lfnetwork.com mark read register faq members calendar

Thread: Post patch: Yes, I feel cheap...
Thread Tools Display Modes
Post a new thread. Add a reply to this thread. Indicate all threads in this forum as read. Subscribe to this forum. RSS feed: this forum RSS feed: all forums
Old 05-10-2002, 04:39 PM   #41
Nill the Mean
 
Nill the Mean's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Dimension Stress
Posts: 308
Smile Good ideas here...

I agree with Spider Al that players now seem to bundle into a ball on one part of the map. I have seen it happen too often for it not to be true.

Two people fight.
A third arrives, starts fighting.
Fourth person arrives, thinks: "Lots of people here!" and starts fighting.
Since no-one is dying as quiclky anymore, player five, six, seven, etc... turn up and pile up with the rest. Since everyone is in one spot, why bother going somewhere else? This game is about combat, not avoiding it.

Then some "backslash whore" turns up and kills of the people who weren't paying enough attention.

I like Aiee's idea to reduce the chance of blocking the further away the attack is from the front of the player. Sounds good. It would put more point in trying to outmaneuvre your opponent again. Footwork is just as important in a fight as blocking afterall.
Stuff directly in front would have a 100% chance of getting blocked, stuff further away than 90 degrees from your front should NEVER be blocked (I'll get back to this).

I think that on top of that, they need to remove a lot of the saber clashing at the beginning/end of the attack animations but leave it the same in the middle of the swing. This would make counterattacking more important and would reward timing. The blocking system that we are thinking about would prevent "jousting matches". blocking then counterattacking would be really worth it.

I also say that the damage should be upped for all styles. I think having to hit him 3-6 times should be enough. I don't know exactly what the deal is with medium now... I can't seem to get anything right with it. If I swich to light I get a lot more hits that seem to do more damage than medium would. This is undoubtedly not the case, but that is what it feels like sometimes.

Finally, I don't agree that they should up the damage you get from being hit in the back. Imagine how crappy this would be in FFA if someone shoots you in the back with a rocket/repeater/flechette... SPLAT!
To counter the backstab they should just make it obviously less effective than attacking in front of you. I also have noticed that some of my attacks that I make at someones back now also get blocked. I'm not blind, I know what I saw... I attacked him in the back and my saber bounced back and I didn't hear a pain noise from either of us. Happened to me at least 15 times already. This should NEVER happen.

I would also like a better solution for people who push, knock you over, then push again to send you over an edge. You can stand up slowly and this prevents you from being pushed again, but sometimes you just flip up again without touching anything. I suggest they let you get up faster the more you click the jump button. If you would press it A LOT you could avoid being hacked whilst lying down more easily. Also, sometimes when I still have force to counter and am standing still, I still get pushed, why? Stick in the cool counter animation from SP.

On the topic of alternative animations, they stuck in the SP animation for the person being gripped. Looks very cool. Now I think they should put in the normal walking animation for the gripper, not the slow run you have now. I think you should be able to do more damage faster, move slightly faster, but be not be able to do it for as long as you can now.

Remove the pain sound for anything below 10hp damage. This way you would know if you just glanced him or actually hit him.

Add the fists you can get by playing about in the console in SP.

If the changes we are dicussing now were implemented into 1.04, we would get a nice balance between what made both 1.02 and 1.03 so great without losing out on too much of either.
I think...
Nill the Mean is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 05-10-2002, 04:46 PM   #42
Aiee
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 205
Quote:
Finally, I don't agree that they should up the damage you get from being hit in the back. Imagine how crappy this would be in FFA if someone shoots you in the back with a rocket/repeater/flechette... SPLAT!
To clarify my remark, I only meant for the added damage to the back to occur if you hit someone with a lightsaber. It was, again, to discourage overuse of backstab and place empahsis on getting behind your opponent and placing your saber smack in the middle of his spine. I guess I could've worded that a little better.
Aiee is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 05-10-2002, 06:17 PM   #43
Spider AL
A well-spoken villain...
 
Spider AL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Help, help, I'm stapled to my workstation.
Posts: 2,162
Quote:
If you have any suggestions that will restore the pace to FFA and CTF, while still allowing me to have a good, long duel with an opponent where I use timing, blocks and deflections to trick my opponent into leaving himself open so I can move in for a finishing kill, I would love to hear them.
I'm glad you asked. I'd like at least toggleable SP/1.03 style combat for server administrators in the next patch. This would mean that FFA and CTF server admins could lower ammo cost for CTF, and up the speed of FFA, at will. Duel admins could choose whether to make their servers SP style or not.

I'll be lobbying for just that.


[FW] Spider AL
--
Hewwo, meesa Jar-Jar Binks. Yeah. Excusing me, but me needs to go bust meesa head in with dissa claw-hammer, because yousa have stripped away meesa will to living.
Spider AL is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 05-10-2002, 06:22 PM   #44
Orangina_Rouge
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 120
LOL ...if even u The infamous cheap bastard feel lame .....there is no hope for this game
Orangina_Rouge is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 05-10-2002, 06:24 PM   #45
LooNBB
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 108
WOW! A "I don't like the Patch" thread with maturity and real discussion...

While I do like the patch quite a bit (being a NF dueler) I can agree with most of the points here, and completely understand Spider's original intent. I also tend to abuse things that i know will get me the kill.

It really does amaze me that somehow the absolute best tactical position in a saber fight (being directly behind an opponent) has been made into an absolute No No due to the backstab moves.

It would make sense to me if the move was reversed... 1 hit kill if the attacker is behind the attackee... but the other way around?

While I am chop-chop-choping at some guy he magically does a super spin and I am out for the count? It doesn't fly for me.

Why wouldn't you spam it? If it works use it! The developers in their quest to make a great game should look to make a balanced game that is fun and exciting and doesn't involve some inane exploits.

Great posts


__________________

LooN-JedI
__________________
LooNBB is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 05-10-2002, 06:28 PM   #46
Aiee
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 205
I, for one, could live with that. One thing I would stress, however, is that a clearly visible icon should be added that shows wether a server is using 1.02 or 1.03 style in the server browser. Currently, the community seems to be divided into two camps, and I suspect a player would be annoyed if he enteret a server, only to find that blocking ws the opposite of what he expected.

