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Old 04-16-2002, 05:53 AM   #1
Retro
 
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Ballencing ideas.

Well, I've decided to make a post asking other peoples ideas on ballencing, and to post my own, and to get comments on, CONTRUCTIVE criticisim, and well, probably a bunch of flames too.

Before I begin, I'd like to state that most of my ideas are pertaining to dueling, not on duel mode, but the duel option, on FFA servers that encourage dueling.

SABRE THROW

As it is, what most peoples defence for this skill is to combat heavy stance, though thats hardly the cast in my experiance, what usually tends to happen is either someone runs backwards tossing it, constantly tries to throw it behind you and bring it back through you, or just waits until your about to swing, and then tosses it. The main problem with 2 out of 3 of these, is the fact that you can run around while tossing it.

Perhaps if you either couldn't move, or your moving speed were greatly reduced, it would have greater ballence, the main problem to this, is there wouldn't be much use as far as I can see, if you cant move, except to the 3rd thing that happens.

Here comes someone, ready to fight, he lines up and begins to swing med or light, *woooosh* there goes 30 hp, now lets do it again, wait for it, wait for it, *woooosh* another 30 hp gone. The problem being, that in a duel, your supposed to be fighting melee, not tossing your sabre around...well, ok I could be wrong, I should say, in my opinion, since thats what this entire post is about.

I really dont know how you would ballence this except by maybe increasing force usage, or making it so you could only use sabre throw once in a while. I mean come on, did you see luke or vadar running around tossing their sabres at eachother? No, you saw him toss it once at the support struts to make luke fall.


SPECIAL MOVES

Specificly, the combo moves, what incredible happens, is someone winds up, and jumps, creating a 1 hit kill unblockable rotating move. The fact that you can rotate and it will still kill in one hit is ridiculous.

It's supposed to be a very powerful move, but at the expense of speed, if you were unable to rotate, then someone whos on their toes would be able to actually sidestep, and slice you open, making this move used as a FINISHING MOVE, which I think it was meant for.

The light stance combo, isn't such a big deal since not only does it not kill in one hit, nor stay out for any long time, and IS blockable. You could make it not rotate just for the sense of fairness, wouldn't make a big difference since it's not long enough to matter.

The medium stance, in fact truely is the hardest to use, while having a much longer reload than heavy, and a much lighter damage as well. I think it's even weaker than the light stance combo, but maybe I'm wrong, I dont know. For the sake of usability, though it could also be unallowed to rotate.


Well, thats my post, I'm sure there will be a lot of flames for me, and I will probably have contradicted myself a few times. I really made this post so we could debate in an orderly manner the issues of the moves.

-Shuri
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Old 04-16-2002, 11:24 AM   #2
Jedi-Bert
 
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Force balancing ideas

now, before anyone yells, i know, its important to a light jedi,m after all, i play almost exclusivly light

i think it would be simple to balance out

rather than the

10
25
50
levels with it using 1/4 of your mana, it should be

10
20
30

with it using 1/3 of your mana


push/pull

actually, these are just find, read through the thread i stated yesterday and in there are the ways to nullify it, and then send the pusher flying

i was in a CTF bespin game, the guy pushed me like 6 times with no result, so he tried to saber me and i sent hi flying. soo much fun to out-push the pushers

drain- i dont know if i liked the idea of this force power to begin with, as far as it giving them health, because it always seemed to me that the advantage of the dark side was the immence offencive power, put no way to defend/heal
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Old 04-16-2002, 11:54 AM   #3
Chewie Bakker
 
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Medium Stance

I disagree with your view as Medium Stance being the weakest. In fact, I think it's the most versatile. It's almost as fast as light stance, and does a lot more damage than light too. It's all a matter of preference.

And in regards to saber throw, if they hurl it past you then saber throw them back. Evasive manouvers work well against them too. Saber throw is but one of a Jedi's tools.

I think almost everything is balanced as is.



"Chewie" Bakker
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Old 04-16-2002, 12:00 PM   #4
Retro
 
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Erm, I was meaning the medium special manuver, death from above, all I talked about was sabre throwing and special stances

As for sabre throw, what I was really trying to comment on, was when they wait for you to get near, try to attack, then back up and sabre throw while your swinging at them, automatic 30 hp reduction.

Anyways...more comments/flames welcome
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Old 04-16-2002, 12:41 PM   #5
Low Rent
 
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Actually I see nothing wrong with the sabre throw. I'm not a ***** of it either. It takes force to use and since that is the case then there is always a counter for it. It is annoying but I find it part of the game.

