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Old 05-28-2002, 04:28 AM   #1
Fatninja
 
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How powerful SHOULD it be? (BS)

How powerful do ya'll think that the backstab should be? I think it should be strong, but take 4 hits at least to kill a new-spawned person, that way it would be useful in combos but not be an over-powerful attack.

What do you think?

Also, is there like a petition to sign or anything to make them get rid of the current backstab?:P


Signatures are like women, all the good ones are taken.
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Old 05-28-2002, 04:31 AM   #2
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hitting someone from behind you should certainly not be the most powerful move in the game, but frankly, if they change the game again, I'm going to stop playing it...see how they feel about that.

oh, wait...they already have my ****ing money and me ceasing to play it will make no difference what so ever to them.

way to make MAJOR GAMEPLAY CHANGES when our power as consumers has expired, raven. GOD-DAMMMMMM.

-HP
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Old 05-28-2002, 04:36 AM   #3
Nathan Wind
 
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bring back 1.02 is the moral of the story... but with eax *thumbs up*


bait and switch is just plain stealing, raven
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Old 05-28-2002, 04:52 AM   #4
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You can't really call it bait and switch when they aren't making much of a profit from it. I think it is sad that people are taking their anger out on the name of the makers of the game. They are only trying to make people happy. They can't magically find a way to make the game appeal to everyone. Most game mods go through many betas and change many things, this is or should be no different. I don't like the current backstab either but it doesn't mean that I think everyone at raven is stupid or that they are trying to rip me off. I think they've come very far. They certainly have raised the bar for games in my eyes. I've never played a FPS that had so much action on so many different levels while maintaining a strong story (not the best in the JK series but better than quake or doom). I just think that people who play the game just want to get ahead through any means. I even find myself backstabbing and trying to knock people over, just so I can try and get a couple kills in my constant streak of deaths.
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Old 05-28-2002, 05:01 AM   #5
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I agree with Dan

At least they're making another patch.

Don't complain until you see the changes in the next patch at least.

What stinks is if you buy a game such as Earth 2150 and it's the buggiest game ever and it's never patched at all. THAT'S WHEN YOU COMPLAIN. Don't complain when they're trying to fix it.
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Old 05-28-2002, 05:06 AM   #6
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but that's what patches are for...fixing bugs. It's absolutely rediculous to change core game mechanics with a patch. The game should be balanced BEFORE RELEASE.

-HP
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Old 05-28-2002, 05:14 AM   #7
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I agree but until it's not profitable to release buggy games, it's gonna be done.

The only way for that to happen is for people just to stop buying games (and it has to be a large number of people). Plus they have to know why people aren't buying the game in the first place.

Reviews nowadays don't really list bugs most of the time. They'll say if a game is ruined by bugs but all reviewests seem to look past bugs as long as it doesn't totally ruin the game.

So, with no way to know exactly what bugs exist without trial and error, there are always gonna be those people that buy the game the first day it comes out.

Making it profitable for companies to release buggy games on the planned release date because it has a lot of hype and will sell anyway

--A buck today is worth more tomorrow

--Society as a whole is dumb and naive. A good seller can sell binoculars to a blind man.
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Old 05-28-2002, 05:38 AM   #8
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People wanted Saber fighting more like SP:
They got it.

People wanted better blocking:
They got it.

People wanted certain force powers toned down:
They got it.

People wanted the DFA toned down:
They got it.

You guys wanted it and you got it. Now you're still bitching and crying about it like little girls. Except now its about backstabs and what not - But they are just as they were in 1.02a. It's pathetic. No, its not pathetic, you people just aren't happy unless you're bitching about something. That is what's pathetic. Except for very few things, they only did what people asked them to do. Be careful what you wish for, it may come back to bite you in the ass.

You reap what you sew. Suck it up and adapt.
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Old 05-28-2002, 06:45 AM   #9
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I am not usually one for nerfing a move, but I think we need to discourage players from running around backwards! Make the backstab as powerful as the blue lunge and its perfect. I hate watching everyone running around backwards. It kills the star wars feel. You would think it would leave you totally defenseless, but with the saber auto blocking now defaulted on at the serve you can run around backwards and kill in one hit without much worry.
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Old 05-28-2002, 07:30 AM   #10
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Actually, the BS move had it's damage ramped up significantly for the blue stance (and AFAIK, ONLY the blue stance). The other two simply "hit" at several points in the animation, thereby doing a bucket of damage.

I can live with people running around backwards like headless chickens. I just laugh, because it's FUNNY. Eventually they may learn, but I care not, because I know how to avoid/deal with them (even if I'm not 100% successful).

The ones that REALLY get on my wick are the pull/backstabbers. It's annoying to have someone constantly pulling you till you fal flat, then they BS you. (before you start jumping on me, I know all the counters, but it doesn't stop it being annoying). If the animation/move was altered so it could no longer hit people lying down and or getting up, then half the problem would vanish.