However, I would advise caution in implementing a feature such as this. It is important to remember that we are, indeed a community, and having two vastly different approaches to saber fighting could possibly divide the community in two, with name-calling, flaming aplenty of people who use another style than yourself and further difficulties in patching and fixing two different game experiences to follow.

On the topic of backstabs, I beleive the original reason they were made unblockable instant-kills were because they were intended as a surprise maneuvre. I mean, if an opponent was not prepared at all, a stab in the stomach would be sure to kill. Unfortunately, they didn't anticipate that players would run around backwards, as if trying to fart the dodging players to death and totally removing the surprise on the backstab.

Today, however, I did a move and experienced another that really did add surprise to the backstab move and justified the instant kills (because the element of surprise were there, and the saber did in fact go withy through the other guy, without the stabber turning to aim (Further clarification: I mean that the instant kills were justified in these two specific cases, not in general)).

The one I pulled off hapened while I was running at my opponent in the light stance and he was running at me. When we were getting close to each other, he hit roll and rolled past me. I hit backstab, and he got the saber placed right into his spine, because he got up right behind me.

The one that happened to me saw my opponent jumping over my head in a sommersault. As soon as he landed, he pulled the backstab maneuvre, and hit me in the stomach as I turned to face him. Again, this capitalized on the backwards stab as a surprise maneuvre, and his win of the duel was well-deserved in my eyes.

Another possible fix to the backwards-stab would be to keep the unblockable aspect of it (like in DFA) but tone the damage down slightly (again like in DFA) and remove the ability to turn during the move (amazingly again like DFA). Finally, changing the animation so all styles would use the light stance backstab. This would still make it a deadly move if you spin around and perform it at the right time, but it also leaves your front and sides wide open to a counterattack, and requires you to aim properly when using it.


By caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. By the beans of Java do thoughts acquire speed, hands acquire shaking, the shaking becomes a warning; By caffeine alone do I set my mind in motion

Last edited by Aiee; 05-10-2002 at 07:07 PM.
Aiee is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 05-10-2002, 07:36 PM   #47
Nill the Mean
 
Nill the Mean's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Dimension Stress
Posts: 308
Getting rid of the ability to turn whilst doing a backstab would be good. It would require more "skill" to pull it off like that. way. I don't think they should tone the damage down that much though. You don't want it to be nerfed so it is totally usesless. With the other things I sugegsted it would be much more rewarding to attack things in front of you thus making it less tempting to backslash every five seconds. Afterall, why backstab when you are getting more kills fighting "normally"?
I find it strange that no-one responded to my ideas of toning down saber clashing at the beginning and end of attack animations. I thought this was a good idea myself.
And we should all ask for the hit sounds to be changed the way I said earlier, I bet this would be a great way of telling if you hit him or not.
In respect to having serverside options for 1.02 or 1.03 for certain game types...
I think that would be cool, however I would rather that Raven concentrate their efforts on 1.04 to make it better than 1.02 & 1.03 instead of them bringing back the old things.
Sounds rationable, no?
Nill the Mean is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 05-10-2002, 07:41 PM   #48
LooNBB
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 108
Nill... we didn't respond because we were dumfounded by the brilliance you displayed


__________________

LooN-JedI
__________________
LooNBB is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 05-10-2002, 07:51 PM   #49
Nill the Mean
 
Nill the Mean's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Dimension Stress
Posts: 308
Quote:
Originally posted by LooNBB
Nill... we didn't respond because we were dumfounded by the brilliance you displayed
Hahahaha... why thank you.

Nill the Mean is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 05-10-2002, 08:28 PM   #50
Spider AL
A well-spoken villain...
 
Spider AL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Help, help, I'm stapled to my workstation.
Posts: 2,162
Quote:
I also tend to abuse things that i know will get me the kill.
The temptation is horrible, and I'd rather it wasn't available to me at all. I played a game tonight, fully intending to analyse my kills-per-minute when I wasn't using the backstab at all... But I folded when someone called "Maybe2stoned" did it to me. I went on a rampage. Waahhhh.

Quote:
Getting rid of the ability to turn whilst doing a backstab would be good.
Hmm, yes, but turning doesn't make much difference to the all-round effect of the Strong style backswing. It's hellish. I can't really see any way of making it less of a one-hit-kill unless it's either slower, (much slower, which would defeat the point of it) or toned down in damage.

Quote:
In respect to having serverside options for 1.02 or 1.03 for certain game types... I think that would be cool, however I would rather that Raven concentrate their efforts on 1.04 to make it better than 1.02 & 1.03 instead of them bringing back the old things. Sounds rationable, no?
Well, let me put it this way... as a veteran FFA player (as veteran as one can be in a game that was released little more than a month ago) I'd say there was only one thing that needed to be changed in FFA: The DFA. My ideal patch for FFA would be 1.02 with only the DFA nerf added. For CTF, the same. This patch is wonderful for duelling, so for v.1.04 I'd like to see these different needs reflected for the different styles of play. However, this may be a tall order for Raven. Implementing different rules for Multiplayer and Single player is one thing... but different rulesets for six different modes of play? A lot of work. It may actually be easier for them to implement a 1.03/1.02 toggle... so that's what my requests are based on. I'd LOVE to see different rulesets for all the different modes in 1.04, but I think that may be like asking Santa for a small country. I could be wrong there though.

Quote:
With the other things I sugegsted it would be much more rewarding to attack things in front of you thus making it less tempting to backslash every five seconds. Afterall, why backstab when you are getting more kills fighting "normally"?
Precise and to the point Nill. This is the crux of the matter... in 1.02 you didn't see backstabbing because ALL blows cut through blocks. People backstab now, because it's simply the most effective blow. In 1.02 I got plenty of kills with normal forward strong strikes. So I didn't need to backstab.

Quote:
I find it strange that no-one responded to my ideas of toning down saber clashing at the beginning and end of attack animations. I thought this was a good idea myself.
It is a good idea, and would undoubtedly make the sabre combat feel more fluent... but I for one would like a vastly lower blocking radius in FFA. Vastly.

