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Old 04-13-2002, 02:36 PM   #1
pinkpanther718
 
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Idea about Area of Effect weapons vs. Saberists

Ok, I'e noticed that one main problem in the current game is the use of Area of Effect weapons against Jedi (saber only people). Every gunner I've seen dominating a game, and it happens a lot now days, uses Area of Effect weapons like the repeater secondary fire to dominate those who choose sabers and force only. One way I think this could be more balanced is to make force push an intergrated defense power. Keep it as normal old force push taht you can use at your deiscretion as well. But also make it intergrated, perhaps make it more to get full saber defense? and when an area of effect weapon is fired at the jedi, if he is facing it it will automatically be foce pushed away. The reason I think this would be good is that a real Jedi would have much better reflexes than us human players, this can be seen by the way he can deflect laser bolts with the saber. So by making the player have to hit a button to push shots away, the game steers away from what would actually happen if somethin was shot at a Jedi. This wold IMO balance the game more, and make it more realistic as far as the Star Wars universe is concerned.
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Old 04-14-2002, 12:30 AM   #2
pinkpanther718
 
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No comments, anyone? Good idea, ****ty idea?
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Old 04-14-2002, 12:33 AM   #3
RabidPlatypus
 
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i think that's a good idea, but I think you should be able to bind a key to toggle auto push on and off in case you don't want to waste power.
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Old 04-14-2002, 07:27 AM   #4
Chewie Bakker
 
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Automatic Force Push

Why not? I'm pretty sure in SP it auto-pushed against pull/push.



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Old 04-14-2002, 07:39 AM   #5
arctic_series
 
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the thing is, it's only the repeater rifle that's being *****d. all the other weapons are easily countered.

if they put a longer delay on the alt fire on that heavy repeater rifle then it'll be all good.

go and check it out for yourselves, every gunner who is coming first uses only the alt fire on the repeater rifle.
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Old 04-14-2002, 07:43 AM   #6
Ono-Sendai
 
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Lightbulb disruptor splash isn't that bad...

Since the splash isn't too powerful, I just pull the weapon out of his hands. If I'm in an ironic mood, I might even use it against him...
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Old 04-14-2002, 12:29 PM   #7
arctic_series
 
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Re: disruptor splash isn't that bad...

Quote:
Originally posted by Ono-Sendai
Since the splash isn't too powerful, I just pull the weapon out of his hands. If I'm in an ironic mood, I might even use it against him...
pull doesn't work all the time mate. if you don't get the gun after 2 pulls you're good as dead.
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Old 04-14-2002, 12:38 PM   #8
bkbroiler
 
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why don't you....

If your getting beat by area effect weapons, why not get out your own repeater and blow the guy out of the water? Then you can take your saber out again. Or, you don't even have to put it away! Grip him, and toss him off a ledge! Zap him with lightning! Or just chuck your saber at 'em. My point is, there are many ways to counter a little "problem" like this. Use them!

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Old 04-14-2002, 12:53 PM   #9
D4RK^FL4ME
 
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Yea, of course there are many ways to counter a gunner, but all the gunner has to do is point at you and click once or twice, you have to go thorugh all the trouble of stopping your sabering with someone else, turning around, getting in range of a pull, etc.

Its way easier for a gunner to kill than a jedi to counter. Thats why i stick exclusively to Saber and force only servers.
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Old 04-14-2002, 01:03 PM   #10
Joruus
 
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Jedi Class = Has Force Powers

Armsman Class = Has no Force Powers

Simple solution. Each has his own powerful weapons as his disposal.

Heres the deal. The reason this is such an issue is because the multiplayer jedi, that restricts himself to purist jedi play, is denying himself one of the tools of the game...which is the guns. Thats fine if thats what your going to do. But the problem with it is that a gunner is using all the tools, his saber, the guns, and force powers.

So when a gunner attacks, and a Jedi whips out his trump card, his force powers, the gunner merely counters with his own, over powering the jedi player fully through the jedi players refusal to use guns as well.

