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Old 05-16-2002, 11:50 PM   #1
Jubatus
 
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Is there no honour left?

This is strictly about no weapons/no force duel servers, but feel free to read on even if you don't play on such.

I think it highly likely that the way you play this game reflects what kind of person you are IRL. And if that is truly the case then humanity is filled with dishonourable personalities, who, through fear of being themselves against the masses, have taken the universal rule to heart; you have to be an a**hole to get by in this world. The rule that scoring points and winning is the object of any game in life instead of the game itself.

The usual counter'argument' for this is usually that I must be a loser to speak such loser talk. In your eyes, I am.

But bear with me here; this is not a post whining about losing but stating the fact this game is filled to the brim with dishonourable players ruining alot of the fun.

Gonna list up some dishonourable acts and behaviours and the more you can answer yes to, the more dishonourable you are from my point of view.

1. Do you attack people when they're in the introductional bow, afk, typing and/or momentarily lagged out?

2. Do you attack people when they're knocked to the ground?

3. Do you flee excessively, hide from your opponent or in some other way drag out the fight even though you know several spectators are waiting their turn to duel?

4. Do you spam single moves? (This might not be considered dishonourable but definately boring)

5. Do you continiously abuse major bugs? The most noticable was DFA's hit detection and 'stubborn' max damage before 1.03 and is now replaced with the horizontal turn 'swing' with blue stance's backstab. (This could easily be fixed by making players unable to turn during this move; just like they fixed DFA)

That's all I can think of right now.

I write this because I like this game. I find it really awesome duelling others with light sabers even though it's still bugged and could use some more maneuvers. But as with any other game I wanna have fun playing it. Sure, winning is fun, but not for me if it's at the expense of others.

Oh, if you're gonna argue that playing without honour can be excused by being a dark sider, it won't hold water with me. Honour is universal and indifferent to 'good' or 'evil'.

Knowing this won't change anything I am

Jubatus
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Old 05-16-2002, 11:56 PM   #2
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I always use honor and the light side, but I don't get to mad at others who don't. When I get hacked with my saber down or somethig like that I just come back next time and mow 'em down and watch them wine.
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Old 05-17-2002, 12:01 AM   #3
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I attack people who are knocked down, but only one hit, and to the rest of the things!




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Old 05-17-2002, 12:05 AM   #4
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Honor was a idea if not religion practiced by some peoples of the world. Most noteably Japan, England.


Patton - US General of the 3rd Army

"Quote: War is not about dying for your country, war is about making the other poor son of a bitch die for his."


"Misc Quote: Nothing is fair in love and war"
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Old 05-17-2002, 12:20 AM   #5
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A duel is not a war. Big, big difference!
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Old 05-17-2002, 12:28 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally posted by KnightHawk420
Patton - US General of the 3rd Army

"Quote: War is not about dying for your country, war is about making the other poor son of a bitch die for his."
Heh, I love that quote.
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Old 05-17-2002, 12:31 AM   #7
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Quote:
Is there no honour left?
frankly, no
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Old 05-17-2002, 12:31 AM   #8
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I play NF servers and always attack people who get knocked down. It only happens in saber locks then anyway, and what's the point in knocking them down in the first place if you just let them get back up? If I click that many times to put them on the floor, I think I deserve to get the advantage.
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Old 05-17-2002, 12:39 AM   #9
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Well, I'm new here, and I dont havethe game yet (Getting it tomorrow if the Mail deliverers do their job right ) but I have an opinion here. Well if the people playing this game are like me, I like to get into the shoes of the character. Sure if I was a light jedi I'd bow down and stuff (Which I would do even if I was dark, for honor..and of the way of the Bushido... ) but a dark jedi would probably never bow down and play (Or kill) fairly...I mean...their Sith, evil, bad to the bone. Just look at the Empire Strikes back...Luke lowered his guard and turned his back...and vader made him pay for it...So I think it all depends on who your fighting and stuff, ya know? But I dont think you should whine so much about honor...to win any way possible is the way of battle....in a real fight, I wouldnt care about honor, but I'd care about my own ass, and so I'd take out that enemy any way I can! Thats just my two sense....seeya!
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Old 05-17-2002, 12:39 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally posted by Old_Ben
I always use honor and the light side, but I don't get to mad at others who don't.
I'll vouch for you oldben. And welcome to the forum, this place is nuts.


