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View Poll Results: Which would you prefer for the Republic Gunship in SW:GB?
Gunship as the 2nd Republic unique unit 29 50.88%
Gunship as a toybox unit 12 21.05%
Gunship as a cheat unit 3 5.26%
I don\'t want the Gunship at all 13 22.81%
Voters: 57. You may not vote on this poll


Thread: A Republic Gunship we can all live with!
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Old 07-10-2002, 02:57 PM   #1
Darth Windu
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A Republic Gunship we can all live with!

Ok, now most of will know that i really, really, really, really, really (you get the idea) want the Republic Gunship as a second Republic Unique Unit. I think this would make the Republic most unique as a civ, and alter gameplay and lead to the development of new tactics by people playing as or against the Republic. Even though the majotiy of people surveyed about this issue want the gunship as the second UU, there has been bitter opposition by two members of this forum, although at least one (and i hope both) seem's willing to negotiate on the issue. I have therefore decided to come up with this post to see what the community would want, as per the poll. As always, discussion/debate ion this issue (and only this issue) is welcomed.

DarthmaulUK - i would like this to be the only Gunship thread by me on the board. So i ask if you could either close or delete the other's i have created about the Gunship issue.
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Old 07-10-2002, 03:08 PM   #2
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I would prefear the gunship as a cht myself.but what your saying is right the republic gunship is unique and its home place is with its civisilation and you shouldnt have to enter a cht code to get it.the gunship ifi t comes out shouldhopefully have a awesome cannon and hold over 5 troops.But if lucasarts bring out the republic troops which they have then they must bring out the republic gunship as whats the troops without there gunship.
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Old 07-11-2002, 01:25 AM   #3
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Re: A Republic Gunship we can all live with!

Quote:
Originally posted by Darth Windu
Ok, now most of will know that i really, really, really, really, really (you get the idea) want the Republic Gunship as a second Republic Unique Unit.

In other words you are obsessed.

Quote:
Even though the majotiy of people surveyed about this issue want the gunship as the second UU

The key words are "of people surveyed", or those that bothered to enter the thread and vote. Think vocal minorities. I have already explained this many times, there is no need for me to explain it here. Plus, looking at this poll, you are the only one to have voted for the gunship as a UU. Seems the toybox idea (which I voted for) is the more popular one. And do you honestly think you will get a fair vote and run into much opposition anyway on your fourth thread about it? Only those who really want the gunship to be a UU will bother to vote at all, with a few exceptions.

Quote:
there has been bitter opposition by two members of this forum,

Me and Sith? It's the bitter opposition of the voice of reason. The two of the many against the idea who bothered to post against it. Besides, someone has to keep your imagination in check.

Quote:
although at least one (and i hope both) seem's willing to negotiate on the issue.

Sith willing to negotiate?!? ROFLMAO!! Why? He probably took the "windu=stupid" out because he didnt want you running to daddy about it like you probably did with my signature. OTOH, I am willing to negotiate on the issue and think the gunship could be a toybox unit. That is as far as I would compromise.

Quote:
I have therefore decided to come up with this post to see what the community would want, as per the poll. As always, discussion/debate ion this issue (and only this issue) is welcomed.
Congratulations, your fourth gunship-related thread, plus one started by someone else that you attempted to turn into a flame war. And your second gunship poll!


Quote:
DarthmaulUK - i would like this to be the only Gunship thread by me on the board. So i ask if you could either close or delete the other's i have created about the Gunship issue.
LoL, are you sure you don't just want your "pearls of stupidity" to be permanently buried?
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Old 07-11-2002, 01:31 AM   #4
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stormtrooper: 5 troopers + awesome cannon = overpowered, plus it overshadows the air cruiser and the transport. a unit like that would have to be limited to the toybox and a cheat code.
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Old 07-11-2002, 01:38 AM   #5
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Re: Re: A Republic Gunship we can all live with!

Quote:
Originally posted by simwiz2
Me and Sith? It's the bitter opposition of the voice of reason. The two of the many against the idea who bothered to post against it. Besides, someone has to keep your imagination in check.
Ummm, not to knock on you, but if you're going to argue that Windu has to limit the supporters of his idea to those that voted, then you ALSO have to follow the same limitations. Just because someone didn't bother to vote or post does not automatically put them as one of the "many against the idea."

