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Old 05-28-2002, 02:02 AM   #1
Yoojin
 
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Sick of this BS [All Whiners Read]

I am totally sick of people calling this cheap and that cheap and you're a fag etc.. etc... I backstab....SO F'ING WHAT?!?! It's in the game, if you actually learned to backstab you would know that there is alot of skill involved in a duel with backstabbers. Force pull, force absorb, run up turn backstab, run up kick, so many options. Walk up blue sabre lunge.

I don't understand how people can say its cheap. If i knock you down with a force pull what am I supposed to do? Go for a less damaging move bcause you get frustrated? If you're dueling with no force and you get backstabbed Im sorry but you deserved it. Next time, dont be there next to him if he has his back turned. Or better yet KICK THE GUY TO KNOCK HIM DOWN AND THEN BACKSTAB HIM YOURSELF. THERE IS A COUNTER TO EVERY MOVE IN THIS GAME LEARN. Just because you DON'T know the counter to a backstab doesn't mean its cheap. Learn the game.

It might just be human nature to call whatever you can't beat cheap. I was on sabre only no force duel server, and I was kicking people down. People were saying kicking is cheap. EVERY PERSON SAYS SOMETHING ELSE IS CHEAP. I guess I'll just pick blue style, hold down the F'ING BUTTON AND RUN AROUND LIKE A N00B?!?! THAT'S PROLLY THE ONLY WAY YOU WON'T GET CALLED CHEAP IN THE GAME. Raise your skill level people. Have you ever seen a fight between 2 backstabbers? It's awesome. DO YOU KNOW WHY? Because we have to fight extremely well since we know 1 mistake can lead to death. 1 bad kick, 1 bad force pull, 1 bad dfa, 1 bad rush, 1 bad lunge. It's a GREAT thing.

And you know what? When people kill me I say GF. When I win people say you're a fag. Who's the one with no class? I'm sorry if you don't have the skill to adapt and learn the game. I've moved on to higher skill things in this game you're stuck on blue sabre hold down button rush. WOW THATS SO FUN. THE WHOLE GAME IS BASED ON LUCK!!!! I might as well play with my eyes closed.

Final words.... LEARN IT OR LEARN TO DEAL WITH IT. IT'S IN THE F'ING GAME, I'M GONNA DO THE BEST OF MY ABILITIES TO WIN. IF IT'S SO CHEAP AND I'M A 1 MOVE WHORE, HOW COME IF YOU KNOW MY 1 MOVE IS COMING YOU CAN'T BEAT IT?!?!?!?!?! YOU HAVE NO SKILL END OF STORY. I beat other backstabbers all day. WHY?!?! Cuz I use my entire arsenal!!!!! DEAL WITH IT IT'S IN THE GAME. <FIN>


Yoojin


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Old 05-28-2002, 02:23 AM   #2
Xzzy
 
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learning a single move and running all over the map spamming it is not skill. Okay, sure, you spent a few minutes learning the timing, and how to lure people in.

But it ignores so much of what the game has to offer that I see no problems calling backstab whores no skill losers.

Real skill comes from being able to take down an enemy a dozen different ways. Using the same tactic every damn time just paints you as a one trick pony, and that's not a good thing.
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Old 05-28-2002, 02:32 AM   #3
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Wait a sec, why should we change our tactic, if people lose to it constantly? That makes no sense. We'll do other things when they actually beat us. Geez, real skill comes from winning a dozen different ways. Sigh. Why should we bother using the dozen different ways when all you guys do is whine, flame us, then vote to kick? Lets not turn this into a flame war, but it seems its ALWAYS the guys that complain about the backstabbers on a server that are the most inconsiderate, flaming, cursing people there. Sorry, but you would see the skill if you actually did it. Try watching a duel between 2 backstabbers, that understand lunging, dfa, kicking, rolling, and other things. It's a great thing. Sorry, but you can't say it takes no skill if you can't beat it. I'm not gonna limit myself in wins because you feel I do one move too many times. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.


Yoojin
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Old 05-28-2002, 03:00 AM   #4
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> Wait a sec, why should we change
> our tactic, if people lose to it
> constantly?

because it implies you are a thinking, judging rational being with the capacity to alter their actions based on the circumstances around them.