Reducing the damage won't make the problem go away - it's just mean they have to do it more often, which isn't any better at all.
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Old 05-28-2002, 09:22 AM   #11
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happy prancer said it best. patches are for bugs.


i dont understand how some of you can be so hypocritical.

you say its not bait and switch, but then you go on to say that raven makes a profit off of crappy bugs.


then you liken the unbalances in 1.03 to bugs, which they are certinly not.

1.03 has new game mechanics.

freezing in 1.03 is a bug.

ammo depletion was a mistake.

invisible absorb is ludacris.


i am so frightened of the new patch its not even funny.
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Old 05-28-2002, 09:31 AM   #12
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Ammo depletion is a mistake? You think everyone should have infinite ammo? Why? THAT'S ludicrous.

Invisible absorb was necessary - it had not practical use before apart from breaking grip, or if you had someone who inisted on using lightning. At least it shows up if you hit them with a force power. granted absorb may last for too long now, but the previous setting was also too fast. Again that made it worthless.

Why do I get this feeling you love grip/lightning and guns? Just a hunch. i'm not saying anything bad about either, just making a guess based on your statments.
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Old 05-28-2002, 09:36 AM   #13
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I agree,

Make backstab as powerful as the forward lunge for all stances and it will be fine,

Also sort the animation, so it hits once mebbe twice.


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Old 05-28-2002, 09:41 AM   #14
Nathan Wind
 
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i play ffa ff. i play dark and light. i use sabers and guns. i have a very good, in depth understanding of this game and its balance.


that was the reason for absorb. not to cripple the dark arsenol, but to work as a device to descourage them from using lightning, drain, and grip.

by ammo depletion, i was being unclear. how about, "increasing the ammo depletion rate?" make more sense? and yes, it was a mistake.

an invisible absorb only helps gunners far more than you realize. it becomes a game of keeping distance from one another as there becomes no viable counter for guns and not an even playing field.

yes i play dark. i play dark and i use lightning and grip and guns and sabers. i used to play light, but it was too easy and most average players couldnt begin to counter anything i did.


why do i get the feeling that you only play with sabers, bitched about dfa, force and guns, and have no real idea what your talking about in terms of balance outside of a 1v1 duel match?

Last edited by Nathan Wind; 05-28-2002 at 01:26 PM.
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Old 05-28-2002, 10:01 AM   #15
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Re: How powerful SHOULD it be? (BS)

How powerfull backstab should be ???

Well currently it seems to be "slowmotion"
unblockable instakill move...

I think it should be normal speed quite easily
blockable instakill move so it should be used
as a finishing move after you have knocked
down enemy saber
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Old 05-28-2002, 12:02 PM   #16
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Quote:
why do i get the feeling that you only play with sabers, bitched about dfa, force and guns, and have no real idea what your talking about in terms of balance outside of a 1v1 duel match?
I'm sorry, but I have to laugh at that. If you care to look over some of the old pre-patch posts you'll see I was in fact a strong proponenet of the DFA, on the grounds that it was so laughably easy to dodge (Though I concur that the hitbox was a problem) Granted I did complain about Drain being overpowered, but that was my only real objection to any of the force powers. I now think that drain is UNDER powered, as are most of the dark side powers (this despite playing light side almost exclusively). The only game types I DON'T play on are Jedi Master and Holocron FFA types, mostly because finding a server with a decent ping of those types is surprisingly hard. I do play duel, I also duel in ffa game, but exclusively? No.
I *do* prefer saber only games, but I like the saber combat aspect of JK2, if I wanted to play Q3, I would have (ew). As a result, I tend to stick to saber only servers. Problem?

Under the circumstances you described, Absorb does indeed seem too powerful. the fact I had not encountered it is only because I, as stated before, tend towards saber only servers (but not exclusively)
Thank you for clarifying the thing about ammo depletion. It was certainly unclear the first time. From the experience I've had, ammo depletion rates don't seem to be a problem, but feel free to ignore this, since I PATENTLY don't know what I'm talking about :>

Nathan, I was not trying to insult you, but clearly I have, that was not my intention and I apologise. I should really flame you in response your undeserved attack, but I think the fact that you have so clearly stuck your foot in your mouth will instead satisfy my indignation.
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Old 05-28-2002, 12:11 PM   #17
ALIEN_JL
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Force powers.....

Go there --> http://www.lucasforums.com/showthrea...threadid=57378
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Old 05-28-2002, 12:17 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally posted by Con. Snake
People wanted Saber fighting more like SP:
They got it.

People wanted better blocking:
They got it.

People wanted certain force powers toned down:
They got it.

People wanted the DFA toned down:
They got it.

You guys wanted it and you got it. Now you're still bitching and crying about it like little girls. Except now its about backstabs and what not - But they are just as they were in 1.02a. It's pathetic. No, its not pathetic, you people just aren't happy unless you're bitching about something. That is what's pathetic. Except for very few things, they only did what people asked them to do. Be careful what you wish for, it may come back to bite you in the ass.

You reap what you sew. Suck it up and adapt.
Damn straight!


STOP BITCHING ABOUT THE PATCH ALREADY! NO ONE CARES!
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Old 05-28-2002, 01:22 PM   #19
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Stop crying you lamers and deal.. I have found ways to counter everything you guys are constantly bitching about.. OMG just learn to play.. Raven excellent game before the patch.. Excellent game after the patch.. Keep up the good work and if you change it again in 1.04 I will adapt.

