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Old 05-20-2002, 03:12 PM   #1
Darth Anabolic
 
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Red face Force or no force? Opinions, please

Where's the fun, in having a saber duel with some guy that is an "expert", that will always retreat, and wait for you to get your saber up and try to attack him, and then he will keep force throwing his saber on you?
Where's the fun, in havin having a saber duel with some guy that is an "expert", that will just push/pull you and backstab you?
Where's the fun, in having a saber duel with some guy that is an "expert", when people will just go around lightning-spamming people in groups and hope to get a lucky fag frag from this group?

Sure, "absorb" is the thing against force spammers, but it still is kinda boring and lame to being forced to use force against spammers that will try lighting you down to 10 health and then backstab you?
People hardly ever use their lightsabers anymore because of the excessive force spam.
Im not saying I cant win a duelfight against someone if he spams me with force, sure there are counters, but where's the fun in that? Why not just play without any force at all?
Push/pull only, some people say. That is gay too, when people will push you out from dangerous positions and pull/backstab you all the damn time.

In my opinion: PURE SABER = PURE SKILL. (as long as there arent backslash-spammers, but we hope 1.04 will tone that down).


Now I want to know, what is your opinion on force/noforce duels/fights?

Sure, sometimes I join force servers to get a change, because it can be boring having saber only-noforce fights 3-4 hours a day, but that wont become a habit.

//Darth Anabolic
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Old 05-20-2002, 03:43 PM   #2
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> PURE SABER = PURE SKILL.

that's bullcrap, lightning spammers are no better or worse than backstab or throw spammers. Both modes of combat require different skill sets and different methods of attacking.

The guy that uses absorb full time WILL run out of force, and you will have an advantage. He WILL run out of force trying to pull you around, and you will have an advantage.

The real skill in force combat comes from reactions; my opponent is doing this, what do I have to do to stop it or what must I do to survive this tactic.

NF fights rely on timing an opponent's defense holes and exploiting them. Force fights rely on creating a defense hole and doing the same thing, and both tasks require skill.
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Old 05-20-2002, 03:51 PM   #3
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Very good point, that made me think a bit different. Thanks

//Darth Anabolic
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Old 05-20-2002, 03:58 PM   #4
Kurgan
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The way I see it, the "most skill" is required in the free for all, full force, anything goes situation. Sure, you get people who type kill and who "spam" and "camp" but it's all part of the game. That game mode has the most variables and as a result takes the longest to master. You might be able to beat inexperienced players doing the same moves over and over, but you have a LOT more options than in a one on one NF duel.

I love NF dueling, it's fun, but you can learn it a lot faster than Full Force.

The other dynamic that is sadly underplayed by many in the community is the team play skill required for games like CTF and CTY (with full force of course). That takes real skill (team strategy) and is loads of fun when people know what they're doing.

Compared to these, NF duels are chicken feed.....
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Old 05-20-2002, 04:36 PM   #5
Vestril
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CTF and CTY are far and away the games that require the most skill, CTY more so because it requires a lot more team play, IMO. If I was a nice enough and social enough person to join a decent clan and practice these games I would love playing them, but as it is I enjoy NF dueling, just because it's the most fun. I don't think it requires more skill than an FF server, I just don't happen to enjoy the extra options a FF server gives you.


Vestril was here!!!!!!!!!
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Old 05-20-2002, 05:34 PM   #6
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Xzzy......

......hits the nail on the head!

Force is a staple part of the game - its is there to be used. Nothing irritates me more than people who constantly whine about their opponents using Force. "Lightning-whore", "Pull-whore" - just shut up and play the game! If somebody likes to use their lightning, counter it. Knock some bullets up their ass! Its not hard!

No force is too strong - Drain used to be, but Raven sorted that one out good and proper. You hardly ever see drainers now Yeee-ha
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Old 05-20-2002, 09:27 PM   #7
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I could see it now,
the scene: Return of the Jedi, show down between Luke/vader/emperor
The emperor begins to fry luke, luke in his dying breaths screams out. LIGHTNING WHORE!! The emperor puzzled stops and replies, well why didn't you have absorb on, I thought you were a Jedi, and pushes luke over the edge. Vader, surprised by what he just saw, drains the emperor of his last force points and flings the emperor over the ledge. He quietly walks off the scene muttering, damn newbs and spammers.
And that's why this game is NOT like the movies, and vice-versa. Thank you.
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Old 05-21-2002, 04:02 AM   #8
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The problem is that it is far too tempting to lightning a group of people and move up that "social skill" ladder of people via frags than it is to show your skill. For example:
Dark Side Player (which I was at one time):
1) I see a group of people having a melee lightsaber fight, i have 2 options a) Lightning them in the hope I get a frag, then get killed whilst my guard is down, or b) Join in with the fighting and show some skill.
2) I see one person who has challenged me and I accept. Again, I can fight them honourably, or I can chicken out and lightning them.
When I was Dark side I used to do a combination of the both. I used to be a coward, if the melee fights weren't going my way I got out the lightning. Same with single fights. This is the reason I went to the Light side. To stop myself using the Force so much, to develop my lightsaber skills (even though I am still crap as ever).
Using Force Push and Pull are OK by my standards, that can be used strategically and in use with the saber.
There is only really one time I have seen the Force Grip used cleverly. I was running through the DeathStar level (just been killed and looking for a fight) and I came to a ledge bit where two people were fighting and there was a couple of watchers. Me being the n00b I was decided to join in. A second later I was force gripped up and thrown over the edge. I iterfeared with the battle and that was my punishment.
These are the reasons why the Dark Side is tempting, but the Light Side will always prevail.
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Old 05-21-2002, 04:33 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by Xzzy