The only real reason "changing tactics" causes people to lose is beacuse the "dominant tactics", ie backstabbing, are so disproportionatley powerful that people are unwilling to try anything else.

> I'm not gonna limit myself in wins
> because you feel I do one move too
> many times.

See your first problem is assuming that the only way of measuring success is by frag count.

> but it seems its ALWAYS the guys that
> complain about the backstabbers on a
> server that are the most inconsiderate,

Please pick a debate and stick to it.. are you starting this thread to complain about people hating you for your tactics, or are you starting this thread to state that backstab spamming requires skill?
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Old 05-28-2002, 03:25 AM   #5
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I'm really torn on this subject. When 1.03 first came out I hated backstabbers, then I learned how to do it (thanks to Artifex). Then I hated those who whined about backstabbers. So, I learned and developed my kicks and the medium finisher and avoided using the backstab, just to quiet those who feel the backstab is cheap. Now I have folks complain that I kick too much and use the medium finisher too much. I canít win. (PS I still canít do DFA on purpose)
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Old 05-28-2002, 03:37 AM   #6
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Xyzzy is right.

You're wrong.

Pull/Backstab takes ZERO skill.

I know, because *I* can do it.

Its overpowered, ergo its cheap.

Any saber strike that does 150+ damage in one hit and is so easy to land (again *I* know what I'm talking about) is overpowered and people that CONSTANTLY use it (I mean those that spam it) are by definition

cheap.

Thanks for playing.
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Old 05-28-2002, 03:43 AM   #7
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seriously guys, theres a whole lot of types of player out there

I'm more of a kicker/backstabber , I've seen people use force pull/backstab a lot, and Yes, I have fallen to this tactic too(force absorb can run out in the worst possible times!), but no, i don't call it cheap. Something is ONLY cheap when theres no way to counter it. Backstab has counters, like every move on JK2. that patch was the best thing to happen to this game. some people are just sore losers so they call people name or accuse em of cheating or scripting

one time, i was in a ffa server in a private duel( the "k" duel) we both jumped toward each other and I kicked him in midair and ran in for the blue backstab, the guy started yelling "CHEATER" and initiated a vote to kick me, but it failed, so he wants a rematch, we go at it again, I abide my time, while he's running around backward trying to backstab, he gets it off a few times, but i always kick him away, one time he falls down and I backstab again, he said "fag" and disconnected. Don't whine about whiners, they are everywhere on the internet in every games

Live with them, they won't go away, besides, its fun to kill those guys, they are usualy newbies or disgruntled 1.02 players

anyway, thats my take on the issue, if you see a blue swamptrooper called cYbErDuD on a saber only server, thats me!
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Old 05-28-2002, 04:09 AM   #8
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>posted by Aerys:
>Xyzzy is right.
>
>Youre Wrong

What am I wrong about? I made a statement about my playing style and how others react to it in relation to the subject at hand. Did I misinterpret their reactions?
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Old 05-28-2002, 05:12 AM   #9
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Re: Sick of this BS [All Whiners Read]

Quote:
Originally posted by Yoojin
I am totally sick of people calling this cheap and that cheap and you're a fag etc.. etc... I backstab....SO F'ING WHAT?!?! It's in the game, if you actually learned to backstab you would know that there is alot of skill involved in a duel with backstabbers. Force pull, force absorb, run up turn backstab, run up kick, so many options. Walk up blue sabre lunge.

I don't understand how people can say its cheap. If i knock you down with a force pull what am I supposed to do? Go for a less damaging move bcause you get frustrated? If you're dueling with no force and you get backstabbed Im sorry but you deserved it. Next time, dont be there next to him if he has his back turned. Or better yet KICK THE GUY TO KNOCK HIM DOWN AND THEN BACKSTAB HIM YOURSELF. THERE IS A COUNTER TO EVERY MOVE IN THIS GAME LEARN. Just because you DON'T know the counter to a backstab doesn't mean its cheap. Learn the game.

