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Old 04-14-2002, 01:41 PM   #41
RiverWalker
 
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I think thats definitely a potential problem, rockets are a tad fast, the primary shot is clumsy enough most people just suck at it, but still, a few times I've seen it looks far too quakish...

I think a big part of the problem, is that blatantly stupid people are playing alot right now, I mean... like I think it was last night, I was playing on my regular server, (I know the clan that runs it, and the clan initials are in the server name) a clan member comes on, playing for a bit... someone initiates a vote to kick him, lol, the guy with the servers clan tags... how dumb do you have to be....?

I stand by the idea that there are "lame" and "unlame" ways to use pretty much any force skill or weapon in the game, for example, grip-throwing.

Grip them, hold them over the ledge and taunt = Lame.
duel challenge, they shoot at you, you grip them and throw them off the ledge, = NOT lame.

I admire people who can repeatedly get good disintegrating sniper shots,.. thats hella hard, at least for me. but very few (if any) are good enough at it to still hit someone whos jumping, rolling, flipping and running erratically,

I think that a mod based more or less on the ideas gabe mentioned in PA a little after JO came out, would be awsome, having like one or 2 jedis per side, with story like missions, and the jedis actually be more meaningful,
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Old 04-14-2002, 02:09 PM   #42
Ravenous
 
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Ok, you "saberists" keep commenting that this is a Star Wars game and that your supposed to use light sabers and **** like that and a lot of the guns make the game unbalanced and then the saberist doesn't have much of a chance....

FIRST off, this is a Star Wars game so it should be represented as such correct...well in the star wars universe how many jedi are there....not many. So realisticly there should be no more than one guy on each team with a light saber. They rest should be kicking your ass with guns. So if anyone ever complains about it because it's about Star Wars shut your pie hole because there aren't that many jedi any so if you are getting you ass kicked by a bunch of armsmen well then....that's the way it should be.

And if you guys think the Jedi coul easily take out anyone with a gun in the Star wars universe...well you maybe right, those Jedi can do some crazy ****. But if you keep getting killed by armsman...well maybe you aren't worthy enough to be a Jedi, put down the light saber and use guns like everyone else because you ain't good enough! OR maybe that's just the way it's supposed to be...weren't most of the Jedi killed off...what was that called...the Clone Wars!?!?!?!?!?

All this useless *****ing has brought up an intresting point of a class system. Saberist are right, this is a Start Wars game (painfully obivious) but they are not correct that the saber should be the primary weapon in a start wars game seeing how the Jedi are a rare class of people to begin with. Anyway, I think a MOD should be created that imposes a class system to even better reflect the battles in this univers. This should shut the saber vs. gun debate the hell up. FORE EXAMPLE.....

-JEDI
Weapons
-Lightsaber
-Bryar Pistol
-Force Powers
Agility
-Fast

-SCOUT
Weapons
-Stun Baton
-Bryar Pistol
-DE-11 Blaster Rifle
-Bowcaster
Agility
-Fast

-HEAVY WEAPONS
Weapons
-Bryar Pistol
-Heavy Repeater
-Destructive Electro-Magnetic Pulse 2 Gun
Agility
-Slow

-SNIPER
Weapons
-Bryar Pistol
-Disruptor
Agility
-Average

-DEMOLISTIONIST
Weapons
-Stun Baton
-Bryar Pistol
-Golan Arms FC-1
-Termal Dentinator
-Trip Mines
-Det Packs
Agility
-Average

That would take care of the "imbalances" (which I don't think that there are that much) in this game. You saberist will now have the advantage over those armsmen, the fact that you have force powers and they don't. Cause if you think about it, how many Jedi use a rocket launder? ...well maybe Darth A$$Hole but you know what I mean. This would make the game more realistic. You could set a limit to how many Jedi or heavy weapons or whatever the server sees fit on a team, to make the game more "fair" or realistic. This mod wouldn't take to much work, it we would just need a nice menu set up. and certain class weapon presents.

Last edited by Ravenous; 04-14-2002 at 02:42 PM.
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Old 04-14-2002, 02:33 PM   #43
Chewie Bakker
 
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Thumbs up The Jedi gunner? @_@

Ah, now that's more like it! People arguing rationally, and actually thinking about what they're saying. The point where the forum members have stopped looking at the problem and focussing on possible solutions.

I'd have to say the classes idea is the best I've heard.

I'm trying to think up different stuff for different classes to have so that they're not just saber-fodder for the Jedi. I'll post it once complete

Now, though, I must sleep.



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Old 04-14-2002, 02:36 PM   #44
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...along somes a whiner

Typical, just as I say that people are being rational...

Quote:
FIRST off, this is a Star Wars game so it should be represented as such correct...well in the star wars universe how many jedi are there....not many. So realisticly there should be no more than one guy on each team with a light saber. They rest should be kicking your ass with guns. So if anyone ever complains about it because it's about Star Wars STFU because there aren't that many jedi any so if you are getting you ass kicked by a bunch of armsmen well then....that's the way it should be.
...this happens.

People, stop this "STFU" and "Go away n00b" crap!

I'm off to bed for real this time.



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Old 04-14-2002, 02:45 PM   #45
Ravenous
 
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I edited my STFU remark...sorry about the newb language, I got a little heated...still I believe my point was still a valid one.
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Old 04-14-2002, 02:48 PM   #46
Sartis
 
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Well my only comment is yes this is a Star Wars game, but the damn game itself is called... 'JEDI KNIGHT' not 'STAR WARS ARENA'.

Anyways the classes idea is what will have to fix this situation, I don't think jedi care about using guns they just want to have a chance against those that do. Gunners don't have force powers it happens.
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Old 04-14-2002, 02:52 PM   #47
OOO
 
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I'm going to comment on a few things in this thread...

I'm all for having classes set up in the game, I feel that it would add more to the feel of the game. But also lets have force powers assigned to several different jedi classes as well.

As for people who complain about guns...don't you know what the FORCE PULL does? Take those three dots away from push so you can stop tossing people around and you'll find out that with three dots in FORCE PULL you can PULL the guns out of people hands! Then use the guys OWN gun to kill him

As for the complaining in general...well I've come from AvP2 and let me tell you there is an awesome game that was completely taken over and ruined by all the whiners and complainers. In that game I've heard, in no particular order.

Plasma cannon is lame

Pred Cloaking is lame

Predalians are cheap

Smart guns are for noobs

Emp grenades are cheap

Proximity grenades are for skillless noobs

Flamers are gay

Disc sucks

Sniper rifles are unbeatable

Pounce is gay

This wasn't the whole of the list either. So many people spouted so much **** that people started to believe it. The game wasn't perfect but it wasn't bad by a long shot.