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Old 07-11-2002, 05:48 AM   #6
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Re: Re: Re: A Republic Gunship we can all live with!

Quote:
Originally posted by Kryllith

Ummm, not to knock on you, but if you're going to argue that Windu has to limit the supporters of his idea to those that voted, then you ALSO have to follow the same limitations. Just because someone didn't bother to vote or post does not automatically put them as one of the "many against the idea."

Kryllith
No, I agree that just because they did not bother to vote doesn't mean that they are against the idea. They could be indifferent, or they could have not seen the thread. But most likely, if somone is for the idea and has seen the thread they will want to see the idea acted upon and will vote and/or post yes. If there was a poll and 100 people see it, and there are 20 votes yes, and 10 votes no, then it would look like the majority is for the idea when it is probably not so. Of the 70 that saw the thread and ignored it, they are likely either indifferent or against it. Those against it will think "they won't change it anyway why bother" and those indifferent simply won't care enough to vote. However, very few people who liked the idea would look at the thread for the idea and not bother voting. A more accurate poll would have to get those who are not voting to take interest and vote. If a poll started by someone from Lucasarts was called "Considering adding Gunship UU for Republic, want community opinion!" then the results would probably be different. People who hadnt bothered before would suddenly realize that the idea might actually be added, and hurriedly vote no.
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Old 07-11-2002, 04:16 PM   #7
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simwiz - if you have something constructive to post about the gunship and the options in the poll, i welcome your views. If not, please stay off this thread.
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Old 07-11-2002, 04:48 PM   #8
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Uhhh... hello people.
Sorry to disrupt your little.. fight, but I'd like to offer my opinion.
I've gone through a whole bunch of Windu's threads on this topic, and I've figured out some stuff.
This may already have been covered but i got here late...
1. It's wrong to have the "gunship" as the Republic fighter... the very name "Gunship" shows that it would be far stronger than a fighter.
2. It should be a unique unit, but maybe consider it tech 4 like the a-wing.
3. It should be able to transport a couple of units, say 5.
4. It should have dual attack- has been done before, game engine should handle it, i don't know much about programming but surely it could be done. Even if the weapon is the same, that's ok i guess.
5. It should be weaker (in HP terms) than the transport and slower than the fighter, otherwise both would be outdated.
6. Its air to air attack should be far weaker than its air to ground attack, but not sooo bad it is overlooked.
7. Its air to ground attack should be specialized vs. troopers. That's basically what it did in the movie- mowed down hordes of droids. I think.
I agree that it should be a UU- i really like it- but don't overpower it or as simwiz said, it'll screw up the entire carefully made balance.


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Old 07-11-2002, 04:58 PM   #9
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Corran - there is no fight going on here, and i hope it stays that way. Most of your points are what i have been saying all along, the gunship is nothing like a fighter, and if it is in the game, it should be a unique unit due to it being unique (no peer).
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Old 07-11-2002, 05:02 PM   #10
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OK. That's good.
Sooo...... is there anything you/we can DO about this? Contact Lucas Arts, or something? Or is it just a nice idea?


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Old 07-11-2002, 09:44 PM   #11
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Re: Re: Re: Re: A Republic Gunship we can all live with!

Quote:
Originally posted by simwiz2
If a poll started by someone from Lucasarts was called "Considering adding Gunship UU for Republic, want community opinion!" then the results would probably be different. People who hadnt bothered before would suddenly realize that the idea might actually be added, and hurriedly vote no.
Certainly, though it could hold true for the other end of the spectrum as well. People who don't really worry about voting might decide that if LucasArts is reading this and seriously considering making the change that they might vote for it. I think it might be an interesting unique unit, though I think that if implimentation were made that the original reb air transport might be modified a little (either in the amount of things it can carry or what it can carry). BTW, I haven't voted.

Course, if it were added as a cheat unit, then I'd probably just go ahead and make it make the overboard gunship that people talked about before (carries 10 units, numerous individual-targeting lasers, etc.) We're talking about cheating here after all.

