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Old 05-16-2002, 08:18 PM   #1
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Question Master Cyphadeous?

I'm not sure about the spelling of Cyphadeous (sai-fa-dee-us?)

Who is this mysterious Jedi Master which supposedly made the original order of Jango Fett clones 10 years ago? I sorta got lost in the whole explanation, why was everyone so indifferent about why and who made this army in the first place?
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Old 05-16-2002, 08:28 PM   #2
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i believe they were referring to sidious, who is darth sidious, who is chancellor palpatine in episode II. they refer to him as dead, but i believe that the jedi council was just making that up to hide something darker.
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Old 05-16-2002, 08:29 PM   #3
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I don't think they were indifferent. It's just that they were busy conducting an investigation, and the fact that this jedi master supposedly ordered this clone army posthumously was another piece of the puzzle they were trying to solve.
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Old 05-16-2002, 08:38 PM   #4
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I wouldn't worry about it too much, even I kinda lost the plot with it in episode:1- although I always knew Sideous=Palpatine. It did get explained to me, but I forgot how it worked out. You can tell he ain't up to no good anyway Just look at the comment he makes to Ani about being the best Jedi he's ever seen


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Old 05-16-2002, 10:06 PM   #5
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I think sifadyas is a different person because the jedi would be able to realize palpatine and sifadyas were the same.
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Old 05-16-2002, 10:23 PM   #6
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Cyfadius is a different person. Simply used as a cover up name to create the clone army and then he was killed so they couldn't find much amiss.
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Old 05-16-2002, 10:28 PM   #7
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10 years ago was ep1. Palpatine/Sidious must have ordered the clones after the events of ep1.

Didn't Jango say he was working for Tyrannus?


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Old 05-16-2002, 11:10 PM   #8
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i was under the impression Syphadius was either another "made-up" name from palpatine, or that it was suppoused to be Sidious and the Caminos coupldnt pronounce it for ****.
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Old 05-16-2002, 11:45 PM   #9
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I figure heck, the plot really doesnt make sense, so why bother too much with the particulars. I felt the same way with Episode 1.


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Old 05-17-2002, 12:22 AM   #10
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If you remember obi wan said that syphadius was dead longer than 10 years ago


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Old 05-17-2002, 12:45 AM   #11
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Wasn't it mentioned that he was on the Jedi Council somewhere? So he couldn't very well be just some made up name then.

Maybe he was a Jedi Master that got seduced by the dark side and is now palpatine, but then the other council member would recognize him.

Another theory is that palpatine was using him, this mystery character, the same way he is using Dooku. Then palpatine simply gets rid of him once he's done, leaving no evidance to trace a link to himself and ruin his plans. What do you guys think?
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Old 05-17-2002, 12:45 AM   #12
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Obiwan actually gave two dates in the movie, one was over ten years, and the other was a bit less than ten (from memory).

Anyway here goes:

Palpatine = Darth Sideous, Sypherdeous
Count Dooku = Darth Tyrannus

The reason that the Jedi don't know that Palpatine is evil/whats going on, is that the dark side is clouding the jedi's vision. An entire scene is devoted to this, when they discuss whether they should tell the senate that the jedi aren't effective anymore. They choose not to because at the moment, it's only the sith lord that knows they are weak, and others may take advantage of it.

Quite a lot is explained throughout the movie, but you just have to listen for it.


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Old 05-17-2002, 02:13 AM   #13
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Yeah I noticed that scene and as far as why the council wouldn'T recognize a former member is maybe why they put emphasis on a character who was a changling. Now I'm really reaching here of course but thats the only thing i could think of as to why they wouldn't recognize him.
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Old 05-17-2002, 02:16 AM   #14
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His name is spelt Sifo Dias, I believe, I know it was two separate names. It DOES sound an awful lot like Sidious, which is quite likely.


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Old 05-17-2002, 07:23 AM   #15
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So basically the explanation is that Palpatine = Sidious = Sifa Dias = Jedi that was thought to be killed 10 years ago ?

This doesn't make sense!

My head hurts!

Where do they think Palpatine came from then - unless Sifa Dias and Palpatine were never in the same place at the same time?

This works once Sifa Dias is supposedly killed - but while he is meant to be alive - it doesn't quite work..

I'm happy with Palpatine = Sidious. But this whole Sifa Dias thing is driving me nuts.

This is all far too confusing.
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Old 05-17-2002, 08:16 AM   #16
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Palpatine=clone of Darth Sideoous. There. The End. My hear hurts. Stupid plot holes that don't make sense.