JK2 also isn't a perfect game, but its not bad by a long shot either. When you play games, keep in mind that strategy and planning can overcome what seems to be an unbeatable tactics used by others. If you see someone with a gun and you go in and try to saber duel him and he shoots you up time and time again, then maybe you're the one doing something wrong...


OOO
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Old 04-14-2002, 03:07 PM   #48
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like I said, stupid people playing is the big problem, I mean, repeatedly I've killed someone when at close range they shoot a fully charged pistol at me, for goodness sakes it's not like I'm standing there spinning around waving the sword in the air, or even just STOPPED as he shot, but I was waiting for him to do something,

and I saw one guy with "|337" in his name, and he didn't even know how to assign force powers!!! several people said something along the lines of RTFM, and he responded with something like that alot of people here don't have the manual,

those people tick me off.

and even with things how they are, people who can really play the jedi role separate from those who are just playing quake with a sword and force powers,

one time on bespin exhausts, I pulled a guy off the upper level catwalk, but from having jumped or something, he was gonna land on the platform where I was, so I did a force push right in mid air, tossing him into the void, now as lame as that may sound to some, it was pretty dang slick at the time. lol,

if a person force grip throws me half a dozen times, no other attacks, then we duel and he shows he has skill there too, then at least I can respect that they are doing it because they can, rather than it being the only skill they know, and thinking they are badass because they can do the same action over and over.

/rant

edit: you know, I was just thinking... if you can waltz into the enemy area defended by like 6 people, snatch the flag right out from under them, and make your way out, and back to your base to cap, without using a gun, you ARE a badass jedi!!
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Old 04-14-2002, 07:24 PM   #49
StormHammer
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It's good to see people turning this into another reasoned debate without having to flame or insult each other.

Yes, there are problems with the game, but there's not a really easy solution, IMO.

On the one hand you have a saberist, who is unhappy about getting killed by guns, feeling they should have a counter-measure for all of the weapons.

On the other hand, you have the gunners, who can theoretically use whichever weapon they like to get a kill.

The problem I'm seeing - even in some of the above posts - is that the pure saberists are arguing to take away the Heavy Repeater alt fire and Golan Arms Flechette, because they keep getting killed with them...yet are not taking a step back to see the reason why.

It's because on level 3 saber defence, blasters almost never get through your defences. Many saberists seem to have absolutely no problem with this fact - the fact that most of the blasters in the game are rendered almost entirely useless against the saberist in a frontal attack. The only way to kill a saberist with a blaster effectively is to try to outflank them (not easy, because all you have to do is turn on the spot), jump overhead and fire down, shoot them in the back, or use the Bowcaster's bouncing shot to get behind or under the saberist's defence. I'm sure some saberists also think these tactics are lame, even though it's hard to do. Meanwhile, the gunner usually ends up back-peddling like crazy to try and stop themselves from getting gripped and dumped into an abyss, pushed off a walkway, enveloped in lightning, sliced by a lightsaber, or group killed by a bunch of saberists who come after you because they're all ticked off.

Removing the Heavy Repeater's alt fire and the Flechette canon would effectively make most saberists invulnerable to attack or at best exceedingly difficult to kill using blasters. I know how difficult it is, because in many recent online games I have stuck to the Bryar, E-11 and Bowcaster (the disruptor is next to useless against a fast-moving opponent, and the Heavy Repeater primary is far too inaccurate and ammo-hungry)...and unless your saberist opponent is looking away from you, it is very difficult for any of your shots to get through at all - and more than half of them are deflected right back in your face, killing you if you don't dodge effectively. The only alternative is to use explosives (and I've seen a few saberists complaining about getting killed by these as well) or ignite your own lightsaber, and go head-to-head - and I can tell you in no uncertain terms that if your lag is a lot higher than your opponents', it is near impossible to have a proper saber duel. That's beside the point anyway...because not everyone wants to exclusively use the saber against saberists.

Personally, I can only effectively use the saber about 20% of the time, due to lag issues. I tried going on a Saber only FFA server...and a lot of the time I did not see my opponent move before being struck down. My ping was about 600+...theirs was, on average, less than 100 (usually in the 50's). So I use guns for that other 80% of the time, and largely rely on anticipating my opponent's next move...and running and gunning to that point. I get some kills, I get to saber duel a few times when the lag isn't so bad, and I have some fun (which is my primary reason for playing online at all).

While I agree that the offensive Force powers should be disabled for gunners (while they have a gun in hand), if you remove things like Absorb, and reduce a gunner's mobility, you effectively cripple them from running for a health packs, extra shields or ammo. You can use Force speed to run circles around them and slash with the saber, or fry them with lightning then grip (against which shields are totally useless) or push them into a chasm, because they won't be able to get away. Wow...that sounds like a lot of fun for the gunner, RIP.

If you want to use the Star Wars movies as a reference, then sometimes a Jedi's best tactic was to beat a hasty retreat - Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan were in a standoff with Droidekas, if you recall, and the best tactic there was to Force speed away from the threat. So the argument that a Jedi should be able to overcome all other weapons is not entirely valid. On the other side of the argument...a Jedi could hold his own against most blaster-wielding opponents with just Saber and Force, cutting a swathe through their enemies, and it sounds to me that some Saberists want to simply emulate this movie-like experience online. While that sounds great...it would be at the expense of all gunners, and totally unfair. The only way to truly do that is to play the SP game - gunners in an MP game are not just there to be cut down for a saberist's enjoyment.

If projectile/splash damage weapons are the only way to kill a saberist in the game, then gunners will use them more often. Why limit yourself to a blaster where perhaps 1 in 15 shots may make it through a saberist's defence?. The Bryar, primary E-11, primary Bowcaster and even most of primary Heavy Repeater can all be deflected by a saberist on level 3 defence. If the gunner is lucky, the saberist has just come out of a battle and is still recharging health - and so a couple of stray shots getting through their defence can take them down.

When I hear saberists advocating stripping gunners of all force powers, reducing their speed, cutting their backward speed in half, and toning down the projectile weapons...I don't think that's being very fair or realistic, and would totally unbalance the game in favour of all saberists.

Saberists already have a formidable ally in the Force...

A level 3 saber defence can deflect...

1. Bryar (primary/secondary)
2. E-11 (primary/most of secondary)
3. Bowcaster (primary single shot/most of primary multi-shot/secondary - unless bounced to hit your flank/behind)
4. Heavy Repeater (most of primary)

It cannot deflect...

1. Disruptor (primary/secondary) - this weapon is not very useful anyway against moving opponents unless you are a dead shot.
2. Heavy Repeater (secondary) - but it can take 3 direct hits to put a saberist down who has full health/shields or Protect. I know this because I tried it once.
3. DEMP 2 (primary/secondary) - this gun is next to useless against all players anyway, unless you consistently use secondary to hit directly under your opponent so they get caught in the damage field.
4. Flechette (most of primary)

Level 3 Force Push can deflect

1. Missiles
2. Thermal Detonators
3. DEMP 2 (primary)
4. Flechette (secondary)
5. The other player.

Level 2/3 Force Pull can whip a weapon out of a gunner's hands.

