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Old 03-01-2002, 01:47 PM   #1
StormHammer
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Unofficial transcript of Raven chat...

Okay, people, here are the key points that were raised... I'll leave out the fluff... This is a work in progress, which I will be updating constantly in this post...so bear with me, people.

Key to Contributors

Kenn H = Kenn Hoekstra (Raven)
Steve R = Steve Raffel (Raven)
Graham F = Graham Fuchs? (Activision)
Kevin S = Kevin Schilder (Raven)


Here's some of the first Q's and A's...

Question 1

TUS_Tomcat: Will there be a demo, and if so, when can we expect it, and what will be in it (single player level (from the game?), multiplyaer, bots, etc.) ?

Kenn H: We're looking at all of out options for a demo right now. It's going to depend on our production schedule and how our dev team is going to be divided up after JK2 goes gold. We're still looking at everything and we'll make a decision and go from there soon.

Question 2

Red3StandingBy: What are the odds we'll see some options to play as prequel-era Jedi in MP?

Kenn H: I'm afraid the current timeline for JK2 doesn't allow for Episode 1 characters...JK2 takes place about 12 years after ROTJ.

Graham F: not in our game I'm afraid. You can make your own Obi skin for MP if you want.

Question 3

serylcann: Will there be a Linux dedicated server? If so, when?

Graham F: We are looking into it.

Question 4

JuryDuty: How much playtime will this game have compared to JK?

Kevin S: That's pretty hard to say for sure. JKII is plenty long

Kenn H: It's a pretty big game....24 huge (I'm talking huge levels...Eight missions... Big MP

Question 5

StormHammer: Having seen the recent video footage...why do some of the enemies fly across the room when hit by the lightsaber?

Kenn H: It looks cool!

Question 6

Naval Trooper: Can we tip over gonk droids?

Kenn H: There is much Gonk abuse to be had by all...

Steve R: No, but you can get battery power from them.

Question 7

zakath: How are the clipping bugs handled, will the weapons sink into the walls or will they 'scrape' it, and what about bodies? Will they leave hanging on the edges by their feet, or will they fall realistically down?

Kenn H: Quake physics has always been tough when it comes to clipping...especially when it comes to 'dead' enemies and how their physics works. We've done out best to limit it as much as possible, but I don't thik we can ever get rid of it 100%.

Question 8

SnakeEyes: I read that some levels have been lifted out of previous dark forces - have these been modified at all or will they be ovious to those of us who played the DF2? And roughly how many hours of gameplay will the average user get out of the new game?

Kevin S: Can't believe everything you read.
Kenn H: None of the SP levels were taken from Dark Forces or the original JK...
Kevin S: We did one MP map based on a level from a previous game

Question 9
MorbidAngel: How does JKII do in terms of performance compared to other Q3 engined games out on the market? Using standard quality settings, is it more demanding than other Q3 engined games we've all played, or is this the new CPU/GPU sucking king?

Kenn H: JK2 runs like a dream
Graham F: Our minimum system requirements are close to QIII Arena.

Question 10

3headedmonkey: Will we meet Mara Jade?

Kevin S: Mara who?
Kenn H: No Mara this time around...
Graham F: Her agent wanted too much money

(More to follow...)
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Old 03-01-2002, 01:50 PM   #2
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It seems very uninteresting


The force will betray you to me.
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Old 03-01-2002, 01:52 PM   #3
Agen
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So you mean that there arent any charecters out of the itmelien even in MP?
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Old 03-01-2002, 01:52 PM   #4
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Excellent

It had degenerated to something akin to the lower levels of Coruscant when I got there

Thanks Storm
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Old 03-01-2002, 01:55 PM   #5
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Wouldn't it figure the only skin I wanted for multiplayer was prequel era Jedi.

Lightsaber battles with Jedi, and no skin of a Jedi in Jedi Robes. Awesome.



"Französische Schülerinnen schiessen besser!"
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Old 03-01-2002, 02:15 PM   #6
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Re: Unofficial transcript of Raven chat...

Quote:
Originally posted by StormHammer
TUS_Tomcat: Will there be a demo, and if so, when can we expect it, and what will be in it (single player level (from the game?), multiplyaer, bots, etc.) ?