It might just be human nature to call whatever you can't beat cheap. I was on sabre only no force duel server, and I was kicking people down. People were saying kicking is cheap. EVERY PERSON SAYS SOMETHING ELSE IS CHEAP. I guess I'll just pick blue style, hold down the F'ING BUTTON AND RUN AROUND LIKE A N00B?!?! THAT'S PROLLY THE ONLY WAY YOU WON'T GET CALLED CHEAP IN THE GAME. Raise your skill level people. Have you ever seen a fight between 2 backstabbers? It's awesome. DO YOU KNOW WHY? Because we have to fight extremely well since we know 1 mistake can lead to death. 1 bad kick, 1 bad force pull, 1 bad dfa, 1 bad rush, 1 bad lunge. It's a GREAT thing.

And you know what? When people kill me I say GF. When I win people say you're a fag. Who's the one with no class? I'm sorry if you don't have the skill to adapt and learn the game. I've moved on to higher skill things in this game you're stuck on blue sabre hold down button rush. WOW THATS SO FUN. THE WHOLE GAME IS BASED ON LUCK!!!! I might as well play with my eyes closed.

Final words.... LEARN IT OR LEARN TO DEAL WITH IT. IT'S IN THE F'ING GAME, I'M GONNA DO THE BEST OF MY ABILITIES TO WIN. IF IT'S SO CHEAP AND I'M A 1 MOVE WHORE, HOW COME IF YOU KNOW MY 1 MOVE IS COMING YOU CAN'T BEAT IT?!?!?!?!?! YOU HAVE NO SKILL END OF STORY. I beat other backstabbers all day. WHY?!?! Cuz I use my entire arsenal!!!!! DEAL WITH IT IT'S IN THE GAME. <FIN>


Yoojin
He does have a point. As I've learned in many duels. Two players who know their pull well defensively and offensively will have some of the best duels against eachother. The people usually complaining, or usually being defeated by this, are those who don't know the manuever well enough defensively. You may say you do, but if you are constantly being killed by it, and complaining, you might wanna rethink your answer. After much observing and playing in duels, I've learned to use pull well both ways. I'm not pulled down early, and I'm not dying. I'm having a good duel with another good player which involves alot of thinking, and proper movement. More kicks are involved. You find yourself rolling to get into position. You read your opponent. If he's not moving, don't charge him, OR, run towards him, turn on absorb at jump range, and give him a kick for standing there. As the fight progresses you can't always tell when absorb is on, and you can't just keep pulling consistenly or it'll blow your mana. This is where more of the arsenal comes into play. DFA, kick, lunge, basic swing, saber toss. Then when an opponent is off gaurd, you drop them at the right angle. A good player has his options. Alot of the time I don't see the backstab finish. I see a Medium Finisher victory, in order to avoid the dreaded "Stab Back" manuever.

What I'm trying to say is that "Backstabbers", "Assfighters", "Backstab Whores" whatever you wanna call them are fighting in a different style, an art so to speak. They live by a style where getting caught off gaurd means death. When you aproach them, and you aren't ready for that, they've got you...

These people aren't neccasarily going for the quick frag either. Most of the time they're happy to see that one guy who absorbs their push, and obviously is prepared for a good battle.
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Old 05-28-2002, 05:38 AM   #10
hydro[/jedi]
 
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please stop abusing the incredibly unbalanced attack which is going to be nerfed like hell in the next patch. thanks.
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Old 05-28-2002, 06:56 AM   #11
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wait for someone to get close and attack you, then use force pull, turn around and backstab. repeat 999999999 times.

and you call this a difficult technique to pull off? sorry to disappoint you but if i can do this and get tons of kills then IT IS A SKILLESS MOVE.

i dont know, maybe i'm even more of a n00b than the guy running backwards all day, but tell me why this move must be practiced in order for it to be effective?
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Old 05-28-2002, 07:50 AM   #12
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turn on absorb, watch him give you 3 bars of force and saber his outstretched hand. perhaps next time he wont be so eager to lower his defenses when you're in good range for a nice hard saber smack.

but the main problem with this move is people spamming it. running into combat backwards?! i mean wtf is going on here, that's really taking it too far. or when two players have their sabers lowered and are trying to duel, perhaps not noticing the message at the top of their screens about waiting for the current duel to stop, and some idiot backs up into them and sweeps them both to their deaths.