I don't know about you...but I see a pattern there. The Disruptor's not very good if you're moving - you need to camp and be a dead shot - so most gunner's don't choose that weapon. Snipers are never really popular anyway. The DEMP 2 is next to useless and needs several hits to kill - even secondary fire - so it is not used a great deal, unless you are desperate. Which leaves...Heavy Repeater alt fire, Flechette primary, E-11 secondary (if you are very lucky, and fast at dodging your own shots coming back at you) and Bowcaster secondary (if you are experienced at bouncing shots - which incidentally takes skill). And trip mines and Detonator Packs - which are easy to spot and avoid, most of the time. If you use Missiles and TD's, you run the risk of having them Pushed back at you.

The two weapons saberists complain about the most...are the only two most likely to get through a good saberist's defences front on, unless you are willing, as a gunner, to trade off wasting a large amount of ammo and dodging deflected shots with the E-11 secondary, or the Bowcaster secondary. You can only get kills with the other weapons in other modes if your saberist opponent is not facing you - hence some of the shoot-in-the-back tactics, that are considered lame. Personally speaking...I don't like shooting people in the back. And I won't score cheap kills taking down people with sabers off - or even two duelists going at it, in spite of the fact they haven't engaged Challenge mode.

The problem arises when a group of saberists are fighting and are oblivious to what is going on around them, and can end up in a tight bunch. This makes a very large and easy target using any weapon...and there are no real rules of conduct on an FFA server, except one - Kill or Be Killed.

So, a large proportion of gunners can win on an FFA server by simply taking down clumps of saberists here and there from a distance.

One way to balance it would be to allow saberists to Push deflect the Heavy Repeater alt and Flechette primary fire - so if you see it coming, you can defend against it, and even send it back at the gunner. Keep in mind, the first shot from either weapon rarely leads to a kill...that will only happen if your opponent is already weakened from battle. So the saberist with good health/shields gets a warning with the first shot, and should then try to deflect the second/third shot. That way the gunner is more wary of using all of the guns at their disposal. To balance this out, the ability to deflect all incoming blaster shots could be slightly reduced...so a few more shots can get through a Saberist's defences, and make those other weapons more viable to the Gunner again. The saberist who does not use any form of Protect on an FFA server really should not be surprised if they are easily taken down. Perhaps that Force power needs to be tweaked, to use up less Force mana...I'm not sure...but I rarely see saberists using Protect at all.

The saberist then just has to ensure they are aware that they are on a server where guns are allowed...and should watch their backs for incoming attacks. That is a large part of the problem, I feel...that saberists get caught up in a duel...and simply forget about the gunners on the prowl. If you want to ensure you don't get killed by a gunner while in a duel...then you need to use the Duel Challenge mode a lot more and find a less hectic part of the level to duel in. Asking for a gunner not to attack while you are not in Challenge mode, is a bit unfair. If they attack you while you are in Challenge mode...then just teach them a lesson they won't forget while you're invulnerable.

You could also introduce some of the things that others have suggested...

Saberists...

Can only use the Lightsaber (while a saberist)
Can pick up Force Boon, Force Enlightenment, Ysalimiri, Stationery Shield, Inquisitor, Health Packs, Bacta Tanks
Can choose any Force powers they please, including...

Offensive

Lightning
Grip
Push
Pull (to snatch a weapon)
Mind Trick (to go invisible)
Lightsaber Throw
Dark Rage
Drain

Defensive

Saber defence (on level 3 to deflect blaster fire)
Speed (to run away - or close on an opponent)
Jump (to dodge splash damage effects)
Absorb (to counter Force attacks)
Heal (to restore health)
Protect (to absorb damage from physical attacks - including weapons fire )

While using the saber, shields should be set to zero - or the default level - and the saberist should not be able to pick up shields, ammo, guns or explosives.

Gunners

Get access to all weapons (except lightsaber)
Can pick up Health, Ammo, Shields, Guns, Explosives, Assault Sentry, Bacta Tanks, Stationery Shield, Ysalimiri
Cannot pick up Force Boon, Force Enlightenment
Cannot get access to Force powers, except...

Absorb - level 1, to counter some Force attacks.
Heal - level 1 heal rate, but can be used on the move - basically to give you a better chance of reaching a Health Pack while being pursued.
Jump - level 1, to get on top of large crates, etc.

If there are no Force powers available to the Gunner, then
the number of shields and health packs should be increased throughout the levels to compensate. Leave the backward speed as it currently is...because the gunner will simply be denied access to Force speed. That way the saberist has to use Force Speed to catch up to you, which will drain their Force pool slightly - but the Gunner will lose the advantage of distance, and becomes more vulnerable to Force attacks.

Also, to prevent people from simply switching between Saberist and Gunner, and having the best of both worlds...when you switch, you should go back to the default settings, as if you had just respawned, apart from your Health meter, which should remain at whatever setting it is when you switch. Also, when switching to saber from guns, your Force mana could initially be halved, so if they run out of ammo as a Gunner, they cannot simply switch to using the Saber and instantly fry their opponents. A Saberist switching to guns should not have access to all weapons and shields instantly - which would make them Godlike. For example, a Saberist is tackling two gunners, and isn't doing very well...they shouldn't be able to switch and have access to all the guns they might have picked up along the way to get a quick kill.

It might also be an idea to include a time limit before you can switch again (eg 30 seconds) so you have to survive as a Saberist or Gunner for that amount of time before you are allowed to switch back.

That's just in my opinion, of course.

It's all debatable, and no matter what they try to 'balance' the game, I suspect there will still be people complaining about it. They cannot please everyone - and they should certainly not focus on the Saberists' arguments alone. As I have outlined in this post...there are many defences that Saberists can use at the moment, but time and again, I see them not being employed. I throw a TD at a saberist who is facing me...and they don't try to Push it back at me. The same with the Missile launcher. The same with the DEMP 2. Either many people are not aware of this ability, or cannot seem to use it quickly enough.

Above all, Saberists (and remember, I'm one of them when I have a lightsaber in my hand) need to think carefully about their Force allocation when joining an FFA server. You will have to counter someone using guns, so it's smarter to max out Saber Defence, Push, Protect and Heal to deal with incoming fire, or make sure you are at home with all of the possible dodging moves, such as Jump, side/back/forward roll, etc., and know the maps well enough so that you can Force Speed and hide while healing. Of course you have to be quick using Push as a counter...but then, that's part of what being a Jedi is all about. You should really have some quick reflexes - and not rely on the game to provide that edge for you.
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Old 04-14-2002, 08:06 PM   #50
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StormHammer,

I agree with a lot of what you said. I think that a class system like the one I suggested um...somewhere in one of these posts on this subject...would work well for that. You've got a variety of classes, no one class could dominate. And you'd need to have a balance on your team to do well. Even if you didn't play as a team, it'd be fun still.

