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Old 05-28-2002, 04:37 PM   #1
FEAR_IS_MY_ALLY
 
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Did you see JANGO bump his head?????

It was thrown in there as a joke I'm pretty sure.

In Episode IV, there is a scene where a Stormtrooper bumps his head on a door as he is walking in........I've seen Episode IV a gazillion times and I never noticed it until a friend of mine pointed it out to me. It's hilarious.

In the recently released Episode II, as Jango is climbing aboard Slave 1.....he bumps his head on the door. lol!!

Being as how Jango is the original copy of all the clones I assume this was thrown in to explain the clumsyness of the Stormtrooper in Episode IV.
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Old 05-28-2002, 06:17 PM   #2
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The stormtroopers from the original trilogy weren't clones.


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Old 05-28-2002, 06:44 PM   #3
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what ! you went over my helmet!


no no , not that.


rofl..
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Old 05-28-2002, 08:29 PM   #4
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Are you sure about that?

How else is the empire suddenly equiped with all those Stormtroopers?

I can think of no other reason why Jango would have bumped his head like that......that scene in the movie was CG......do it was definently deliberate.
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Old 05-28-2002, 09:11 PM   #5
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when Star Wars originally came out the Stormtroopers were clones- Ive even got literature to prove this from 1977.

Lucas now appears to have changed this- probably in order to explain why Stormtroopers are not so good in the OT.

Unfortunately apart from the UT (which isnt Canon remember?) there is no reference to whether stormtroopers are clones or not.

Those around in 1977 and old enough to remember it like myself will know they were originally clones.
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Old 05-29-2002, 01:56 AM   #6
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LOL! Yes, I caught that my third time seeing AotC! And you can distinctly hear it "clunk" too!
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Old 05-29-2002, 02:43 AM   #7
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I did see that, but thought it to be just a trick my mind was playing on me. I destinctly remember it from E VI. I figured my mind was adding things that weren't there.
(This isn't proof that it isn't, mind you) Thx for comfirming the little sanity I have left


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Old 05-29-2002, 02:48 AM   #8
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The stormtrooper officers certainly weren't clones, since they looked different.

They sucked in the Death Star and Cloud City because Vader told them to suck..,he wanted them to escape.

I don't know why they sucked on Endor's moon (overconfidence?) but they weren't clones there. We see the commanders' faces, remember?


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Old 05-29-2002, 03:53 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by Redwing
The stormtrooper officers certainly weren't clones, since they looked different.

They sucked in the Death Star and Cloud City because Vader told them to suck..,he wanted them to escape.

I don't know why they sucked on Endor's moon (overconfidence?) but they weren't clones there. We see the commanders' faces, remember?


You're talking about the Imperial officers. no they are not clones. The stormtroopers, the guys in the EGGSHELL SUITS, are all clones. That was revealed before.
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Old 06-01-2002, 02:55 AM   #10
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Stormtroopers Clones? As far as I know they are voulenteers. Why do they have differnt voices?Different hights?Some seem to be smarter? Mostly I get the idea they are voulenteers because I played Force Commander, if u have u know what im talkin about.
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Old 06-01-2002, 04:15 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally posted by Exar Kun II




You're talking about the Imperial officers. no they are not clones. The stormtroopers, the guys in the EGGSHELL SUITS, are all clones. That was revealed before.
No, it wasn't. It hasn't even been clearly stated now.

I mean, they call the clones "clonetroopers". They call the OT guys "stormtroopers". Why change the name for no reason?


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Old 06-01-2002, 01:12 PM   #12
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Why do they have the same outfits the stormtroopers? That's what I don't get- the only difference is the black stripe thingie on the helmet looked more pointy in AOTC.

My brother brought up a point that perhaps a 2nd batch of clones were made sometime down the future? Possibly with a different host (obvisouly since Jango is dead)


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Old 06-01-2002, 01:46 PM   #13
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I don't think that Jango bumbs his head - I could clearly see that he was just ducking his head, and it didn't connect with the door.

I think people see what they want to see...
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Old 06-01-2002, 10:53 PM   #14
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Originally posted by Mandalorian iTi
Stormtroopers Clones? As far as I know they are voulenteers. Why do they have differnt voices?Different hights?Some seem to be smarter? Mostly I get the idea they are voulenteers because I played Force Commander, if u have u know what im talkin about.
maybe the cloning screwed up


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Old 06-02-2002, 12:51 AM   #15
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Icought the blooper too, I just didnt want to make myself seem foolish to everyone who didnt see it.