Kenn H: We're looking at all of out options for a demo right now. It's going to depend on our production schedule and how our dev team is going to be divided up after JK2 goes gold. We're still looking at everything and we'll make a decision and go from there soon.
That should silence any pre-release demo speculations.
Good enough for me, going gold is all Raven should be caring about right now IMO.

Quote:
Red3StandingBy: What are the odds we'll see some options to play as prequel-era Jedi in MP?

Kenn H: I'm afraid the current timeline for JK2 doesn't allow for Episode 1 characters...JK2 takes place about 12 years after ROTJ.

Graham F: not in our game I'm afraid. You can make your own Obi skin for MP if you want.
Outstanding, when playing JO I can pretend Ep I never happened.

Quote:
serylcann: Will there be a Linux dedicated server? If so, when?

Graham F: We are looking into it.
LEC/Raven would be fools to not release any Linux binaries.


BTW, it's nice to see StormHammer making himself useful rather than wasting his time on a competing developer's forum arguing with some brainwashed zealot about a game that will never see the light of day anyway.
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Old 03-01-2002, 02:27 PM   #7
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Re: Re: Unofficial transcript of Raven chat...

Quote:
Originally posted by X-Vector
BTW, it's nice to see StormHammer making himself useful rather than wasting his time on a competing developer's forum arguing with some brainwashed zealot about a game that will never see the light of day anyway.
ROFL I try my best.
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Old 03-01-2002, 03:08 PM   #8
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Hmmm wonder what that MP level will be that's based on one from a previous game?
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Old 03-01-2002, 05:44 PM   #9
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A-ha... the 'more to come' has arrived...

Quote:
JuryDuty: How much playtime will this game have compared to JK?

Kevin S: That's pretty hard to say for sure. JKII is plenty long

Kenn H: It's a pretty big game....24 huge (I'm talking huge levels...Eight missions... Big MP
Bliss

Quote:
StormHammer: Having seen the recent video footage...why do some of the enemies fly across the room when hit by the lightsaber?

Kenn H: It looks cool!
Ugh... No, it doesn't - it looks ridiculous... I'm quite disappointed about this - what possessed them to make it have that awful effect?

Quote:
Naval Trooper: Can we tip over gonk droids?

Kenn H: There is much Gonk abuse to be had by all...

Steve R: No, but you can get battery power from them.


That's more like it! Glad to see Kenn's a gonk-hater
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Old 03-01-2002, 07:37 PM   #10
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Here are some more...while the forums are working...

Question 11

TDogg: Kyle's saber is now blue instead of the yellow one in JK. Is the new color connected to the story, is it a mistake, or did you just wanna make it that way?

Kenn H: It's connected to the story. All will become clear soon...

Question 12

makrill: I was wondering about the poly amount on those storm trooper helmets. I like the bodies byt the helmets look a bit round? And why isn't the hands visible on the blaster carbine?

Graham F: I'm guessing it will look much better on your machine than in the tiny movie you downloaded.

Question 13

mista: why did you choose the Q3:TA engine over other alternatives? Did you encounter the same problems with map size as you did with elite force?

Kenn H: Q3:TA was (and still is) the best FPS engine on the market. We had a lot of experience with it because of EF and SOF2.... Map sizes are much bigger now because of id's engine improvements for TA and beyond.
Graham F: Raven has been working with the Quake technology for some time now, so they can really make it sing. And once and for all, there was no "problem with map size" on EF. Raven recreated the interiors of ST ships according to the license.

Question 14

JuryDuty: As developers, what type of controller do you all recommend for maximum fun in this one? Keyboard, jostick, mouse?

Kenn H: KB + Mouse
Kevin S: I would say KB + mouse will work best
Kenn H: Three button wheel mouse, preferably...

Question 15

Red3StandingBy: Another quick question about saber colors. Lucas has recently announced that the only saber colors he considedrs are blue and green for the good guys and red for the Sith, with the possible exception of purple for Mace Windu. In terms of staying true to the spirit of the films, has this statement affected your decision to let characters to choose their own saber colors for MP?

Graham F: You can choose your own lightsaber color in MP.

Question 16

clapton is go: does Lucasarts restrict what you can and cannot do?

Graham F: As with any license we keep to the spirit of the universe.

Question 17

StormHammer: When using Force Persuasion in MP...does your character disappear from your own screen, like in the original JK, or are you just invisible to other players>

Graham F: You are just invisible to other players. It's quite a surprise for them.
Kenn H: I saw it in MP the other day and thought I was 'seeing things'

Question 18

serylcann: Will we be able to play with models that are different sizes and shapes (like Yoda or Jabba)?