Quote:
And we should all ask for the hit sounds to be changed the way I said earlier, I bet this would be a great way of telling if you hit him or not.
True, that should definitely go on the list.

Quote:
I, for one, could live with that. One thing I would stress, however, is that a clearly visible icon should be added that shows wether a server is using 1.02 or 1.03 style in the server browser.
Oh definitely. It wouldn't be much use to anyone if you couldn't tell what version of server you were joining on the ingame browser. All seeing eye does have such an icon I believe, though I have never had occasion to use it.

Quote:
Another possible fix to the backwards-stab would be to keep the unblockable aspect of it (like in DFA) but tone the damage down slightly (again like in DFA) and remove the ability to turn during the move (amazingly again like DFA). Finally, changing the animation so all styles would use the light stance backstab. This would still make it a deadly move if you spin around and perform it at the right time, but it also leaves your front and sides wide open to a counterattack, and requires you to aim properly when using it.
I agree with this completely. I hadn't thought of making all styles use the light stance backstab, but now that you mention it it would be excellent. I much prefer the look if the thing, personally, and it would mean that the backstab could only be used on one... POSSIBLY two people at any one time, making it a non-mop-maneuver.


[FW] Spider AL
--
Hewwo, meesa Jar-Jar Binks. Yeah. Excusing me, but me needs to go bust meesa head in with dissa claw-hammer, because yousa have stripped away meesa will to living.
Spider AL is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 05-10-2002, 08:53 PM   #51
Spider AL
A well-spoken villain...
 
Spider AL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Help, help, I'm stapled to my workstation.
Posts: 2,162
For the fiftieth post in this thread, I would like to request to the moderators that this thread, and all other threads discussing the patch in a constructive manner, be moved to the game feedback forum where we can all work out exactly what we want from 1.04. Would that I could do it myself.


[FW] Spider AL
--
Hewwo, meesa Jar-Jar Binks. Yeah. Excusing me, but me needs to go bust meesa head in with dissa claw-hammer, because yousa have stripped away meesa will to living.
Spider AL is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 05-10-2002, 09:03 PM   #52
Nill the Mean
 
Nill the Mean's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Dimension Stress
Posts: 308
Wow, I'm amazed at how good this thread is. No whining/complaining. Just good debate. Seriously, I think we can all pat ourselves on the back. We are all starting to agree on what should be done, an obvious sign that we are getting somewhere.
Quote:
It is a good idea, and would undoubtedly make the sabre combat feel more fluent... but I for one would like a vastly lower blocking radius in FFA. Vastly.
How vast exactly? I don't think they should tone it down as far as 1.02. The blocking now has many more features which could be fine-tuned and it would be a shame not to implement them. I'm thinking 1.03 style blocking with the fluent combat of 1.02.
In order to make gunning more appealing, I think you should be able to do the acrobatic moves (kick/flip/wallwalk/roll) whilst holding a gun. Maybe not roll because you already have the advantage of ranged attack with a gun. The amount of ammo required should go down a bit again.
And for nostalgia, I must once again cry out for the fists.

I thought of something especially sweet just now... more of a mod thing because it would require quite some work probably... why not have those dodge animations for Seeing pop up when using Speed in a saber duel. Instead of a blocking animation you dodge Matrix style. Or have those animations sped up for dodging repeater/E-11 bolts, like the agent in the Matrix.
OK, maybe I'm dreaming now but it sounds cool...
Nill the Mean is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 05-10-2002, 09:20 PM   #53
TheDarkSide
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Fort Worth, TX
Posts: 268
This thread is a beautiful beautiful thing. These kind of threads are what Raven will respond to. I only wish all the patch feedback threads were like this *sigh*

I don't have much to add to the discussion as the points discussed here are pretty good and complete.

I have realized over the course of the past few days why I love this patch so....it's because it caters primarily to duelers, and that's what I primarily do. I play occasional games of FFA and play more CTF than TFFA, so I barely notice the slower pace that this patch gives to the game. I can definitely see now that the changes which are so great for dueling can be detrimental to FFA.

As to why I prefer dueling, I can't really say. I like FFA when it's a gang of guys I know (i'm talking like LAN FFA), but jumping on a random server and beating a bunch of people I know absolutely nothing about nor will likely ever see again after I log off....well, that holds absolutely zero interest to me. As a young'un I wrestled in junior high and high school, and played racquetball and tennis recreationally, and while I love playing basketball, one on one b-ball is my favorite. I like the 1 v1 environment in general, skill vs skill, no one to support you or do the dirty work for you to mop up on.

Ack, I've been rambling. Here's my small addition to the patch feedback, do whatever you'd need to do to FFA and CTF to get people happy with the game again, but leave the dueling exactly as it is. It is perfect. If that involves a different set of mechanics for one vs the other, I think I could live with that.

TDS

Last edited by TheDarkSide; 05-10-2002 at 10:48 PM.
TheDarkSide is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 05-10-2002, 10:20 PM   #54
IronJedi Kaga
 
IronJedi Kaga's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 69
Quote:
Originally posted by Spider AL
Zek, a fight against someone like me (at least in FF which I frequent) will ALWAYS be short. One hit kill. One hit, and you're dead. I don't want to play like that, I doubt anyone does... But it's the way things are. All the patch has done is decreased Darksiders' defences against my one-hit-kills, and made headless-chicken-style the order of the day.
The one thing that I feel people dont understand is by that there very nature ff games are never about sabers. In 1.02 it was about drain, and heal. Now ff sabers are about push/pull as a lead in to backstab. IMO the only way to get a good saber game is to go nf.

As for the opening post about ffa, er if I see someone backing up as you, I'd just shoot. Unless you mean a sabers only ffa which is another matter, but if there are guns invovled killing people who run around backwards is easy.
IronJedi Kaga is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 05-10-2002, 10:23 PM   #55
SpaceMonkey1315
 
SpaceMonkey1315's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: NJ
Posts: 139
Re: Post patch: Yes, I feel cheap...

Quote:
Originally posted by Spider AL
Those that know my name know that I am one of those evil fewls who gets his name at the top of the scoreboard as much as humanly possible. Yes, I DFA'ed. A lot. Yes, I pushed people over and shot them. Yes, I sniped, repeater-hogged, shot people fighting in groups...

