lfnetwork.com mark read register faq members calendar

Thread: 1st person view with saber in MP
Thread Tools Display Modes
Post a new thread. Add a reply to this thread. Indicate all threads in this forum as read. Subscribe to this forum. RSS feed: this forum RSS feed: all forums
Old 04-15-2002, 10:01 PM   #1
Evil Jeff
 
Evil Jeff's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 11
Unhappy 1st person view with saber in MP

For the love of God will we be getting the ability to stay in 1st person view with the saber for multiplay??? Somebody tell me there's a console command that has yet to be found to fix this. I hate being forced to play a first person shooter in third person view.

I know lots of folks like to play in third person and that's fine, but don't force us all to do it. It's like playin with a remote control jedi on a wire. You can do it fine in single player so it stands to reason it can be done with multiplay. Please somebody tell me this is or will soon be possible.

I apologize if this was already discussed, but I couldn't find it.


EVIL JEFF .\/.
Evil Jeff is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 04-15-2002, 10:20 PM   #2
ACGe0rge
 
ACGe0rge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Lincoln, NE
Posts: 230
I dont hae a solution to your problem but I'm a bit curious why you want to use the first person mose. It just seems to me that lightsabre fighting is a whole lot easier from the 3rd person perspective.
ACGe0rge is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 04-15-2002, 10:25 PM   #3
Rocketman
 
Rocketman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 134
it should not be up to someone else to say what is easier and "best" for another persons tastes. i'd like to see first person saber in multi too.
Rocketman is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 04-15-2002, 10:25 PM   #4
RiverWalker
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 121
have you ever TRIED to do swordplay in first person? it works in real life because you have a larger field of vision and more of a sense of your surroundings.

the ONLY way you can get anywhere close to that in a game with the current technology, is to have third person.

you WILL not be as good in first person with a light saber, it is simply a fact, partially because you can't do some of the more acrobatic stuff in first person,

just play, you'll get used to it, first person swordplay does not work.
RiverWalker is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 04-16-2002, 01:51 AM   #5
King of Blades
 
King of Blades's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 12
Shut up, River Walker, more kills for us
King of Blades is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 04-16-2002, 02:59 AM   #6
acdcfanbill
..the wonders I have seen
 
acdcfanbill's Avatar
 
Status: Super Moderator
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Random Hell Wholes around the
Posts: 5,697
Imperialist Meatbags Guild Member The Walking Carpets Guild Member LFN Staff Member 10 year veteran! 
you never know, maybe he could beat the pants off of all of us in first person...

acdcfanbill is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 04-16-2002, 03:12 AM   #7
Raynaga
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 69
If I understand correctly the reason first person does not work with sabers at the moment is due to the fact that when using first person with your saber you change to the Kyle Model with hands and a saber, effectively making you invisible. This would be a huge advantage through a programming snafu, and by not allowing first-person with a saber in MP Raven sidestepped the problem.

--R--
Raynaga is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 04-16-2002, 09:04 AM   #8
Evil Jeff
 
Evil Jeff's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 11
Yeah? Well. if that's true it sucks. I am still very surprised and disappointed that Raven of all developers left out the option to use 1st person view in multiplay. Despite anyone's particular preferences this is a 1st person game so forcing us all to use 3rd person view with a saber is ludicrous.

And as far as preferences go, I tried playing both ways in DF2 JK and I was better in 1st person view. I kicked a lot of but with sabers so don't tell me that 3rd person is the only way to go. Of course I'm one of those odd ones who uses the mouse, keyboard, and joystick all together and it works great.

I just hope beyond hope that Raven fixes this issue with an upcoming patch. I have to say the single player game (despite some studders in outdoor scenes) was the best I've ever played. However, the multiplayer game is ranking awfully low for me right now. I'm not interested in seeing how well I can drive the remote control Jedi. I want to be in the damn game! It's a first person game so let me play in first person. If you don't want to, more power to ya. You don't have to. I want the same choice.