Kevin S: There is some difference in the scale of the characters, but they are all pretty much 'humanoid' in size.
Kenn H: I'll bet modders could find a way to get Yoda in there.

Question 19

Roger: Will it be easy for mod makers to create new MP games modes? Will there be some kind of support for the mod community by Raven or Lucasarts?

Kenn H: JK2 is as mod-able as Q3:TA and EF...
Kenn H: I don't know how you define 'support', but if there's anything we can do, be it iin out spare time or otherwise, we'll certainly try.

Question 20

belgirion: I remember reading somewhere about driveable vehicles...can you explain this a bit more?

Graham F: Yes we can and no we won't. Buy the game!

(more to follow...)
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Old 03-01-2002, 07:38 PM   #11
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And the last bunch...

Question 21

mista: the saber movements look very smooth on the movies we've seen...how bad will lag effect their accuracy on multiplay?

Graham F: No more or less than any other weapon.

Question 22

l33tjedi: does the game have the same cast for cutscenes, as with JK? Same actor for Kyle? Or will cutscenes be rendered using the ingame engine?

Kenn H: We have a mix of in-game and pre-rendered cinematics....pre-rendered cinematics are more for ships and fly-bys, etc., not for live actors.

Kevin S: We have different actors

Question 23

SolidSnake: I noticed in a FAQ, that y mentioned that u used SoftImage for the characters and 3DS Max for the other stuff... If one has these programs, will they be able to edit JK2 right out of the box? Or will they require some additional software?

Graham F: You will need a radiant editor to mod the game. You can't mod it out of the box.
Kenn H: Animation will require plug-ins, etc., most likely. It's the most difficult thing to do in the mod process because of all the transfer of information back and forth between Max/SoftImage/Maya and all the other anim packages out there. Someone could probably get Milkshape to work with it...

Question 24

Drew Carey: How complex is the damage system for the environment. Will I be able to knock parts of buildings and structures by waving my saber or perhaps shooting them?

Kevin S: Certain things are destroyable, but you can't just wreck everything in sight.

Question 25

Atomicone: What about violence? are you gonna show blood in the game?

Kevin S: No blood in Star Wars
Kenn H: Keep in mind that JK2 is a T rated game.

Question 26

grumpycrab: Raven...can you complete the SP game without the lightsaber? I suspect not, in which case, what's the minimum amount of lightsaber use needed in the game?

Kenn H: Nope.... the saber is necessary to finish the game. And you'll need to use it quite a bit.
Graham F: That being said about the saber, you can play the entire game with just weapons if you want to, but there are definitely some situations where the saber would be your best way through.

Question 27

Impi: Will there be some Thief-like missions?

Kevin S: It would be wise to be a little more 'stealthy' in some situations.

Question 28

Lord Chief: To what extent will players be able to chop up Stormtroopers etc. Will we be able to chop off the arms and hands of Stormtroopers and what will the effect be on them? Will they die or just run away in pain?

Kevin S: I wouldn't want to give away what enemies will do in the game. I think you'll have to play it and see.

Question 29

Red3StandingBy: You've established that MP players can choose their own saber colours. What about hilts? Or will hilts be visible enough to matter...?

Kevin S: By the time you look at your saber hilt, you are dead.

Question 30

JVS: Will there be official updates/patches including new models/skins?

Kenn H: Official updates/patches remains to be seen. Depends on our scheduling and the need for them, etc.

Question 31

cat in the hat: Some games live or die by the quality of the voice acting and the script. How much time was spent on those areas?

Kenn H: JK2 has a great cast.
Kevin S: We spend a good amount of time deliberating about the story and script. I think it turned out well.

Question 32

DemiDemon: Could you guys give us a brief summary on the first level we'l encounter in JK2?

Graham F: There are a lot of Stormtroopers and you must kill them.

Question 33

hugopereira: What kind of online piracy control will you guys use? Will you do the same as id software with RTCW and include a CDKEY and ban public CDKEYs as they come along?

No answer...

Question 34

madrebel: question about the seeking 'rockets' are they UBER seekers? Or can they be shaken by some tricky jedi moves?

Kenn H: Force Push, baby...