But I did all these things with honour. I mean, I always gave my opponents a chance. I let them pull their sabre before knocking them off the cliffs... I let them pick up that rocket launcher before running for the compactor activation console and crushing them. I always fought sabre battles for a minute or two before finishing them off with a DFA.

With this new patch, I was hoping that I wouldn't have to DFA to win the match. I was hoping that I wouldn't have to slam absorb up constantly during duels to avoid drainers... In fact, I was hoping for balance.

But something strange has happened... Two days playing the patch, and I, even I suddenly feel cheap and nasty, and dishonourable. It's the backstabs you see. The backstabs can kill in one strike. They cut through blocks and shields like butter... And I can't stop using them. They work well. They do the job, and fast. But tonight, I was on a server and saw one man... who might as well have been me, for I have been doing the same thing... Strong style backstab. Over and over. He was walking around backwards... And I saw him work, and he racked up kills, because yes, he was skilled at using the backstabs... and I thought "how cheap." And then it hit me, that man... was me.

I've never felt cheap before. The same technique, over and over... That's what I have to use to win, because it's the fastest, most effective and most unblockable technique there is. If I were to sabre fight in other ways, I would be spending precious time on one person that I could be spending on grabbing ammo and blasting the rest of the people. And you'd better believe there's another guy on the server that will use that one technique over and over even if you're not willing to use it yourself. And he will win. On sabres only servers, what else can you do? And now on guns servers, with ammo depleted, what else can you use? I run out of ammo, I backstab. I've played for about ten hours since the patch was released, and it's gotten more and more repetitive and less and less interesting. I've suddenly realised that the one word someone used to describe the game post-patch, was absolutely apt. JO is now neutered.

I'm primarily a lightsider. When I realised how cheap the patch had made FFA winning, I played a match as a darksider to see what changes had affected them. I was astonished. Before the patch, a good darksider could challenge me. Now, what use is drain against lightsiders like me? No use at all. It takes a tiny amount of mana away even if I'm slow at activating absorb.

Before the patch, a fast gripper might have had a chance to grab me and throw me over the side of a cliff before I activated absorb. Now, no chance at all. Lightning? I've been killed by lightning a grand total of ten times since the game was released... Even if it were beefed up, what good does it do a darksider against a lightsider? Or against a darksider with a gun?

As for the light side, I don't waste my mana on heal now. It's no use in a duel match at all. It was never very useful in FFA.

And as for team games, at first I thought it might be a minor shift in power... But it seems I was wrong, having played some more matches tonight. CTF for example... Absorb has neutered defenders. An experienced attacker runs in with speed and absorb... he's quite likely to dodge all gunshots, and if he grabs the flag and legs it, who's going to stop him? push won't affect him, it'll merely feed him. Any sabre attacks on the way in or out will be blocked... It's a nightmare.

So let's recap: The patch has reduced me, an experienced duellist and FFAer to using a single, boring technique, over and over again so often, that it EVEN BORES ME.

It's annoyed experienced CTFers because of the neutering of gun-use.

It's made the Dark Side a pale shadow when compared to the sun-like glory of the light side, and I AM a lightsider, so it's hard for me to admit that.

People have always accused me of using the same technique a lot, because I've always done what works, what's necessary to win. But now, I'm starting to agree with them, which is terrifying.

The patch has made winning boring, in my opinion. I didn't think it was possible, but tonight, I'm bored of winning FF FFAs. I'm bored of defeating foes in CTF. I'm bored of duels which end when someone's backstab finally connects.

And I'm tired of running backwards. Maybe I should paint eyes onto Kyle's backside.

What I think should be changed:

The DFA's problem wasn't its power, it was the ability to turn, and the ludicrously long sideways and forward range of the attack. All that needed to be changed was the turning, and the attack range.

Too much blocking means slow sabre fights, so slow that I just give up and shoot the person or shove them over the edge, rather than fighting them. That's not the way things should be, surely? IMO the blocking percentages are way off base. In 1 on 1 duels sure, block all you want, because there's nothing else to do but sabre fight... but in FFA or team games, who wants to stand around slowly nicking away at one person's health?

The backstabs are ludicrously powerful. Another one-hit-kill has replaced the DFA, and one wonders... what was the point?

Drain has been stripped of any power at all. Too far in the right direction, methinks. It's just not a danger to anyone anymore.

Heal... what exactly is the point of this? Three points sunk into one power and what do you get? A single health pack's worth for half your stock of mana. Surely ALL the powers should be desirable and useful, or why have them at all?

Spider's verdict:

1.03 favours Lightsiders like me, disadvantages Darksiders, removes any need to duel with the sabre, (backstab instead) and (So WD_Rage and others say,) makes a mockery of CTF.

It also introduces two fun-filled concepts:

Running backwards while bent forwards so that you can see who's behind you, so that you look utterly and completely ludicrous, and miss all the scenery except the floor textures. Let the buttocks show ye the way forward, young Padawan.

And the second, the concept of utterly useless Force Powers. Heal and Drain now sit in a world of their own as the most completely feeble "powers" ever to possess the name. I hereby dub Heal and Drain "Force Weaknesses" rather than "Force Powers."

Let me finally make clear, I haven't lost a FF FFA, or a FF duel, since I downloaded the patch. This is not a rant born from the frustration of a loser, but instead the frustration of a winner.

I'm off to play 1.02. Yes, I'll have to put up with DFAers and drain-happy madmen, but in my considered opinion, it's preferable.
well, it looks like someone is kinda honerable


Space Monkey
SpaceMonkey1315 is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 05-10-2002, 10:34 PM   #56
IronJedi Kaga
 
IronJedi Kaga's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 69
Also on a side note, please stop blaming the game for deaths caused by being unaware. If you are invovled in a duel and dont notice someone spamming an overpowered move and get mowed down, you only have yourself to blame. Stay aware of your surroudings and surprises like that shouldn't happen. Its probably the nubmer 1 reason why someone using a saber gets killed on a dm server.
IronJedi Kaga is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 05-11-2002, 12:34 AM   #57
Spider AL
A well-spoken villain...
 