OK- seriously, if I remember correctly that someone said to me once when I didn't get the whole Palpatine/Sideous thing coz I was so losted over it, Palpatine is a smoke screen or some crap, he's not real, a haloucination (blah@my crappy spelling) or something or other. I don't know whether that's true or not, that's why I'm still confused. They're the same person but not

I give up- it makes a funky story. However, if Sifadous (the good jedi?) is Palpatine and Sifedous was thought to be killed 10years ago, wouldn't people have noticed when Palpatine rocks up a few years later and looks exactly the same as Sifadous? I mean I don't think they have plastic surgeons in the galaxy far, far away... do they????


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Old 05-17-2002, 08:40 AM   #17
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Ah yes, the SifoDyas Condundrum (wow, that almost sounds collegiate!)...

It is a tad bit confusing in both the book and the movie. The way I saw it, SifoDyas = Sidious = Palpatine, but as others had pointed out, this would make little sense given the fact that Palpatine works so closely with the Jedi Council. Surely one of them would have known that Palpatine was actually the supposedly dead Jedi.

I think a lot of this could have been avoided by having a bit of dialogue between Mace and Yoda or Mace, Yoda and Obi-Wan about SifoDyas being a fictious name. However, instead of doing that, they all admitted that SifoDyas was, in fact, a former Jedi, which makes the whole durn thing confuzzling.

IMO, if they had said that SifoDyas was someone who had never been a Jedi and was impersonating one to the Kaminans, it would have left the Sidious/Palpatine issue in tact and they would have still had an ironclad reason why Kamino had been removed from the archives because Dooku left the order around the same time as SifoDyas's 'death'.

The only OTHER possible explination is that Dooku went to Kamino on order from Sidious and presented himself as Master SifoDyas. That could possibly stay consistant with the time frame, but, again, gets lost because Obi-Wan, Mace and Yoda appear to confirm that SifoDyas was, in fact, a former Jedi...

Ack.. my head is spinning now.


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Old 05-17-2002, 08:44 AM   #18
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aieljafar is absolutely right, screw it
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Old 05-17-2002, 08:57 AM   #19
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pffffft

how obvious is it?

dooku killed sifo dias 10 years ago (which is when he left the jedi order) asone of his first missions for palpatine

he ripped off his jedi ID or whatever and then went to the kaminoans under the name of sifo dias (the guy he killed) and ordered the clone army as per palpatines instructions and paid for them using palpatines funds (which, being a dark lord of the sith and with his connections with the trade federation and stuff , would be considerable)

the kaminoans are so far away from the centralized republic that they might have heard of a jedi master called sifo dias but not of his (back then) recent death

the look mace and yoda give each other when they hear the name makes me think they knew about him getting killed under suspicious circumstances

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Old 05-17-2002, 09:08 AM   #20
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...and Dooku, before he left the Jedi, erased reference to Kamino from the Jedi Archives. The system vanishes from all records (apart from, no doubt, the Trade Federation) and for 10 years the Clone Army is built waiting for the day that Palpatine needs them...
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Old 05-17-2002, 09:14 AM   #21
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Guys...

What if Palpatine is not Darth Sidious...


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Old 05-17-2002, 09:19 AM   #22
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the clones were odered 10 years before ep2. and that momet palpatine became chancellor (sp?) he ordered the clones under the name of a dead jedi..... that is all... no more and no less.

something still puzzles me tho.... Jango was hired to stand for the clones 10 years before that...... he was hired by Darth tyranus.... a.k.a. count dooku..... BUT.... there can only be 2 sith at a time... darth sidious... has always been there,... but 10 years before that... Darth Maul was there too.... how can Jango be hired by Dooku then??? casue that would mean there were 2 sith.... what do you think..
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Old 05-17-2002, 09:24 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally posted by Topdan
Guys...

What if Palpatine is not Darth Sidious...
Then you want us to reject everything that was shown in Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi.

Emperor Palpatine was a Dark Lord of the Sith - the Sith Master, Vader as his successful apprentice. This is apparent by the relationship shown between the two - Vader calling the Emperor his 'Master', and the Emperor opening a can of whoop-ass on Luke.

Further, this is also asking to forget about Sidious in Episode 1, assuring that the Senate would do nothing about the issue on Naboo (who else could make this claim but someone preparing to be the head of the Senate?) and Dooku's limited lines in AotC where he states that the Senate is under the control of the Dark Lords of the Sith. Dooku goes so far as to talk about Darth Sidious being aligned with the Trade Federation's Viceroy during the happenings that made up TPM.

So, logic only concludes that Palpatine must be Sidious. Darth Maul was his apprentice; Dooku was his servant and Anakin becomes his most successful apprentice - and he is later referred to as Emperor Palpatine. I think that by now there should be no doubt, at all, that Palpatine=Sidious.