Question 35

scubactor: Are there any plans for an expansion pack in the works?

Graham F: How about we finish the main game first.

Question 36

TDogg: Must we kill every enemy in sight in JK2 or is it possible to take their weapons away and leave them alone?

Kevin S: I think that is one of the things you will have to deiscover as you play the game.

Question 37

geebus: How close are you guys to going gold?

kevin S: Very close.

Question 38

clapton is god: on-line cheating. How much can developers hinder it?

Kenn H: You can never stop cheating 100%, but the pure server option in Q3 is a good step in the right direction. PLaying online with friends or clans or other trusted people also helps tremendously.

Question 39

ps2maddenman: The famous 'wall-walk' has been likened to the Matrix by many fans, was this actually the inspiration in this move?

Kevin S: We saw someone here at Raven do it and thought it would look cool in the game. heh.
Kenn H: wall walking was in movies before the Matrix. We thought it would be a cool feature. Don't know what officially inspired it, though...

Question 40

David3k: Will JK2 have the Double-bladed lightsaber for MP

Graham F: No

Question 41

Obi: As far as the voice acting goes, have you called back any of the actors from the original JK to reprise their roles and voice overs?

Kenn H: I believe the voice cast is all new.
Kevin S: Yep. New actors.

Question 42

Red3StandingBy: How come Kyle hasn't changed clothes in all these years?

Kenn H: Kyle's a savant.

Question 43

madrebel: Will there be a Boba Fett model/skin in the MP game?

Kenn H: No Boba Fett. He died in Jedi and this is 12 years later...

Question 44

Atomicone: How often will we see time slow down as the camera orbits the fighting players? Can we make it do this? At what points is it most likely for this to happen?

Kenn H: You can turn that on and off in the menus.

Question 45

StormHammer: Will the environments include weather effects such as rain, snow, wind and slippery ice?

Kenn H: There are environmental effects like Rain and Fog, yes...

That's about it, people.

Enjoy.
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Old 03-01-2002, 07:45 PM   #12
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Rain and Fog!! That's gonna look awesome!

Very close to going gold!!


----Whatever hits the fan will not be evenly distributed----
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Old 03-01-2002, 08:02 PM   #13
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madrebel: Will there be a Boba Fett model/skin in the MP game?

Kenn H: No Boba Fett. He died in Jedi and this is 12 years later...


WRONG
boba fett didnt die he survived and even met a jedi while in that thing, theres a whole book about how he escapes and stuff.


To know the light, You must see the dark.
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Old 03-01-2002, 08:02 PM   #14
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no Boba Fett?? nooooooooooooooooo!!!! He's the only MP character i ever used!
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Old 03-01-2002, 08:04 PM   #15
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Look, he officially died. George Lucas and many fans don't care about EU material. If GL didn't write it, it didn't happen.


----Whatever hits the fan will not be evenly distributed----
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Old 03-01-2002, 08:05 PM   #16
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Quote:
Naval Trooper: Can we tip over gonk droids?

Kenn H: There is much Gonk abuse to be had by all...

Steve R: No, but you can get battery power from them.
Yep, those gonks are gonna dish out the abuse to you hapless players.

Serves you right!


Insert a witty and thought-provoking quote here, I can't think of any.
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Old 03-01-2002, 08:20 PM   #17
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Re: Unofficial transcript of Raven chat...

Quote:
Originally posted by StormHammer



Question 8

SnakeEyes: I read that some levels have been lifted out of previous dark forces - have these been modified at all or will they be ovious to those of us who played the DF2? And roughly how many hours of gameplay will the average user get out of the new game?

Kevin S: We did one MP map based on a level from a previous game
Lemme guess....Canyon Oasis? ^.^
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Old 03-01-2002, 08:27 PM   #18
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Quote:
That should silence any pre-release demo speculations.
Not exactly
The demo doesnt need to be recorded on CDs, put into boxes and sent to the stores.
They can go gold, then make the demo and release it for download before the game is available

About the batsaber...
We will get used to it after some time I guess

Including only characters from the SP timeline in MP is ridiculous
There will be Mon Mothmas fragging around but no BF or Mace Windu?
I dont care much anyway, because they will be available soon after the release
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Old 03-01-2002, 08:34 PM   #19
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Yeah, it will be sad to see that Pre-Rebellion characters won't be skins in MP, but the way I look @ it, what it could mean is a good amount EU skins, like Jedis from the New Jedi Order Series and many more.