the increasing number of wankers who run around backwards are proof that this move is being spammed. sure, it's easy to counter them when you know they're there, but if you're having an awesome duel with another player (not a private one let's say), and are both on low health, looking for that last edge to win, and 3 newbies spamming backstab at each other manage to destroy the two of you, it gets annoying, and is a huge anticlimax for people who play the game for the 1 on 1 fights.

i agree, a perfectly executed backstab on a moving target requires skill, but running into combat backwards is getting lamer and lamer ...
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Old 05-28-2002, 07:59 AM   #13
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Just like to say that I think both sides of the argument are correct here. It`s generally human nature to stick with a winning tactic; It`s only when you`re consistantly beaten that you have to start thinking about an alternative.
On the other hand, the fact is that a move that`s capable of 340 damage is quite obviously massively overpowered and ought to be re-evaluated in the next patch.
No move should be capable of more than 125 damage, and such a move should be difficult and dangerous to apply.
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Old 05-28-2002, 08:14 AM   #14
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sorry to say, but ppl walking backwards in blue stance aren't even hard to counter.. everybody who can't deal with those ppl.. well... you get the idea..

Pull backstab is a diff story, it's harder to counter, but it can be done.. abrorb for one.. I don't know an effective dark side counter but I'm sure there is one.

Ppl call things cheap they can't deal with. I personally get called cheap a LOT of times because I exploit my opponents weakness. I watch them in duels, and if they can't deal with kick I kick. If they can't deal with backstab I backstab, and if they can't deal with blue lunge I do that etc etc etc. If that's cheap, guess I'm a cheap ass then. This game is about killing your opponent, and in the end the person with the most frags is the winner. Anyone claiming something else is a fool
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Old 05-28-2002, 09:25 AM   #15
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people in blue stance running backwards are easy to counter IF YOU KNOW THEY'RE THERE! i hate it when they just back up into me while im talking to someone

"This game is about killing your opponent, and in the end the person with the most frags is the winner. Anyone claiming something else is a fool"

i'd like to claim something else ... this game is about having fun, and in the end, the people who are still smiling at the end of the map are the winners. anyone claiming anything else is a cs-kiddie cyber-athlete.

i got to the stage where i had perfected the backsweep pretty much, i could hit 75% of moving targets, and everytime when they were down. i got bored, and started dueling with yellow stance, which is way more fun. if someone lightning spams me, or tries to pull/backstab me, or something else that just irritates me, i simply lay the smackdown on em, and keep looking for another duel. if they keep it up after the first "warning", then i'll just kill them on sight, rather than wait for them to be "lame" first.
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Old 05-28-2002, 11:15 AM   #16
Xzzy
 
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> everybody who can't deal with those
> ppl.. well... you get the idea..


The point of this debate isn't that there are no coutners against backstab/slash spammers.

The point is whether or not it's lame to spam the tactic, and whether or not it takes any skill to do it.
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Old 05-28-2002, 11:45 AM   #17
Dea
 
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walking backwards blue stance doesn't take any skill, I agree, but it isn't very effective either.

and big mexican, it doesn't sound like you're having a whole lot of fun. And are you claiming that counterstrike isn't about having fun?
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Old 05-28-2002, 12:09 PM   #18
d3vin
 
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I would never accuse Nolan Ryan of having no skill because he "spammed" fastballs or Micheal Jordan in the later stages of his career for "spamming a crossover followed by a jumpshot"

In competitive activities it is the opponents responsibility to force someone to change their game, not the person "spamming" a move
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Old 05-28-2002, 12:38 PM   #19
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Stop Whining

I think people should stop whining and play the F'ING game. It rocks!


William Olson
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Old 05-28-2002, 12:45 PM   #20
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I think we have to keep in mind the mindset of the bulk of the players out there...

MOST of them are between the ages of 12 and 17, and that is NOT the most mature of age groups.

The other thing that makes me laugh sometimes are those same people who go on and on about their 'skillz'. Granted, this game takes some effort to learn the moves, but after a couple of hours of practice you can pretty much hold your own in a FFA.

Skills sometimes take a lifetime to perfect, and most people who are skilled at something (Michael Jordan, Tiger Woods, Ross Perot) are all willing to admit they have more to learn.

Think to yourself, is a video game aimed at pre-pubescent males REALLY going to require a superior set of skills to master?

I don't think so.

