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Old 05-31-2002, 01:42 PM   #1
Dark Begger
 
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For all you who tell us to stop complaining..

ahem...for all of you who tell us to stop complaining..*cough*Vader*cough* let me ask you something.

In 1.02, people complained.

DFA is too strong...
Heavy is too strong...
force powers are unbalanced..blah blah...

and Raven answered with 1.03

DFA is nerfed...
Heavy (well all saber combat..) is toned down..
force powers were screwed over...in efforts to make you guys happy.

SO, guess what? We want it back like 1.02. Therefore, learning from you guys who are ever so good and smart, we will complain so we will get some changes BACK. It's a sad fact taht this has to happen, but that's how it goes. sorry.
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Old 05-31-2002, 02:01 PM   #2
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your life is pathetic dude,

-Wolf


I sense you...Jedi!!!
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Old 05-31-2002, 02:05 PM   #3
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taht's me..with a pathetic life...oh well, maybe with this pathetic life, I can get some changes back, and some more people will be happy. I would end up taking no recognition for it, although it was my complaining that made it happen, but the satisfaction of watching the game get better would pay off my no lifeness.
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Old 05-31-2002, 02:17 PM   #4
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true, more power to you..its good to have a cause

-Wolf


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Old 05-31-2002, 02:19 PM   #5
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Old 05-31-2002, 02:20 PM   #6
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thanks for your support (whether it was sarcastic or not), I will try my best to get changes done. lol
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Old 05-31-2002, 04:11 PM   #7
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just learn to use 1.03 a little better.
loads screamed about how ****e 1.02 was so they changed it. now you want it back. WHAT EXACTLY DO YOU WANT!

ok, the backstab thing is a joke i will admit that. it always makes me laugh when i see someones arse comming for me with the saber wildly swinging, but its so easy to get around and i always have the last laugh when they get my saber right up their ring.
SteelFury.
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Old 05-31-2002, 04:14 PM   #8
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actually, I loved 1.02, I thought it was great, and very balanced. That's why I'm angered by 1.03. lol
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Old 05-31-2002, 04:43 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by Silent Wolf
your life is pathetic dude,

-Wolf
agree.

to paraphrase "this thread is pathetic dude"



what people never understand is that if you dont like 1.03: DONT PLAY THE DAMN THING!!!

no one is forcing you to use it....

"We want it back like 1.02."

do you have any idea how stupid that sounds? go and PLAY 1.02 then....

btw this is the 85003rd post is the valley... cant type fast engough for 85000
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Old 05-31-2002, 05:08 PM   #10
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Old 05-31-2002, 05:09 PM   #11
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hmm..well then how come you didn't say the same thing during 1.02, when people were complaining about that? Why didn't you tell them to 'stop playing if they don't like it'. fact is when people want to complain, its okay, but when they see it and don't want the change to happen they deny it and tell everyone else to stop complaining. I'm sorry, this thread may be pathetic but all of the complaint threads asking for more of a 1.02 feel are not. Because as Raven did for 1.02, they listened to these whining threads and made 1.03. So I feel that I will complain to get it back. You can think what you want, if you don't like me complaining, don't come to these forums.
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Old 05-31-2002, 05:10 PM   #12
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Can anyone play this game without whining? I really wonder sometimes.

Maybe if Raven just put a big fat "win" button on your screen and when you press it... you win! Maybe that would make everyone happy.

Or maybe instead, Pacifist Jedi Outcast! No force powers, no guns, no lightsabres, no kick... just people walking around, jumping, and talking.

Sounds like fun to me.
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Old 05-31-2002, 05:11 PM   #13
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I'm glad the man with a spoon, with his wise witicisms before directed at me was able to put a meaningless gif on the forum. good job, I see now that instead of talking about the facts at hand you wasted half of your posts on pointless and obviously personal attacking posts like that. good job. no really. good job.
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Old 05-31-2002, 05:14 PM   #14
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simeon, I am on your side, but if I don't whine, then Raven will continue to cater to those who want everything taken out and reduce the game to a stare off where no moves can be pulled off since everyone complained about every move.

1.03 was a step towards limiting saber combat, and now they want to take out the specials. Ok, so no more backstab/sweep...great...next what's going to happen? people swing too fast? should they take light out next? Heavy too strong? so heavy is taken out now? aawww..complaining about medium now? take that out??