Spider AL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Help, help, I'm stapled to my workstation.
Posts: 2,162
Quote:
How vast exactly?
This is a good question Nill, and it's a difficult one to answer. Hmm, in FFA and CTF, (only in my opinion) blocking should occur in at most, in 90 degrees directly in front of the player. Having the full 180 degrees covered is too much for a fast-paced FFA in my view.

Quote:
We are all starting to agree on what should be done, an obvious sign that we are getting somewhere.
Indeed! In fact, I'll clarify my views definitively here for ease of reading, using a list thingy:
[list=1][*]In the next patch, I believe that FFAs should be tweaked to be faster, by cutting blocking down to a smaller radius in front of the player.[*]In the next patch, I think in CTF either ammo supplies should be increased, or ammo consumption should be lowered once more.[*]In Force-enabled games, I think that Heal should be tweaked to yield more health at higher levels, but be more risky to use, perhaps by forcing the player into a meditative stance as in Single Player Level 1 Heal.[*]And IMO Drain should be increased in potency very slightly, because it's just not dangerous enough anymore. It should really be a rival to my Absorb, no?[*]Grip... well, I think grip should be un-nerfed, and I don't understand in the slightest what reason compelled them to fiddle with it at all.[*]Other people's good ideas: Aiee's Light stance backstab anim used for all stances, thus safely nerfing Backswing without removing its tactical advantage... Nill's hit sounds only activating if over 10 hit points have been taken, slightly increased sabre damage etc.[/list=1]

Well there we have it. No doubt I'll come up with more hare-brained ideas I'd like to see the next patch, but I think I'll stick with these and only these for the time being. Best to keep the goal in sight.

Quote:
please stop blaming the game for deaths caused by being unaware. If you are invovled in a duel and dont notice someone spamming an overpowered move and get mowed down, you only have yourself to blame.
Kaga, this is true. It doesn't make the incessant blocking less annoying in FFA, nor does it make the one backswing maneuver less boring for me to do, or less boring for those I kill. JO shouldn't be boring, ever. Waaah

TDS, absolutely the duelling is more fun, though in FF duels I feel the backswing should be nerfed in the way Aiee suggested, by making it use the Light backstab anim, but slower and harder. Otherwise it's simply a "who can pull the other person first" competition, without chance of recovery should you be pulled. I like FF duels... mmmm...


[FW] Spider AL
--
Hewwo, meesa Jar-Jar Binks. Yeah. Excusing me, but me needs to go bust meesa head in with dissa claw-hammer, because yousa have stripped away meesa will to living.
Spider AL is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 05-11-2002, 01:35 AM   #58
TheDarkSide
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Fort Worth, TX
Posts: 268
Spider-
I think that's a pretty good solution for the backswing spamming. I'm not quite sure why Raven didn't just do that to begin with....

I'd say I agree with most of your list of proposed adjustments, although point 2, I think will end up being moot. Since there seems to be a sizable chunk of people who are very upset with the increased ammo consumption, I think it needs to be stated that the solution for ammo nerfing is already within our grasp with the JO editor. Quite simply, new CTF maps can be made to include either more ammo, or have ammo regenerate quicker.

I think a big part of that particular problem is due to the short supply of CTF maps we currently have at our disposal. Once the editing community gets rolling, I am confident (even if there is never another patch) that this problem will go away.

Otherwise, I pretty much agree.

TDS

PS Spider, I *love* that avatar. That glare is priceless.
TheDarkSide is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 05-11-2002, 01:51 AM   #59
Spider AL
A well-spoken villain...
 
Spider AL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Help, help, I'm stapled to my workstation.
Posts: 2,162
Quote:
Quite simply, new CTF maps can be made to include either more ammo, or have ammo regenerate quicker.
Everything you say here is perfectly valid, and as with other popular games, I have no doubt that eventually certain user-made CTF maps will be preferred not only by competitive leagues etc. but also preferred by the average CTF player. However, the second point on my list is perhaps the easiest possible for Raven to implement. It'd be the work of a few moments to add a little more ammo on Bespin CTF et al., much faster than tweaking the blocking/knockaways or nerfing the backswing. In fact, I feel that Raven are more likely to address the CTF question than any other question people have posed throughout the post-patch debate... simply because it is purdy easy.

Quote:
I *love* that avatar. That glare is priceless.
Pete Cushing's the daddy. There's no getting around it.


[FW] Spider AL
--
Hewwo, meesa Jar-Jar Binks. Yeah. Excusing me, but me needs to go bust meesa head in with dissa claw-hammer, because yousa have stripped away meesa will to living.
Spider AL is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 05-11-2002, 03:01 AM   #60
Pedantic
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Nowhere important
Posts: 1,878
Wow, what a change! This thread is great!

I think that medium spins should be sped up somewhat; patched, it looks like strong move, rather than a medium, IMO. Backstabs should be toned down damage-wise and maybe made to have a slight chance of blocking. The frequency of blocking and the arc should be decreased slightly. Also, I miss my single-tap flipkicks. Now, they are most cumbersome to perform. I would rather accidentally flip because of a small ledge than not be able to do single-tap flipkicks, IMO. These are just a few of my ideas, most of which concur with most peoples' ideas in this thread.

P.S. If anyone is thinking of organizing some sort of abstract for changes in the next patch, I would like to be a part of this.
Pedantic is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 05-11-2002, 03:04 AM   #61
zufuss
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 84
im pretty sure the main problem with backstab is not the damage but the fact that if you swing around with your mouse, you get not 1 but 2 and if you do it right 3 backstab attacks with 1 hit.

This is why you get 1 hit kill backstabs...EVEN with light stance. Because the backstab is messed up. if you move around it keeps on hitting anyone and everyone it touches for the same amount of FULL damage each time.
zufuss is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 05-11-2002, 03:26 AM   #62
Etz
 
Etz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Finland
Posts: 101
There are quite a few things I'd like to see changed. For one, the lightsaber idle damage could as well be the original 5, lightsabers are dangerous after all. I'd also like to see some real difference in stances, fighting style wise, but I doubt that will ever happen because it would take lots of time and work to make different moves for the models, not to talk about the chaos it would throw game balance into. A mod would probably be the only way to add that.