"The ability to do a thing is not all there is. You must know the thing. You must master every facet of it. You must understand how it fits with everything else you know. You must possess it for it to be truly yours."

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Old 03-01-2002, 08:40 PM   #20
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Quote:
StormHammer: Having seen the recent video footage...why do some of the enemies fly across the room when hit by the lightsaber?

Kenn H: It looks cool!

Ehhck, not really, but I guess I really shouldn't complain.

I just like how in JK when you killed someone with a saber you "struck them down".
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Old 03-01-2002, 09:45 PM   #21
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Quote:
Kenn H: No Boba Fett. He died in Jedi and this is 12 years later...
NOOOOOO!! Boba Fett lived! He used a rocket to blow it up and then Dengar and that Lady (think her name was Neelah) found him and brought him back to health. Maybe they'll have a Mandalor skin though


Also It's never stated in the movies that Fett actually died in sarlaac's stomach

"It's a conspiracy! One big damn conspiracy! And everyone's in on it!!!!!!"
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Old 03-01-2002, 09:48 PM   #22
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Can you say 'oooh'?

By the way, this is Scav//Kestral, the Super-Computer with some major modifications.

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Old 03-01-2002, 09:49 PM   #23
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But that means that the demo is coming out after the game goes gold. (he said that after it goes gold they'll split up the dev team). What's the point? It'd take time to make it and then upload it everywhere... by that time it'll be like 2-3 days before the full game comes out....... Damn..... I'll still download it.
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Old 03-01-2002, 09:52 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally posted by Belgirion
NOOOOOO!! Boba Fett lived! He used a rocket to blow it up and then Dengar and that Lady (think her name was Neelah) found him and brought him back to health. Maybe they'll have a Mandalor skin though
I think it started with an 'M', actually.

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Old 03-01-2002, 10:09 PM   #25
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lol much gonk abuse... thats great


thanks for that stormy... theres some great stuff in there. we all appreciate it.


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Old 03-01-2002, 10:15 PM   #26
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Leave it to Kenn Hoekstra to say clauses likes 'It looks cool!' and 'There's much gonk abuse to be had' in an interview. Comic relief, ai menu!

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Old 03-01-2002, 10:52 PM   #27
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Thanks for taking the time, StormHammer.

Can't say I appreciate responses like they gave to your question here:

Quote:
StormHammer: Having seen the recent video footage...why do some of the enemies fly across the room when hit by the lightsaber?

Kenn H: It looks cool!
Simple enough, sure, except everyone knows the real reason that was asked is because we think they are avoiding dismemberment by using the lightsaber as a powerful baseball bat. I bet they knew this too, and it would have been nice if we could see it answered straight up. Answers given that emphasize that they are in a position of power and hint at the questions being silly get on my nerves.

Quote:
Kevin S: There is some difference in the scale of the characters, but they are all pretty much 'humanoid' in size.
Kenn H: I'll bet modders could find a way to get Yoda in there.
Can't say I enjoy the 'We don't have it but you can mod it!' answers that cover up for lack of a sensible thing. We can mod lots of things but that has jack didly to due with what you should (if I can so say without being arrogant) be providing us.

Quote:
StormHammer: Will the environments include weather effects such as rain, snow, wind and slippery ice?

Kenn H: There are environmental effects like Rain and Fog, yes...
I hope those aren't all the effects. Why do I get the feeling that these weren't just examples picked from a larger group of effects?

Finally, I'm never satisfied with chats like these, and that might always be the case. It is just the way of things. I don't think JO is headed on a downward spiral or anything. And I'd rather have a mediocre chat than none at all.
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Old 03-01-2002, 11:02 PM   #28
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Very big thx to Stormhammer, for getting all this down and to thoughs who asked the questions.
damm, dinner burning....


Dieu me pardonnera. C'est son motier. (God will forgive me. It's his job.)
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Old 03-01-2002, 11:54 PM   #29
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It's possible that Boba Fett died and still showed up in Dark Empire. Once we all see Episode 2 we'll see why...

Or maybe it's Jodo Kast.
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Old 03-01-2002, 11:57 PM   #30
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Yeah, I kinda figured about the new cast.