This topic though, was addressed in my sarcastic thread named: Big Mod suggestion!

It's quite funny, you should look back a page or two and take a look.
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Old 05-31-2002, 05:19 PM   #15
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I am fed up posting facts, they are ignored and trampled over by people with loud mouths.
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Old 05-31-2002, 05:22 PM   #16
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I post facts and they are rarely ignored. I never made a personal attack at you on this post, and yet you thrive on attacking me. Maybe if you did not make your factual posts sound so hostile, that everyone would consider your facts and response calmly. The only reason I see to flame is if I am being attacked. Please Agen, if you're bored with posting useful information..then don't come and post.
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Old 05-31-2002, 05:30 PM   #17
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I am not attacking u at all, i'm saying it's a useless thread and that's what i think of it, There's a bout 5 threads with this sort of stuff in it.
And the same could go to you, if you don't like 1.03 then stop playing it.
Also i post facts where there is no big thread with lots of people pouring through who do not know what they are talking about and as soon as their opinion is challenged will post false information jsut to make their point sound better.
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Old 05-31-2002, 05:37 PM   #18
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The thing about the post you just made is that it makes you sound like you KNOW you're always right. I find that it is hard for you to handle any criticism about your facts. There are no other posts stating the reason why we won't stop complaining, when you find one, tell me. Many on actual COMPLAINING about 1.03 or 1.02..but none on WHY. So I don't see those 5 other threads. please show me.

And how do you know people do not know what they are talking about? I guess you are referring to my pull/backstab arguement I had with you? Well I don't know if you are playing a different game or if one of us is lagging, but I never get pulled down if I am a distance outside of an outstretched saber. I don't see how you get pulled down, because I never do, ArtifeX's guide also, states that pull doesn't pull down unless you're closer then saber length, and I thought that was already known? Maybe you are getting pull-kicked down and you think it's just pull? I don't know, but my information is not false, and i do not see how your information has ANY priority or more truth than MY information. I don't see how you can brand some piece of information false when your information could be just AS FALSE.
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Old 05-31-2002, 05:37 PM   #19
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Dark Begger-

The next time you're done pooing in the toilet, turn around and tell what's in there that the patch sucks...

It's about the only thing in this world that cares, and it'll probably listen very well...

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Old 05-31-2002, 05:39 PM   #20
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Old 05-31-2002, 05:43 PM   #21
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actually, Raven seemed to care what people had to complain about in 1.02, so I have no reason to believe that they will NOT care for complaints about 1.03.

Give em another month, if they don't change things, then I guess you've proved me wrong, but for now, please don't make snide remarks like that.
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Old 05-31-2002, 05:54 PM   #22
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Believe me, 1.03 is very far from perfect, i jsut find whining stupid, whing more than people already have is just a waste of space on a forum that is already overloaded.
If people you (not you personally)do not have any constructive suggestions or ideas to make it better you are merely wasting your time time.

I've never mentioned pull either and my info is not false, also i never said anything about your info. People who are replying to this are either your are dead right or u suck or something similar. i did not say you make stuff up. i wasn't talknig about this thread, And when i said stupid thread, it's stupid because all the people make it stupid. You may mean to make a point but other people are going to talk gibberish. That's why it's a waste of time with these thread, all people do is turn threads into a who has the best smart remark.
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Old 05-31-2002, 06:02 PM   #23
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Post This is funny

You people are jumping all down Beggers throat because he likes the game as it was!! Who are you idiots to tell him what he can or should want! Fact is he's right v1.03 is garbage.

Ask Artifex what he thinks of the fighting in v1.03? Oh thats right he retired because he said the fighting was dull!!!

You people can go back and enjoy v1.03 for as long as you have it. Hopefully it won't be too much longer.