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Old 05-17-2002, 09:26 AM   #24
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Dooku obviously became Sidious' apprentice after the demise of Darth Maul, his first tasks being, I suspect :

1. to eliminate Sipha Dias
2. to enlist Jango Fett for the DNA supply
3. to order the Clone Army
4. to erase all record of Kamino in the archives
5. to leave the Jedi Order and commence moves towards separatism in disgruntled systems
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Old 05-17-2002, 09:27 AM   #25
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well prolly happened right after Ep I cus Dooku left the council right after Qui Gon died aka Maul dying too....

heh ur explanation is the best so far....but it doesn't seem nearly as clear in the movie...not intuitive at all....

the whole Jango/Dooku thing confuses me too...Jango Helps build the clone army...then leaves and helps build the droid army? but then the armies fight each other? why? Dooku is explaining to his allies about overthrowing the republic..but he help build the clone army to defend the republic? That whole duality thing is way hard to follow in the movie...another one of my gripes with it....
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Old 05-17-2002, 09:47 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally posted by Baal Fett
well prolly happened right after Ep I cus Dooku left the council right after Qui Gon died aka Maul dying too....

heh ur explanation is the best so far....but it doesn't seem nearly as clear in the movie...not intuitive at all....

the whole Jango/Dooku thing confuses me too...Jango Helps build the clone army...then leaves and helps build the droid army? but then the armies fight each other? why? Dooku is explaining to his allies about overthrowing the republic..but he help build the clone army to defend the republic? That whole duality thing is way hard to follow in the movie...another one of my gripes with it....
beacause that way.. palpatine gets in a legal way the fulkl power to do what he likes....in the senate and with the republic
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Old 05-17-2002, 09:47 AM   #27
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The whole point of building the droid army is to present a threat to the Republic, so as to allow Palpatine to be given emergency powers. He then utilises the Clone Army that has secretly been built to put down the insurgents, thereby eliminating those that have been bankrolling his plans. He will appear as the heroic Chancellor who saved the Republic when bureaucracy was killing it. It will seem only right that he is asked to maintain his powers for the good of the Republic, by which time it will be too late....
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Old 05-17-2002, 12:14 PM   #28
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it wasnt just jango playing both sides it was dooku. Jango was just following dooku around
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Old 05-17-2002, 12:30 PM   #29
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The Empire has always been compared with Nazi Germany in the 1930s and 40s. This movies brings the comparison between the two even closer - Hitler came to power by sending his Stormtroopers(!!!) to create chaos in Germany, convincing the parliament to give him Emergency Powers(!!!!!) that effectively made him a dictator.

It can be clearly seen that Sidious is one evil bloke with huge plans. He causes the separitists to create a droid army for use against the Republic, then uses that as a way to convince the senate to give him emergency powers. Then he uses the clone army that he ordered 10 years before under a false name, masquerading (or Dooku masquerading, it doesn't matter) as a dead Jedi. He obviously has huge plans for Episode 3


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Old 05-17-2002, 02:51 PM   #30
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His name is spelled Sifo-Dyas.

I am almost 100% sure that that is Palpatine.



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Old 05-17-2002, 02:58 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally posted by Perniciosus
Ah yes, the SifoDyas Condundrum (wow, that almost sounds collegiate!)...

It is a tad bit confusing in both the book and the movie. The way I saw it, SifoDyas = Sidious = Palpatine, but as others had pointed out, this would make little sense given the fact that Palpatine works so closely with the Jedi Council. Surely one of them would have known that Palpatine was actually the supposedly dead Jedi.

I think a lot of this could have been avoided by having a bit of dialogue between Mace and Yoda or Mace, Yoda and Obi-Wan about SifoDyas being a fictious name. However, instead of doing that, they all admitted that SifoDyas was, in fact, a former Jedi, which makes the whole durn thing confuzzling.

IMO, if they had said that SifoDyas was someone who had never been a Jedi and was impersonating one to the Kaminans, it would have left the Sidious/Palpatine issue in tact and they would have still had an ironclad reason why Kamino had been removed from the archives because Dooku left the order around the same time as SifoDyas's 'death'.

The only OTHER possible explination is that Dooku went to Kamino on order from Sidious and presented himself as Master SifoDyas. That could possibly stay consistant with the time frame, but, again, gets lost because Obi-Wan, Mace and Yoda appear to confirm that SifoDyas was, in fact, a former Jedi...

Ack.. my head is spinning now.
By the way, Sifo-Dyas was a Jedi Master, serving on the Jedi council, being a "leading member."

I agree with you that Sifo-Dyas is Palpatine and Sidious simply because that is the obvious explanation. The dialogue between Mace and Yoda basically gives slack to all kinds of explanations, because they cannot see anything happening with the Force. Also, the argument that the Council would have noticed that Palpatine had the Force shadow of Sifo-Dyas is flawed (as are similar theories paralleling that one). They obviously didn't see his rise to power as Emperor, and could not tell he had force power at ALL.

*I have to switch computers I will finish this post in a few minutes.*



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Old 05-17-2002, 04:08 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally posted by thrEEpaGe
His name is spelled Sifo-Dyas.

