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Old 05-07-2002, 01:18 AM   #41
Rogue74
 
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There wasn't a thing wrong before with the backflip, they basically ruined one of the moves in the game!

New MP maps, big deal, they're just duel maps. Why not include new maps for the different game types?!

So far I'm not impressed.
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Old 05-07-2002, 01:20 AM   #42
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I wonder what monkeys were used for information to create this patch. Many bad changes IMO.

And now I'm reading that medium stance is harder to use. Great. Thats the stance I always use. And I was complaining about Heavy Stance, now my stance is weakened making Heavy Stance even worse to go against.

About the only semi-good change was the jumpkick thing. I know quite a few people who whore the jumpkick thing but using it and then doing a top-down swing using Heavy Stance for the 1-hit kill. Atleast that has been stopped or made less easy. Although I liked using jumpkick to get away or knock people off ledges.
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Old 05-07-2002, 01:21 AM   #43
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WTF Raven!?

Oh for god sakes, as if the JK2 guns weren't weak enough. 8 up to 25 for 2nd HR fire is more then a slight correction don't you think? Seriously, the guns were weak enough.

Yeah, I could agree with the FC1 and DFE being tweaked but gimme a break. Same thing goes for drain. But JK2 guns were already a joke compared to UT/Q3 and you whent to far "balancing" healing.

The sabers are weaker now and saber combat will be slower and in tighter spacing. Guess what, that will make the saberist even easier targets for gunners whether you nerfed the guns or not.

-The guns are a joke compared to other FPS
-The forces are weak compared to JK
-There's definately a shortage of ammo on the maps

Thanks for making the game that had the potential to be better then JK into a newbie brained joke.

If you keep "balancing" things, everyone will tie because nothing will do anything.
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Old 05-07-2002, 01:24 AM   #44
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Longer saber battles=Good

I prefer drawn out battles, not kill as many as you can with dfa in 20 minutes.


I once dabbled in pacifism, not in 'nam of course...
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Old 05-07-2002, 01:25 AM   #45
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I think the best thing we can all do is run servers without the patch until Raven stops ruining the game and ACTUALLY LISTENS to us about what to change. Its like they pulled the ideas out of their butts and said "hey, lets change this and piss everyone off"
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Old 05-07-2002, 01:32 AM   #46
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How about we all play the game with the new patch LONGER THAN 1 HOUR before making any hasty decisions. Change doesn't always mean the game gets worse. Just get used to the new Saber combat. The true master is the one who adapts.
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Old 05-07-2002, 01:32 AM   #47
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Dude

What's wrong with you people? I've yet to play the patch (seemingly like many of the people who are knocking it) but many of these changes were definitely frequently requested on these forums. We should thank Raven for listening, and now you're all gonna act like they made this **** up? Jeez.

~Jedi


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Old 05-07-2002, 01:34 AM   #48
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Good idea. I think I'll have our hosting company hold off on patching the WD server.

Raven, you'd better release another patch and un-nerf the guns. While you're at it, make it so you can regen force while using powers.

Seriously though, you're already damaging the MP community. No one wants to play a game that's just to weak so that newbies can do well running round swinging saber with no idea of what's going on. Stop listening to the whiners and just make it good for god sakes.
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Old 05-07-2002, 01:35 AM   #49
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I personally didn't like the patch at first...after I started duking it out w/ a frined we saw the potential behind it. Either way I think the kick thing was uncalled for. I like the absorb thing, that'll prevent force spams...So far so good, but like some guy said on top,, I think Medium got screwed a bit..Its still fun and still needs to get used to it but I liked the other medium better.

To peeps complaining that they don't listen to us. Check the boards please, everyone's been complaining about drainwhoring and healslutting since the game came out.
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Old 05-07-2002, 01:38 AM   #50
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I LOVE RAVEN!

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Old 05-07-2002, 01:38 AM   #51
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I'm having a hard time parrying opponent attacks out when my ping is anytihng above 100, very hard to time your own attack to clash with the other guy's attack when you're not playing in zero ping conditions...