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Old 05-17-2002, 12:44 AM   #11
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Honor, Schmonor

Exactly how tall is Yoda?
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Old 05-17-2002, 01:57 AM   #12
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Is it that hard to dodge someone running at you while you are crouched?

1. By chance if you're using the Light stance, just lunge that sucker.

2. Roll any direction.

3. Somersault over/away from him.

Personally I try unarmed bows with every opponent. If they don't reciprocate, big deal. Rearming yourself is only a click away...

The only situatation in which you should be pissed at the guy who didn't bow is if he actually hits you
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Old 05-17-2002, 02:01 AM   #13
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I don't attack people who are typing, bowing, or trying to challenge, and I don't prolong duels when people are waiting.

How is attacking people when they fall down dishonorable?

What would be the point of pushing them down if you don't attack them?

Of course, killing other jedis is dishonorable but you don't see people going around the game just chatting and shaking hands.
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Old 05-17-2002, 02:03 AM   #14
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As long as their saber is drawn, I'll do whatever it takes to take 'em down.


"Do you not have faith in the force, Jedi?"
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Old 05-17-2002, 02:38 AM   #15
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I try to be honorable but if the other guy isnt, I'll do what it takes to take his ass down.
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Old 05-17-2002, 02:43 AM   #16
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it is ridiculous to call for honor to substitute balance
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Old 05-17-2002, 03:03 AM   #17
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I slice people when they get knocked out, but that's why it's in the game. Otherwise, I prefer to fight like a 'Man', with honor.
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Old 05-17-2002, 03:18 AM   #18
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Honor

Well have you forgotten what your mother told you " never play with strangers". The same applies here. I stick to a click of people who know how to play and we all agree by verbal rules. Such as, if someone starts up a game and accidently leaves the force powers on I or the host will tell the other players not to use force and we all do. The same applies to spam moves. I love a good fight and to kill someone in one kill does get very boring. The only time I ever use the spam kill is when one of them starts taunting me to the point were I will use abuse the heck outa him/her. Yes, I know, anger leads to the dark side but sometimes someone deserves what they get . what we should start is a thread in this forum and post all the names of the spammers and dishonorable players. Just as there are listing for highscores lets give these gamers something else to look at and that is there name in the dishonorable hall of fame!
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Old 05-17-2002, 09:28 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally posted by Pedantic


Heh, I love that quote.
How about this quote, it is from Apocalypse Now:
"We teach our soldiers to drop bombs on people, but they can't write f*ck on their plane because it is obscene,"

As for honor, if someone does something that annoys me , I just do it back a few times until he complains and then I tell him I'll stop it if he does too. If he doesn't, I try to chase him off the server by being a lamer everytime I see him.
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Old 05-17-2002, 11:25 AM   #20
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Re: Is there no honour left?

Quote:
Originally posted by Jubatus
1. Do you attack people when they're in the introductional bow, afk, typing and/or momentarily lagged out?
Yes in Team FFA/CTF, not in duels...

Quote:

2. Do you attack people when they're knocked to the ground?
HELL YEAH, and I'll try make it a medium backstab if I can pull it off.

Quote:

3. Do you flee excessively, hide from your opponent or in some other way drag out the fight even though you know several spectators are waiting their turn to duel?
Yes of course, I'm in so it's my right to play (although I never run), however I can understand my oponent if he is.

Quote:
4. Do you spam single moves? (This might not be considered dishonourable but definately boring)
I try not to, but then you got the terrific ass fighters, to which I just HAVE to throw my lightsabre, up their ass.

Quote:
5. Do you continiously abuse major bugs? The most noticable was DFA's hit detection and 'stubborn' max damage before 1.03 and is now replaced with the horizontal turn 'swing' with blue stance's backstab. (This could easily be fixed by making players unable to turn during this move; just like they fixed DFA)
If the other player is not trying to backstab me all the time, I do a clean fight, one on one, in front. However I use pull/push/kick/throw and all other tasty treats to nail the mother****er who tries to do one of the suggested.

Have a nice day.....