Relying on slow speeds, magic blocking, and weak hits to survive is pathetic.
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Old 05-31-2002, 06:04 PM   #24
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Ah,

Ignorance has spoken ladies and gentlemen.
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Old 05-31-2002, 06:07 PM   #25
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now now..don't go flaming them up..thansk for the support, but it doesn't help to yell at people, because they will just yell back. And as for Agen, Im' sorry..I just remember getting in a small arguement in the past with you..and thought it was the pull/backstab thing..guess it was someone else who i was fighting with...anyways..I thought all the comments you made were directed at my one post, that's why I got defensive. Sorry for the misunderstanding.
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Old 05-31-2002, 06:12 PM   #26
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It was spider al who you were arguing about with the pull.
Also Artifex was has "retired" (lol) because he bored himself with his pull backstab move. So really he can only blame himself.
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Old 05-31-2002, 06:36 PM   #27
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Post LOL

Quote:
Originally posted by JediMasterBater
Ah,

Ignorance has spoken ladies and gentlemen.

This from a person who uses 5th grade bathroom humor and names himself after his favorite (only) weekend activity other then computer games. LOL

Keep up the good work buddy!! LOL
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Old 05-31-2002, 06:42 PM   #28
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He actually had a point for once.
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Old 05-31-2002, 06:46 PM   #29
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Question Blame himself?

Quote:
Originally posted by Agen_Terminator
It was spider al who you were arguing about with the pull.
Also Artifex was has "retired" (lol) because he bored himself with his pull backstab move. So really he can only blame himself.

You want him to blame himself?

He found a way to be a better fighter than everyone else. Its not his fault that the game allows and even demads that you use strategies like this to win.

if you want to blame something then place it right on the v1.03 patch. The speed of the game makes aiming your throws, pulls, and pushes childs play. Backswings are the only thing that will break the magic blocks regularly, regular swings get blocked 60% of the time no matter where you hit. If you think logically you realize that this is the only intelligent method of play if winning is your goal.
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Old 05-31-2002, 06:48 PM   #30
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Well, sicne you say 60% yourslef, it sounds more like laziness to me.
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Old 05-31-2002, 06:50 PM   #31
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Dark Begger, just so you don't get all disappointed and stuff... if Raven ends up not making an official patch, then it's because of what LucasArts decided.
Not only would it be quite hard to support a patch without the backing of the publisher, but it's a bit of a waste of company time to be working on things that aren't bringing in money. As far as I know, this is how almost all dev companies work. It's not a viable business decision to make patches without getting paid for that work by someone. They'd go bankrupt if they did alot of that.

And we know that Raven does listen to people (people who act mature towards them) and do try to help the players out. It wouldn't be fair to "blame" them for not doing a patch when it was LucasArts's decision.

If you want to complain that the game needs a patch, I'd suggest telling an LucasArts representative. If you want to give input on what you would like fixed and possibly how, then that's what you should tell Raven.

But be realistic and don't count on them doing a patch unless LucasArts pays them to. That's just the way it works.
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Old 05-31-2002, 06:51 PM   #32
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I just don't get it. If you don't like 1.03, don't play it. Now, I realize that you're gonna say "Hey! We said that to you about 1.02 and yet you bitched and moaned and Raven catered to you!!!"

Guess what. Apples and oranges, buddy.

When 1.02 was around that was ALL there was to play. There WERE no other options.

But if YOU don't happen to like 1.03, YOU have an option to play the best game you ever played that made life worth living and brought a ray of purest sunshine to your life in the form of 1.02. Honestly people, get a damn grip. If you don't like 1.03, you can STILL play 1.02.

And I've got news for you. Raven is NOT going to change things back to 1.02. They may reduce blocking, but if you want 1.02, Raven will not waste its time or money making another patch to make the game the way it is when you install it. In effect you already HAVE your patch. It's called 1.02, and if you want to play it, just uninstall the game and reinstall it and then don't patch. Simple as that.

You'll have your old DFA, your zero blocking, etc. There's no POINT in complaining to Raven about how you want 1.02 back BECAUSE YOU ALREADY HAVE IT.

Now, what Raven MIGHT do is things like reduce blocking for FFA/CTF modes, except that that's a server side variable now for people to implement if they so choose. They MIGHT up ammo consumption because, at least as far as I can tell, guns aren't really that much of a problem.

They MIGHT decide to support Mercs v. Jedi a bit heavier, but then again, they may leave that to the modding community if they ever release a true SDK. (not just graphics, but coding)

They most likely WILL get rid of the backstab or at least severely nerf it, as it's been stated already that the backstab was really an oversight from 1.02 that managed to sneak through in the development of 1.03.

Now, as for bashing 1.03, yes, you may think it sucks. Personally, I don't like the backstab at all, nor do I like ANY one-hit-one-kill moves.

