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Old 04-28-2002, 05:22 AM   #1
keto
 
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RUNE vs. JK2

Hey , ive played rune for quite a long time now, and still really like it. and was wondering if anyone in this community of saber-battle supporters has played it. It was made by HumanHead using the unreal engine and featured vikings with swords, maces, axes, and sheilds. as far as melee fighting i think it is the best of its class even surpassing jk2 only because of the "laser" collisions. too often do duels just turn into swinging around or fishing for lucky hits, and a lot of time what looks like should have been a clean hit is denied as a saber-to-saber collsion and no damage is dealt. even the swing for the fast stance is preety slow for swinging what weights probably less than a pound. Now dont get me wrong i really enjoy the game and support more 3rd person melee based games (the crazy camera controls of games like blood omen just makes me sick to see what could be a great game unenjoyable gameplaywise because of the camera). what rune doesnt have is force powers. now me being a strictly saber fighter, i only support such force powers like speed, jump, heal, drain, and the occasional saber throw. jump in particular is really cool.

there was even a mod in the making for RUNE that was going to be starwars MP, but when it was about 90% complete and had the entire community begging for its release Lucas Arts sent a little cease and discist that crushed all of our hopes. it understandable because permission was not asked and it coudl lower the sales of jk2(yea right) but i think that MP wise it woudl have been better. Rune featured FASTER swings, what seems like better collision detection or weapons(melee only) and the mod was to have even force abilities.

so all in all i would like to hear from others hwo have played rune and were involved with the community and hear what they think of jk2 and its comparisons. aswell as to encourage you all to play Rune which runs pretty cheap now a days in stores. the community is small but never have i seen such honor. i am truely happy to see a majority of people in this community to have such honor as well .

-Keto

PS: be sure to check out some of the mods for it too like VUR(Vas Ultima Rune) one of the top RPG mods for rune. ill be lookign forward to the possible RPG mods for jk2 ... though they may get cease and dicsist because of the upcoming MMORPG starwars galaxy.
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Old 04-28-2002, 06:59 AM   #2
toolboi
 
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i was into Rune for a while, but found its MP got a l \ittle repetitive. Basically it was all strong stance, but faster. Youd run in, dodge left and swing, and slice the guys head off. I think JK2s fighting has more grace, but the MP hit detection... well... it needs to be fixed...
I realy dont see why this is so hard, its like the beam weapon in UT, if it hits, it hits.

Now for best combat period... Oni all the way. That had a fighting system to DIE for, not to mention the fact that it had some of the most impressive levels... (standing on a platform and looking up to see this beautiful bridge in the back ground, only to realize that thats where yo ustarted). If only Bungie had finished it before being bought by MS...
I would love to see a Onish system for sword fighting in JK2, two attack buttons then combinations for different moves. Of course this is impossible due to the animation systems but...
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Old 04-28-2002, 07:20 AM   #3
keto
 
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hmm oni eh? i havent played it but i remeber the ads for it. it didnt have a mp right?

yea in rune if you both have the a dwarvenlarge sword, the fighting was just as boring as if 2 heavy stanced fighters go at it and are really conservative and paranoid about being hit. the best wepaons for rune to fight with (duel wise) were the viking broadsword, tribal mace, and any of the small swords.

after writing the above post i went and played jk2 on a saber only jedi adept (so not much force use) using yellow stance, it is a fun game, especcially when going up against some one else with yellow, or taking down the occasional red. for reds it seems you just wait for them to swing and then rush them with the yellow combo swing, then back off let em swing again repeat. i woudl have liked to see a more indepth combo attack system for rune as jk2 kinda has.

i will have to check out ONi, thanks

-Keto
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Old 04-28-2002, 09:20 AM   #4
7-7ighlander
 
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Well, Rune is a great game without the mp "bugs" that plague jkii atm as well as higher damage and dismemberment *snicker*.