There are only two constants in this world.
1. I kill you.
2. You cry for a lightsabre damage nerf.
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Old 05-17-2002, 11:42 AM   #21
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Im with =SSC=Kal-El on this one
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Old 05-17-2002, 01:12 PM   #22
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My fav part of duels

Is watching the "honorble' players Bow 90 times and spam a buncha nonsense for the first min tell they start fighting.

Man I just love it when people waste my time.

This is a first person shooter Designed to reflect an idea we all like.

Starwars.

Not some mystical challenge for our characters.

Personly i think the people who waste my time by talking to friends they are dueling, Or bowing for a min, or standing around. Or waiting for some afk moron, Or waiting for some lagged out guy, Or wait while someone spews out some random msgs

Have no honor, and should consider the rest of the people waiting in line instead of wasting our time should try and exspediate there fight.

This is one of the main reasons i hate dueling. So friggen boring. Nothing ever changes. Same stuff over and over again.


Ctf saber/force is the game of choice. SO chaotic. No effin around. You gotta concentrate on whats going on around you.

but 1.03 effed that up
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Old 05-17-2002, 01:38 PM   #23
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Honor has no place in a video game. Why don't try telling some war veteran that you have honor cuz you bow in a video game and see what they say or do to you. I don't play games to show or prove my sense of honor, I play to have fun and take a break from the stress of a typical day. I deal with enough rules and being told what to do in real life, do you really think I'm going to let some other player tell me how I should play a video game????
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Old 05-17-2002, 02:34 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally posted by RamataKahn
Honor has no place in a video game. Why don't try telling some war veteran that you have honor cuz you bow in a video game and see what they say or do to you. I don't play games to show or prove my sense of honor, I play to have fun and take a break from the stress of a typical day. I deal with enough rules and being told what to do in real life, do you really think I'm going to let some other player tell me how I should play a video game????
very good point Kahn, he's right, a game is about fun, remember that! so next time someone calls me mr healweeny I'll chop their ass in 1 slash!


Star Reaver and Reaver of Stars, your fates are intertwined,

Become my star reaver, my angel of destruction...
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Old 05-17-2002, 02:50 PM   #25
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You are unwise to lower your defenses!
By Darth Vader.



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Old 05-17-2002, 04:05 PM   #26
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I can tell some of you didn't read my entire post before responding, but I'm used to misunderstandings occuring nomatter how well I try to formulate my posts. Alas, english is not my native language.

Seems to many of you that honour was a wrong phrase to use; some think it out of date, others that is has no place in a video game. Very well, I will update it to the phrase 'fair play' for your convenience.

To say that fair play has no place in a video game is exactly the kind of response I was expecting, but to me a duel is still 2 opponents matching their skills against one another regardless of the medium, through which they do it.

Exaggerating points of argument to throw back in the face of the source is common too; what I prefer to call a shallow crowd pleaser. Yes, I bow to my opponent before fighting. It takes about 2 seconds and then the fight is on. I do not engage in some sort of lengthy dialogue as I know others are waiting their turn.

Just because the medium for these duels are an online video game putting us anonymously at a digital distance to each other it shouldn't go to follow that we can't add a little flavour to the game by observing we're playing jedi knights.

And you keep arguing a similarity between war and duelling. The two are not the same by far.

But be this all as it may, the majority of you are confirming my real point.

Jubatus
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Old 05-17-2002, 04:16 PM   #27
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The term 'free-for-all' is a contradiction of honour. What is needed, IMHO, is for the spectators in a 'duel' game to be able to run around as 'ghost' characters so they can practise moves, etc.

I think the bowing is good, do it myself and respect it, but if someone attacks me I'll give them the benefit of the doubt, they might be new (which, unlike many of you, isn't a crime in my book). But I hate it when people have typed conversations before fighting when there are duelers queing up. It's selfish.

Quote:
Just because the medium for these duels are an online video game putting us anonymously at a digital distance to each other it shouldn't go to follow that we can't add a little flavour to the game by observing we're playing jedi knights.
Totally, but people can't bitch if there opponent doesn't agree.

Also, what I've said before is this: the sith have displayed very little honor in the films - the very existence of force lightning suggests this. Therefore, in all honesty, A sith that jumps a bowing opponent is acting more 'filmy' to me than one who returns the respect.
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Old 05-17-2002, 04:21 PM   #28
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I answered no to all but question 2, so hoorah, Jubatus thinks I'm honourable!.. I guess.