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Old 07-12-2002, 02:59 PM   #12
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Come on people, i know there are more than 7 people on the forum.
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Old 07-12-2002, 03:11 PM   #13
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Yes, there are.
Windu, could you... um... answer my earlier question please? That was only a couple of posts back... i can't believe it was completely over looked... anyway, i'm wondering:
is there anything you are going to do about this? Contact Lucas Arts, or something? Or is it just a nice idea?
And... would it help if i rated this thread? 5 stars? maybe then people would come.


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Old 07-12-2002, 03:23 PM   #14
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I emailed lucasarts about another subject a while ago and didnt get a response, so im hoping that a lucasarts rep will visit this thread and see what the community wants. Also, i dont think rating it will do much, but go ahead, cant hurt.
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Old 07-12-2002, 03:33 PM   #15
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Mhmm.... problem is, we don't really represent what 'the community' wants. Sure, of the... 7 people who have voted, the majority want it as a UU (that would be you, me and somebody else) but we don't represent the majority of all GB CC players, let alone all people on this forum.
We need more publicity!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
(how do we do that?)


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Old 07-12-2002, 08:10 PM   #16
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I think the gunship is fine the way it is, if u want to complain about stuff in the game not being like the movies then you should also mention that snowspeeders don't use toecables, mechs shoot the wrong colored lasers and the rebel workers look like r2-d2 when they are supposed to be r2-d5 or something like that. Even if they did make the gunship as the 2nd UU, what would you have as the fighter for the Republic? The way Lucasarts has done it seems like the best way to me.
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Old 07-12-2002, 11:12 PM   #17
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Hmmm... 42.857% want the gunship as a UU... Windu and 2 other people popular movement?

42% and I don't even think sith has even voted yet... I think he would have at least posted something. Now that I think of it he hasn't posted anything lately... maybe his internet managed to go down again.

Many people seem quite contented with the game as it is, and think the Gunship would provide a sufficient realism quality if it was added as a toybox or cheat unit. Exactly what Sith has been saying from the start.

Also the Gunship's representation as a fighter is quite realistic. Fighters provide air and ground cover fire for their troops. With the exception of carrying the troops, Gunships were doing just that, giving cover fire for the troops. Gunship seems too strong to be reduced to a feeble fighter? Think of it as losing its gains in strength and firepower as reduced maneouverability and being a bigger target.

And the icing on the cake of making the Gunship a toybox unit is that they can make a REAL Gunship, not some crap unit that no one will ever use and is a mere shadow of the real Gunship. As a UU the Gunship will be cut to bits for balance, and have the bits jammed in as a pointless unit; as a toybox unit realisitic but overpowered ideas could be used. If anyone wants realism, the toybox/cheat version of the Gunship will be much more realistic than any UU incarnation.
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Old 07-12-2002, 11:32 PM   #18
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Of course, instead of making it a unique unit, we could simply give the current fighter the ability to carry troops (kinda a perk to their civ, like the ATAT's ability to fire at air) and then downgrade the rep's transport. Granted this is primarily just a restating of what I said before, the difference being that I always considered making the gunship a seperate unit from fighters.
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Old 07-13-2002, 05:43 AM   #19
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Hmmmm. Simwiz has a point- as a toybox unit, the Gunship could be anything we liked without disrupting game balance.
But an in-game version would be more fun- after all, Windu, two other people, and I want to use the gunship in a normal RM or DM, and in the campaigns. I think it would improve the game experience all-round.
Maybe you could have 2 versions, one in-game that wasn't so powerful, and one toybox that is everything it was in the movie.


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Old 07-13-2002, 11:40 AM   #20
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simwiz - its still a majority.

nathan - think about this. Would you have said that the snowspeeder should be a rebel unique unit if it was the rebel fighter?

A new idea: having a discussion with another member on another thread, a member came u with a good idea. Given the Republic the gunship as a second UU, but change their transport to the gunship transport that drops off an AT-TE in ep2, and make it so it can only carry 2 or 3 units, instead of the normal 5. This would make the gunship balanced by giving them a powerful ground attack with troop transport ability, but decrease their mech/heavy transport ability. This would also enhance the republics area of speciality, troopers.
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Old 07-13-2002, 11:56 AM   #21
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Hey, I remember someone saying that. But we've already discussed the 2-3 units idea here.
Wouldn't it be weird if the UU and the transport looked practically the same, though?
And the Gunship UU supporters now total 5. Yay!

