What's everyone think of Kyle?

Cursim Mortis · 05-03-2002, 10:20 AM

What is everyone's opinion of Kyle Katarn? He wasn't much in Dark Forces, in JK1 He was AWESOME! ("Dark side? I been there... do your worst" Great Line!), especially in the Dark Side Ending. In JK2, IMHO (Having only played up to the Nar Shadaa Scene thus far mind you), he's cool, but not as as cool as he was in JK1. He seems to not like Jedi's or the force, which bothers me somewhat.

What does everyont else think?

Cursim

BS - soundwave · 05-03-2002, 10:35 AM

He's pretty cheesy, but then so was Luke Skywalker.

Cursim Mortis · 05-03-2002, 04:24 PM

*Bump*

Jedi Marso · 05-03-2002, 04:27 PM

Kyle is a great character who has suffered a bit from being used by a diverse group of development teams. I agree that the JK1 team got his characterization down pat.

What would have been nice would have been to get the actors from JK1 to do the voice work for JO in order to have more continuity. Plus, the scripting could have been better.

Although it's a bit much to ask, I would have loved to have seen Jason and Angela return for live-action cutscenes. The in-game cinematics would have been harder but the cutscenes using the game engine always come off seeming crappy to me. (Not just in JO but in every game, more or less). The best scenes in JO were the ones of the starships and so forth, which were rendered differently.

Katarn is a great character, but his personality has been twisted and tweaked a bit too much over the course of four games, including MotS.

*Kurgan* · 05-03-2002, 04:40 PM

He was a fun character and I've always liked him. I guess a lot of his charisma comes from his one-liners (in the tradition of Duke Nukem and all the action movie heroes from Schwarzenegger to Stallone) and the familiarity, having played as him through all those great games.

I like him. ; )

Cursim Mortis · 05-03-2002, 06:29 PM

I agree Jedi Marso! The live action cutscenes in JK1 were my favorite and the actors were perfect. It would have been awesome if they could have done the voicework throughout (including MotS, which had crappy cutscenes and voices IMHO).

Cursim

toolboi · 05-03-2002, 06:47 PM

He sucked ass in JK2, but you have to remember the type of characters that Im comparing him too...
Durandal
Any one in FF3 (esp. Kefka)
The Deus Ex guy
Any one in Fallout

The real problem with Kyle was that the script sucked. I love how after swearing to never reveal the valley of the jedi, and never to use the force gain all they have to do is kill Jan and he goes back without a second thought.

Xanthos · 05-03-2002, 07:15 PM

I said this somewhere else... he sucks. A lot. And he needs a shave. And he can get Luke in the bum too, cuz he sucks too. Sorry thats just my opinion on things, but they need a freakin Jedi Knight Hero who isn't a complete fairy jedi. We need some cool jedi heros before I start throwing darts at a printed out picture of Kyles face.

Harsh? Yea, I guess so. But Luke and Kyle are the corniest jedi's I've ever heard of. Maybe cause they are "young".

All the dark side guys are cool, cuz they play it cool and look cool. But Obi and Qui Gon were cool light side jedis. What I mean by "cool" is their characters were layed back, more quiet or when they speak it doesn't sound like total crap. They acted superior and they know they are superior. While Kyle and Luke are just... gay.

NewBJedi · 05-03-2002, 08:35 PM

I haven't finished the SP - I play mostly MP.

To my understanding Kyle gets the chick, right?

What more is there to like?

Desslock · 05-03-2002, 08:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by NewBJedi
I haven't finished the SP - I play mostly MP.

To my understanding Kyle gets the chick, right?

What more is there to like?

That the chick is human and not... rodian...

I have to agree that I disliked Kyle a bit in this one too. He didn't seem fairy like, its just that it tried to mimic JKI, and it kind of flunked, with a 55. Not extremely bad, but not good by any means.

Personally, I would've been happy if Kyle 'looked' badass and had a badass voice. But hell, this is Star Wars.. The light side is the equivilent to the 60's hippies, just the acid trips are controlled and manipulated

Jedi Marso · 05-03-2002, 09:51 PM

If I had my way, MotS would never have involved Kyle going to the dark side as a mere plot device. There were three better options for MotS:

1. Use Kyle all the way through, in character, as a light Jedi.

2. Run the expansion with Kyle as a Sith Lord, having gone to the dark side in JK1. The whole expansion pack could have been his quest to train Sariss, wipe out the Jedi, and re-establish the Empire with Kyle at the helm.

3. Run a Mara Jade campaign (and not a hodge-podge of missions) while leaving Kyle out of it completely. Kyle and Mara are probably my two favorite EU characters, but they don't mesh well in the EU as it is written.

Jedi Outcast has a neat storyline, but it only serves the following purposes: It allows homage to the original Dark Forces in the first four levels, and then forces Kyle to build up the Force powers as he goes (again). It is really an opportunity to use some of the new weapons, although you don't get those when you really need them, which is pre-lightsaber.