Talking about idle damage, I'm not sure how it works now. But walking into somebody with out attacking shouldn't tricker a block. This way you could force someone to back off or trigger an attack to create an opening.

I still remember what the fights were like in 1.02. People run around like in a jousting match, hitting as they passed. It might have been more exiting than the current form but it didn't look good, that's for sure. That's the reason I'd actually like to see some walking in lightsaber duels. For one thing it would make combos a lot more interesting. You could pull all those spinning moves and what not on your opponents face with out actually runnign past him or backing away. Perhaps walking speed could be little bit higher to make this feasible, what do you think? I'd say it's reasonable to assume that while walking or standing still your ability to block should be considerably higher than when you're running and out of balance (in terms of what it's like in real life).

I'm feeling bit wary of really saying my opinions about lightsaber combat because I don't consider myself a top player. I played QuakeWorld for a long time and that made me good in general terms, I know how to trick my opponents and I pick up most things really fast. But I don't have that much time to play, so I'm by no means a great player, yet.
Etz is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 05-11-2002, 03:29 AM   #63
Etz
 
Etz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Finland
Posts: 101
Forgot to add, I've seen this new trend (maybe not new, but this is first time I've seen it) raising its ugly head. People use normal attacks, and during the attack they rapidly move their mouse making the character twirl. This means that if you're in middle of your attack he will hit you multiple times, killing you instantly no matter how much health and shields you have will save you unless you're quick enough to move out of the way. This is difficult especially in FFA games.
Etz is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 05-11-2002, 04:50 AM   #64
Etz
 
Etz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Finland
Posts: 101
Splendid... a new cheat model, probably just like the hands only model used but this time it's just lightsaber so it's almost invisible. Picked this up from another thread, not sure if it's true but it wouldn't amaze me if it was.

I just wanted to add that I think moving backwards while running should be slower, the problem is that this would have huge impact on gameplay. How ever I think it would be a positive one. If I could program I'd change all this stuff and test things but as it is now that's kinda difficult, anyone up to try all this stuff?

btw, does anyone else find saber throwing annoying? I don't use it myself but to me it seems that it's impossible to launch attacks from heavy stance with out leaving yourself wide open for throw attack? This is just speculation because I rarely use heavy stance either .
Etz is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 05-11-2002, 05:51 AM   #65
w1ggl3s
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 65
Prepatch backstab is not as pwrfull because the players bounce off the saber hits.

The reason backstab is so good in 1.03 is cause they fixed the bouncing of bodies off sabers.
w1ggl3s is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 05-11-2002, 12:21 PM   #66
Aiee
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 205
Quote:
Originally posted by w1ggl3s
Prepatch backstab is not as pwrfull because the players bounce off the saber hits.

The reason backstab is so good in 1.03 is cause they fixed the bouncing of bodies off sabers.
Well, you gotta admit that someone being launched halfway over the map from a saber hit WAS a little silly


By caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. By the beans of Java do thoughts acquire speed, hands acquire shaking, the shaking becomes a warning; By caffeine alone do I set my mind in motion
Aiee is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 05-11-2002, 01:32 PM   #67
-=[M@ximus]=-
 
-=[M@ximus]=-'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Liverpool
Posts: 30
Wink we get some morons here dont we

I read all up to 3/4 till i saw Gooly the f()()l
i agree with Spider
as he knows and some of you here have seen/heard i am running WP servers and i have never ever seen so many backstabs!

Gooly if your not retarded then the whole point of the game is too win, if u see 3 peeps using lame moves that are winning, your telling me, your going to stand there and let them just win with it? dont be silly my little boy, for u will join and try and beat those peeps with there own moves, like Spider says, i have been on the WP FF sabers only server and i aint lost one yet, all i do is either absorb and push, cause dark just plain suxs now, least drain put a stop too things slightly!
but i have always been a lighty, never a darky like spider can use both, i dont belive in the dark

but for the things that got nerfed, i think over all the nerfed the lot, like if i was moaning cause i was lossing then it would be different, but the sad fact is, i dont loss, least not alot, my points anyways....
the main fact is, my Clan Own with 3 darkies and 1 light, light getting the higest rank kills there is, due too the little damage drain does now, those 3 drain, i push, no darky stands a chance against me in a FFA, not sure about Duel, but i am sure its the same....

i love the game, and will continue too play it and run servers, but the patch has compelety borked the game

IF WE WANTED Realistic moves down to the ground and all the never ending saber slow ass fighting, we would ask for a CS version mod too be made would we not? where sabers takes years too fight, and force powers a real too us

please

it is a game , and was supposed to be slighty exagerated so start putting things straight, one thing for sure, remove the Weapons nerf, there was no reason for it, and that shall make CTF fall, cause of what u did

i used repeater last night with full 300 ammo, it lasted seconds
LOL what could a defender or attacker do with that?
i know

/me throws gun at there head

there we go!

oh well, we can only hope
-=[M@ximus]=- is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 05-11-2002, 02:26 PM   #68
DeTRiTiC-iQ
 
DeTRiTiC-iQ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: England
Posts: 540
Since I know Spider_AL I know how hard it is to balance winning and playing fairly, and he does do it pretty well. Since i'm on 56k and usually have pings of 500+ I didn't really use sabers pre-patch. With the patch I thought I would give it ago, I'm finding I can kill players with considerably lower ping than me and considerably more skill than me just by using the backstab. So i'm currently trying to master all the moves so I don't have to rely on it.
DeTRiTiC-iQ is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 05-11-2002, 02:34 PM   #69
Spider AL
A well-spoken villain...
 
Spider AL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Help, help, I'm stapled to my workstation.
Posts: 2,162
Well I think this is wonderful. People from both the duelling and FFA/CTF camps are agreeing on what to change and what to leave in. As Nill said, we can all congratulate ourselves on managing to be mature games players. I don't think it can be denied by anyone anymore that duelling, FFA and CTF are each distinct styles of play, and require different things from the ruleset. Thus the new patch is excellent for duelling, but impacts FFA and CTF in a negative way, as underlined above. I think we must truly start lobbying for FFA and CTF problems to be removed and ironed out in the next patch, but we must also take great care to preserve the excellent duelling style of this patch.

I'm going to see what sort of lobbying techniques may be effective...