I still dig Rune a lot. As for comparing it to JKII, hmm I wouldn't dare until I've played jkii a lot more.
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Old 04-28-2002, 10:04 AM   #5
Thanatos
 
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I played Rune for some months to a rather big amount and my opinion concerning both the games is:

I think JKII is a lot more complex. You needed a few days to completely understand Rune and it's moves. After that its was mainly always the same.
JKII has (because of force powers more variety in it's gameplay.
For example: You might be the best one with the lightsaber, but if you cannot cope with other people's force powers. you will never be able to come close enough to hit.
And there are the guns. I mean, there is some major pain in the ass with some weapons (Flechette alt fire etc. you'll all know what I mean) but in gerneral I like the idea of using the saber do defeat people with a range advantage.

And there's one other point. Just like the difference between UT and Quake is JKII much faster than Rune.

Just my two cents...


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"I'll make weapons out of my imperfections"
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Old 04-28-2002, 06:20 PM   #6
Master Rooster
 
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Hmm... Rune? I might try it.

Also, I played a demo of Severance, and thought that was great too.

Which is better out of Severance and Rune?
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Old 04-28-2002, 07:36 PM   #7
Vision
 
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Played it for a while, and I liked it. Was a fun game. When JK2 was released I uninstalled though. If you got 10 bucks buy it and give it a try, you'll probably be dissapointed if you've played sabers on JK2 though.


I once dabbled in pacifism, not in 'nam of course...
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Old 04-28-2002, 07:52 PM   #8
Lord_FinnSon
 
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I still own Rune and it's a great game in it's own genre, but I haven't played it online(something I might try soon, because I have now ADSL). The Viking theme alone makes it unique, so that was one of the reasons I bought it.


Remember, the Force will be with you... always!
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Old 04-28-2002, 07:59 PM   #9
keto
 
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Severance:Blade of darkness had some cool things about it, stamina ,special moves, rpg elements, and a pretty good loking world, but what bothered me about it was the attacks. once you attacked forward, mid attack you couldnt move to a side or move at all you were commited to making that attack. that was preety much it but that was a huge part of the game and to constantly have to "launch" an attack you coudlnt negate made it frustrating.

the stamina system might be a good thing to add to most melee based games, being too extreme about it though sucks. for example if applied to this game all attacks with the light stance shoudl almost take no stamina away, the only thing that you woudl have to worry about stamina loss would be if you were fighting in heavy, this woudl even things out a bit for MP.
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Old 04-29-2002, 12:23 AM   #10
Kurgan
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I played Rune/RuneHOV heavily back in the day and loved them, but I can say right now that vs. JK2 it's no contest.

Sure, when you think about it, Rune had 15 melee weapons, but each of them were less complex than one stance of JK2.

JK2's lightsaber has 3 stances, making the number of moves huge, moreso than Rune.

Rune was fun with the rune powers, but they were all weapon enhancements. JK2's force powers are much more useful and complex. The gameplay is also much faster.

You didn't have blade locks or kicks in Rune. Blocking was all done with shields (that broke pretty quickly and weren't supported for a third of the weapons). JK2 all blocking is with the blade (just don't swing). Sure you could sort of block with a swinging blade in Rune, but then you can do that in JK2 as well (which often results in a blade lock, in Duel or saber challenge mode).

You also have the saber challenge, which is great.

I liked how in RuneHOV, in Arena mode you could walk around and play instruments (drums, giant horn, gong, etc) and gather weapons while you watched a battle, but it was hard to see, since you were so far away (unless you were in spectator mode). In JK you also have dueling arenas, but everyone is a spectator until you join in. In addition, you have the Saber Challenge to break up a Deathmatch game for a quick one on one duel with limited powers if you want.

Rune and JK2's single player share something in common.. they both start to get good about the middle of the campaign (starting out somewhat slow and annoying). However JK2 has guns and other items to use in addition to melee combat. Both have some goofy puzzles. JK2 has bots to train with, Rune/RuneHOV does not (unfortunately). As far as multiplayer game types are concerned, you have a lot more variety in JK2: CTF, CTY, Jedi Master, Duel, FFA, Team FFA, Holocron FFA, and of course the different force ranks. In Rune/RuneHOV you have runematch, team runematch, arena, team arena, and headball (and again, no bots). JK2 also has a lot more MP maps included out of the box, IIRC.