I deliberately knock people over, and then attack them... because that's a legitimate attack. If you kick someone and they fall over, it's all part of the duel to attack them while they're prone.

And, I don't kill people while they're typing and I expect my clan-mates to excercise similar restraint, but if I'm typing and someone kills me, I don't label them "evil" for all time. It's a game, after all.

Anyway, honour to me is mainly a matter of never attempting to hack the game, never insulting people etc.


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Old 05-17-2002, 04:41 PM   #29
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I usually bow, and do not try to force it on others, but I will attack ruthlessly using every trick in the book (not including one hitter) afterwards. Its not wrong to hit someone when theyre down, its legitimate, and in the character of a dark jedi. I like to be methodical, and slow in my fights, but not hold them up on purpose.
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Old 05-17-2002, 04:48 PM   #30
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I don't think anyone misunderstood your post Jubatus. I read every single post all the way through and I think everyone understood the post fairly well.

Bowing, typing and all this "honorable / fair play" stuff drags out duels. Even if it's by a few seconds.

Patience is not a virtue with many players waiting to duel. If you're last in big line waiting to duel, that 2 seconds it takes to bow each time adds up to 10 sec or more in big duel servers.

Your post would have gotten better responses if you wouldn't have added not attacking people when they fall over. That is part of the game is to knock people down to improve your chances of winning the fight.

Also, I don't spam moves like DFA and Backstab but doing it isn't dishonorable, it's BORING. big difference. So, don't label it as dishonorable

BTW, i don't spam those moves but just cause they are crap doesn't make them dishonorable

Fleeing a fight is cowardly and should only be done if you are only running away for a short period of time and improves your chances of winning the fight aka hit and run, hit and run tactics. Otherwise, it's is very selfish cause it's prolonging the duel unnecessarily.

I agree that attacking people while typing or saber is down is dishonorable and people who do that continually should be booted. I've accidently killed someone typing when i was swinging at someone standing right next to the person so one offense should be forgiven because it's usually a mistake, but someone who goes after typers should be banned.
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Old 05-17-2002, 05:19 PM   #31
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I always bow or nod, I generally will back off and turn off my saber and let my fellow warrior get out of the pit, or off the ground, or type or wait to unlag,or return to the keyboard.

I will also not generally fight someone who will not bow or nod, I will dodge till they do so, or I will leave the server. I care little for there disrespect and generally most other duelers seem to agree.

So I guess I fall into the honerable cat.
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Old 05-17-2002, 05:19 PM   #32
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People suck.

I think in *most* cases the style of play is directly linked to the maturity of the player. There are, have been and always will be players that just wanna win at any cost. I find it much easier to just avoid players that employ strategies I find boring, lame etc..

I'd bet if the ages of players were posted above their heads in the game you'd see what I mean. The younger crowd is less tempered and more agressive to the point of being oblivious as to how their actions may affect other people.

It's a game...have fun...let the ganks be ganks..they can't help it. Their payback will come as they mature in life and realize just how foolish they have been.

Seek out players that suit your style as much as you can. Sooner or later the only people left playing this game will be the ones that understand the concepts of honor, respect and good sportsmanship.
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Old 05-17-2002, 05:21 PM   #33
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did i read correctly that someone advocated a black list?

wow, so all the people who dont follow your code of honor are "commies?"


if a game needs to be based on the "honor" "system" to balance it out, then there is truely a flawed game.

you can you even suggest this?
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Old 05-17-2002, 05:24 PM   #34
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google, that is moronic.

DIDNT SOMEBODY POST THIS AS THE SABERIST CODE or some such nonsense.

this idea is laughable. impose a second set of "invisible" rules in order to have a fair fight. wow...
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Old 05-17-2002, 05:53 PM   #35
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Umm....I'm not suggesting we "impose" anything on anyone. I simply stated that when I see people spamming moves I avoid them. It doesn't even have to be spam...I fought this one guy last night and all he did was run circles around me....I got tired of chasing him down so I stopped fighting him.

The rules of FFA state "kill your opponents to score points"...it doesn't say anything about how that should be done. So the play style is left to the players to decide.