Some of you may bitch and moan that this game doesn't play well to competition anymore. And you know what? You may be right. It may NOT play to YOUR style of competition. A lot of people whine about the fact that "1.02 was the best competetive game I EVER played and 1.03 RUINED IT," but you know what? Maybe the issue is not the GAME as much as it is your STYLE of competition.

Perhaps the game is (with the exception of the backstab) exactly what Raven envisioned. IE: they tried to make a game the way they wanted to play with 1.02, and it didn't work out. So they changed the game to how THEY felt they'd enjoy it. Maybe the fan input was only peripheral to them implementing the patch. Who knows. As far as I know, Raven has never said, "Well, the fans whined and complained so much that we just figured we'd change it to what they wanted. After all, we like to do exactly what our fans tell us to do."

Maybe competition in this game is MEANT to be slower and more thought out. Maybe it's not SUPPOSED to be the insta-frag-fest that you have in most other FPS games. Maybe Raven figured that it's more FUN to actually have to duke it out toe-to-toe for longer than, say, 5 seconds. Maybe they didn't want just the guy with the biggest gun to win. Maybe they, like a lot of us, really enjoy the dueling aspect of this game, and wanted to make it more duel friendly.

Personally, I don't care in the end. The game is what it is. If Raven releases a 1.04 patch and I hate it, well, I'll probably complain, but at least I've got 1.03.

You, in the meantime, <B>still have 1.02.</B> If you so hate and despise 1.03, if it RUINED your game, if it veritably abolished joy from your life, then you've got a very simple solution: don't play it; play 1.02 instead. This, as my grandmother used to say, is why there's chocolate and vanilla. Or in this case, 1.02 and 1.03.

Now, on the other hand, if you have useful suggestions for 1.04 that DON'T just "make it like 1.02" that's a different story. If you, for example, want to argue for a blocking system where you start at the current level, but lose blocking ability the more you move around (IE: a degrading angle of blocking the more you move), then that's a different story. If you have cogent, useful suggestions for some sort of middle ground, for chrissakes make them!! It would be a welcome change of pace to see someone actually say something useful and back it up with a well thought out and well expressed opinion. But if you think Raven is simply going to undo what is entirely in your own power to undo, and on their own dime as well, you're sorely mistaken.
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Old 05-31-2002, 07:02 PM   #33
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umm, first of all, changes in 1.03 were in no way Raven's idea....they heard the complaints and changed it. So this has nothing to do with Raven's vision.

And next, I play competitively on ladders, so if they switch to 1.03, I switch to 1.03, so reverting back to 1.02, is not really an option for me. And I know they will not bring the game back to 1.02, but they may bring some aspects of 1.02 back into 1.04...like higher damage. I'm not asking for a complete backwards upgrade....more of a mix between the two. The way I see it, Raven saw the complaints, answered them in a patch, but ended up creating new problems and OVER patching the game..there should be a happy medium in between. And what makes you think backstab wasn't in Raven's vision? just because it wasn't in yours doesn't mean it wasn't in theirs. You can't make assumptions for them

You said:
"Well, the fans whined and complained so much that we just figured we'd change it to what they wanted. After all, we like to do exactly what our fans tell us to do."

but I think EVERYONE hear knows Raven made the changes due to complaints. If Raven thought it up for themselves, they would have waited and released 1.03 as the retail game.

Anyways, I can't go back, because I am a competitive player on the ladders..you may be able to go back, but I cannot. So it's not apples and oranges for me.
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Old 05-31-2002, 07:06 PM   #34
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Angry Lazy?

Quote:
Originally posted by Agen_Terminator
Well, sicne you say 60% yourslef, it sounds more like laziness to me.
You think I'm lazy because I get upset that I dodge a charge, spin, and hit my opponent in the back with a heavy swing only to see it blocked!!!! You think this is lazy. No buddy, this is what I'm talking about in v1.03, when I say that it helps poorly skilled players.

I do not want to waste my time out manuvering my opponent and delivering what should be a deadly hit over and over again until the stupid patch actually lets one land on his unprotected back side!!!

This does not promote skill, it rewards mistakes by allowing you to get away with many of them and not taking any damage.