EVIL JEFF .\/.
Evil Jeff is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 04-16-2002, 09:13 AM   #9
GonkH8er
192.168.0.1337
 
GonkH8er's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posts: 3,927
10 year veteran! Forum Veteran LFN Staff Member 
I can pretty much assure you we wont be seeing 1st person sabers in MP... there are serious issues apparently, and I think raven will want to make patches to fix things that are wrong with the game, not add new things and create more problems


GonkH8er-
Ian@lfnetwork.com
JediKnight.net JediKnightII.net
GonkH8er is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 04-16-2002, 09:19 AM   #10
RiverWalker
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 121
why? that they were intelligent and figured out that theres no need to waste the programming time on something that one or 2 yahoos that try to make things more awkward would even use?

it is simple, this is NOT a pure FPS, when I first played Rune I found the third person view awkward as well, so in that part, I know where your coming from,

but, THINK ABOUT IT if in real life you were trying to simulate this, would you do better having a neck brace on and goggles that limit your view to 90 degrees in front of you and not able to turn your head? or being able to see around you, in 180 degrees?

"despite some studders in outdoor scenes" sounds like you had an FPS drop from having your settings too high, rather than a fault in the game.

"Of course I'm one of those odd ones who uses the mouse, keyboard, and joystick all together and it works great. " lol, no, it doesn't, lol, I thought using the arrow keys and mouse for FPS's "worked great" then I switched to ESDF for my directions when I got Tribes 2, and OH MY GOD, it was worlds better,

SIMPLICITY!

geeze... why do some people have to make things hard?
RiverWalker is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 04-21-2002, 11:04 AM   #11
Evil Jeff
 
Evil Jeff's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 11
Scuze me pinhead, but your type was already aknowledged and put aside on this issue. You may well be in the majority as to how you like to play, but that hardly makes you the voice of reason.
It only makes you a jerk by not leaving this topic alone if all you have to offer is "why don't you do it the way I do cuz my way is best"

Nobody's faulting you for wanting to play the way you want, but quite a few of us are very unhappy that a major feature of this type of game has been left out entirely. If you insist on harping about how great your methods are and that everyone should do it your way, then do it on another topic!

You may find it hard to believe, but the entire world doesn't agree with you. Especially on this issue. There are a lot of similar topics posted throughout this forum asking the same thing. "Why are we forced to play with a remote control Jedi in a first person game?" I frankly don't care if it were easier for everyone to play in 3rd person, (and I don't agree that it is). I don't want to play a first person game that way. It's stupid. It's like playin multiplayer with one of those remote control R4 units from the single player game.

If you like playin in 3rd person, then I'm happy for you and I hope you'll stay out of this issue then. You already have the features you expected. Don't deny anybody else the same courtesy.


EVIL JEFF .\/.
Evil Jeff is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 04-21-2002, 11:14 AM   #12
Assault3000
 
Assault3000's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 160
If you dont like the view on the lightsaber then dont use it. Quite simple.
Assault3000 is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 04-21-2002, 12:09 PM   #13
RiverWalker
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 121
do you want them to waste their time programming for every back asswards way of playing that anyone could conceive of?

even if it was my against the grain playstyle that was being left out, I'd rather they put their time and money into things like content, and less bugs,

it is simple. it is not possible to properly utilize a bladeded weapon in a non poking something manner in first person with the currently standard technology.

this is NOT a pure first person shooter. I've tried both ways, I really have, and being able to see your surroundings rather than just a little area in front of you, works far better when your waving a 3 foot stick of plasma (or whatever the hell it is) around

I can't, or maybe just can't let myself, understand the thought process that goes into wanting them to spend their time programming in a facet that only a fraction of a percent of the users would utilize, that would increase the load on the processor, increase the memory usage(in case you don't know anything about programming, these are bad things) and be disadvantageous to those few who DID use it. all in the name of a fraction of a percent of people and/or some desire for it to be able to be played as a pure FPS, which it's not even supposed to be!! it's supposed to be higher than that.... more classy, FPS are the knuckledragging, lowbrowest game genre there is, it always has been, the majority of them (such as quake series, Unreal series... ) are 100% "twitch-click" games, Counterstrike and Tribes are at least part of a notch less low brow, because at least they take SOME thought(tribes is best played toggling between third and first person, you can shoot better in first, but manuvering (in 3 dimensions since there is a jet pack) is better done in third, ::ghasp:: because you can have a better sense of your surroundings!!

