
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...WHich many kids may think. Kids who are not taught the difference between reality and games,tv,movies, can and may belive the "glory" of killing, or the music, lights, ect. THAT is what worries me about our youth. Are our parents too busy tring to make money to keep a house, food, ect to teach us right from wrong? Some are.
Well, how do we fix that?
1)Lower taxes.
Then parents/adults don't have to work so hard to make the $$ it takes to live.
2)Cut inflation.
It's hard, but it can be done.
3)Reteach adults HOW to be parents
Unforutnatly, most-some parents USE t.v and games as a baby-sitter, rather than pay there children any mind, and there's the problem. other parents have no will power and juust turn there kids into spoiled brats. we need parenting classes now, and for the future.

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THIS PLANET'S GOING UP IN SMOKE!!

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Old 11-23-1999, 12:53 AM   #35
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Howdy folks, the Soap Box Shootist strikes again. Lt. C. nice thought, however, sometimes throwing more money at a problem just feeds the fire. I applaud your third suggestion, there are too many emotional children raising kids today.
I promise to leave the podium to you folks.
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Old 11-23-1999, 02:21 AM   #36
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What really shocked me one time is I was wathcing 'America's Most Wanted' and they had this special segment on teen violence. They got a bunch of kids (mostly early teens) that played violent first person videogames (mostly goldeneye) and showed them what bullets actually do to people.

the results were amazing. Most of them didn't even know bullets ripped huge bleeding wounds upon exiting. They honestly had no idea of real life violence. I wouldn't be surprised if some of them thought they couldn't be killed! I've always been pretty certain of what war looks like, if not the emotional aspect, but these kids knew nothing.

How are people supposed to know the difference between games and reality if they don't know what reality is in the first place?

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Old 11-23-1999, 04:24 AM   #37
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Well, speaking just for myself, I keep the distinction between games and reality as loose as possible! I mean, this is reality, where we're really talking about a game...but I'm certainly playing games, and the game we're talking about has just as much physical reality as this whole forum does.

I am totally confused. Which me is real?

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--Imladil the Fortunate

"You can lead a horse to water, but you have to be strong and determined if you want to drown that sucker."

--Little Jimmy


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Old 11-23-1999, 07:50 PM   #38
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Good point. Which personality is the real one? HERE, I'm very out going, social, ect.
But in R/L, I'm kinda quiet, not as crazy as I'm am here. I think this is because of prior experiences with society, (Not very nice ones, either) and that in R/L, I'm not very comfortable around large crowds of people. It's a natural dis-trust for others, I guess.
But here, I'm very open. probably because..
1) I'm not judged on how I look. (Like my generation does)
2) You all never shunnened me, like certain people I know.. *cough*my generation*cough*
3) You where always accepting my ideas, and likes, and dislikes. Un-like a certain generation I know...

*sniff* THANK YOU!!

Ahem, anyways...... uh.....
BARGH!!!
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Old 11-23-1999, 09:24 PM   #39
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Well....I think that mature kids(like me) can play alittle system shock or Half - life. Yknow the kids who really know how horrible anddisgusting war really is. Otherwise,shouldnot play FPS. Heck, I'm a kid mself.
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Old 11-24-1999, 03:26 AM   #40
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I'll let you in on a little secret, cz24...you never really do stop being a kid. At least, not if you're going to be happy in life...

I never totally bought the violence in/violence out theory of bad teevee influence. I mean, the Bugs Bunny and Roadrunner cartoons I watched when I was a kid were WORSE than the violence we're talking about on video games, because they make the violence funny (which, of course, eliminates the suffering aspect)...yet I've never been violent in my whole life.

--On people, that is! I do smack things around in the backyard with swords, but I think that kind of release is healthy instead of bad. Today's world is so stressful on us arboreal primates that it triggers our bodily stress reactions. If we don't do something with that excess energy, it goes right in between your shoulderblades and makes your back crumple.

So...next time life has you by the...well, collar, try hanging an old bike frame from a tree in the backyard and whack it with a stick. You'll feel better, no matter how old you are!

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"The entire universe is simply the fractal chaos boundary between intersecting domains of high and low energy."

--Imladil the Fortunate

"You can lead a horse to water, but you have to be strong and determined if you want to drown that sucker."

--Little Jimmy


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