I switched to a simple script to get around the odd double click jump backflip change, you can still kick people down easily with a single click using the 2 side jumps though, these are easy enough to execute thanks to the game's third person perspective.

The last thing I noticed this patch did was make saber throw a _really_ important skill to take.

I'm interested to see if this splits the community up into a group that plays patched servers, and people who don't... I'm guessing this will happen since the game has changed so drastically.
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Old 05-07-2002, 01:38 AM   #52
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Maybe people will be more careful about what they ask for on the forums now.. you know what they say: "Be careful what you ask for, you just might get it."
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Old 05-07-2002, 01:39 AM   #53
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Just played a bit more and i am now convinced, the game has been turned into a total utter peice of CRAP. The new saber system is a complete joke, no fun whatsoever anymore. I am uninstalling and will reinstall without the patch, theres no way i will play like that again.

This patch needs to be sent back to hell where it came from, hopefully next time Raven will be smart and not hire Satan to do their programming.
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Old 05-07-2002, 01:41 AM   #54
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Quote:
I LOVE RAVEN!
Yay NewB!!! All people who read this and are disgusted by the whining, don't complain about it, just insert your usless, but positive spam!!

RAVEN RULES!!!


Vestril was here!!!!!!!!!
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Old 05-07-2002, 01:42 AM   #55
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Heh, actually I noticed practically nothing changed with medium, but that's probably because I dont use the twirl move. Heavy is a lot more risky now! Against a smart player, heavy blows will be blocked most of the time. (I was playing against Desann, he couldn't hit me unless he was medium or light.) Saber fights are a lot more longer and much more like SP. And don't tell me I am a newbie, because I won a fair share of matches on duel servers and FFA without abusing heavy DFA. Give the patch some time! You'll like it. (Note: I didn't try guns.)

Besides, like that guy said, the true master adapts...........
So have I...............


Sue, it's the American way!- I forgot.
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Old 05-07-2002, 01:46 AM   #56
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You can still do some twirls with medium, try a forward slash followed by a right strafing attack. Or a left strafe/forward slash followed by a left strafing attack.

I almost always use medium, and when I use it I never use the twirls, just regular slash combos so it's basically the same for me.
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Old 05-07-2002, 01:46 AM   #57
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I like what they've done with this.

You can still DFA, just can't aim in-air. GOOD (anyone know if they nerfed the area effect?)
Yellow is MUCH MORE controlled, and you can still do a spin move, albeit slower and it's not automatic. GOOD.

In terms of control, Blue is almost where Yellow was. GOOD.

Red now has 2-swing combos (!). AND a slow-assed spin move. Deadly, if used right. But SLOOOOW, so it's gotta be used in the right situation. GOOD.

I think this patch promotes the use of ALL stances now, instead of those who stuck with Yel or Red only. The really good players will make their mark by utilizing ALL of the stances.

My only gripe is that they didn't make it backwards compatible. Would be nice to have a choice of playing styles/controls, so we could play 'old style' when we wanted.....
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Old 05-07-2002, 01:48 AM   #58
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Wow guys, sounds like a great patch, I sure can't wait to download it.

Oh wait, nevermind I already did...

I guess I'll just install it now...
Hmm, what's this?

"Directory is invalid! Target files could not be created."

Better check the readme file.

Says here that if it can't find the files I should try to reinstall the game. Ok. Here goes.

Well I just finished reinstalling it. Now for the big moment.
Hmm, what's this?

"Directory is invalid! Target files could not be created."

Maybe its a corrupted file, I'll try downloading it again.

Oh, my God. It still won't work.

Enough politeness, its now time for obscenities:



WHY!!! WHY DOES THIS HAPPEN!!??
OH FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, WHY!!!

*ahem*

Can someone help me?
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Old 05-07-2002, 01:50 AM   #59
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personally the game was fine the way it was

now the jkded server doesn't work worth crap.. and they have added saber throwing which is a force
but they added it as not a force. go ****ing figure. Duels are ruined by endless spamming of saber throw when someone gets down to under 15 health.

almost impossible to do DFA. Which was fine from the beginnig. Except the endless nebie spammning complaing about it cause they can't dodge it, which you can. You can also counter it easily.