fine, if you want to disadvantage yourself, get together with all these other people you say are upset about it, and make a mod that allows it, rather than asking the programmers waste their time on a disadvantageous "feature" that a fraction of a percent of the players want.
RiverWalker is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 04-21-2002, 12:15 PM   #14
Assault3000
 
Assault3000's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 160
I think that reply will make them think twice River.
Assault3000 is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 04-21-2002, 01:29 PM   #15
L'Equa Sinar
 
L'Equa Sinar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Leicester, Cloud City
Posts: 364
Hey, you there!!

I agree, 1stperson MP sabers would be hell, from a developer & user standpoint.....


Away with your weapon! I mean you no harm!
L'Equa Sinar is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 04-21-2002, 01:44 PM   #16
Evil Jeff
 
Evil Jeff's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 11
Doesn't make anybody think twice. What it does is yet again point out what a ego driven, vanity based wank that guy is when he won't butt out of the issue and insists on enlightening everyone on his lack of knowledge on the subject. When you get your degrees in electronic engineering and computer programming, like I have, you come back and tell me all about your well grounded knowledge and statistics on Raven and Lucasarts' customer base and programming limitations.

I don't care that you want to play with your fingers and toes crossed and a broomstick up your butt. The fact remains that forcing 3rd person view in multiplay is a limitation to the game which is in part, making the multiplay component a dissappointment for many. You wouldn't be able to relate to that unless you left your parents dark basement and logged off these forums for five minutes to step into the daylight long enough to see anyone else's point of view.

I and menu others are aware of the difficulty that Raven has with the player models they elected to utilize. That doesn't change the issue which should be addressed in some form. That may include the implementation of one choice of only player model for 1st person play. However, I'm sure you'll enlighten us further with your unsolicited, ill-informed, and off the issue opinions.


EVIL JEFF .\/.
Evil Jeff is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 04-21-2002, 01:54 PM   #17
Assault3000
 
Assault3000's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 160
The only thing your proving EJ is making a fool of yourself. Im not trying to start a flame war or anything but you need to calm down.
Assault3000 is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 04-21-2002, 02:00 PM   #18
PolarWind
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 63
My my

What's with this holier-than-thou attitude, oh Evil One? Besides, River's got a point. I think Raven would need a particularly large request for them to bother implementing 1st Person sabering in MP. It does use up more resources on the computer, does increase load time, and those ARE bad things, genius. I'm working towards a bachelor's in computer science right now, but I already knew that using up system resources on frivolous things is a waste. If you want it bad enough, make a mod for it.

Oh and by the way, just how many people want this, because this game sure as heck isn't a disappointment for me or anyone I talk to.
PolarWind is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 04-21-2002, 02:02 PM   #19
Evil Jeff
 
Evil Jeff's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 11
Bud, you should stay out of it too. You don't even have a clue that if you want to use saber in MP you must use 3rd person currently. So your earlier comments were pointless and unwarranted.
It doesn't really matter anymore anyway. These forums have gone to hell with all the clueless kids barraging them lately. It used to be a person could carry on a discussion with people who actually offered constructive input. That was back when you could still navigate these forums too. Nowadays it's way too clogged with all the constant and unneeded posts from people like you guys. You can't even find a topic one day later cuz it's buried so far beneath all the stupid statements and postulations of people like you two. So nevermind. I can't begin to compete with the amount of time you geeks dedicate to stroking yourselves on these forums. Have fun, but remember; lack of sunlight and regular baths won't impress the ladies. You remember them don't you?