Assuming we do the sabre vs. gunners split in abilities, I think that your setup for force powers would work well. And you're right, a heavy repeater should remain unblockable. As should the flechette's secondary abilities, and the missile launcher. That said, the full range of force powers should NOT be available to gunners. THAT is the major problem. I don't want them crippled, but I certainly don't want them to be at the advantage they currently have. How we get to this point remains to be seen, but I think the goal is a reasonable one.
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Old 04-14-2002, 09:17 PM   #51
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I'm a saberist and I think that some of you other saberists are whining just a little. I personally find that my force powers can negate almost anything except Alt-fire on the repeater. Alot of complaint is that gunners can use force powers too but I find that gunners generally don't use them that much becuase jumping 50 feet in the air tends to throw off their aim. When I see a gunner jump like that I tend to push them or pulll them and then it's game over. Dark jedis tend to max out grip and drain and they can't effectively counter gunners because of that. That is your problem just because grip is cool looking and you can throw them off a ledge doesn't mean you use it exclusively. There is almost always a way to counter something in this game if you allocate your force points corectly.


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Old 04-14-2002, 10:05 PM   #52
Spider AL
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Yes, there's always a counter... and a class system would restrict those players that want to sometimes use guns, and sometimes use a sabre, like myself. It's also really irrelevant when you consider that a rather skilled player... will win. Whether he chooses one class or another, he'll win. And when he wins, those who didn't win will get a little peed off. And when they get peed off, they will rant at the winner, and (if they are of a different class to the winner) They will rant about how imbalanced the game is.

Frankly, it's almost impossible to make a game perfectly balanced. There will always be SOME way of giving yourself an edge, whether it be a gun, a force power, a special move like kicking, a specific sabre move, whatever.

The following kind of thing has been said before, by OOO, Hiteche and River among others... but:

I, personally, think that people should channel their angst into mod-making, rather than expecting every weapon in the game to be equal. If every weapon in the game were equal, what would be the point of having different weapons? Just because they look different? Because they make different noises? Since the days of the early player v player games, there have been weapons more desirable than others.

As for the lightsabre being equal to guns, I personally think that it is. It does serious damage, it can be used at different speeds and in different ways... But you have to be experienced enough to get CLOSE, in order that it be effective. Throwing it is fine, but it leaves you defenceless.

Now, a lot of players scream at me for shooting them... but, often enough, I've given them plenty of time to change weapons by standing still in front of them. Once I'm sure they wish to use their sabre against me, I attack...

But, most of the time they don't even use a single force power. Not one. Nor a single special sabre move. Nor a single evasive maneuver. They just run straight at me with the weedy fast style on, hacking away. Now, I shoot them. They die. Then they accuse me of being dishonourable, before calling me every dirty name under the sun...

And why don't I duel them you may ask? Well for a start, I don't get all chummy with people who insult me. Secondly, I'm usually competing with at least one other player who wants to win. If I waste precious seconds duelling with everyone who asks (And there's always quite a few when you're leading) I'd spend ALL my time in the game duelling. Perhaps, if I'm lucky, a kill every forty seconds. Meanwhile, my rivals are running around killing at least four or five people a minute. Duelling takes time that I can't afford.

And do I use the sabre? Yes I use the sabre. All the time. I use it when I'm in close quarters and can't use an explosive weapon effectively, I use it when there's an opponent I know I can kill quickly with the sabre, and I use it when I don't have a big gun. When I use the sabre, I use it with commitment. I switch styles according to situation, I use my force powers to defeat my opponent too. When confronted by a gunner, I pull their weapon away. I push them over. I kick them. I roll around them. I do my damnedest to survive, and kill them in the process of surviving.

What concerns me is that people of the type I described above, people who can't even be bothered to try to force pull my gun, people who can't even be bothered to jump about, or use Force Speed, or roll even, are massing together and talking about depriving people who use guns, of their Force Powers.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying everyone who's talking about a class-system is skilless, I know that a lot of roleplayers have extensive playing ability too, and just want to make the game more Star-Warsy. What I'm trying to convey is that a lot of players enjoy using the Force, enjoy using their sabres, and enjoy using guns. All together. And if a player doesn't have ability, he will not win the game. So instead of changing the game, (And not changing who wins, because those with commitment will still win) why not practice a little more? Why not... learn where every powerup is on a level? Why not... use a weapon appropriate to a situation, rather than using the same weapon all the time? That's what players who win regularly, have had to do to gain their skills. Or, if you don't want to spend that much time becoming skilled at the game, why not create a class-system mod to use along with the game?

Hmm, on a side note I'm not sure people realise how rewarding becoming "good" at a game can be. As long as you keep your feet on the ground, you won't get arrogant, you won't get bitter or vain, and you'll have a heck of a time discovering new and interesting ways to win.

Finally it's been said before, but when you ask people who complain that sabres aren't strong enough to defeat gunners, "why don't you play on sabres only servers?" they tend to say something like "well I can't get one with a good ping." What these people are forgetting is that it's barely past two weeks since the game was released. Be patient! More servers (and ways of finding them) spring up every day. A little perseverance in locating a server to suit you helps too.


[FW] Spider AL
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Hewwo, meesa Jar-Jar Binks. Yeah. Excusing me, but me needs to go bust meesa head in with dissa claw-hammer, because yousa have stripped away meesa will to living.
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Old 04-14-2002, 10:27 PM   #53
StormHammer
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I usually can't get a good ping wherever I play. I'm lucky if I don't see a Connection Interrupted message every game...or see the dreaded 999 Ping...

It seems to be getting more frequent too...

Oh well...yeah...another valid argument.
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Old 04-14-2002, 10:42 PM   #54
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I'd just like to respond to people saying saberists should be able to take out gunners easily. I"m a saberist though, just using a bit of logic.

Ok first of all, in none of the movies do we see a skilled gunner vs. a skilled saberist. Its all stormtroopers etc, nothing special. We do, in ROTJ see boba fett. He of course, is knocked inot the pit from a lucky shot from a blind man. Before he was knocked into the pitt, he was doing a pretty good job messing up luke with different uses of weapons. What would the point be of having a Jango Fett vs. Obi Wan fight if it was one sided? So we do not know how effective jedis are against gunners even though they seem like it against stormtroopers. If you want to be a jedi master instantly, you have to go against veteran armsman instantly. It seems like some of you guys came straight from single player and are pissed that you can't deflect every shot, dodge every missile, and kill everything in one hit.
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Old 04-14-2002, 11:37 PM   #55
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Run away! Run away!