Now the fun part is with those who play this game for hours and hours on end, and really get the moves down, who are then killed repeatedly by people spamming the backstab. Then come the cries of, "That's Lame", "You cheap fag", "Is that all you can do?"

As a slightly older representative of the demographic playing this game (shock, gasp, I'm 29!!!) what I CAN say is that when a particular weapon/move is so easy to learn and perform, and it is unblockable, it will be used and used and used and used. By whom? Those who just want to win, who don't have the patience to try and kill their target another way, and by those who DON'T want to invest hundreds of hours mastering moves that can't beat the one simple one everyone knows.

This move is a problem with the GAME, not the people playing it. I hope it will be corrected in the next patch...assuming there is enough outcry about it.

To that end, here is the email address for Ravensoft:

www@ravensoft.com

Make your feelings known, maybe we can get this corrected.
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Old 05-28-2002, 12:53 PM   #21
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Quote:
i'd like to claim something else ... this game is about having fun, and in the end, the people who are still smiling at the end of the map are the winners. anyone claiming anything else is a cs-kiddie cyber-athlete.
ya....last time i checked the point of EVERY game is to have fun, sure it's nice to win and everybody loves to win....but if you don't have fun what's the point?


Wizard's First Rule: People Are Stupid

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Old 05-28-2002, 12:55 PM   #22
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im sorry that u feel that way about being called names...you f**#@$@%#$$#@%@#%$@%$%T^ $%$# %$#$ *inhale* $#@%% $#% # %$^%^&%$ ^%$^&$%#& !@$#%
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Old 05-28-2002, 01:01 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally posted by da_rat
im sorry that u feel that way about being called names...you f**#@$@%#$$#@%@#%$@%$%T^ $%$# %$#$ *inhale* $#@%% $#% # %$^%^&%$ ^%$^&$%#& !@$#%
Well, well, well.

Mr. Potty-mouth...



(remember to breathe, you gotta remember to breathe)
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Old 05-28-2002, 01:54 PM   #24
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Quote:
THERE IS A COUNTER TO EVERY MOVE IN THIS GAME LEARN. Just because you DON'T know the counter to a backstab doesn't mean its cheap. Learn the game.
Hmmm wel ok. Done that. But the problem is. THE COUNTER AIN'T FUN!!!!! They ruin the whole gameplay cause it forces you to a very limited aspect of the game (the backstab countering). When playing on a duel server and you find someone doing the backstab thing. All normal saber tactics are becoming USELESS! Come on. Just try it. A smart backstabber just waits until you attack and then pulls you on the ground. So attacking the normal way is no option. Well use absorb then n00b. Ok tried that also. But then the smart backstabber will just avoid battle until your out of force and then pulls you on the ground.
Tssss never heard of kicking before? Yes I did. But then most of the times it endes up in a kicking duel, wich is boring. Or you could just be pulled on the ground just when you began your kick animation.
Man I could just go on and on and on about it. Just to make a long story short. THE BACKSTAB COUNTER TACTIS ARE NO FUN AT ALL!!!!! SO THATS WHY STICKING TO BACKSTABBING ONLY SUCKS!

note: backstab in a nf duel is some other story since you can't pull. Kicking is far less worse the pulling.
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Old 05-28-2002, 02:11 PM   #25
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> i'd like to claim something else ... this game is
> about having fun, and in the end, the people who
> are still smiling at the end of the map are the
> winners.

That's not neccessarily true. Put it this way.. who is more skilled, the guy who at the end of 20 minutes has 8 kills and 1 death, or the guy who has 30 kills and 20 deaths?

It's really a shame jk2 doesn't track deaths, because there's been dozens of situations where I spend 20 minutes fending off attackers, dying perhaps once or twice. Sure my kill rate sucks, but for every one or two kills I do get I survive another half dozen fights.

My personal best is holding off four attackers on a saber only ctf for five minutes solid. I scored no kills myself, but then again, I'm the only one that actually survived (some guy with lightning ran through and mowed everyone down, heh).

I've been dead last for frag count many many times and still left the server having had fun.
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Old 05-28-2002, 02:42 PM   #26
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I see a lot of people claiming every move has a counter. That is absolutely wrong. Play as a Merc on a Jedi vs. Merc server. Because Mercs have no force powers, there is NO COUNTER to the pull+backstab/backslash. You can delay the inevitable by jumping around repeatedly, dropping a sentry gun or forcefield, but you will be killed.