EVIL JEFF .\/.
Evil Jeff is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 04-21-2002, 02:12 PM   #20
H.B.M.C.
 
H.B.M.C.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Oz
Posts: 72
Quote:
Originally posted by Evil Jeff
Of course I'm one of those odd ones who uses the mouse, keyboard, and joystick all together and it works great.
How is that even possible?

You don't have that many hands?



BYE
H.B.M.C. is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 04-21-2002, 02:13 PM   #21
Assault3000
 
Assault3000's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 160
Take your immaturity else where.
Assault3000 is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 04-21-2002, 02:30 PM   #22
RiverWalker
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 121
lol, you get a mail order programming degree?

1) I have been through a year of college for a programming degree at a major tech school, and came to the conclusion that it'd be a great hobby for me, but not as good for a career.

2) why bring up an electronic engineering degree? it has zero relevance to the discussion.

3) am I supposed to belive that you have a meaningful programming degree if you can't see that the time to make first person saber workable (if STILL dumb) in MP would not be worth it? I only had a years worth of programming classes and it's obvious that it'd be a signifigant amount of work, and system strain to put in a "feature" that is functionally inferior to what is already there.

:sigh: an ex-geek... how sad. kinda reminds me of the old guys who used to run used computer shops before the industry boomed and the bottom fell out of computers that weren't current.

I bet you $10 that the majority, if not all the development team think that the idea of using a lightsaber in first person while in multiplayer, (and single player for the most part) is simply DUMB. you lose mobility in that certain moves are NOT possible when in first person, not just hard, but not enabled. as well as that you can't see whats going on... and so on.

mouse keyboard and joystick, thats absurd, didn't you ever learn about efficiency in game controls? like where with a neintendo you can control better and faster if you put your thumb between the A and B buttons, so you don't gotta move your thumb as far? lol, the principal worked then, and works now, ASDF for direction controls is the most extreme level of it, WASD or ESDF are the more standard ones, but not QUITE as far as ASDF. but moving your whole hand between a joystick and keyboard and stuff,... thats nuts, the closest I ever had to that was playing Mechwarrior 2 or Heavy gear, and I had the controls mastered in such a way where my hand would be back on the mouse, or whatever, by time the game reacted to the controls,

whatever happened to adapting to the best strategy, in order to have fun?

remember when I made that pseudo-rant about the difference between a "newbie" and a "n00b" and said how someone could be very experienced in something, and still be a n00b....
RiverWalker is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 04-21-2002, 02:34 PM   #23
TigerShark
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: The Pacific Ocean
Posts: 6
Cool Guy

...I agree with you Evil Jeff, I want 1st person view for the real world simulation in the game.

...I also think that the acrobatic jumps should be enabled for 1st person view.

...Yes, it would be harder to do and require more skill, but that's the challange of learning. Jump boots are always fun in a game, so add the flips and make it harder.

...There could be servers for 1st person players and servers for 3rd person (puppet) players.
TigerShark is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 04-21-2002, 02:37 PM   #24
Assault3000
 
Assault3000's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 160
Raven probally wont add it in any future patch so dont expect it.
Assault3000 is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 04-21-2002, 02:45 PM   #25
TigerShark
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: The Pacific Ocean
Posts: 6
Cool Guy

...you're right, Assault3000, and I don't expect it.
TigerShark is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 04-21-2002, 02:59 PM   #26
RiverWalker
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 121
like I said before, if there is the demand, and ESPECIALLY if mr jeff is a programmer, it shouldn't be hard to make a mod that does exactly what you want,

"it would be harder to do and require more skill," well, sure, but I can't understand why you would want to make yourself learn to play with blinders on when you don't have to, this isn't a thing where you will do better with the blast sheild down,
RiverWalker is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 04-21-2002, 03:08 PM   #27
RahnDelSol
 
RahnDelSol's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 89
Seriously, is it possible for someone to post an opinion without getting flamed for it?

Personally, I wouldn't use first-person for sabers. I did in JK I, but I wouldn't here, now that I've gotten used to it in 3rd person.