I usually play as a light sabreist - and I'm a big fan of the run away policy when it comes to being attacked by stuff like the flechette / repeater secondary fire. I look at the blocking ability of the light sabre not as an offensive tool, but something that will help me get out of there .

That said, when it comes down to attacking gun wielders, I try to neutralise the threat as soon as possible, which means getting up close and force pulling the weapon. This is by far my favourite means of attack. One thing I miss however (from JK 1) is the panic for the gun wielder once the weapon is pulled - I often pull a weapon only to have it autoswitched ( do weapons autoswitch once pulled? - I've never had someone pull a weapon from me) to a much more deadly weapon - doh!. But generally speaking, getting up close and personal with a jedi is gonna be messy for a gun wielder. Sure I get killed by gunners, but I think there are sufficient methods for getting close to a gunner to take em out - regardless of the balance of the weapons. If all else fails I fall back to the run away tactic .

Howver, Dark jedi should be more balanced towards an offensive method for taking out gunners. I don't play as a dark - so I wouldn't know how easy this is...

So basically - in a 1-1 encounter with a gunner Jedi should hold their own, and be able to survive to see another day. When dealing with a gunnner attacking a pack of duelling sabreists I usually jump out of the sabre fight and deal with the gunner first - pulling the weapon, so that I can try to make sure that the only thing I get killed by is a sabre. If there are several gunners attacking a single jedi you're pretty much screwed ( except for the run away tactic) - light sabre or not.

So basically - do the guns need balancing? I don't think so - but I don't play very competitively. I would hope that any changes made to guns still make it possible to win using guns and little training. However, I'd still like to see the reward for lots of effort put into sabre practice, where a gunner will be scared (even a little bit) of a Jedi running into a room. It'll be a sad day if I can't find anyone to pull weapons out of their hands because all the gun users feel the sabre is too powerful.
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Old 04-14-2002, 11:51 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally posted by Solo4114
1.) they want to play a cool FPS, 2.) they're die-hard Star Wars fans who want to be able to play like Jedi Knights online. They install the game, fire up MP, and join in a battle. On the one side, you've got the guy who wants to play to win. Nothing wrong with that. I like winning too. You've also got the die-hard fan who wants to win, but wants to do it as a Jedi. These two meet in an FFA server. The guy who's playing to win fights a few sabre battles, then runs off after a while and grabs a gun. He runs back to where the sabre battles were, and finds four Jedi wannabes duking it out in the middle of the map. The gun user looks at the melee, looks down at the weapon of mass distruction in his hands, gets an evil grin on his face, and proceeds to vaporize all of the jedi. Suddenly, the guy playing to win realizes, hey, why bother with a sabre when you can use a gun?? He also realizes that he's wasted a lot of points on sabre skills when they could go to other force powers. He bumps all his neutral skills (Speed, push, pull, seeing) up to level three. The guy who plays to win starts doing so. Even in one-on-one fights against the jedi. He runs, shoots them with a repeater or flechette cannon, and when they manage to push the bolts back at him, he figures out that if he jumps and fires, they'll never hit him even if he doesn't hit them 100% of the time. Meanwhile, the sabre user becomes more and more frustrated. He decides to go play on a sabre only server. Except that sabre combat is so lackluster in this game, that he grows tired of it, and leaves. Meanwhile, the gun user is still using guns and force powers, but the game's getting old to him. Besides Q3, CS.....
I disagree.

I am a Q3 player and quite good(IMHO).

I do not play Jedi2 in FPS, I Play it in 3rd person no matter the weapon. You can see more and use the acrobatics to your advantange.

The logic is not as you lay it out. To appreciate the game you must accept it as unique. Those factions you describe in your diatribe are nothing more than some people not accepting the game for what it is, but wanting to change the game to what they want. We all know this behaviour; childish and non-adaptive.

The game will sell well and survive regardless of your flawed logic;It is not the game that needs changing but the attitudes of those that project their self esteem on to the game.


A boy In A Wheelchair
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Old 04-14-2002, 11:57 PM   #57
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I use a saber ALMOST exclusivly, I also use Thermal's, Sniper Laser Rifle, and Heavy Repeater aswell. And I don't ***** about weapons being in the game. I mean, seriously, the creators saw it fit that they put those weapons in the game, and they are by no means lame.
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Old 04-15-2002, 12:59 AM   #58
Sartis
 
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Ok the guns vs saber debate is so dead its not even funny anymore, Guns kills more than sabers, the saberists are mad and want balance, the gunners say get more skill you noob. Fact of the matter is if that email from Ravensoft was true they are looking at balancing guns vs sabers, whether that means no force powers while holding a gun or lower movement rate who knows. Thing is ravensoft will do what they do, both sides won;'t see th perspective of the other so why don't we drop it? we aren't really accomplishing anything other than dragging out the same discussion.

All I can say is if you like being a gunner now, might as well have as much fun as you can before the patch, because from that email looks like they are seriously considering movement changes, and force power reductions. And god knows what else.
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Old 04-15-2002, 01:17 AM   #59
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Quote:
what is with you guys thinking you are some type of badass jedi because you can use
lightsabers in deathmatch? I've never seen such egoism in a game before. I mean christ you people take it personally beacuse other people use guns and not sabers exclusively, or if you dont use sabers exclusively you're not as good or as much of a "fan" gimmie a break.
I agree wholeheartedly with the sentiment.. I don't see why anyone should act superior just because they choose to play the game this way while others around them don't, but then I've encountered this type of attitude more on the forums than in the game (so far), so perhaps it isn't as widespread, or I've just been lucky.

Whiners and people who spend more time bragging than playing ruin the atmosphere of any game... best to ignore them, and hopefully they'll move on.

Quote:
It seems like some of you guys came straight from single player and are pissed that you can't deflect every shot, dodge every missile, and kill everything in one hit.
And I agree.

I don't think that making the saber the most powerful weapon in Multiplayer is "balanced" in any sense of the word, and we've heard that whole song and dance already in a few other threads.
; p

Those are some good lists there Stormhammer, but I have a couple of things to add:

Quote:
It cannot deflect...