How would I have done JO? The storyline would have been different, but I would have had Kyle start as a Jedi Knight, made the force powers configurable as you go, and perhaps taken his lightsaber away for a level or two (or perhaps made him find a new one for some color variety) which would have allowed him to use the new weapons. If the Force powers needed to go or be dulled for a while, there is no reason an Ysalamiri couldn't appear in the SP game.

kefkafloyd · 05-03-2002, 10:07 PM

Time is taking its toll on Kyle Katarn. Ever notice that his hair is starting to go gray? He's got to be getting near 40 in JK2.

I also agree about the live cutscenes - the only game I've really seen that has good "Engine" Cutscenes is RTCW. They're better than JK2's, at least.

Madcow · 05-04-2002, 12:14 AM

I think we need a new hero, this time a sith. everyone loves a sith, especially a big overlord reptile sith with a nice red spiky throne room and a red saber.

Azrael · 05-04-2002, 12:19 AM

This is a little off topic, but I thought Desann was a little...odd. What would have been cool is if he were, like, an old friend of Kyle's, or an acquaitance of some kind. I didn't feel satisfied when Kyle ripped Desann a new one. Not quite the same as when Kyle throws Jerec his lightsaber so he can cut him down, or when Yun sacrifices his life to allow Kyle and Sariss to fight like Jedi. *sigh* I need to get JK back from my friend. It was one of the best games I've ever played. Didn't they have the coolest FMV movies? Only game that has!

Ben_Walker · 05-04-2002, 03:06 AM

I'm just gonna put down what I think LucasArts should have down In MotS. [all though I haven't played it] This might be a little off topic but it just came to me while reading this thread.

1: Make it have more game episodes. Like these....

- Temple Of The Sith: Light side Kyle has located the Temple of the Sith from MotS. He has to face dark Jedi, those Sith statues and the bosses can be a dark side clone of himself and a clone of Palpatine or Luke. [he dosen't turn to the dark side in this one]

- Trail Of The Dark Side: Emperor Katarn is ruling the galaxy with Sariss as his second in command. However on a remote planet, a race of Force sensitive aliens and humans have started to learn how to use the Force. Emperor Katarn has gone to the moon to destroy the looming threat of these rising Jedi knights.

- Underworld: *Set when Kyle was a light Jedi* As Mara Jade learns how to master her Force abilities, she has been given an assignment that will lead her to a smuggling ring, a mercenary team and a mysterious leader who happens to be a dark Jedi.

- Retemption From The Darkness: After Emperor Katarn had come to power, Mara Jade had joined the reborn Empire but only to be betrayed by the new emperor. She was thought to be dead. But she is alive. Now Mara Jade plans to strike back at the Empire but she will have to join forces with the Rebellion and become a Jedi of the light side.

2: Either have Force powers that can be used conventionally in the game or have the MotS powers and have levels that let you use the powers with more use.

3: Have the actors from JK1 do the voices.

Mr. White · 05-04-2002, 03:53 AM

It seems to me that the Kyle in JO was marketed a little softer so it would leave the younger market open with out public and media scrunity, and I cannot blame them. But I, as an"adult" (meaning old enough to drive, but not old enough to drink, although close

) I would have loved to see Kyle fit his role of mercernary tighter. A little closer to bounty hunter than comic book superhero. A more "I'm only in this for the money, princess" type attitude, with more questions answered with his blaster than morals, ect, ect.

In general I like Kyle, but for my personal prefrence, I would have made him a little rougher around the edges.

CBrate · 05-04-2002, 08:26 AM

I tend to agree with Desann about Kyle. Not too impressive and still looks like a bantha herder.

Nill the Mean · 05-04-2002, 08:52 AM

I think Kyle would be more suited to complaining about having ass-gas or help old ladies cross the street. He's like the kind of father that doesn't know how to work the remote and makes you feel silly in front of your mates with his idiocy.
His script, as almost everyone else's in this game, was totally ****e. Even the first time I played SP I felt compelled to skip the drivel. Nothing but corny cliche's and half thought out one-liners. With a right crappy ending too... Kyle gets girl, makes lame joke, game over. That part where he says "Just doing a days work, Jan" after the bridge explodes in LVL 1... me and my friends were suitably annoyed by the lack of humor in this statement.
It's like I have heard every line of text used somewhere else before.
The SP story is utter wank.
Kyle has NO personality.
The gameplay is masterful.

Trahern Valley · 05-04-2002, 10:26 AM

JO is the first in the 'series' I've played, so this is the first I've heard about different voice talent and live action cutscenes. Recognised Kyle's voice from Force Commander. Wonder if they have those cutscenes available on a website somewhere by now...

It must be hard to write a story about jedi when they are supposed to be dozens instead of thousands, so I'm not surprised by a character like Kyle. I think they did what they could. I still think the next one should be about Tavion, whatever she gets up to after her exit from JO. Starting the game with lightsaber and dark side powers would be a vast improvement. When I try to replay the game on a harder difficulty, I always get annoyed with those first few levels. Shooting bad guys is not what it's all about, for smeg's sake!