Much like the rules of any sport are to "score points", yet there are other rules about how you CAN score those points. In rl sports there are PENALTIES for poor sportsmanship... unfortunately this game has no way to impose them so the players must do it themselves. This is all we are talking about here.

There is nothing wrong with my stating a preference for the types of players I like to engage.
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Old 05-17-2002, 06:08 PM   #36
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that is silly.

when i enter a game and i am choosing what powers i want to use, the last thing on my mind should be worrying if i will be unfair if i use this config and strategy or that one.

leaving game play balance up to a "gentlemens' agreement," or "maturity level" is redicilous.
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Old 05-17-2002, 06:16 PM   #37
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I don't do that either Nathan...I decide when and where to use those powers thats all.

Games are about having fun..my idea of fun is not the same as yours. If I ever run into you in a game and don't have fun fighting you *for any reason* I am less likely to want to fight you again. Just as you may find blazing around and getting as many kills as you can fun, I find having a good fight with nice moves fun. To each his own.
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Old 05-17-2002, 08:16 PM   #38
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zenroth, that is the stupidest thing I've heard on the forums. And that is saying a lot.

Why wouldn't you fight someone unless they bow or nod?

My 5 Reasons Why that Is Dumb

1) Newbies or people that don't care for wasting time bowing or nodding aren't going to do it most likely (and they're still honorable fighters)

2) People that don't waste time bowing or nodding are more considerate to the people have to wait to fight (in duel mode)

3) Even in Karate, which is usually considered honorable, where people bow before matches, they don't take their eyes off the opponent cause who trusts somebody they are about to fight (i don't think you can bow without looking down in JK2)

4) You're limiting yourself to only fight a smaller percentage of opponents then if you fought them anyway. Thus, I'm sure you're missing the chance to hone your skills against some of the elite saberists

5) Bowing or nodding does not say that this person is honorable. You can bow and nod all you want but if you kill someone when they stop to type, you're still dishonorable.

I'm not trying to flame, I listed my reasons for making that comment.
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Old 05-17-2002, 08:20 PM   #39
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I know you said you don't kill people typing and i'm not saying you're dishonorable. I'm saying that other people out there probably bow but still will kill people anyway they can, even if it's stabbing someone in the back (aka killing a typer).

Just to clarify
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Old 05-17-2002, 08:26 PM   #40
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Re: Is there no honour left?

Quote:
Originally posted by Jubatus
This is strictly about no weapons/no force duel servers, but feel free to read on even if you don't play on such.

I think it highly likely that the way you play this game reflects what kind of person you are IRL. And if that is truly the case then humanity is filled with dishonourable personalities, who, through fear of being themselves against the masses, have taken the universal rule to heart; you have to be an a**hole to get by in this world. The rule that scoring points and winning is the object of any game in life instead of the game itself.

The usual counter'argument' for this is usually that I must be a loser to speak such loser talk. In your eyes, I am.

But bear with me here; this is not a post whining about losing but stating the fact this game is filled to the brim with dishonourable players ruining alot of the fun.

Gonna list up some dishonourable acts and behaviours and the more you can answer yes to, the more dishonourable you are from my point of view.

1. Do you attack people when they're in the introductional bow, afk, typing and/or momentarily lagged out?

2. Do you attack people when they're knocked to the ground?

3. Do you flee excessively, hide from your opponent or in some other way drag out the fight even though you know several spectators are waiting their turn to duel?

4. Do you spam single moves? (This might not be considered dishonourable but definately boring)

5. Do you continiously abuse major bugs? The most noticable was DFA's hit detection and 'stubborn' max damage before 1.03 and is now replaced with the horizontal turn 'swing' with blue stance's backstab. (This could easily be fixed by making players unable to turn during this move; just like they fixed DFA)

That's all I can think of right now.

I write this because I like this game. I find it really awesome duelling others with light sabers even though it's still bugged and could use some more maneuvers. But as with any other game I wanna have fun playing it. Sure, winning is fun, but not for me if it's at the expense of others.

Oh, if you're gonna argue that playing without honour can be excused by being a dark sider, it won't hold water with me. Honour is universal and indifferent to 'good' or 'evil'.

Knowing this won't change anything I am

Jubatus
I'm not a supporter of any of these "dishonorable" but last time I cheked people don't have to follow unofficial rules such as these.
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