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Thread: Father, I sinned. I must make a confession...
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Old 05-22-2002, 08:27 AM   #1
Bluezman
 
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Wink Father, I sinned. I must make a confession...

Ok, I did it. It was just too tempting. I couldn't resist. I need to tell you so that I feel better.
I lamed, I played cheap, I was severely tempted by the cheap side...

Here's the story:

Yesterday, I just wanted to know about this Pull/Backstab tactic. I have read about it, people have whined about it, people have posted counter tactics and so forth. Now, I just wanted to know WHAT IT IS ALL ABOUT...

So I joined this server (Sabers only, selected Force Powers (Jump, Push/Pull, Absorb, Dark Rage, Saber Throw). Turned out to be one big bunch of lamers like I've never seen before. Have you read leelinks thread "What makes a player cheap?"?

http://www.lucasforums.com/showthrea...threadid=53762

It was like 15 people studied it in depth and then said: "lets open a server and try all of it. In one game."

Jeez, it was all there: DFA spamming, Pull/Backstab spamming, Turning saber off hiding in a dark and then whacking away at people passing by, pushing off ledges, killing people typing, telling people to "wait" and then backstab them, running away from a private duel and then coming back lightning spamming (while the opponent still thinks he's in a duel).... man, it was ALL THERE, the extract of the cheap side, all on one server!

So I thought: well, it's now or never. I MUST know, how this pull/backstab works.

Let me tell you that I am no n00b.
I beat the game in SP, I read on the forums, I studied different guides on force and saber tactics, I practiced saber moves in empty maps, I only started playing online when I could beat a whole server full of Jedi Master bots 10 out of 10 times.
I am not bragging about my skills here, because I really do not consider myself an elite player. Usually I end up somewhere in the first half of a server, so still lots of things to learn for me here. All I am saying is that, the skills I have, I built slowly and progressively by really studying the game (and I still have a long way to go...)

So what I did in this game, I limited myself to just one thing:

Red stance, Pull, Backsweep attack.

I did this over and over and over and over again. Man, I really sucked. I ran into big saber balls, performing the move and killing three people at one time. I ran up into people that were involved into 1vs1 saber fighting for 1 minute already and ruined their fun by pulling both down ad 1-hit-killing both of them. "And not only the male: women..., children... *sob*" I did all that and I hated myself for it. Only the fact that they were ALL lamers kept me from typing an excuse after each kill

What can I say: In less than 10 minutes I racked up 30 kills, being number 1 on the server, the next player having around 10 kills.

It is ridiculous, it is pathetic.... and actually: IT IS FUN!!!
.
.
.
Yes, it is fun, but only for about 10 minutes.
Then it gets so boring like you won't believe it.

You probably think: what's this guy getting at?!

This just hit me, I mean I read all about it in the forums, people complaining and whining and I knew, well its a tactic easy to perform and rather difficult to counter. I am not even complaining here, I am not whining or anything, it just hit me just HOW EASY it is! I mean, I always thought, well, it probably still requires some skill to pull of the backsweep move correctly, you are open for hits while performing this slow move and all that. I always thought, well these people stating "this doesn't require any skill" are elite players, these people that used to rip me into pieces back when playing UT, Counter Strike, Quake etc. (never been good at those...). So if THEY say, it requires no skill, it probably still requires *some* skill at least.
Uh-uh, fugadaboudid. It is just *SO* plain easy, it hurts. Really.


The good thing is: I feel better now. I know that the game is not about being number 1 on the server. On the servers I usually play on (which is where I get the best pings) probably only 5% of the players read these forums. So most of them don't even know about pull/backstab. They don't even know terms like DFA. So using this tactic on that kind of server probably makes me number 1 pretty much 8 out of 10 times.

So what? Getting number one this way is just no fun! Getting the most fun out of the game now resolves around finding the really skilled players on the map and duel with them or do proper saber fighting. Getting number one just doesn't matter anymore.

Is that a good thing? I am not getting into any "nerf-this", "patch-that" discussion here, we've had this before. I think, it would be easier if "most fun = number 1 on the server". To really achieve this, well, thats the secret of game balancing, I guess... (did I hear anyone say "1.04"? )

Well, now I can just go and have fun and just dont give a d4mn about whos number one on the server, as long as I am having fun. Life can be so simple

However, I needed to confess this. I promise, not to use this lame tactic anymore. Please forgive me.


Ahh, I feel better, now that I confessed my crime and eased my mind...
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Old 05-22-2002, 09:53 AM   #2
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it's an incredibly easy thing to spam, but narrowing it to a fine art is extremely hard. i can backstab at a moving player about 50% of the time now, sometimes it hits them, sometimes it doesnt. if someone's spamming me with something, running at me backwards spamming light style, or generally getting on my nerves, i'll push em over and backstab em. im trying to work on removing the push/pull element of the attack. i find that push works better than pull as well, especially as often you pull a large and rather nasty saber swing straight into your face.
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Old 05-22-2002, 11:41 AM   #3
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Best defence I've seen against this move works this way:

Make sure you're on Medium stance (yellow)
Get THEM in nice and close.
Wait until they start the backswing animation.
Do the jumping-medium-downward-swing-with-your-feet-flying-in-the-air-move. (jump+attack with your target under you)

Turn in mid-air so your backswing will definately hit your target. This is a killing move if they have no shields, you tag them right in the head. The timing is imperative though.

WARNING: There is at least a second of recovery time needed when the move completes, watch out for opportunists.
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Old 05-22-2002, 12:15 PM   #4
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Red face nice idea...

... but isn't the problem that you are lying on the ground when they perform the backsweep, since they have pulled you down?

You can use it though if their pull fails. Most of these spammers hit pull and immediately turn to do the backsweep without looking if they really knocked you down. If you have turned absorb on you can quickly go into that yellow dfa move.

Good idea, I'll try that...
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Old 05-22-2002, 12:36 PM   #5
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I was actually thinking more about the ass-fighters who just run backwards hitting the attack button (man, those are funny to watch).

I fight Light side for the most part, and I have Absorb set to mousewheeldown (down on the mouse wheel) so I can turn it on and off quick. I have Push set to mousewheelup.

I turn it on to stop from being pulled down but then step in close on purpose because, as you said, most don't look and just try the backsweep anyway.

If you know they are pulling you, set yourself to the Heavy stance and start a swing when you think they'll pull you. They should get a face full of heavy saber.


I've taken to Pushing or Pulling people down who do that and doing the backsweep/stab a couple of times to let them know I can do it to, then I start Pushing/Pulling them down and just standing over them and looking down. I let them get up, if they try it again I push 'em down again and do the same thing.

It's like training puppies...they get the idea eventually...
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Old 05-22-2002, 12:43 PM   #6
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Thumbs up

LOL

I like that "training puppies" part. I'll do that... Though there's more of 'em than we can handle I fear...
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Old 05-22-2002, 01:20 PM   #7
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Yeah, they breed like n00bs...
I like that phrase, "Breed like n00bs".
I think I'll have it mongrammed onto my smoking jacket....

But I digress...

Dammit! I just noticed...I'm a damned Ewok now. I liked being a BattleDroid!

Who thought up this hierarchy?

Ooowa-meecha tarango Ewok (I'm a dumbass Ewok!)
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Old 05-22-2002, 01:27 PM   #8
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"Breed like n00bs"... great.

I'm Bantha Fodder. What do Banthas eat, anyways? I hope not Ewoks
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