The game is ****ed from the get go. Other then that everything is humky dora..

Of course this is just my opinion of it.. Everyone has the own opinion.
peace out
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Old 05-07-2002, 01:50 AM   #60
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What the hell is wrong with some of you people? You bitch when there's no patch, you bitch when there is a patch. Christ - the game was great fun even pre-fix; probably the most bug free release I've seen in a long time.

They've solved pretty much every issue that existed with an already great game. Guns were imbalanced. Drain and Heal were overbalanced. Now they're not. And you still aren't happy?!
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Old 05-07-2002, 01:51 AM   #61
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The patch is cool, now all you server admins please hook it up so I can start playing more than bots.
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Old 05-07-2002, 01:56 AM   #62
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Ok I got the skinny. Heavy does suck now, but they added stuff for it.

It has ALOT more depth and strategy to it now.

Guess what? Heavy has 2 swing combos now(even lucky 3 swings ones too, haven't been able to get those down yet though)

Heres the deal with heavy now though, you hold the button instead of just tapping it once per swing. This achieves a double swing, and you can combo such moves as a circle swing(forward/anystrafe+that strafe direction, while holding fire)

Also, DFA is accomplished by jumping with the mouse fire button held now. You cannot swing in circles, and it doesn't kill in one hit even if you get a direct hit on someone

BLOCKING IS OUTRAGEOUS! Its ridiculous how easy it is to block now.

The force power nerfs are in-After you drain someone of their full force power, your whole force bar is almost gone.

Did you drain someone and grip them? Even though you can't grip them after drain(too much force used)...Grip is very slow now anyway.

They have nerfed grip to DEATH. You walk VERY slow now, its very easy to push/pull out of a grip.

Heal is very nerfed as well, way over the edge.

Light is good now, it'll be the spam for the millenium

With the new heavy style combos, during the end of your second heavy swing you can do a dfa, so thats one free swing and one free blockbuster move(i dunno if its much of a blockbuster anymore)

I haven't played all the duel maps, just duel_temple right now. Its the final level in single player jo(slightly different)...has the final music too.

But you guys can see for yourselves. I'd just thought I'd mention the depth that they gave heavy now. No more click and run towards your enemy, it requires thinking.


I once dabbled in pacifism, not in 'nam of course...
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Old 05-07-2002, 01:56 AM   #63
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Guns unbalanced? Bleh try again. Ever think that maybe you got killed with guns not because the guns were to powerfull, but because you weren't that great of a player?

Most people already thought the Jk2 guns were a lame version of UT's, the patch has made it worse...
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Old 05-07-2002, 02:00 AM   #64
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Quote:
Originally posted by Vestril


Yay NewB!!! All people who read this and are disgusted by the whining, don't complain about it, just insert your usless, but positive spam!!

RAVEN RULES!!!
And we should quote each other.

RAVEN OWNS YOU ALL!
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Old 05-07-2002, 02:02 AM   #65
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I'll keep it short: This patch was the best thing that could have happened. (Yes, I've played with it.)
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Old 05-07-2002, 02:04 AM   #66
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Raven, you'd better release another patch and un-nerf the guns. While you're at it, make it so you can regen force while using powers.
They made a product, you bought it. Live with it. Or don't play it. Making demands of a developer that you in no way control will get you nowhere. Perhaps try a calm suggestion. Or maybe even an occasional thank you for the countless hours these people spent on a game that the people wanted and seem to enjoy. Do you think they owe you something? These people spend their time on something for you. They don't have to patch this game. They could take their check and leave it all behind, but they listen to the people and attempt to fix things the majority seems to dislike.

Quote:
-The guns are a joke compared to other FPS
If you'd like to use the guns in another FPS, why not buy said FPS and play it.