Rune has dismemberment in Multiplayer (hands, heads) and while a person is still alive you can cut off both their arms (they can pickup health or Bloodlust and they get them both back). JK2's dismemberment in MP is buggy, and crashes the game (Raven is working on it, they say).

Rune has a few more weapons (15 vs. JK2's 13), but they are more like stances on a single weapon (like JK2) rather than totally different weapons. Likewise there are 15 rune powers (all weapon enhancements) whereas JK2 has 15 force powers, some are weapons, others are movement enhancements or life restoring abilities.

Neither game has a "true" first person mode for melee combat in Multiplayer (Rune's is a full zoom where you can't see your own weapons; JK2 has first person saber only in Single player).

Rune/RuneHOV uses the Unreal engine, which as long as you have a good video card and plenty of ram, is a great engine and not that taxing on modern systems. JK2 however will push even modern systems (its a much newer game as well). Rune/RuneHOV is pretty much as patched as its going to get, but you have lots of levels and a few mods (coop, Capture the Torch, etc), whereas JK2 is much newer and has far fewer mods (the tools were just released after all).

They're both good games, I'll admit.

So in short, if you like melee combat, I think JK2's is more complex and you have a lot more replay value and variety overall, although if you like the Viking theme better than Star Wars, Rune (with RuneHOV) is your game.

My real model of "sword fighting goodness" in video games is the "bushido blade" series (the first two are on the PSX). JK2 features some elements from those games, in the saber stances, blade locking, duel mode, and "wounded arm" thing (which seems not to be a bug, since it goes away after awhile).
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Old 04-29-2002, 04:41 AM   #11
keto
 
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wow that was a great comaprrision, though for my persoanl preferenc ei negate all non-melee weapons , and most force power as i didnt use rune powers in rune aswell. i agree with you thoug the stance are great and more complex than that of rune, and jumping ... oh jumping is freaking awesome. my prefernce of melee comes from the desire for honorable play, you look at any of the fps games out now in MP the main "stragety" is you see something move and shoot shoot shoot at it until it stops moving. with swords or other melee weaposn you have to get in their face know who they are and what they have to fight against you with.

sure there were no bots in rune, well unless you summoned some fo the sp pawns in and mp game but the bots for jk2 arent the greatest either. main problem they play like its quake constantly running from you to pick up health and sheilds, take a swing at you they run off again. atleast in rune the script pawns main goal was to cut you down regardless of how much hp they had (especially the berserker was a good fight).

i think it woud be really cool to see a rune mod or atleats a mod with various other melee based weapons. with the animation sytems/stance system of jk2 i think it woudl really compliement it.

the bushido blade series is fun but i think has the same (but lessend) problem of severance, you are commited to an attack. i havent played the 2nd one so they may have changed it but regardless it was a fun game.
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Old 04-29-2002, 06:30 AM   #12
toolboi
 
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it didnt have a mp right?

No, after Bungie was bought by Microsoft they rushed out the rest of Oni, eliminating MP play (even though every one who played their MP said that it was amazing), and cutting the size of the game by 20 levels (thus also eliminating the plot quallity that Bungie is known for).


yea in rune if you both have the a dwarvenlarge sword, the fighting was just as boring as if 2 heavy stanced fighters go at it and are really conservative and paranoid about being hit. the best wepaons for rune to fight with (duel wise) were the viking broadsword, tribal mace, and any of the small swords.


Dude, I used to own on that game because Id use the viking broadsword. It was WAY too cheap. Turn on aim lock in a duel with a dwarven sheild and that sword and yo uare invincible, it becomes a matter of getting behind them or destroying their sheild.

And I agree, JK2 is WAY more complex, even with only one melee weapon.
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