And if the stromtroopers in the moovie arnt Clones, how come they all sound the same?




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Old 06-02-2002, 01:14 AM   #16
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Err...Why not just say some Stormtroopers are clones, but they began recruiting as well? Why pay to make clones if you could get people to sign up?

Also, Leia's statement "Aren't you a little short for a stormtrooper?". Why would she say that if all Stormies were different heights?
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Old 06-02-2002, 01:39 AM   #17
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I think that Jango definitely bumbs his head on the door. I've found three instances of people bumping their heads in the Star Wars movies and I think Lucas has an inside joke running. You got Jango in Ep II, the stormtrooper in Ep IV, and Leia in Ep VI. Look again. When she goes to rescue Han in ROTJ she's sneaking around Jabba's Palace and she bumps her head on some chimes or something. I've yet to find one in Ep V or I. I dont have Ep I, so I cant look. I'm gonna watch Ep V tonight to look again. I just caught Leia's head bump yesterday. I was hoping someone could look for me in Ep I.

As for the stormtroopers, they are not clones. My friend has a poster on his wall that says "join up and see the galaxy" or something like that. It has pictures of stormtroopers and imperial ships on it. This poster is circa 1978. What "academy" do you think Luke wants to join in Ep IV. Think about it, the stormtroopers suck ass in the original trilogy. The clonetroopers are a lot better. Plus Ep III is about a clone WAR. War means death. How can there be enough clones to supply the Empire through three more movies after the war. Plus the armor looks all wrong. The clonetroopers look like Mandolorians. The stormtroopers look... well not like Mandolorians. And if they were clones why not call them clonetroopers like in Ep II? They have to be conscripts or volunteers. As for Leia's comment the Luke is too short to be a stormtrooper I guess there has to be minimun physical requiremnts to be in the imperial ARMY.
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Old 06-02-2002, 04:14 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally posted by cjais
I don't think that Jango bumbs his head - I could clearly see that he was just ducking his head, and it didn't connect with the door.

I think people see what they want to see...
No, Lucasfilm said in one of their Newsletters that it was actually in there as a little easter egg for fans.


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Old 06-02-2002, 10:30 AM   #19
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Originally posted by Woad


No, Lucasfilm said in one of their Newsletters that it was actually in there as a little easter egg for fans.
I stand corrected.
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Old 06-03-2002, 12:53 PM   #20
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Originally posted by Nebelwerfer_
The stormtroopers from the original trilogy weren't clones.
Okay, so much to post...

First to say Stromtroopers are not clones based on books is like saying Boba Fett is named Jaster Mereel and used to be an imperial journeyman, um... not anymore! So, books are not canon and are obviously subject to being changed and/or refuted.

Secondly, the accent thing. Sure Clones of Jango are going to have an accent, but Jango's dead. The next "template" for the clones may not have an accent. Something to think about...

Then, who would have outlawed clones after the war? Well, it's kinda obvious... that's right... Palpatine. Now tell me that makes sense. Palpatine is going to eliminate his source of a fast and extremely loyal army right when he's about to rock the boat by declaring himself Emperor. I don't think so! Maybe he would make it illegal for other people to be making clones, but do you honestly think that this purely evil man who uses clones as the backbone of his rise to power is going to stop using them because people don't like them? right...

Yes, Leia says to Luke in the detention area "Aren't you a little short for a stormtrooper?" This implies that Stormtroopers are a set height. But this is not damning evidence, just a little help that's all

But here's another food for thought:
In Episode 4: A New Hope the Imperial officer on the Death Star called for teh Stormtrooper who was ambushed by Luke, Chewie, Obiwan and Han on the Falcon. Remember what he called him? That's right TK421, a serial number. That's all clones are: numbers. If they were conscripts , then why not call them private smith or trooper smith. We already see the definate conscripts (The Generals, Admirals, and officers) being referred to by name, not number. i.e. General Veers, Admiral Needa, Captain Piet. Are you telling me they started out as numbers and then get names? That doesn't work so well.

Also, As far as being to old and dying too fast. They were accelerated to full maturity, but then are allowed to grow at normal rate. They don't continue to grow at an accelerated rate after they mature. They need an army fast, not a bunch of kids. But what would be the point of making an army that grows to old to use in a matter of 10 years! Look at Boba, he was taken off the accelerated growth at a youg age, he ages normal now. The Clonetroopers are taken off it at around the age 18-25, then grow at normal rate. Clones don't just age that way because they are clones. They are injected/fed/etc something that allows them to grow faster, but then grow at normal rate when that stimulant is not used anymore. Otherwise Boba would have been ancient by Episode 4-6.