Playing as a Merc can be really fun (who doesn't want to put on a Boba Fett-like persona?), but as soon as a pull+backstab/backslash Jedi gets on the server, the funs over. In my experience, these Jedi will focus almost exclusively on the Mercs and repeatedly kill them with this cheap strategy. It makes me sick.
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Old 05-28-2002, 03:02 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally posted by tempest8008
I think we have to keep in mind the mindset of the bulk of the players out there...

MOST of them are between the ages of 12 and 17, and that is NOT the most mature of age groups.

The other thing that makes me laugh sometimes are those same people who go on and on about their 'skillz'. Granted, this game takes some effort to learn the moves, but after a couple of hours of practice you can pretty much hold your own in a FFA.

Skills sometimes take a lifetime to perfect, and most people who are skilled at something (Michael Jordan, Tiger Woods, Ross Perot) are all willing to admit they have more to learn.

Think to yourself, is a video game aimed at pre-pubescent males REALLY going to require a superior set of skills to master?

I don't think so.

Now the fun part is with those who play this game for hours and hours on end, and really get the moves down, who are then killed repeatedly by people spamming the backstab. Then come the cries of, "That's Lame", "You cheap fag", "Is that all you can do?"

As a slightly older representative of the demographic playing this game (shock, gasp, I'm 29!!!) what I CAN say is that when a particular weapon/move is so easy to learn and perform, and it is unblockable, it will be used and used and used and used. By whom? Those who just want to win, who don't have the patience to try and kill their target another way, and by those who DON'T want to invest hundreds of hours mastering moves that can't beat the one simple one everyone knows.

This move is a problem with the GAME, not the people playing it. I hope it will be corrected in the next patch...assuming there is enough outcry about it.

To that end, here is the email address for Ravensoft:

www@ravensoft.com

Make your feelings known, maybe we can get this corrected.
LMAO

So true... but I'm not going to delve into depths of adolescent psychology...

The game for the most part has become idiotic.... which has inspired me to write:

"ThingAhMajig's Complete Idiots Guide to Cheap Sabering"

an Excerpt from it:

Are you tired of being Owned?

You know you are the GREATEST Jedi this side of the Galaxy...

But how do you convince the rest of the world?

If only other ppl would see how great you are...

But certain Genetic imperfections is hindering your Game...

Your Father is your Uncle...

You just suck...

You've read Artifex's guide to sabering, but who can be bothered with time and practice?

Fear not, I'll show you certain key elements that will elevate you to a status of a God, in no time at ALL!!!!

Learn to SPAM moves Ad Nauseum to maximize your frag count...
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Old 05-28-2002, 03:31 PM   #28
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Artifex's guide to sabering

where do you find that?? My saber skills where ok in the old ver. of Jedi...I am now having problems landing some of the more simple moves. In the old version i could do the RED jump kill (I did not use it very offten), I have not been able to do that since the upgrade. I know you can do it...cause I have seen it done, but I can't seem to get it to swing right any more. So if the "Artifex's guide to sabering" realy does exist where is it??
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Old 05-28-2002, 04:55 PM   #29
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Backstab isnt as UBER as people think...

It's pretty hard to master the timing... and you can get out of the way of it. You pretty much have to hit it DIRECTLY ON to get the MAX damage. Just roll out of the way, use force protect, push, whatever...

I find duels between 2 people who have mastered the backstab/sweep combo fun... I had a ten minute duel with one the other day... it's all about waiting for the perfect time to unleash it... managing your force power so you dont fall.

It's not as UBER as people think
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Old 05-28-2002, 07:37 PM   #30
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This is what I have to say. I don't do backstab i like the back swing more. But Anyone can do thease they are not hard to learn. It is part of the game and If you can't hang with it then there are other servers.

Now back stabing takes no skill just luck if you are running back and hopping you get someone.

The Back Swing is takes more skill then the back stab.

But anyway what i don't like is those dang Snipers, and bombs

If you are going to fight then don't be like 20 miles away to kill grab your nads and fight. I will take any gun on with my saber anyday.