The real skill in force combat comes from reactions; my opponent is doing this, what do I have to do to stop it or what must I do to survive this tactic.

If only more players thought like Xzzy...
That point is at the very heart of what makes these silly games so fun, it's a test to see who can use the most effective technique to overcome his opponent. Can those techniques be cheap? Sure, but if you are better you should be able to counter whatever they try and throw at you.

Instead we get...
"But...but you have to take <insert any damn move here> out in the next patch because all these <insert any damn move here> whores do nothing but spam <insert any damn move here>!!!
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Old 05-21-2002, 05:18 AM   #10
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Your exactly right Homosexual Ewok (must contain laughter, name too damn funny to write, crud, HAHA ). Take the DFA, was it a power move, or was it easily counterable and that people just weren't creative enough to counter it? I used to kick DFA spammers asses, it was so easy to just roll and way and chuck my saber at them, or lightning them, or grip them, or...well, you get the idea. Still, people complained, and thus it got nerfed (and now it's even easier to counter, grrr). People are now complaining about backstab and it's cousin the heavy backlash. Once again, roll away and chuck your saber at them. I have yet to lose a duel to EITHER of these moves. Just because it's so easy to flip on absorb, and dodge there feeble attempts to nail me with these moves. Hell, the only time I use these moves are when I get surrounded. They make for an easy time to get out of getting gangbanged. Just backlash, or backstab and do a 360 spin (I've got my mouse sensitivity maxed so the spin takes a split second to do ). That simple, boom, your no longer surrounded.

Quote:
The real skill in force combat comes from reactions; my opponent is doing this, what do I have to do to stop it or what must I do to survive this tactic.
Your exactly right Xzzy. If only more people thought like you did.
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Old 05-21-2002, 07:55 AM   #11
Darth Anabolic
 
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Very good points here.
I actually played two hours of Saber only and force-on servers and it wasn't too bad, after I started realizing how to counter spammers.
Of course it's still no fun with people only spamming all the time and hope I have my absorb down, but it's a pleasure to get them down with a nice level 3 backslash after they have lightning-spammed me like 25 times before I have reached them!

//Darth Anabolic
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Old 05-21-2002, 08:55 AM   #12
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It's all part of the game, so learn to counter it. This is why I am light side (Heal)

Backstab can be avoided if your ping is low enough in a 1 vs 1, but in a larger group, it's harder.

Lightning's range is limited, so get out of it and heal yourself.

Like I said before, Dark side is generallly for newbs because it contains so many cheap moves.


If 3 of 4 people suffer from constapation, does that mean that one person enjoys it?
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Old 05-21-2002, 10:13 AM   #13
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Dark side for n00bs??

Ive been playing this game since day dot, and I'm a darker! Its called dark side for a reason, you know What would you really rather do? Run around like a ponce with your protect and heal, or choke somebody to death?

Dark is more fun!

Anyway, my point is that you cannot say Dark is any cheaper than Light! Get NS Streets up, and show me one Light that doesnt run about with absorb on, preventing you from push/pulling him, yet will push/pull himself! Surely the equivalent 'cheapness' to a Dark frying himself some frags?

Swings & roundabouts, swings & roundabouts.

Dark is simply more fun.
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Old 05-21-2002, 11:49 AM   #14
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Thats all bullcrap. Its all part of the game, I think the people who play FFA deserve it.

When Im in a FFA game, I try to have as many duels as possible.

If you want a FFA and want to use your sabre, try killing a whole tribe of sand people, dont play JKII online in a FFA game.

Just my $0.02 credits worth.
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Old 05-21-2002, 02:42 PM   #15
Darth Anabolic
 
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Alright people, I think I've been early with starting this thread.
After excessive hours of playing on public Force-on and Saber Only servers, I've realized im still getting top 3 all the time, and I learn to use force powers more and more for every game.

I met lots of lightning-spammers on the top of the scoreboard but they all went down after I hit back with absorb, pull and red stance attacks, and also backslashing, of course. Man that felt good, to cut apart those lightning-spammers..


I think Im gonna play lots of FFA/Duel Force servers from now, when I have learnt using the force powers better.

//Darth Anabolic
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