Nathan- we're only discussing one thing here. You're the one who brought up those picky little things.


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Old 07-13-2002, 12:11 PM   #22
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Well they wouldn't look the same. The gunship transport would look like a futuristic CH-47 or CH-54, while the gunship looks like a futuristic Mi-24. Either way you would be able to tell the difference.
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Old 07-13-2002, 12:43 PM   #23
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Oh. That's a relief.


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Old 07-13-2002, 03:03 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally posted by Darth Windu
simwiz - its still a majority.
I am assuming (and hoping) that you say this because the poll changed at one point and then changed again (right now you are in the minority). If you said you have the majority because the UU choice had (at the time) more votes than all the other options combined, then ignore the rest of my post. If not, then:

You do realize that just because the UU option has the longest bar of the 4 options does not make it the majority. ALL of the other options, cheat unit, toybox unit, no unit, are against having it as the UU. Just because the opposition is split among 3 options and therefore the UU has the most votes out of one option does not mean the UU has the majority. If we are looking at it as UU vs not UU then I think it is safe to say that all three other options are NO's. So it is 5/11, or 45%, for the Gunship UU. Hopefully you realized this and were claiming the majority because you truly had it at the time. If you were then ignore this paragraph of my post.
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Old 07-14-2002, 12:33 PM   #25
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simwiz - i said that there was (and still is) a majority who have voted for the gunship as the second UU, not an absolute majority, there is a difference. Also, i said before, keep it related to the subject, and dont attack other members in this forum.
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Old 07-14-2002, 01:14 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally posted by Darth Windu
simwiz - i said that there was (and still is) a majority who have voted for the gunship as the second UU
So if I were to create a poll about something with one yes (5 votes) and 5 different No's (3 votes each) then the yes would be clearly popular? I don't think so. If you would now claim the Gunship has majority without considering that all the other options are all NO FOR THE UU then all your poll proves is that you can manipulate the choices to color the results in your favor. Is that why you made 4 options instead of 2? Other options... Toybox, hmm that sounds like they don't want it as a UU, cheat unit same, don't want it as a UU any more than the Death Star is an empire UU. And the not at all is just, no.

Quote:
Also, i said before, keep it related to the subject, and dont attack other members in this forum.
I don't remember attacking you in that post, so unless you are trying to dig up some long-ago post I have no idea what you are talking about. And you really shouldn't be talking about attacking other members:

Quote:
So sithmatser, you cant win an argument, and the community obviously disagrees with you on both of these issues, so you go running to daddy to get them deleted?
Which in case you didn't realise was why he attacked you in the Gunship thread, and also prompted me to get into the argument in the first place. Wait - there's more...

Quote:
...i suggest you take up reading lessons.
Quote:
Also, ignore simwiz, he likes to make up things that he will then use a 'quote' from you, besides he's opposed to the terrefic gunship idea."
Which btw is beyond lame - ignore him he is against this idea. How about "ignore Windu he is against common sense and gameplay."

I know you are trying to promote your "good guy being mercilessly picked on by the meanies"image, but you are really just being a hypocrite, as has been said already by at least one other member.
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Old 07-14-2002, 01:36 PM   #27
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*sigh* let me explain the concept of majority.
majority - when you have a greater number of votes than any other individual option.

absolute majority - when you have more than 50% of all votes.

now simwiz - STAY OFF THIS THREAD. I have alsked you twice to post only things that are relevant to the topic, and twice you have ignored me, for which there is no excuse. If you want to argue with me or anyone else, do it in a special thread. As i previously said, if you want to post something constructive about this idea, go ahead, but you dont, so stay away.
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Old 07-14-2002, 10:52 PM   #28
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Red face

OMG !!! Why are we still talking about the Republic Gunship!! Making 50 threads about the gunship isn't going to make it suddenly appear in the game.

FYI, I voted no to a new gunship. It is already in the game, so live with it. If it is moved, then what will the republic fighter-adv. fighter be. They had to use the gunship there, it the only fighter we see the Republic use in the movies.


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Old 07-14-2002, 11:12 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally posted by Darth Windu
*sigh* let me explain the concept of majority.
majority - when you have a greater number of votes than any other individual option.
absolute majority - when you have more than 50% of all votes.
*sigh* let me explain that as long as less than half have voted for the UU, then the majority of people polled think it should not be a UU. If they voted for toybox they think it should not be a UU. If they voted for cheat then they think it should not be a UU. If they voted for not at all then they think it should not be a UU.