1. Disruptor (primary/secondary) - this weapon is not very useful anyway against moving opponents unless you are a dead shot.
...
3. DEMP 2 (primary/secondary) - this gun is next to useless against all players anyway, unless you consistently use secondary to hit directly under your opponent so they get caught in the damage field.
It is quite possible to block Disruptor shots with the saber, I've done it. Whilst practicing with a friend of mine, he targetted first my saber, then my head with the disruptor, while I was standing perfectly still, with saber out, and every shot was blocked (it doesn't bounce off of course, just hits the saber and stops). You can also of course use level 3 seeing to "dodge" it, but I haven't tried it myself yet. I wondered about the DEMP2, and frankly I can often get kills on unsuspecting people in for example the Deathstar level. The blast radius of secondary is quite large.
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Old 04-15-2002, 02:05 AM   #60
toolboi
 
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Bah! None of the guns are over powered, the trick is to know what to use against the people using each. For example you DO NOT go up against a repeater with a lightsaber

Actually, I have to admit that the repeater is a bit over powered in that at long range it is DEADLY and it has the granade effect. It should be easy to take out with, say, a blaster (actually Ive killeda few repeater freaks with a blaster, headshots are your friend). The sniper rifle works well too.
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Old 04-15-2002, 02:29 AM   #61
ChrisTheS
 
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I fully intend to learn how to go into a unlimited guns server and kick arse using only the lightsaber... if it means running away from a fight sometimes, then so be it, but I don't believe anyone has a right to claim the mantle of Jedi until they can effectively get by with the saber and ONLY the saber (which is not to say that I think everyone should use sabers only... just that I intend to do so, and I think I can get away with it).


HONOR SYSTEM VIRUS

This virus works on the honor system. Please delete all files on your drive and forward this to everyone you know.
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Old 04-15-2002, 03:54 AM   #62
lukeboy
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by Solo4114

And this is why this game will die shortly unless something is done to fix it. Follow out this scenario to its logical conclusion. People buy JO for two distinct reasons: 1.) they want to play a cool FPS, 2.) they're die-hard Star Wars fans who want to be able to play like Jedi Knights online. They install the game, fire up MP, and join in a battle. On the one side, you've got the guy who wants to play to win. Nothing wrong with that. I like winning too. You've also got the die-hard fan who wants to win, but wants to do it as a Jedi. These two meet in an FFA server. The guy who's playing to win fights a few sabre battles, then runs off after a while and grabs a gun. He runs back to where the sabre battles were, and finds four Jedi wannabes duking it out in the middle of the map. The gun user looks at the melee, looks down at the weapon of mass distruction in his hands, gets an evil grin on his face, and proceeds to vaporize all of the jedi. Suddenly, the guy playing to win realizes, hey, why bother with a sabre when you can use a gun?? He also realizes that he's wasted a lot of points on sabre skills when they could go to other force powers. He bumps all his neutral skills (Speed, push, pull, seeing) up to level three. The guy who plays to win starts doing so. Even in one-on-one fights against the jedi. He runs, shoots them with a repeater or flechette cannon, and when they manage to push the bolts back at him, he figures out that if he jumps and fires, they'll never hit him even if he doesn't hit them 100% of the time. Meanwhile, the sabre user becomes more and more frustrated. He decides to go play on a sabre only server. Except that sabre combat is so lackluster in this game, that he grows tired of it, and leaves. Meanwhile, the gun user is still using guns and force powers, but the game's getting old to him. Besides Q3, CS, and a whole host of other games did it better and were more interesting to play. For him, the game ends up being just another gun game that isn't terribly distinguished from the other games. Now where do you think the game goes from here? The gun user gets bored with the game and moves on to another game with cooler, newer guns. The sabre user is bored with sabre combat in the game, and goes back to summoning groups of enemies and allies to play on SP maps. And the multiplayer aspect of this game that we had such high hopes for dwindles and dies. Folks just stop playing. Raven figures this out and doesn't put as much energy into supporting the game because they've got other projects to work on that will reach a larger audience.

THIS IS WHAT WILL HAPPEN TO THIS GAME UNLESS IT IS PATCHED OR MODDED. Mark my words. [/B]
Good point, I just want to mention it , most gun***** prefer playing JO,just becuz they are not skilled enough to play RCTW or Q3.Kill a guy with melee weapon is easier than kill a quaker .

Most saberist insists playing saber around even if there are a bunch of gun towards them , just because they want to be a jedi but doesn't notice there is a unbalance exist in game.
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Old 04-16-2002, 03:00 AM   #63
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Quote:
Originally posted by Joruus
[B]Yeah I have to agree here.

I play CTF pretty much exclusively and the nutballs running at me with their sabers and their force powers really need to get a clue.

I understand its a Star Wars based game, but really, theres not gonna be ANY Jedi in JKO MP that can pull off attacking a gunner with his saber and his force powers unless the gunner is just wholly and totally incompetant.
I take exception to that comment, I go into guns servers occasionally, but I never ask people to stop using guns, that's why I went there, I feel like taking out a bit of wrath on some gun weenies. The thing about gunning in jedi outcast is this, it doesn't work, there's nothing about it that you shouldn't do, by all means, alt fire repeater go with your homing rockets, do whatever you like.

Just don't be surprised when people dodge your disruptor shots, deflect your splash damage weapons, and leave your field of view entirely to appear moments before your death courtesy of a heavy jumping slash.

That's the only thing that annoys me about gun users, you people are hypocrites! you constantly rag on saber wielding newbies that don't know how to counteract ranged weapons for being lame, and yet when you're outclassed by saber wielders, scream unfair.

Note that's not an individual insult, I don't know you, but more often than not when I hand the ass of a gun user to them, they cry foul play.

Cheers
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Old 04-16-2002, 03:24 AM   #64
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Thumbs down

Quote:
what takes more skill? Killing someone in less than 5 seconds with the E-11 blaster rifle.....or spinning in circles continually until you hit someone?
how can you say that...if the people your playing dont suck completely they will get away from the person spinning in random circles and attack them in a fairly smart person manner...as opposed to anybody i see who bothers to use the blaster rifle and shoots randomly with secondary fire into big lightsaber battles looking for cheap kills. plus, if using the blaster rifle is so much better than the lightsaber, then why would they have the lightsaber at all...could they just add a laser gun to quake 3, call it quake 4, and make you happy with it?


Space Monkey
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Old 04-16-2002, 04:03 AM   #65
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IMHO Id like to see some weapons beeing weakened a bit. A sabre-swinging ultra l337 dark-jedi badass does not have the slightest chance against me or any1 elese who is equipped with a rocket launcher.

But I dont moan about people who are using the rocket launcher, I just search for a game with sabres only...

For people who prefer firearm-action JK is _definitely_ the wrong game...


Think for yourself. Question authority.