I am almost 100% sure that that is Palpatine.
How does that work... The console thinks he's dead, but they work closely with Palpatine. There's a rather large whole in the logic that states palp=Sifo-Dyas.

I mean, if Sifo-Dyas was a full fledged Jedi, then why don't any of the current Jedi refer to Palpatine as Sifo-Dyas? They would have to know it's the same person. And Sifo-Dyas died aroudn 10 years ago according to Ep2, or about the time of Ep1. Palpatine was a senator prior to this, and I don't think a Jedi could be a senator and member of the Jedi Console.
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Old 05-17-2002, 04:13 PM   #33
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Oh and my own personal theory about where Dokuu came from.

Granted there can only be 2 sith at a time... But I wouldn't be surprised if the Master has serveral people lined up to take the apprentice's place if needed. People that are on the verge of being turned to the dark side, but not quite there yet. Dokuu could of been one of those people.

Follow along and see if this makes sense.

Sidious basicly rased Maul from the time he was a baby, making him into a powerfull sith warrior. Durning Ep1 Maul kills Qui-Gon, and then is killed by Obi-Wan.

Sidious now needs a new lacky/apprentice and needs one quick, things are starting to happen and he doesn't have 20 years to rase a new sith warrior from childhood. So instead he pushes Dokuu over the edge and turns him to the darkside. Dokuu was a full fledged Jedi Master, so he wouldn't need much training by Sidious to be a powerful sith warrior.
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Old 05-17-2002, 06:20 PM   #34
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It is Sifo-Dyas, straight from the script.

I believe there was a real Jedi master named Sifo-Dyas, but after he died Sidious used his name to place an order for the clone army. Maybe Sidious even killed him in order to use his name.
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Old 05-17-2002, 06:45 PM   #35
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Another reason for playing both sides is that yes you get the republics clone army, but the commerce guild,trade federation and clans, are developing a planetery weapon as you seen the deathstar which the republic would create, but loyal sciencetist to the sepratist would develop the weapon to destroy the republic.
So that and the clones gives the most powerful position the Sith.


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Old 05-17-2002, 06:45 PM   #36
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Sifa dius or however you spell it has to have existed, for if he died, how could you not be able to tell he was palpatine. Dooku is playing both sides because of what I explained in my previous post under the title of "about qui gon in episode 2 ..." Go read that post and u will understand the whole scenario with Dooku and Qui Gon and the whole shabang




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Old 05-17-2002, 07:00 PM   #37
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This is all a little confusing for me too but here's my take:

Palpatine, Sidious, and Sifo-Dyas are all connected but maybe not the same people.

The council knows something about Sifo-Dyas that they're not saying. The silence and look between Yoda and Windu was very telling.

But, Why wasn't Sifo-Dyas on the council for EP1?

But, then Sifo-Dyas can't directly BE Sidious if Sifo-Dyas WAS on the council because Sidious looks exactly like Palpatine so they would have recognized him.

But, the names Sifo-Dyas and Sidious are too close for them to be separate people.

And then there's Sidious \ Palpatine who I think are separate people. There's no way the Dark-Side could have clouded the Jedi's THAT much that the most powerful force users in the Galaxy (Yoda, Windu, Anakin) could not feel a disturbance. The Dark-Side could probably cloud it enough that they can't see WHAT is happening or other details, but they MUST be able to feel a disturbance at the least. With this in mind, I think one of them is a clone of the other.

But, somehow Palpatine develops force powers VERY late in life.

Like I said it's all pretty confusing and at this point there's holes in everybodies theories.


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Old 05-17-2002, 07:54 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally posted by DarthNoodles
But, the names Sifo-Dyas and Sidious are too close for them to be separate people.

But, somehow Palpatine develops force powers VERY late in life.
Ummm how many people in the US have the last name of Smith? Basing your arugment purely on how much their names sound alike is kinda flimsy.

And I think there's way to much pointing to the fact that Palpatine and Sidious are the same person to be debated. Why would Sidious setup someone else as Emperor, and what happend to him? How did Vader become the apprentice of Palpatine, if Palpatine isn't a sith master before Anakin turns to the dark side?

No the idea they're not the same person puts way to many holes into the whole story.
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Old 05-17-2002, 09:29 PM   #39
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Its pretty obvious to me whats happening in the story, Sidious is playing both sides against each other (separatists and Republic) to get them to go to war with each other (clone war). This war will give him (palpatine) emergency powers while at the same time weakening the republic. With the republic in disarray from the clone wars he will consolidate his power and make himself emperor. I don't think he ever wanted the separatists to succeed, but it was part of his plan to gain power.
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Old 05-17-2002, 10:01 PM   #40
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ANd of course he gets the deathstar plans from the sepratist.


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BATTLE ANYBODY I DONT CARE
WHO YOU TELL
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