Quote:
now simwiz - STAY OFF THIS THREAD. I have alsked you twice to post only things that are relevant to the topic, and twice you have ignored me, for which there is no excuse.
Let's get one thing clear, okay? I post where I like to post. I go into whatever threads I like to go into. I don't know who you think you are if you expect me to listen to you telling me where I can and cannot post. And what the community thinks of this idea is kind of is relevant, because its about this idea's success or failure.

Quote:
If you want to argue with me or anyone else, do it in a special thread. As i previously said, if you want to post something constructive about this idea, go ahead, but you dont, so stay away.
If I want to argue against this idea and whether the community wants it I will do so in the idea's thread. Is all opposition not constructive? Afraid that people will read my posts and see how much nonsense the idea is? Do you attempt to silence the opposition by telling them to get out?

And like I said before, if one would claim the Gunship UU to be popularly wanted based on the current results, then the poll only shows how results can be colored - split up the opposition and say "hey look the one real YES has a longer bar, cool!"

Summary of Gunship UU idea:
*No place for it in gameplay
*Will either be useless itself or make other unit(s) useless
*It is NOT a recon asset
*Republic is already a very strong civ, no need for it
*Unless overpowered, the Gunship UU will be nothing like the movie, taking away the reason to change it in the first place
*Toybox Gunship could be much more realistic
*2 troopers and AA turret food will NOT influence a battle much
*Of the ideas suggested, most were either overpriced bomber-transports or overpowered super air cruiser transports.
*Curent fighter incarnation is realistic because Gunships were used exactly like fighters in the movie.
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Old 07-15-2002, 01:26 PM   #30
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Reasons why the Gunship should be a second UU-
1. Make the game more realistic
2. Alter gameplay
3. Show the gunship the way it should be
4. The Gunship is unique
5. New strategy's for the Republic
6. New Strategy's for people fighting the Republic
7. I'm sure lucasarts can balance it
8. its not a fighter!!!!!

J-5 - actually this is the only current thread, and ITS NOT A FIGHTER.

Simwiz - just looking at three of your points.
"*Toybox Gunship could be much more realistic" - then vote for the toybox gunship.

"*Curent fighter incarnation is realistic because Gunships were used exactly like fighters in the movie." - no, they are used as assault helicopter's in the movie, even the ep2 producers said it was based on a helicopter.

"*Of the ideas suggested, most were either overpriced bomber-transports or overpowered super air cruiser transports." - its not up to us, the final stats would be done by the talented staff over at lucasarts.

Either way the thing goes, at the moment, 75% of people surveyed want the gunship to reflect it's true abilities, wether its a cheat, a UU or a toybox unit. I would be happy with any of those three.
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Old 07-15-2002, 11:58 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally posted by Darth Windu

(1)then vote for the toybox gunship.

(2)no, they are used as assault helicopter's in the movie, even the ep2 producers said it was based on a helicopter.

(3) its not up to us, the final stats would be done by the talented staff over at lucasarts.

(4)Either way the thing goes, at the moment, 75% of people surveyed want the gunship to reflect it's true abilities, wether its a cheat, a UU or a toybox unit. I would be happy with any of those three.
1 - I did.

2 - It is the closest thing to a republic fighter that I saw used in ep2, and in use (not appearance) Starfighters are much more unique than the Gunship.

3 - But many general ideas have been stated, and all have been found faulty. If those who want the idea to begin with cannot think of an idea for it then I don't think LucasArts will try.