If there were classes in the current MP game, you'd have a balance. An armsman would have the power of his guns to rely on. And the Jedi would have the power of the force to counter it.

How many Storm Troopers have you seen in the Star Wars Universe using the Jedi Mind Trick?

Its a basic case of very basic math.

If the value of each gameplay facet is 2 and you have mobility, saber ability, force power mastery, and gun mastery. Its a simple case of the Jedi having less numbers to work with.

Armsman: 2 (mobility) + 2 (saber) + 2 (force) + 2 (guns) = 8

Whereas the current Jedi runs at a value of 6, because he denies himself the gun. (2 (mobility) + 2 (saber) + 2 (force) = 6)

If you remove the ability for a gunner player to have force powers, you again balance both types of players out at a value of 6, leaving both player types with strengths and weaknesses, remove the armsman saber, and balance it with a stun baton. And voila, multiplayer is balanced.

Especially if Raven can tweak the MP saber to be more like the SP saber.


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Old 04-14-2002, 01:19 PM   #11
crazyplaya73
 
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Quote:
Jedi Class = Has Force Powers
Quote:
Armsman Class = Has no Force Powers
Thats a cool idea
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Old 04-14-2002, 01:23 PM   #12
StarScrap
 
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The only problem I can see with your equasion is that you can' use guns and saber at the same time. But the concept is still there.

I think an optional class system (by server) would be a good addition. It does annoy me some that gunners have force powers, when that's not what you really expect. But oh well. It's not a major problem in my oppinion. If saberists want to be saberists they should get good enough to counter gunners. Or just not complain. It WAS their choice after all.


Did you know that if ants were as long as humans are tall and maintained the same speed/body size ratio they would walk at something like 45 mph? (about 75 kph I think) Running they could probably get up to over 100 mph.
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Old 04-14-2002, 01:27 PM   #13
murdoc
 
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I think it will be good to add a new force skill. and not a auto push.
If they add a defnce skill that have auto push and uses the dogde sniper shots (Force seeing).
put ing this in one skill will be better i think because u will have to use point at it.
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Old 04-14-2002, 01:33 PM   #14
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Scrap I understand your point but the problem is for most saberists that the game does not reflect the Star Wars Universe with any accuracy. Storm Troopers do not have the ability to jump 8 times their heighth in the Star Wars Universe, thats what makes the powers of the Force unique.

If Raven was to take away the ability for a player that uses guns to have force powers, and the ability for a jedi player to be able to use guns, you've got a more accurate play style.

A few additions to the technologically dependant armsman class would bring things into an even ground, an E-11 barrel mounted grapnel launcher to balance the jedi's force jump for example, IR goggles that work on batteries to counter mind trick.

The idea is that each class has its own distinct powers, a Jedi cannot blast someone to smithereens with a Merr Sonn, but an Armsman cannot use force speed or protect or whatever. Each kind of player has its own individual strengths, that take advantage of the others weaknesses, that is what true balance is.


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Old 04-14-2002, 01:48 PM   #15
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Basically, I think If your resigning yourself to use just the saber, you should be prepared to see other people that have simularlly (sp) resigned themselves to the guns, because they have more fun that way. How would you like it to see others complaining about you just because you don't use guns?

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Old 04-14-2002, 01:54 PM   #16
enDless_Deliriu
 
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Like what Chang said basically

the gunners don't get force powers, but they do get pickups and the like.

jedi get force powers and saber, but no guns and no pickups. You have to rely on the force and the force alone for your health and killing needs.

Maybe to keep things like jump more even (as it wouldn't be cool having someone at an unreachable spot just gripping and throwing gunners off the ledge) maybe give the gunners a grapnel or something to help them with getting to higher ledges, or better (and more even) a rocket launcher. Maybe have the rocket launcher be based on a charge system (like in TRIBES) so while you could technically have more control of your air borne mobility, the recharge time for the jet pack would be a little slower than the force recharges after jump (still, with smart use you could get a good # of jumps out of it) or even just have it recharge at the same rate and take a bit of skill to use efficiently


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