But there's no need to flame those who'd like it...

Seriously, people post an idea and the first thing they hear is "OMFG ur so dumb so stfu"

None of us work for Raven, so for some of you to sit there and authoritatively say "Well, it won't work because..." is just ludicrous. Some of you might have an idea or two about programming, but you aren't in on this project...therefore your words are only speculation, not fact. You'd sound more credible if you said "I think this is why" rather than "This is why"


I'm not good enough to have a sig-line.
RahnDelSol is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 04-21-2002, 03:11 PM   #28
Con. Snake
 
Con. Snake's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 192
Mommy I hate the zoo, all the monkeys are acting stupid and crazy.
Con. Snake is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 04-21-2002, 03:33 PM   #29
StormHammer
Fallen Jedi
 
StormHammer's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Outer spiral arm of the galaxy
Posts: 5,437
10 year veteran! 
Okay, people, just calm down and try to respect each other's opinions.

RiverWalker

You stated your opinion on the matter. If you don't like first person for saber (or any other melee) combat...that's your prerogative. Some people do, including me. Simply telling someone it doesn't work, and is effectively stupid, is just your opinion, to which you are entitled, but don't try to force it on others.

Evil Jeff

There is no need to insult another member for holding a particular view. If it's a choice between flaming someone and not responding, please choose the latter.

Now, as for the point you raised...yes, I too think it would be nice to have single-player saber combat. According to Gonk (he who knows all and does not tell) there are issues implementing that in this game - for whatever reason. It's unfortunate, because I believe you could use 1st person sabers in JK's MP. You can also go into 1st person view with RUNE SP, if you can put up with not being able to see your weapons.

I always found that in JK's SP in 1st person saber combat, it was always more accurate - leading to better blaster bolt deflection, and more severed limbs. So in JK at least there were some advantages to using 1st person sabers.

The restricted view argument is pointless, because you walk around in 1st person as a gunner, and must still be situationally aware of your surroundings and other opponents. You don't necessarily have to show acrobatics in the 1st person view - Unreal Tournament does very well without it.

It would be interesting to learn the reason why it would not be possible to implement it properly in Jedi Outcast. If there is a serious issue...then simply telling someone to make a mod to do it won't suffice...because then the mod team would have to be better programmers than the development team to get something working that they could not.

Anyway, if it was possible as a mod, it's certainly one that I would consider using. To my mind, JK was all about choice in the way you could play...and Outcast has limited some of those choices to a certain extent.
StormHammer is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 04-21-2002, 06:33 PM   #30
Caster
 
Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: Mississauga, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 173
Why I dont like 1st person saber view.

Can't roll, wall jump/walk.

For the heck of it, I played through the entire single player game in 1st person view only and not being able to use the acrobatics was very limiting and forced me to mainly use only one manuever, running backwards.

And that's not exactly the most convenient of choices when there are chasms everywhere.

-Caster


Fuel burning space polluting X-Wings!
You probably have seat
belts with those shield of yours!
Caster is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 04-21-2002, 07:40 PM   #31
Evil Jeff
 
Evil Jeff's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 11
Stormhammer, wiser words I have not heard here in quite while. And I apologize to those that deserve it for the unrulyness of some of my posts. I was however, not bashing somebody's opinions, only their actions after their unwarranted and off topic opinions had been made more than clear a few times. With that said I'll go back to more important matters. I stand by my comments that these boards have gone to heck. Mostly because of their popularity and the fact they they draw so many obnoxious types that won't let anyone carry on a legitimate discussion anymore. Cya


EVIL JEFF .\/.
Evil Jeff is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Post a new thread. Add a reply to this thread. Indicate all threads in this forum as read. Subscribe to this forum. RSS feed: this forum RSS feed: all forums
Go Back   LucasForums > Network > JediKnight Series > Game Discussion > Jedi Outcast > 1st person view with saber in MP

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:07 AM.

LFNetwork, LLC ©2002-2011 - All rights reserved.
Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.