4 - You may be willing to accept a cheat/toybox, but the cheat/toybox is not what you have been trying to get - in most of your posts you argue for the UU - and only 38.46% want it as the UU, 61.54% don't want it as the UU. Of course there is a majority for the Gunship in general - because it would be hard for people to find fault with a toybox unit that will have no negative effect on game balance at all.
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Old 07-16-2002, 11:00 AM   #32
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here r some ideas

1. get rid of the jedi starfighter and replace it with the gunship, and make up a new fighter, they did t with some of the othe civs

2. keep the starfighter, and make the gunship unique, nd make up new fighters

3. keep it how it is

4. make the jedi starfighter the republic fighter, and the gunship the UU

i personally would pick 1., but thats just because that would fit my playing style best, considering i dont much liek the jedi starfighter, since it doesnt go with my playing style, and i generally dont care baout other people playing styles, im only considering mine here, so if LA wants to please me, they can do that, but i dont know about everyone else, LA can figure that out on their own, cus it seems not man people r on this thread
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Old 07-17-2002, 11:10 AM   #33
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simwiz - yes, i do want the gunship as a UU, but if the only way to get it is in the toybox, i'll accept it. I know that there was no other Republic fighter shown, which is a pain in the butt, which is why i would want this to be changed if there is a SW:GB 2. Reason being that i would want SW:GB 2 to be created after episode 3 is released, so there would be all of the material in there, and hopefully a republic fighter to take the gunship's place.
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Old 07-17-2002, 11:16 AM   #34
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Of course there weren't any gungan fighters, rebel assault mechs, wookie vehicles of any time... in the movies. I imagine there were probably various sketched version of the gunship and jedi starfighter that didn't make the cut that could be used as the Republic fighter...

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Old 07-17-2002, 11:36 AM   #35
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kyllith - while that could be done, i relaise that the Gunship has about a 1% chance of being changed in SW:GB. That, and the hope of a new Republic Fighter, is why i said that if there is a SW:GB 2, it should be after episode 3 is released.
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Old 07-18-2002, 02:31 AM   #36
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The gunship should be the UU, and the Jedi starfighter the republic fighter. Lucas arts could put in a patch........
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Old 07-19-2002, 12:38 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally posted by eizo131
The gunship should be the UU, and the Jedi starfighter the republic fighter. Lucas arts could put in a patch........

I happen to like the starfighter, and would be infuriated (as I believe many others would also be) if they removed one of the most fun UU's in the game. How can you not love sitting above a fortress surrounded by AA turrets and mobiles and fighters, getting valuable recon while laughing that if they only could see you they have enough firepower to completely destroy 20X the unit instantly? Or using the super-fast unit to hit and run their workers in T3, and using its stealth to kill their mining outposts in T4?

And as I have already said the Starfighter is more unique than the Gunship. The Gunship was used as a fighter, the Starfighter was not.

I see no reason why the Republic should be so downgraded (yes, it would be downgraded) to lose its useful and specialised UU for a useless bomber-transport.
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Old 07-19-2002, 04:35 PM   #38
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simwiz - i find that very hard to believe. Look at the movies, and then compare the Jedi Starfighter to the X-wing, and then the Gunship to the X-wing, i think you will see my point. However, it is a moot point anyway, they should BOTH be Republic unique units, ans they are both...unique. However i think that if the gunship is made as a UU, it should get the rockets (different weapon, just same animation) while the Jedi Starfighter should get standard fighter weapons, but keep it's jedi upgrades.
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Old 07-20-2002, 01:47 PM   #39
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I think what we are suggesting is that the Gunship becomes the second Republic UU. In the same way as the A-Wing is the second Rebel UU.
Jedi Starfighter should stay the same.... it's been done the way it is for a reason, and that reason is called Game Balance. i like it. I'm irritated by the delay before firing, but I know that without that Game Balance would severely suffer.
Imagine- Jedi Starfighter with fighter weapons. A pack of them fly into an enemy base cloaked. They fire at an AA turret, then stop firing- cannot be hit by missiles or other fighters. This could be repeated and would make the Starfighter absolutely and totally overpowered.
Jedi Starfighter wouldn't work as a Republic normal fighter either. Starfighters are unique, elite, etc. Therefore, they are a UU.

I really wonder what the responses would be if the poll was simply:
1. Republic Gunship as the second Republic UU
2. Republic Gunship stays as it is

Also, a little nit-picking thing, but the people who voted "I don't want the Gunship at all" clearly want a new Republic fighter.
This poll is getting weird because the actual poll choices are getting a bit cloudy, thanks to simwiz's expert muddling of the issue.
No offense.


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Old 07-20-2002, 01:59 PM   #40
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Actually the last option was supposed to be for people who wanted it left as it is, i just didnt word it very well. Also, because i cant edit the poll, i cant change it.
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