Darth Skyw@lker · 05-04-2002, 01:43 PM

I prefer LUKE !!!!
LUKE is the best, KYLE is... notrhing compared to luke

avenger_au · 05-04-2002, 01:53 PM

Quote:

LUKE is the best

Luke spent a lot of time whining though:

* "aunt beroooo"
* "nooooooooo!" (obi-wan dies )
* "ow my hand!"
* "you're not my father" *cry* *cry* *slip* *fall*
* "from a certain point of view?!"

erm.. I can't remember the rest of ROTJ where he whined - but I am sure he whined a lot.

I'm a bigger fan of Lando. They need to make a game where Lando is in his youth (with a physically impossible Afro) and running a nightclub full of disco tunes. It would be like Sim-Lando.

Obi-Wan X · 05-04-2002, 02:28 PM

Yea, I agree mostly on some of the points made. In JK1, Kyle was actually pretty cool as far as jedi go after ROTJ. I think Luke sucks personally. I personally think that Obi-Wan ( Padawan) and Qui-Gon are actually pretty damn cool. Luke just whines and looks to goofy for my taste. ROTFL, I remember when Luke came in Jabbas place talkin ****. He came in looking pretty goofy in those black clothes, and started saying that he would kill Jabba. Funny how he then fell in that hole, looking like a complete fool when he fell in that pit. He then proceeded to run like a fool and throw rocks at the creature, then screaming at the guards. He is what we call in JO, a newb

.

Hateplow · 05-04-2002, 04:38 PM

Omfg, please dont ever post in blue again.

Trahern Valley · 05-05-2002, 11:52 AM

Seconded!

Reverse · 05-05-2002, 12:35 PM

i prefer Jan, reoooooow!

avenger_au · 05-06-2002, 12:18 PM

To continue my diatribe against Luke:

(this is wholesale ripped off from someone else, and has probably been passed around via email one gajillion times - rough estimate)

The TRUE ending to "the Empire Strikes Back":
A furious lightsaber duel is underway. DARTH VADER is backing LUKE SKYWALKER towards the end of the gantry. A quick move by Vader, chops off Luke's hand! It goes spinning off into the ventilation shaft. Luke backs away. He looks around, but realizes there's nowhere to go but straight down.
Darth Vader: Obi Wan never told you what happened to your father.
Luke: He told me enough! He told me you killed him!
Darth Vader: No... I am your father!
Luke: No, it's not true! It's impossible.
Darth Vader: Search your feelings... you know it to be true...
Luke: NO!
Darth Vader: Yes, it is true.. and you know what else? You know that brass droid of yours?
Luke: Threepio?
Darth Vader: Yes... Threepio... I built him...when I was 7 years old...
Luke: No...
Darth Vader: Seven years old! And what have you done? Look at yourself, no hand, no job, and couldn't even levitate your own ship out of the swamp...
Luke: I destroyed your precious Death Star!
Darth Vader: When you were 20! When I was 10, I single-handedly destroyed a Trade Federation Droid Control ship!
Luke: Well, it's not my fault...
Darth Vader: Oh, here we go... "Poor me... my father never gave me what I wanted for my birthday... boo hoo, my daddy's the Dark Lord of the Sith... waahhh wahhh!"
Luke: Shut up...
Darth Vader: You're a slacker! By the time I was you're age, I had exterminated the Jedi knights!
Luke: I used to race my T-16 through Beggar's Canyon!
Darth Vader: Oh, for the love of the Emperor... 10 years old, winner of the Boonta Eve Open... Only human to ever fly a Pod Racer...right here baby!
Luke looks down the shaft. Takes a step towards it.
Darth Vader: I was wrong... You're not my kid... I don't know whose you are, but you sure ain't mine...
Luke takes a step off the platform, hesitates, then plunges down the shaft.
Darth Vader looks after him.
Darth Vader: Get a haircut!

See above post for my preferred choice - Lando.

D'akt Sangwar · 05-06-2002, 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by CBrate
I tend to agree with Desann about Kyle. Not too impressive and still looks like a bantha herder.

i whole heartidly agree
thats y i had to spruce him up with those merc skin downloads

Damar Stiehl · 05-06-2002, 12:34 PM

ROFLMAO about the true ending of the "TESB". That is so perfect. LOL.

As for Kyle. He's all right I think, not quite the Nameless One or JC Denton, but all right... IMHO his decision to go back to the Valley after Jan's apparent demise only showed his human falliability and how much his Jedi mindset deteriorated.

He looked a bit annoying too until I replaced his skin with the "Dark Kyle" skin - he now wears a darker suit with dark-blue shoulder pad. Looks more suited for his escapades than the nerf-herder outfit.

Leagle · 05-06-2002, 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mr. White
old enough to drive, but not old enough to drink, although close

lol, other way round.

would have made him a little rougher around the edges. [/QUOTE]

He is supposed to be a little insane when it comes to the empire. You murdered all those stormies who surrendered, right?

And if ypu read the readme, he's under flak from the NRI for slaughtering Imperials.