The only two things I would change are

1. Slow down the run speed a bit

2. Make it so the flip heavy stance attack requires you to plant your feet or stay on axis.
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Old 04-16-2002, 12:42 PM   #6
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i agree

too many times I've seen people dfa'ing (death from above) only and winning easily. For example, I went into an FFA server. The map was bespin streets. I went to the yard and all I saw was a bunch of crazies jumping around dfa'ing. It was a dfa fight, not a saber fight. I got owned. Problems I usually encounter with DFA are its range which is outrageously far. I could be way the hell out of the way and still get hit. Then the recovery which is outrageously dangerous. I move in for an attack during the recovery stage for that move. I don't even touch their lightsaber and I die.


too many times I've seen people winning without a single slash but with throws. Btw, no one can beat a good thrower, despite dodging and waiting for their force to deplete or slashing them when your up close.

Dodging: you don't kill them. they win eventually. Dodging is too passive, you need to hit them too win right? dogde does not = hit therefore it is not a winning idea even though it can be used blablabla but they they still win in the end.

Waiting for force to deplete: they run away and wait and wait and wait and repeat the throwing and the they run away and wait...

Slashing when your up close and their saber is thrown: when the saber travels back to them you get hit in the back. You are forced to break off because they can easily defend and repeat...

Now if you've read this i've outlined a guide to easily win against people who slash. That is bad. So I really think something should be done about this.
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Old 04-16-2002, 12:54 PM   #7
Low Rent
 
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See I totally disagree...I think people only use one mode of playing and thats why they get caught.

Use some imagination, here are some effective things to help against the throw.

Speed
Drain
lightning
mind trick
a throw
moving behind something
that shield pack.
or any combination of things...

There are a lot of ways to defeat a thrower, try some different force powers.
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Old 04-16-2002, 12:58 PM   #8
JK_Morovski
 
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the main problem with the one hit kill is that, if they miss, and theyre on kneeling on the ground they cant be hit

surely it would make more sense that if u miss that move, ur left totally open while recovering?
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Old 04-16-2002, 01:15 PM   #9
Threetall
 
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Dodge, charge, throw saber before theirs returns. keep running forward out of range and turn around. repeat.
Saber throwers absolutely hate when you move out of range then in range and attack them at their game. I called all kinds of names.
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Old 04-16-2002, 01:15 PM   #10
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They are left open.

Jump over them, hit them from behind, or from above.


The contractors on the second Death Star knew the risks when they took the job. All contractors have to take these things into consideration when they take a job--Clerks
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Old 04-16-2002, 01:45 PM   #11
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About throwing:
I think it would be cool if you could hit the sabre out of the air. But only if you use a strong enuf slash. Then their sabre would drop to the ground, and they would need to hit the attack button to recall it, but recalling it takes the same amount of force as throwing it. This way if someone uses thier last bit of force to throw and it gets knocked down, they hafto run over to where it fell to pick it up with no defense. So if your sabre gets knocked out of the air, that throw really took up twice as much force if you want it to come back to your hand.

About the heavy special move:
You all already said what would fix this, but that might be really hard to do or somethin, and thats why they shipped it all sucky. I think an easy fix would be to reduce its damage, and leave it unblockable and all the rest.
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Old 04-17-2002, 02:34 AM   #12
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Quote:
Use some imagination, here are some effective things to help against the throw.

Speed
Drain
lightning
mind trick
a throw
moving behind something
that shield pack.
or any combination of things...
I speficly said in my first post

Quote:
Before I begin, I'd like to state that most of my ideas are pertaining to dueling, not on duel mode, but the duel option, on FFA servers that encourage dueling.
Which means that you can use other force powers besides jump/throw/sabre moves.

And, in most duels, you will be in an open spot, like the pad on bespin, or a bridge like ffa_ns_streets or ctf_bespin.

Not a flame, just commenting

-Shuri
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Old 04-17-2002, 02:59 AM   #13
acdcfanbill
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well, the one thing i think they should fix for sabre throw is that i still take damage when i block it, i block and send it back to the thrower, but i still tak 9 to 12 damage... this is better than 30 mind you, but still, if you block it, how come it still hits you?? thats the one thing i would like changed about throw

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Old 04-17-2002, 03:00 AM   #14
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The only balancing needed to be done to throw is being able to knock it out of the air.

The whole 'wait till they're close and swinging' method wouldn't work then, because the swing would knock it down.

The other things (throwing it from a distance) are easily counterable by either jumping, strafing, or blocking.

The knock 'down' would have to be a good and hard knock 'down-and-away, bouncing furiously' thing though. So it would be a few seconds before it returned.
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Old 04-17-2002, 03:32 AM   #15
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It's easy to knock down the sabre in the single player game - I can do it almost every time a reborn or shadowtrooper throws it at me, but I've never seen it happen in multiplayer. The manual mentions that it can happen (but doesn't say in which version of the game).

Given that it's in single player, I wouldn't have thought it would be too difficult to put in it MP also.
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