By the way I don't want the next patch to be just like v1.02. I like the console that appears over your head while typing. I would like the DFA back to the way it was but with reduced strength (one hit kills are gay), and I really like that you can see what is allowed on a server from looking on the list. The speed of play should be returned, throws should do less damage and if blocked your saber should fall and force the player to go get it back. Instead of super blocking how about not allowing player to complete a swing if hit while in the process swinging(i.e. if a heavy user pulls his saber back and you land a light hit he returns to a defensive posture) this will encourage people to use speed as well as strength. Oh and of course NO ONE HIT KILLS.

I think these would add to the competition.
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Old 05-31-2002, 07:13 PM   #35
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ok, the constant references to helping the crap players and screwing over the good players..is getting tiring..Let me shed some light on the subject...

What has happened is that the truly skilled (as in the top players) are obviously, at the top of a theoretical 'skill level' meter..and the crap players at the 'bottom' . In 1.02, this 'skill level' meter was very big, as in there was a big gap between the really good nad the really bad, giving lot's of space for the not so good, and the not so bad.

In 1.03, this meter was squished together, to produce a similar meter but with only a small marginal border between the good and the not so good..and betwen the bad and the not so bad.

Therefore, it seems to good players that the patch catered to the n00bs, since they are now getting more kills, and a little more difficult to beat..even though they are still...crap..? In some respects, this is agood thing, making the game a LOT more competitive...as there will be more people who are closer to the top spot..and the not so good can sometimes pose a challenge to the good....

I don't see the bad point about this 'idea' but, how they squished this meter together I dislike. I do not enjoy how they reduced saber damage..there must have been another way...oh well.
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Old 05-31-2002, 07:29 PM   #36
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Ok, now whatever help thye get you get, it's not just them who get blocking and blocking a heavy hit is unlikely, it knocks it there saber away giving you a chance to get them, you can't jsut hit them blindly and expect to get a hit in.

So you really want to stand still and get kills while the oither person attempts to hit you. Spinners are thee asiest kind to kill, i mean you can block all there hit by just looknig at them and not firing and occasionaly walking bakcwards so they don't barge in.

Well if a lgiht stance hit hit a person in heavy stance, it would make red sdtance even more nerfed to usefulness, red gambles alot with it's move so, soem are expecting to get health taken off but deal more to them.

And the noobs getting more kills is ridiculous, come on, they block mroe often but so do you and that is probably a good thing since noobs usually come spinning like a frisbee.

To me, the 1.03 patch has made dueling alot better and a noob is jsut as easy to beat in 1.03 as it was in 1.02 IMO.
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Old 05-31-2002, 07:35 PM   #37
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I wouldn't say just as easy..lol..I mastered heavy and medium in 1.02, and wow..when a beginner player comes on with his light stance trying to attack me...I just watch how he moves, position myself, then when he comes I swing at the right time with ehavy and bring him down to 25. lol then my next move kills him. THAT was easy.

in 1.03, they hack and slash tactic that they use makes yourself a little more up for attack..if you go in and try to attack up front, of course you will be hit..it requires a little more skill to kill a n00b..not a hell of a lot..but a little more. I think atleast.
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Old 05-31-2002, 07:54 PM   #38
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If you think about it, it's common sense for it to hurt if you don't get out of the way. even from a noob.
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Old 05-31-2002, 08:08 PM   #39
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Cool Guy

All of this complaining is why I wished Raven would have delayed the game, beta tested it with a significant team of testers, and got the gameplay mechanics right before they shipped it. Because changing the way the sabering and force powers work after the game has been released creates all the division in the community that we see today. And it's understandable - it's difficult to get good at something if the rules keep changing.

Which version I prefer isn't even the point anymore. The real tragedy is that the community has become polarized into so many separate little camps. It's too bad.


All the world's a stage, and all the men and women merely players...
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Old 05-31-2002, 08:15 PM   #40
Agen
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Yeh, i thought that too, it's bad to divide the game up into little camps, i used to think it was bad in jk1, divided into 2 - guns and saberers. But now there's about 6 little camps eating each other up.
I still think that lucas made them rush out jk2 in time for AotC without proper beta testing, and what they did beta test was the sp game msot.
The enxt patch should have some serious beta testing, there can be barely any room for msitakes this time round, most people can't cope with the temptation of jsut winnnig with a 1 hit kill.
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