The idea that Stormtroopers are a mix of clones and conscripts is certainly viable. But to say that stormtroopers are not clones at this point, is a bit rash and basically throwing out logic in favor of saving your EU stories being shattered and rendered moot.

Clonetroopers are the Republic army, but when Palpatine becomes Emperor, he makes some changes. The armor will change and he'll call them Stormtroopers for a fear factor and most importantly, to signify taht the Old Republic is truly dead. The clones are led and commanded by conscripts, the officers, Admirals, Captains, and Generals.

Republic-> Clonetroopers
Empire-> Stormtroopers

Same thing!


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Old 06-03-2002, 01:12 PM   #21
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Nicely put Havoc.

About the accent thing: Accents are not inherited even if your a clone. Accents come about with how your raised to speak and pronounce words. It has nothing to do with the dna or genes.


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Old 06-03-2002, 01:57 PM   #22
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Originally posted by MotionMan

About the accent thing: Accents are not inherited even if your a clone. Accents come about with how your raised to speak and pronounce words. It has nothing to do with the dna or genes.
Absolutely! I already knew this, but I was using my somewhat "flawed" explanation for the sake of arguement!

Scientifically, as you pointed out, Accents mean nothing and have nothing to do with the cloning process and/or genetics. Of course, that would render some peoples arguments completely moot, and it's not nice to pull the carpet out from underneath someone's soapbox! (But who said we have to be nice )

Thank You Motion Man, for adding even more evidence in the Stormtroopers are clones arguement.


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Old 06-03-2002, 02:11 PM   #23
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No problem man


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Old 06-03-2002, 03:42 PM   #24
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On the subject of accents, I noticed on my third viewing of AotC that Boba Fett doesn't really have an accent (at least not as distinct a one as his father).

Anyway, it seems, from comments made in The Art of Episode II, that Boba Fett was originally going to be the source of the clones until Lucas decided that it would make him too old in the OT--that's why he invented Jango Fett, Boba's father. Now, since Jango is dead and Boba is a completely unaltered clone, do you think that maybe Boba will find his way back to Kamino and there become the template for the Next Generation Clones?
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Old 06-03-2002, 03:47 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jedi_Monk
On the subject of accents, I noticed on my third viewing of AotC that Boba Fett doesn't really have an accent (at least not as distinct a one as his father).

do you think that maybe Boba will find his way back to Kamino and there become the template for the Next Generation Clones?
Next generation of clones?


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Old 07-02-2002, 03:07 AM   #26
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but i still say stormtroopers are NOT all clones, it is mostly volenteers, i have to admitt that there are clones but not most of them, believe me.



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Old 07-02-2002, 07:32 AM   #27
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Sure we'll believe you........as long as you can prove that you have direct access to George Lucas' thoughts! In the Star Wars newsletter that i recieve from starwars.com they had a list of easter eggs. They mentioned the Jango Fett hitting his head, but this is how it was put.

Quote:
It appears that Fett Genes and low ceilings don't mix. In homage to a OT blooper where a stormtrooper bumps his head in ANH, Jango Clanks his against the closing door of Slave 1.
Now the implication in this letter is that the troopers in ANH had the same genes as the Fetts, doesn't it?
And they wouldn't need Jango around to make clones, really. They have the clones they made of Jango, those clones have the exact same genetic structure as Jango does, so they could simply clone them.

Edit - And for those who's argument is that the clones are expensive and maintaining an army of them is too expensive. This is the empire that Build 2 deathstars on a whim. They build thousands and thousands of TIE Fighters, and TIE's dont last very long in battle....so maintaining those has to be extremely costly...they have more money than they even know what to do with, paying for clones is a minor thing



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Old 07-02-2002, 08:45 AM   #28
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like i said u ate Kalmino, is that how u spell it, so how can they make more clones the place where they origin from is gone ha



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Old 07-02-2002, 02:02 PM   #29
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It's spelled Kamino.......but i'm really not sure where you're going with that post......



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Old 07-03-2002, 04:22 AM   #30
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If they wanted more Jango Fett clones, they wouldn't need him or a clonetrooper to make them. Frozen samples of DNA can be kept for a long time.