<Luke> IM BLWOIN' !!!
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Old 04-16-2002, 05:14 AM   #66
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People play to win. Use the weapon that is best for that given scenario. As the old saying goes "you don't bring a knife to a gun fight."
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Old 04-16-2002, 10:12 AM   #67
Dago
 
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I didn't take the time to read all the posts but all I have to say is people B!TCH about guns(me too) becuase maybe......THERE ARE 1345345664363466467650000000000000000000000000!!!! !!!!F@%ING GAMES OUT THERE WITH GUNS!!!!!! AND IT IS STAR WARS AND STAR WARS IS SO F@#ING BIG BECUASE OF THE F@#$ING LIGHTSABER!!! SO IF U WANNA USE A GUN GO BUY UNREAL!!! AND LEAVE STAR WARS ALONE!!!
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Old 04-16-2002, 10:24 AM   #68
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In CTF the weapons are balanced very well. Two sabers at the flag is a hardy defense because the snatcher must get in close. Add a skilled weapon toting forward defender and you have quite the obstacle.
I am primarily weapons on CTF but when running back with the flag I use saber for deflect and force speed, and I usually make it back
I see great balance in CTF if everyone knows what they are doing. A little teamwork and strategy go a long way. Zerg rushes usually fail.
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Old 04-16-2002, 10:25 AM   #69
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dago
I didn't take the time to read all the posts but all I have to say is people B!TCH about guns(me too) becuase maybe......THERE ARE 1345345664363466467650000000000000000000000000!!!! !!!!F@%ING GAMES OUT THERE WITH GUNS!!!!!! AND IT IS STAR WARS AND STAR WARS IS SO F@#ING BIG BECUASE OF THE F@#$ING LIGHTSABER!!! SO IF U WANNA USE A GUN GO BUY UNREAL!!! AND LEAVE STAR WARS ALONE!!!
Did you get JK2 for your 12th birthday?
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Old 04-16-2002, 11:12 AM   #70
Dago
 
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Ok... you think I'm wrong? There are so many FPS out there its not even funny, and if u got JK2 for the guns your a Fuc](ing moron. plus sorry to say the guns in JK2 are lame, and you can tell they put little thought into them. If you wanna use guns try Counter-Strike, its 2 or 3 years old and it still has better gun fights then any game out there.
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Old 04-16-2002, 11:32 AM   #71
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For those of you who don't use guns, or don't want others to use guns, make a saber only server. For you gun people who complain about the force, make a no force server. Anyone still complaining, try playing the game instead of whining, and your skills may improve.


Use the Force, however you like.

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Old 04-16-2002, 11:55 AM   #72
Threetall
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dago
Ok... you think I'm wrong? There are so many FPS out there its not even funny, and if u got JK2 for the guns your a Fuc](ing moron. plus sorry to say the guns in JK2 are lame, and you can tell they put little thought into them. If you wanna use guns try Counter-Strike, its 2 or 3 years old and it still has better gun fights then any game out there.
Wrong or right, I was responding to your little tantrum.


Quote:
Originally posted by Jedi_Overlord
For those of you who don't use guns, or don't want others to use guns, make a saber only server. For you gun people who complain about the force, make a no force server. Anyone still complaining, try playing the game instead of whining, and your skills may improve.
Sound advice.
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Old 04-16-2002, 01:39 PM   #73
Dago
 
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This is why I don't like people who use guns. they go to a store and they must know all there going to do is use a gun in the game, so there are 2 new games out Global Ops and JK2. JK2 has 12 weapons, Global Ops has about 30+. JK2 is not really a upper gun based game, and Global Ops is... why did u pick JK2??? Its not becuase of the lightsaber or u would using it so why did u pick a game with less Weapons...???
I got JK2 for the force powers and lightsaber, to get away from those massive gun games for a bit. The only time I used the guns were in single player, until I got my lightsaber. and those first few levels were lame. But once I had my lightsaber and force powers I had a blast. So anyone please post and tell me why you picked JK2 over Global Ops if you knew you would only be using a gun?
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Old 04-22-2002, 12:16 PM   #74
nickm1981
 
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I fail to see what the problem is here. You have said that if a player with a gun goes against a player with a saber the player with the gun will win. I have to disagree. You can block most gun shots with your saber. You can push back all the missiles. Completely useless weapon if you ask me. You can jump a lost of the heavy repeater fire and then force grip him or lightening. I think the balance is just right. I have no problems with people using weapons against me, it adds to the fun when you kill them with there own weapon fire :-) This is just my opinion before any one gets the hump!
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Old 04-22-2002, 01:30 PM   #75
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Hmm,

Have you guys ever considered the saber as being just another weapon? It seems llike people are hell-bent on using the saber only...

Just consider it as another wepon at your disposal. I dont see any topics saying that the E11 is unbalanced vs the Repeater. Why arent we complaining about imbalances btw the guns? That Bryar pistol seems awfully weak!

Peace,
Bronze
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Old 04-22-2002, 02:53 PM   #76
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Quote:
JK2 also isn't a perfect game, but its not bad by a long shot either. When you play games, keep in mind that strategy and planning can overcome what seems to be an unbeatable tactics used by others. If you see someone with a gun and you go in and try to saber duel him and he shoots you up time and time again, then maybe you're the one doing something wrong...
Looks like at least someone has a clue.

IMO, ffa's are downright stupid, basically u'll have a cpl guys fighting with sabers, and a bunch of guys spamming alt repeater, etc... (Dont get me wrong on the FFA, but if ur playing on a public serv u get what u pay for.) The weapons dont play like a good mp game, there's only a handful that i would actually use.
Jko isnt a good DM game, but the possibilities for ctf are amazing, which by the way, u dont have to frag like a mofo to cap. And in that case, the weapons are as balanced as anything else.
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Old 04-22-2002, 04:20 PM   #77
gaeb
 
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Guns vs. Sabers
Guns vs. Sabers
Realism vs. Idealism
McDonalds vs. Burger King

GIMME A BREAK!

If someone makes a mod with 'classes' that mirror their ideal game ... great.

If raven chooses to patch their game (other than backward running and bunny hopping, I see no real balance reason to) ... great.

This game does not conform to what YOU think it should be. It conforms to what the DEVELOPERS think it should be. They made it, not you. They made it for your enjoyment, but wiser heads prevailed and wrote "The Lightsaber will not be the most powerful weapon in the game." ... and meant it.

----- Story -----

I found one of my good friends online yesterday. We'd never played the same server before in Team FFA. So he tried to challenge me to a duel, but duels are disabled in TFFA (Hardcoded.) ... so when we ran into each other on the highest level of Nar Shadda, he turned his saber off and faced me, trying to get me to accept a saber duel.

I shot him, gripped him, and threw him off the ledge. Unfortunately he managed to land on the lowest level, so I didn't get a kill. We'd played on duel servers before ... I KNEW he was a better saberist than I ... and with the ability to both turn on absorb and force push me, I had a very good chance of being thrown off. So I shot him. Honestly, I thought he was changing weapons. I would have. I saw the saber go out, measured the range and thought about escape routes from various weapons even as I was pulling out the flechette gun, and let it rip.