Quote:
ACTUALLY LISTENS to us about what to change. Its like they pulled the ideas out of their butts and said "hey, lets change this and piss everyone off"
Raven has been more active in these forums and more in tune with what the community wants than any other game developer I've ever seen. Months before release they'd drop by the forums and answer questions and concerns. Then, after the release they continued to support the community. One of them released a few strategy guides the day the game was released. And I doubt anyone was holding a gun to his head. ChangKhan has 298 posts, the last of which was 4 days ago. He registered on the 8th of August, 2001. He's been here, listening and answering for quite a while. If pissing people off were their goal, they would have stopped production the day before the game was supposed to be released. Or, they truly would ignore the community and do nothing for this game.

Don't bite the hand that feeds you. And remember that the developer does not revolve around you. Your needs and wants don't overrule the a)majority or b)the creators vision. This company has spent more time listening to us piss and moan then I ever would.
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Old 05-07-2002, 02:10 AM   #67
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I've answered this before, the force was what made JK1 worth playing over other games. JK2 forces makes it better then quake but not like the way JK1 forces did, not by a long shot.

Now they've nerfed the guns so bad that with or without sabers and force, JK2 might not be worth playing over other games.
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Old 05-07-2002, 02:11 AM   #68
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Quote:
Originally posted by SpaceRain
I'll keep it short: This patch was the best thing that could have happened. (Yes, I've played with it.)
Yay!
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Old 05-07-2002, 02:11 AM   #69
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Geez does nothing satisfy you people? They're fixing all the problems that we were whining about, but its never good enough for you folks. Install the damn patch. If you dont like it then dont freakin play it (reinstall w/ the old version). Learn how to adapt you morons.
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Old 05-07-2002, 02:12 AM   #70
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Quote:
Originally posted by NoodlyGod
Raven has been more active in these forums and more in tune with what the community wants than any other game developer I've ever seen. Months before release they'd drop by the forums and answer questions and concerns. Then, after the release they continued to support the community. One of them released a few strategy guides the day the game was released. And I doubt anyone was holding a gun to his head. ChangKhan has 298 posts, the last of which was 4 days ago. He registered on the 8th of August, 2001. He's been here, listening and answering for quite a while. If pissing people off were their goal, they would have stopped production the day before the game was supposed to be released. Or, they truly would ignore the community and do nothing for this game.

Don't bite the hand that feeds you. And remember that the developer does not revolve around you. Your needs and wants don't overrule the a)majority or b)the creators vision. This company has spent more time listening to us piss and moan then I ever would.
Very well said.
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Old 05-07-2002, 02:15 AM   #71
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Amen, brotha. Just smacked down some bots with the patch, seems like the new style is cool.

~Jedi


My name is Jonas.
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Old 05-07-2002, 02:16 AM   #72
NerfYoda
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Quote:
Originally posted by NoodlyGod
Don't bite the hand that feeds you. And remember that the developer does not revolve around you. Your needs and wants don't overrule the a)majority or b)the creators vision. This company has spent more time listening to us piss and moan then I ever would.
HARRUMPH!! HARRUMPH!!!
Hey i didnt get a harrumph outta that guy!
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Old 05-07-2002, 02:22 AM   #73
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HARRUMPH!! =)
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Old 05-07-2002, 02:29 AM   #74
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Okay, this thread is cool and all, but later we need to have a separate "I actually gave the patch a chance and NOW I'm commenting on it" thread. Sheesh, alot of ppl complaining about this patch, and I can tell that most have not even tried it. I HAVE tried it, and I think that they did EXACTLY what they said in the readme, which is make the saber fighting alot more like single player. So whatever you think about single player sabering is what you will probably think about multiplayer sabering. I happen to like it, since its much more cinematic and less "jump around and swing like a monkey to win." As far as guns, who cares. Play Quake3 if you want to fight with guns.
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Old 05-07-2002, 02:36 AM   #75
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Of all the people above, I think Vision gave most thought to his answer. That's not to say I agree with him but at least his answer wasn't a bitching /whining fest. One thing worth noting is that when you attack with red, you're momentarily slowed and the peak of the attack. This means you wont be able to chase someone with red if they wish to run away. It also makes evading red attacks easier.