And for those nothing but pushers on streets now that is no skill. Stop complaning about backstabbers and start with nothing but pushers.

But like i allways do. I get pushed off then guess what they are comming with me And i get more flam from pulling someone off with me when i get pushed then anything Now tell me why?
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Old 05-28-2002, 09:50 PM   #31
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Ok I can understand the merc vs jedi servers. But I should've applied this post to one thing only. I play exclusively on sabre only servers. Sabre only, FF, or NF, doesn't matter I never play on gun servers. So gun strategies, merc vs jedi strategies don't apply to my posts. And btw YES this post is about counters to backstabbing. Whether there are counters to backstabbers directly correlates to whether it is a cheap move or not. Cheap to me implies I know its coming and there is NOTHING I can do to stop it.

As for stopping backstabbers with absorb. You always put max pull and push as your force powers. Stay more then about 1.5 body lengths away and its not possible to pull or push you down even if you are moving without absorb on. But then again you have skill, so you would know this. Only turn on absorb if you plan on rushing. If I know a backstab is coming I'm guaranteed either a kick that knocks down or at least a kick that does 20 damage. Kick that knocks down is free backstab death.

As for those that say I have no skill because I don't change my fighting style, again lemme ask, if you don't have enough skill to stop my backstab......why should I stop? It is your choice to not fight to the best of your abilities, I choose to fight with mine.

Lastly, you say this game is for adoloscents gaming takes no skill etc.. etc... etc... Just take a look at the game Street Fighter. I'm not going to drop any names for those heavily into the Street Fighter Community, but I am rather well known. I am a tournament calibur player. I know the name of anyone and everyone that can beat me in the nation. You say it takes no skill because you choose to limit yourself.

(P.S) For those trying to live out sabre duels the way they are in the movies.......go wait for Star Wars Galaxies. It's not gonna happen in a fast paced game like this.


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Old 05-28-2002, 10:05 PM   #32
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This response is only regarding PULL/BACKSLASH on Dueling servers:

I don't think it takes no skill. I am not one of the experts at it, I am probably better at it then most medium skill level players, but there are those that are amazing with it. It isn't cheap and I don't blame anyone that does use it, even before when I refused to use it, I didn't consider it cheap, beause to be effective with it does require skill. I do think that against a skilled user of it (which is probably 5% or less of those that use it) there is no defense...yes I know all the counters, and have trained others in them..so don't bother explaing them to me...they WILL not work against the expert pull/backslashers...save one....use it yourself. You will die, but it is worth while to try to learn from it....so all those calling it cheap, don't blame the players, blame Raven...those that are mastering the other skills will be much further ahead of most of the pull/slash experts if they ever release the fix....be patient and try it yourself...that's my view.

- Vorax


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Old 05-28-2002, 11:43 PM   #33
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Dak, I was replying to the thread originator, not you.
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Old 05-29-2002, 12:08 AM   #34
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Sorry Aerys, it takes skill to fight someone else that can do it too. You kill me once with force pull, backstab, I'll remember your name. And guess what? Next time, I'm gonna absorb, run up and kick you down...then what're you gonna do. You gonna stand there and try and counter kick? Well maybe I just might yellow sabre finisher you this time? Maybe I'll just run up and backstab you while you're sticking your hand out in the force pul animation. Maybe I'll blue lunge, maybe I'll dfa? Once again, I will reiterate.

Running around in blue style backwards and holding down the button is stupid. If they win on a server like that, the other people must be playing the game for the first time. I laugh when I see people do that. It's worse then being a n00b. It's a wannabe. I'm just saying....don't knock backstab until you've done it yourself in a 1on1 duel against another bs'er. SOOO many other moves come into play.


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Old 05-29-2002, 01:27 AM   #35
Aerys
 
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Yoojin, I think we are in violent agreement.

Move spamming is lame.

Backstab/slash is overpowered.

Its a good move when done correctly and not spammed.

It can be defended against but like the old DFA, spammers are going to kill 3-4 people in groups because its overpowered.

That's all I have to say.
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Old 05-29-2002, 03:10 AM   #36
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Vorax, Aerys and Yoojin have all valid points... I dont think anybody is in disagreement, but just a difference in looking at the same problem.