It made for interesting dinner conversation when at the end of the afternoon we decided to get some food together on campus. He didn't hold it against me. He actually laughed, "So I waited for you to draw your saber, and you SHOT ME IN THE HEAD! I was totally shocked!" .. he doesn't play guns often because he hasn't learned them yet. On duel servers, we come out about even... but only because I play cheap. If I get a drain off quickly enough, I kill him with force push+slash, or grip, or lightning if I know he's low.

He doesn't take offense to my tactics, because he's a diehard quaker/UT/HL/CS/DF ... you name a FPS, he's played it. He knows all about 'cheap' tactics, and he's pretty happy with what he can do. His force powers, if used properly, nullify mine. Which is, in and of itself, incredibly powerful. It comes down to which of us gets the drop on the other one. Beyond that, I have guns to even it out, because he's a better FPS'r than I am. When he starts using guns, I'm going to be in trouble.

----- / End Story \ -----


// Start Rant
Ok. OMG. People running around with just sabers is fine. That's your playstyle. The weapon in my hand for 80% of my playtime is the saber... but it's not because I rely on it. It's because it can't be stolen. I use guns to get many of my kills. I use them often. I would like to say I use them well, but I know I'm not really _that_ good. There are just a lot of people out there who are _that_ bad. People who come into games where the rules are set and tell me I'm 'ghey' for using a gun... then come blasting at me with an E-11 and complain when I take it away from them and shoot them with it.

Guns are easily stealable when you are in a 'vulnerable' stage (see push/pull on falling maps references) and all it requires is a little skill and footwork. Never chase a good gunner when he runs backwards along the hallway shooting at you (see above need for patch) ... because he has all the advantages. ALL the advantages. He can counter anything you can do, he has a ranged attack, and you are forced to chase him if you want to hit him, which gives him an easy shot. NEVER chase a good gunner who is running backward and facing you.

A lot of people don't understand vulnerability in this game. They don't understand that as soon as you attack, roll, jump, get up, you are VULNERABLE to force powers ... which, in conjuction with guns and the stealing of guns, means that more often than not, the person who fires first ends up flat on their ass with no weapon. This carries over to (and is most important in!) saber dueling as well.

// End Rant

Look. People. Half of you don't play this game well enough to even consider the situation objectively. You're taking a subjective approach because of your frustration. I die to rocket launcher attacks on occasion in places like massassi temple... but five times out of seven, I steal the launcher. On two occasions I've pushed rockets back for kills. It's not that difficult. It just requires a little more knowledge of HOW THE GAME WORKS and less 'knowledge' of HOW YOU THINK THE GAME SHOULD WORK.

- Gaeb

PS: Sorry for the diatribe. This topic is so frustrating. Learn. The. Game.
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Old 04-22-2002, 04:33 PM   #78
Spidey
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 56
Guns are supposed to overpower the lightsaber. Period. If you watch the star wars movies, you will know this. I think its A New Hope where Obi-Wan tells luke that the lightsaber is more of an elegant weapon. But all these guns made the lightsaber obsolete.

I use the saber 75% of the time and I am a purely light side Jedi. People don't realize that you can't go up against guys with guns without investing your force points to get a rank 3 in Pull and a rank 3 in Push.

I use the saber 75% of the time and I rarely put any more than level 1 or 2 in saber throw.

Here are my priorities

(1) Force Jump - Rank 3
(2) Force Pull - Rank 3
(3) Force Push - Rank 3
(4) Force Absorb - Rank 3
(5) Saber Attack - Rank 3
(6) Saber Defense - Rank 3

Others as needed.

I think people need to stop complaining about guns. If you can't handle it, then go to a saber only server.

There is nothing more satisfying than pulling that gun out of someone's hands and using it against them.

So all sabersits, GROW UP. Deal with guns and live with it or go to saber only.
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Old 04-22-2002, 08:20 PM   #79
Kreidian
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 25
Well, seeing as how I'm basically sabre-only, I guess that would put me in the sabrist camp. However I don't think the game has ANY balance issues whatsoever. After playing many MP games with nothing but my sabre I've found I have no problems with people using rockets, alt-repeater, DEMP1, or whatever in a FFA game.

Now I used to stick with sabre-olny servers, usually duel servers at that. And I still go on Duel servers every now and then. But I also enjoy going on gun-filled FFA games and fighting sabre-only. You know what, I do pretty good, frag-wise. In fact, on more than one occasion I've gotten the largest number of frags on a FFA game. Do I get killed by some of the nastier guns out there? Of coarse I do, I'm not perfect. But I don't care about that it's part of the game. I just try to be smart about it. If someone is throwing det mines at me or shooting everything and everyone with the alt-repeater, I take the best counter available, which is likely running. That way I can use heal and come back. Think about it, heal is a very effective counter against these guns.

Slowly but surely I'm learning a great number of counters to everything in the game. I have not found anything in the game that cannot be countered by a "true Jedi", which is the role I try to play. In a FFA game I always have 3 dots in Pull. If I'm at full health and I see someone with a heavy repeater coming at me, I will usually take the risk and charge him! That way I can force pull him and follow up with a kick to the head or even just a simple sabre slash. Chances are good that I'll take their weapon away and they'll be down on the ground. If I kicked them then they'll be down on health. Then I can just come in and wail on them. If I think they might have a dangerous gun on them I'll try to finish them off with a heavy slice.

The tactic works, the fact that I get so many kills in FFA proves it. I might not get the most kills all the time, but the fact that I can be so competative with a just a sabre tells me that the game is a lot more balanced than people say it is.

And for those gunners who think that saberists should be this competative, you're looking at this all wrong. Everything in the game has a counter, including other counters. If you're smart about your weapons you can defeat a saberist. Here's a small clue: don't let him get away and heal. Don't let him get close either...
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Old 04-23-2002, 03:31 AM   #80
Sith knight
 
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Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Tatooine
Posts: 28
It is really a difficult problem to solve: gun vs saber. Especially it is also about skill of using saber (gun also may be less but you still need skill), skill of using force, ping. I see many saberists gunned down by gunners but I also see many gunners choke or lightning to dead by saberists. I spectate alot to learn and find out new tactics. New players have to use guns as they have little skills on saber and force. My gunning skill is enhanced after playing CTF alot.

I only use guns in CTF, not only because my ping is high but also I have to back up my team. I use only saber in FFA and don't mind being killed by guns. With good use of force, you can avoid many gunners' attack, you can jump so high and run so fast (of course they can too, but this make them much difficult to aim a moving objects when they are moving also), and kill them with saber and force. For example, good grippers can grip a player to a wall, or keep gripping when himself is moving or jumping, you don't need a dead fall to kill with gripping. Of course you are not totally invincible, otherwise gunners must complain in this case. As a jedi, you have to train yourself as luke did in the movie. I think you don't expect you to become a jedi without any learning. To use the saber and force only, you have to learn the tactics of using force to kill and dodge bullets. Patience my friend, be a jedi you have to learn control.
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