Quote:
Also, As far as being to old and dying too fast. They were accelerated to full maturity, but then are allowed to grow at normal rate. They don't continue to grow at an accelerated rate after they mature. They need an army fast, not a bunch of kids. But what would be the point of making an army that grows to old to use in a matter of 10 years! Look at Boba, he was taken off the accelerated growth at a youg age, he ages normal now. The Clonetroopers are taken off it at around the age 18-25, then grow at normal rate. Clones don't just age that way because they are clones. They are injected/fed/etc something that allows them to grow faster, but then grow at normal rate when that stimulant is not used anymore. Otherwise Boba would have been ancient by Episode 4-6.
I agree with you that stormtroopers are probably clones, but I just wanted to point out that Boba never had his growth accelerated. Boba had none of the modifications that were done to the clonetroopers.
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Old 07-03-2002, 04:46 AM   #31
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There are *many* stormtroopers. Somehow I doubt that they are all recruits. Still, there is no mention of cloning in OT, which is why I'm guessing that somehow Kamino and or all cloning facilities are destroyed by the jedi or rebels in EP3 as an attempt to cripple Sidious's hold on the galaxy.
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Old 07-04-2002, 03:08 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally posted by joker828

The clonetroopers look like Mandolorians. The stormtroopers look... well not like Mandolorians.
Actually, IMO the Clonetrooper armor is sort of bridging the gap between Mandalorian and Stormtrooper armour. I think it looks excelent.

+ =


As for the topic of stormtroopers being clones, I would say yes and no. Some are most likely clones, while others are definately recruits.
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Old 07-04-2002, 06:51 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally posted by Havoc Stryphe


Also, As far as being to old and dying too fast. They were accelerated to full maturity, but then are allowed to grow at normal rate. They don't continue to grow at an accelerated rate after they mature. They need an army fast, not a bunch of kids. But what would be the point of making an army that grows to old to use in a matter of 10 years! Look at Boba, he was taken off the accelerated growth at a youg age, he ages normal now. The Clonetroopers are taken off it at around the age 18-25, then grow at normal rate. Clones don't just age that way because they are clones. They are injected/fed/etc something that allows them to grow faster, but then grow at normal rate when that stimulant is not used anymore. Otherwise Boba would have been ancient by Episode 4-6.


I still don't believe that the growth acceleration is something that is fed/injected into them. I think it is a genetic change and the clones will always grow at that accelerated rate, i could be wrong, but that's what i think. 10 years is a pretty long time if you look at how long those troopers probably live....first off we have the war that is only going to last 3-4 years, and most if not all of the first batch will die. Then in the OT we see more than a dozen troopers that are taken out by Han, Luke, Chewie, and Leia, suggesting that Stormtroopers never last long in battle. It's also possible that they leave the stormtroopers active until they die, no matter how old they are. This explains their poor performance. They have crippling arthritis in their fingers and cannot hold the guns properly.

And as it was alreayd mentioned Boba had no growth acceleeration atall.

LamaSu: "Apart from his pay, which is considerable, Fett demanded only one thing, and unaltered clone for himself."
Obi-Wan: "Unaltered?"
LamaSu: "No tampering with the genetic structure to make it more docile, and NO growth acceleration. interesting, isn't it?"



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Old 07-07-2002, 09:27 PM   #34
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After the fall of the republic senator Palpatine has complete controll of the republic army. After years of conflict he realises that the imperial army is beginning to decrease in man power. Due to this he starts recruiting planetry scum as the new troops but brainwashes them.( I learnt that bit from the jedi academy book trilogy in which Kyp Durron goes to save his brother who joined up and he was brainwashed untill he took off his helmet) After years of fighting and the demise of the Imperial leaders the New Republic start to wipe out the last of the imperials. Alas we end this pitifull story but we will no doubt continue the saga in books and possibly more films.
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Old 07-08-2002, 01:02 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally posted by FunkyFergy
Due to this he starts recruiting planetry scum as the new troops but brainwashes them.( I learnt that bit from the jedi academy book trilogy in which Kyp Durron goes to save his brother who joined up and he was brainwashed untill he took off his helmet) After years of fighting and the demise of the Imperial leaders the New Republic start to wipe out the last of the imperials. Alas we end this pitifull story but we will no doubt continue the saga in books and possibly more films.
Well, i suppose my thread was a waste of time............

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Old 07-10-2002, 04:26 AM   #36
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Like someone else said, a government with the resources to construct two moon-sized battlestations has the resources to maintain a clone army. Unless Kamino is destroyed in SW3, I can't see Stormtroopers being anything but clones.

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Old 07-10-2002, 04:49 AM   #37
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How about this:

Different people offer themselves to be cloned. Thus the storm troopers. Rarley, there is the case of a Jango clone. Maybe in episode V When Baba Fett gets Hans, he bumps his head eh?If we wait for episode 3 it might be clear.


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