Blocking as already said seems very easy, but part of this maybe Illusion because you'll have to time your attacks better to cause the full damage (30 / 60 / 100), than you did before in 1.02 version. That's why the battles take longer, this will also slightly balance the nerfed drain / heal because you'll have more time to use them.

All in all I like it, even if it's too early to say how the changes will affect play balance. Everyone should understand that, even if they feel liking dissing Raven for what they did (or praising them for that matter). Anyhow a patch is out and I think most of us can agree it was needed, it shows they care and that it will not likely be the last patch from them.

Etz out
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Old 05-07-2002, 02:47 AM   #76
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God damn it people

Come on people i agree with most of the updates. Im a lightsider myself and really think the heal was the cheap way to stay alive, the dark side doesnt have that ability (drain yeah ok... but not really). The guns were cheap all u had to do was grab a blaster and find a pack of sabering people and u got urself some easy kills. Very cheap tactic btw. but the changes are basically saying now you must pay a more addiquite price for such power. But so far what ive seen is everything is fair ESPPECIALLY the absorb. u turn it on and battle and then no one forces u. but u run out of force or turn it off and they know that now is the time to force u and u just get gripped or zapped or whatever and that is usually enough time to be gripped off a ledge or whatever... get my point??? The game is much better. i love the patch.

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Old 05-07-2002, 02:48 AM   #77
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Id say that the patch was pretty good overall.
- I like how they took th SP lighsaber attack animations and put them into multiplayer. I always thought there was too much spinning in all the old MP lightsaber moves anyway.
- Also drain is pretty well balanced now.
- However, I do think that they nerfed heal a little too hard from what I've been reading, even from my own darkside point of view. It's now 1/4 as force efficient as it used to be at the highest level.
- They changed force grip so that you can no longer run while gripping at level 3. Instead you only walk rather slowly now. That should help reduce the number of grippers running people off the cliffs all of the time. This was a wise change.
- Strong saber stance isn't as insaine with the one hit tap kills anymore, and in general all the moves seem less lethal. Blocking as a whole seems to occur much more frequently. Dules are much longer and I'm not sure that I'm totaly happy/ adjusted to this yet.
- The force absorb change was also smart, giving the light side a little more of an edge.

I haven't tried the new maps yet but I'd say that this was a good patch in terms of multiplayer balance and lightsaber duels.
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Old 05-07-2002, 02:50 AM   #78
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From what little I've played with it...it is a winner in my book. Lemme say it again...I LOVE the single player sabering in multi-player!!!
Thanks Raven!

TDS
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Old 05-07-2002, 02:57 AM   #79
The Truthful Liar
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Sabering is great, don't listen to all the other tools. Medium has been slightly disgraced but you'll get used to it and master it like all the other people.

Hmm.. I noticed that Raven tweaked force grip to make you walk and move slowly, also you can't attack quick enough after a grip unfortunatly

Also Force push/pull I found that there's a "waiting period" before you can attack the person when he's down... shame that they added that, then again I might enjoy it a few times not getting chopped in half while laying on the ground.

Still, there's nothing we can do about the bad things since it's relitively impossible to create the "PERFECT" game/patch.

So I shall end saying...

I LOVE RAVEN!!










"Whatever action is performed by a great man, common men follow in his footsteps. And whatever standards he sets by exemplary acts, all the world pursues."
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Old 05-07-2002, 03:03 AM   #80
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Quote:
Originally posted by CooLJoE
Thats retarded. If they are across the room and I want to pull them or drain them or use lightning on them, I'll waste all my Force because I can't see that they have Absorb.
That's the whole point of absorb. It's the conterpart to drain.


Quote:
All I can say is, good work Raven. Your first patch has hurt the MP gameplay IMO.
See, these people are PROFFESIONAL GAME DESIGNERS whereas you're a whining brat.
Why don't you just play the damn game and stop trying to predict what you think it might be like. Raven probably has more experience then you do in that department.

If you still think it sucks in a week come back then and complain. When you actualy KNOW something.


-King Andy

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