[FW] Spider AL
--
Hewwo, meesa Jar-Jar Binks. Yeah. Excusing me, but me needs to go bust meesa head in with dissa claw-hammer, because yousa have stripped away meesa will to living.
Spider AL is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 05-11-2002, 02:56 PM   #70
Etz
 
Etz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Finland
Posts: 101
Go for it Spider!

Etz is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 05-11-2002, 03:29 PM   #71
Perniciosus
 
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 58
I've posted my thoughts in many of the threads here and have tried to do so in an intelligent manner despite what the other posters had done in the various topics, so you'll have to pardon me if I don't write it all out again. I am glad, however, to see that a serious discussion topic has been going on without an influx of people coming in screaming about how they think the patch sucks. But I digress: I'm here now merely to respond to something written by someone else:

Quote:
Originally posted by TDS:
Here's my small addition to the patch feedback, do whatever you'd need to do to FFA and CTF to get people happy with the game again, but leave the dueling exactly as it is. It is perfect. If that involves a different set of mechanics for one vs the other, I think I could live with that.
I can see where you're coming from with this, and on some level I agree because I find 1.03 duels to be far superior to 1.02's duels, but wasn't a "different set of mechanics for one vs. the other" one of the reasons we're all here lending our constructive criticism?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't one of the most repeated complaints that multiplayer sabering wasn't like single player sabering? Each had their own mechanics and I never considered this to be a valid complaint because I liked having the difference between the two as it seemed to give gamers more to do and learn in the game. However, considering that was one of the complaints that brought us 1.03, I'm not entirely sure having separate mechanics for duels would be a good idea. Next thing we'd know, there'd be a lot of people complaining that they feel 'ripped off' in duel games because the sabering style isn't the same as it is for FFA games..

Just my thoughts.
Perniciosus is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 05-11-2002, 04:17 PM   #72
Spider AL
A well-spoken villain...
 
Spider AL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Help, help, I'm stapled to my workstation.
Posts: 2,162
Quote:
However, considering that was one of the complaints that brought us 1.03, I'm not entirely sure having separate mechanics for duels would be a good idea. Next thing we'd know, there'd be a lot of people complaining that they feel 'ripped off' in duel games because the sabering style isn't the same as it is for FFA games..
Good point, but I don't think it would be as much of an issue... it was primarily the sabreists who wanted SP style sabre combat, and since the most popular game mode among sabre enthusiasts is duel, I don't think they'd mind too much if we tweaked our CTF and FFA sabre combat a little eh? Certainly there will be some people who won't like it... but I have a feeling it'd be a seriously minor minority.


[FW] Spider AL
--
Hewwo, meesa Jar-Jar Binks. Yeah. Excusing me, but me needs to go bust meesa head in with dissa claw-hammer, because yousa have stripped away meesa will to living.
Spider AL is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 05-11-2002, 08:40 PM   #73
TheDarkSide
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Fort Worth, TX
Posts: 268
You're right that was a big suggestion,that of having MP saber more like SP saber, but that was from the "duelers" primarily.

In that statement, I was speaking for myself, since I obviously can't speak for all, but by different mechanics I should have been more clear. I'm not talking about a complete 1.02/1.03 split of saber play, but more along the lines of CTF and FFA having perhaps toned down blocking. Not reverting back to 1.02 though.



Quote:
Next thing we'd know, there'd be a lot of people complaining that they feel 'ripped off' in duel games because the sabering style isn't the same as it is for FFA games..
SpiderAl's response pretty much nailed it on the head. The duelers are the ones who would be 'ripped off', and they won't complain too loudly as long as the duels are still good. There may be a few who don't like it but by and large, most of them stick to solely dueling, or are like myself, do a lot of dueling, but still like to do some FFA or CTF and wouldn't mind those being faster paced.

I've played alot in the last two days, and I'm going to come out and say even in the dueling system, back stabs are just too powerful now. The light stance backstab used to do only 70 pts of damage. Not enough to take your opponent down right off the bat, but if you got a hit in, you'd be able to finish them off with it.
Well now, the backstab in light stance does at least 125 points of damage and although I've seen it blocked once or twice, the ability to spin with it, literally does make it a new DFA type move. I think it's kill radius is pretty big too, actually.....I was able to kill someone in FRONT of me with it. They started off behind me, enabling me to start the stab, they jumped over me, got in front and approached me, and ran into the hilt of my saber, killing them instantly (full health and shields).

Change the backswings to back stabs, take the damage down from 125 pts down to 70/100/125 depending on which stance you are in. Of course, make the yellow stab slower, and red slowest to balance the added damage done. What do you guys think?

TDS
TheDarkSide is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 05-11-2002, 10:08 PM   #74
Lucky
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: alaska
Posts: 211
Tweaking the damage and decreasing the blocking radius will definitely speed up duels. If thats what you guys want, its what you want. I don't play duels, so i can't really offer an opinion.

As for the CTF side of the issue, I've got a few ideas that might be a lil too radical, however I'm pretty sure they'd clear up some balance issues.

first off, the balance of sabers vrs guns is somthing people have taken issue with a # of times on these forums. I think a decent compromise would be to un nerf the guns, mebe even make them a lil more useful, and make saber hits a 1 hit kill against gunners.

As it is now, you have to hit a gunner repeatedly to kill him with a saber, and thats really not feasible when yer getting shot at. In the old version, 2 hits with heavy stance tended to kill most folks, and that made the saber useful in a pinch. Usually you'd land one shot, and then get blasted into oblivion. However, at least you could take half their life with you if you were sneaky.

The gun nerfs we can all agree were in response to the saber tweaking? Other people have argued this point with me, but that discussion almost brings about an entirely seperate debate, so i don't want to get into it.

A 1 hit kill with heavy stance, 2 with medium and 3 with light. + a 2 hit kill with saber thro would definitely make the saber useful. Obviously, this system wouldn't work for dueling, so making it exclusive for a saberist vrs a gunner would seperate it from that playstyle nicely. Otherwise you could leave whatever evolved form of the dueling combat in place for Saberist vrs saberist.