BTW, my last post was a joke... (for those ppl brain-dead in this forum)

Whats the usual crap we see in FFA servers? There are several factors:

1. The mosh Pit
2. In the mosh pit, we have 4 classes of players:
a) DFA spammer
b) Lighting spammer
c) Backslash/stab spammer
d) Poor sod caught in the furball.
3. Interesting enough all these ppl take turns from DFA spamming, backslash/stab and being a casualty. It seems that Lighting Spammers will always be just that.

I think we are in total agreement that this is just pathetic. But the sad truth is that who gets the most frags wins. Jumping into a situation like this will case your untimely demise.

You can 1, avoid... 2 use smart tactics to get the most frags in such a situation. etc...etc...etc...

But who are the whiners? They comprise 99% of the saber spammers. Noobs, idiots and most likely the Lighting Spammers sitting on the corner edge trying to rack up kills.

These noobs are in their own minds, godís gift to this game... if they kill you, its pure skills and if you kill them no matter how you do it... its just cheap. You cant win...

I look at it in simple terms.

If sodomising demons from the 12th dimension attacked your house, and you have a choice of weapons:

a) the BFG10000
b) butter knife.

Which one would you choose?

No one rewards you for being an idiot... but perhaps Vorax can do more damage with a butter knife then with a BFG... well itís his choice. Perhaps the noob can get some kills with lighting... well itís his choice. I donít complain, I get even, and you will see me coming with a BFG.

Given any move, it can be cheap... but for whom? The winner? hmmm he/she wonít loose any sleep... Itís always the victim, and keep in mind they have illusions of self grandeur... an IQ of room temperature along with an inversely proportional ego.

Yoojin, ignore them...
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Old 05-29-2002, 03:21 AM   #37
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> if they kill you, its pure skills and if you
> kill them no matter how you do it... its
> just cheap.

No, the problem comes from dying half a dozen times to the same person, who's using the SAME attack they did the previous times.

Sorry I don't respect that at all. That's not skill, it's just mindless repetition.

Only difference between a noob and a spammer is that the spammer has learned a more efficient attack to constantly repeat.
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Old 05-29-2002, 03:24 AM   #38
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I used to have a geat time playing this game. Then this whole spamming the forcepull/finishing moves thing started. Now about 80% of the players in any server I join, spam this move. It is frustrating and boring. I play mainly CTF with 16 or more players. Yes, you can avoid this move. I've succesfully pulled this off and killed the spammer. Then I walk around the corner, and bam, there's another and another. Just to find out that I wasn't imagining things, I started spectating. Sure enough, that's all these people do. They just run to the nearest enemy and force pull and strike, then to the next enemy, on and on and on and on, again!!!! Sure, I guess they can call it strategy. It's a shame they can't do anything else.


For those whom keeping posting to defend this move and say it is a skill...try something else, and let's see if you're actually any good in this game.
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Old 05-29-2002, 04:04 AM   #39
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Im with intoxictd

I just got finished playing on my server with 20+ people and all the little gayfurs where perched and waiting to backstab i can handle 2 maybe three but when these lamers are camping to backstab the game goes no where....

Sure im a noob but not a bad one either. This may be great for duels where there are only 2 but CTF where there are 20+ thats lame. Lets see how you handle it when you run that gay ass gauntlet! Take it out of CTF it doesnt belong there. If not that give me a server setting for my dedicated Linux server sitting on an OC3.

-skeep


-skeep
mmm yeah this is my sig!
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Old 05-29-2002, 04:11 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally posted by Xzzy
> if they kill you, its pure skills and if you
> kill them no matter how you do it... its
> just cheap.

No, the problem comes from dying half a dozen times to the same person, who's using the SAME attack they did the previous times.

Sorry I don't respect that at all. That's not skill, it's just mindless repetition.
True, it's frusturating to you. However it's smart of them to an exploit a weakness you have. It may appear that's all they can do, but untill someone steps up you'll never know. Please don't say there aren't any counters. If that's the case why are good "backstabers" having great, long, smart fights against eachother? They learn all the moves inside out. Learning takes time at many levels. You cannot just say you know the counters, you need to know how to utilize them. It seems this discussion is now going into a whirling cycle.
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