Thanks,

KFJ
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Old 05-28-2002, 01:36 PM   #20
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lol, sure sutek
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Old 05-28-2002, 01:47 PM   #21
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god..

GOD you guys make me sick, You complainers about backstab are the EXACT same fuc*king people who compliained about DFA and heavy being too strong and all that crap. YOU CREATED backstab to be like this. YOU WANTED the saber strength to be toned down so they did, and now THAT's why runnign around backwards is possible. If you did that in 1.02 you would have DIED, like YOU SHOULD HAVE. You guys have nothing better to do than complain when you lose. Instead, why don't you take an hour out of your complaining mouth and go and learn how to counter these moves. GOD , just SHUT UP already and STOP making this game worse and worse.
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Old 05-28-2002, 02:43 PM   #22
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Nathan Wind,

I'm not going to bother arguing this any further. If you choose not to believe the truth, go ahead. I've tried to apologise for my unintentional insult, I conceded where you were correct, and didn't even resort to garbled swearing of the l33t style. Flaming me will only make me stronger.

Besides, I originally only posted my thoughts on potential alterations to the BS move, I for one will continue to play the game whether Raven choose to patch it again or not. I simply don't mind, and I'll adapt to whatever changes it throws up.
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Old 05-28-2002, 02:46 PM   #23
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me too. only it seems that thats where the friction comes in. and that was some apology before.
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Old 05-28-2002, 02:51 PM   #24
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awww

You guys kiss and make up now...LOL...we need a strnog presence here guys...those who thought 1.02 was better than 1.03..we gotta send those emails so whiners don't get the upper hand...goddamn it...
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Old 05-28-2002, 02:53 PM   #25
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..

JEDI OUTCAST - EPISODE 2 - ATTACK OF THE WHINERS
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Old 05-28-2002, 03:03 PM   #26
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Thank you. I don't usually TRY and insult people (just happens sometimes...)

I think that both versions have their strong points. I liked the way a lot of the force powers used to work, and I like the new, imporved saber blocking (now I now how to fight with it).

The old DFA was powerful, but easily dodgeable, despite the odd bug with the hitbox. I'm fine with the current version, but I'd like to be able to aim up and down with it (the number of times I land on peoples HEADS without dealing damage...for crying out loud :> ) The new backstabs are also ok, but they could do with not hitting those on the ground (prevent the pull/BS from being a problem). Heal needs to decide which it'll have: increased costs for 1.02 healing levels, or decreased healing for 1.02 costs. atm it's nigh on useless unless at level 3 (and it's poo even then). Absorb could do with having it's cost raised to somewhere between 1.02 and 1.03, but overall I think it should remain invisible. Protect should also become invisible, and desperately needs bumping up in usefulness.
Grip needs to do more damage, possibly slow movement of victim a little. Drain needs it's cost lowering, but in 1.02 it was too fast (drain you to empty before you could react). If the rate of force drain was lowered (so the cost was the same to empty someone, but took longer to do it).

I think I've posted these thoughts elsewhere before, but I don't expect everyone to like them :> Constructive criticism please? (It's all academic anyway, but nice to see what people think of them)
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Old 05-28-2002, 04:40 PM   #27
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backstab should be a finisher move. which means you fight and then use it to finish the guy off.


the medium finisher takes like 50 points off. i think the backstab should be the same. actually though they should be around 25% of your life because if you end up killing them with a backstab atleast you REALLY had to fight to get the kill.
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Old 05-28-2002, 04:50 PM   #28
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ummm

umm...I don't know WHICH medium finisher you're talking about..but the ones I know are 1 hit kills bud....

1) back sweep
2) over head finisher

both are 1 hit kills..but the over head finisher has to connect more cleanly than the backsweep.
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Old 05-28-2002, 07:31 PM   #29
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uh not really, ive taken hits from medium finishers and not died and so have i hit others and they have not died.


they are not one hit kills.. unless someone hacked em or something. they take a lot of damage , but you shouldnt gonna die from a medium finisher with full health.
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Old 05-28-2002, 07:40 PM   #30
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hmm..then you must have lots of shields, because medium finisher does more than 100/25 damage. There are countless threads complaining about this move along with backstab. It is a move I use constantly, so I know it's a 1 hit finisher...he must not be hitting you as cleanly as he should.
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Old 05-28-2002, 07:51 PM   #31
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*sigh*
In my opinion:
think the blue bs should be a 25-30 pt hit. You should not be able to 'spin' it, nor should you be able hit someone flat on their back. Please note that I am answering the original post, and not offering insulting comments or whining.
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Old 05-28-2002, 07:54 PM   #32
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well..

Hey, If you have any other questions about special move damage, here is the website of the ASC ....he put up a complete saber/force guide for 1.03. ALthough I do not agree with the ASC on some points, their guide is good. check it out...(and hes..medium finisher is 1 hit move )


http://www.oculis.org/asc/guides/saberguide_103.html
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