In a CTF match, this would draw people into saber battles very quickly as soon as you got close enough to tap someone with a saber. If there was a chance of dying in one hit once you let someone within saber range, you'd switch just to saber just to keep from getting killed easily.

This obviously wouldn't negate the advantage of using a gun, however it would make the sabers much more lethal in any sort of circumstance where guns would be involved. If you coupled that with making the guns more useful (somthing a lot of ctf'rs have complained about in private since the release) in general, you'd have a very fast paced CTF and TDM game, with it being a suberset of the dueling style.

Second, I propose making duels in CTF and TDM worth points. Actual points, mebe a flag cap in CTF and some server set amount in TDM. That would make the whole dueling function useful in competition.

And 3rd, somthing needs to be done about the way push/pull works. I like the power it gives, but there's no real way to stay on your feet consistently unless youre actively trying to knock someone over. People have been complaining about getting dropped off of ledges quite a bit, and while I enjoy that aspect of the game, I feel like there should be *somthing* I can do to get out of being knocked over other than absorb.

So I propose a grapple hook. That would give folks an option after being flung over a ledge, and require people who threw someone off to follow up and kill them. Also, in adding somthing like that, it doesn't affect the balance that pushpull have now. Screwing with that would definitely mess up the game balance quite a bit.


Please lemme know what you think.


Lucky


Crackas, always wastin my flava
Lucky is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 05-11-2002, 11:39 PM   #75
Nill the Mean
 
Nill the Mean's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Dimension Stress
Posts: 308
I think a much better option to solve the "push whores" would be to allow you to get up slowly by not pressing any buttons. By doing this, you wouldn't be able to get pushed again. You should still be able to move the mouse once you start getting up.
On a whole, I think the entire getting up thing should be more contollable.
Nill the Mean is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 05-12-2002, 01:14 AM   #76
-=[M@ximus]=-
 
-=[M@ximus]=-'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Liverpool
Posts: 30
oh jooly fun *sarcasim*
just joined a Jolt server, for the pure hell of it!
11 players, all doing backstab move, i had never tried this
but i thought, ballz too it, everyone is doing it, so i tryed it

Frag Limit Reached

[HoT]M@ximusCL 40 time in 6 mins
next higest was
Padawan (cant remember name too fast) 10


thats how lame back stab is, the blue move u can do it at super fast speeds and i was killing like 4 peeps each time cause they where grouped

tis poop i tell u

and as for the where pushing me, i think not, absorb non stop, cause i was gettin pushed non stop, each time, filled my bar, i forced pushed them off ledge or too ground, then i skillfully backstabed em again*not...Sarcasim again*

only to find i won the round again

what a load of boring old cobblers

when too CTF, and OMG, my fav style, and i force absorbed about 12 times, and got the flag 8 time, the other times, where someone pulled/pushed, and i just stopped dead where i was
apart from that, defenders and attacks where confused seeing this, absorbing, speeding *non-drug way :P* attack fly in, and fly out, aslo run out of ammo and resort too sabering to death Mad man, only too loss somin like 10-3 (i note i joined as they where 3-0 ahead)

poo poo, and here is some more poo just for that
-=[M@ximus]=- is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 05-12-2002, 02:23 AM   #77
Lucky
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: alaska
Posts: 211
In response to the reply to my suggestion of a grapple:

I'm afraid changing the dynamic of the game in such a way will unravel the whole ball of string.

It's very fragile, i had no idea that CTF could be so crippled with such a seemingly minor ammo tweak.

In the future, I'd much prefer to see things added and built into the game, instead of seeing things removed or altered heavily.


Lucky


Crackas, always wastin my flava
Lucky is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 05-12-2002, 03:38 PM   #78
Spider AL
A well-spoken villain...
 
Spider AL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Help, help, I'm stapled to my workstation.
Posts: 2,162
A grapple hook is really quite a powerful tool. If included, it would change the face of the game as we know it. People would use it to hang in wait for people above doorways... it would negate falling deaths... personally I think that there should be a dark side defence against pull and push, equal to absorb. Drain used to fulfil that function. Now it does not. Another point in favour of un-nerfing drain, to a certain extent at least. Lightsiders are now undefeatable by darksiders. This is no fun for lightsiders like me, who enjoy a challenge.


[FW] Spider AL
--
Hewwo, meesa Jar-Jar Binks. Yeah. Excusing me, but me needs to go bust meesa head in with dissa claw-hammer, because yousa have stripped away meesa will to living.
Spider AL is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 05-12-2002, 04:57 PM   #79
Aiee
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 205
Grappling hooks were a common mod for JK1, but they tended to make levels too easy, but saving people from all falling deaths, with nearly no exceptions. When I fell, I'd just aim at the nearest wall or ceiling and grapple. In a few, well-timed grapples, you could get out of any bad situation.


By caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. By the beans of Java do thoughts acquire speed, hands acquire shaking, the shaking becomes a warning; By caffeine alone do I set my mind in motion
Aiee is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 05-12-2002, 06:17 PM   #80
IronJedi Kaga
 
IronJedi Kaga's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 69
Lots of various ideas being discussed but most have been covered to some extent. However the one I disagree with is the idea of changing the gameplay for each mode of play. Sure this community is split to an extent, but changing the gameplay for every mode would most likely result in further splits in the community. Theres already splits between ctf players and duelers, with the suggested gameplay difference for everymode you'd now have ffa saberists vs duel saberists, ffa gunners vs ctf gunners and etc.

A second thing is it would discourage all around players. How many times would a player branch out into other areas of gameplay if they had to learn 4-5 different standards of gameplay?

Third it discourages game growth. It'd be annoying enough for the experienced player but imagine how long a new player would stick around if the gameplay seemingly changed every single time they changed to a server duel server from an ffa server or ctf server.

In conclusion IMO, it just makes more sense to have a standard set of gameplay rules for every server.
IronJedi Kaga is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Post a new thread. Add a reply to this thread. Indicate all threads in this forum as read. Subscribe to this forum. RSS feed: this forum RSS feed: all forums
Go Back   LucasForums > Network > JediKnight Series > Game Discussion > Jedi Outcast > Post patch: Yes, I feel cheap...

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:03 PM.

LFNetwork, LLC ©2002-2011 - All rights reserved.
Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.