Vanessa Marshall is going to play the part of Jan (from what I heard) which is good because she did well with the voice acting in MGS2.
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Old 03-01-2002, 11:57 PM   #31
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hmmm, yes, i am betting it will be canyon oasis. if they didnt do it, there would be a EU version out within days....

I am also betting that it won't take long for someone to make empire nightclub either.

and their staying power will be doomed to failure if they dont release a linux server... should release binaries for a client also in fact, as I'm sure there are plenty of quakin linux geeks who would love to play jk2 on their fav OS. but at the very least, they need a linux server, as most servers that can be hosted as dedicated on nice phat pipes run off of linux.

or do they think we should be doomed to small games on cable modems? bleh.

kev
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Old 03-01-2002, 11:57 PM   #32
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Argh! I wish they'd screen these people. I mean really, why does there have to be 4 questions on saber colour? Seems like many questions were wasted and we ended up learning almost nothing.
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Old 03-01-2002, 11:58 PM   #33
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JK2 is EU. Boba Fett lives in the EU. Nuff said.

Their disrespect for EU/official traits is rather disturbing...like lack of saber shadows, etc...not that it'll make much difference ingame, since at least it looks like they picked up books like the Guide to Weapons and Technology...but the attitude is still worrying...

I thought Kenn H was an EU fan...


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Old 03-02-2002, 12:08 AM   #34
Redwing
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Quote:
Originally posted by Rat Boy
It's possible that Boba Fett died and still showed up in Dark Empire. Once we all see Episode 2 we'll see why...

Or maybe it's Jodo Kast.
No, it isn't. I forget the name of the book, but Fett escaping the Sarlacc was described. His armor protected him long enoguh to get out. Thusly, it's not Jodo Kast. As for Episode Two...

---SPOILERS---


5


4


3


2


1


Boba Fett is the only clone who ages normally. So it is not one of the other clones of Jango Fett from Ep 2.


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Old 03-02-2002, 12:14 AM   #35
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I'd call that entire short story into question after the whole "Jaster Mareel" angle got thrown out the window with AOTC. Might be another example of the legend of Boba Fett...

...speaking of legends, Boba must have done far more interesting stuff than Jango, since you never "heard" of Jango before.

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Old 03-02-2002, 12:22 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally posted by Rúmil
Leave it to Kenn Hoekstra to say clauses likes 'It looks cool!' and 'There's much gonk abuse to be had' in an interview. Comic relief, ai menu!
Another name Medic?

i think you have the most account on LucasForum...


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Old 03-02-2002, 01:06 AM   #37
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Cool. Can't wait.


My dream, to watch Imperial ships explode in my gunsights.
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Old 03-02-2002, 02:00 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally posted by WD_ToRMeNt
Argh! I wish they'd screen these people. I mean really, why does there have to be 4 questions on saber colour? Seems like many questions were wasted and we ended up learning almost nothing.
Totally....half of those questions were already answered on the lucasarts website. These people are presumably fans of the game and have at least visited the official site once or twice.
(I do it 30 times a day)
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Old 03-02-2002, 03:03 AM   #39
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Bah.. only thing these guys are forgetting is that Kyle Katarn and Dark Forces are PART OF THE EU and like it or not.. in the EU Boba Fett lives (or at least somebody in his armor.. hehe).

That said, they are basically just making it up as they go along, and that's perfectly fine. Makes sure it isn't predictable. The part about "no blood in star wars" and "this is a T rated game" as we know, aren't 100% either.

Just picking some nits... ; )


Arrrggg, we're stuck with the boring blue saber, noooo!



Quote:
Not exactly
The demo doesnt need to be recorded on CDs, put into boxes and sent to the stores.
They can go gold, then make the demo and release it for download before the game is available
Technically they still need demo discs for magazines, but I'm sure the mags will burn those themselves. LEC/Raven can just distribute the big files and leave it at that. Plus they can grab stuff directly from the full game, so a demo should go pretty quickly once the game is done. The question is, will the demo hit the servers before the game itself hits the shelves? But, even if the game hits the shelves first, it's still a good idea to do a demo, for those who don't buy the game right away, but want a sampling of the gameplay first before they shell out the dough.
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Old 03-02-2002, 04:16 AM   #40
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Kinda disappointed about those MP skins... The way they're talking, there's no Boba Fett, no Ep 1 Jedi's, no Darth Maul or Vader... S**t.
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