lfnetwork.com mark read register faq members calendar
View Poll Results: Which would you prefer for the Republic Gunship in SW:GB?
Gunship as the 2nd Republic unique unit 29 50.88%
Gunship as a toybox unit 12 21.05%
Gunship as a cheat unit 3 5.26%
I don\'t want the Gunship at all 13 22.81%
Voters: 57. You may not vote on this poll


Thread: A Republic Gunship we can all live with!
Thread Tools Display Modes
Post a new thread. Add a reply to this thread. Indicate all threads in this forum as read. Subscribe to this forum. RSS feed: this forum RSS feed: all forums
Old 10-24-2002, 09:32 PM   #401
Sithmaster_821
Ensemble Fanboy
 
Sithmaster_821's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: lost
Posts: 1,869
Why do workers have an attack? So they can defend themselves from scouts/animals before the person has a true army. I was assuming that the person using the armed transports has an army and maybe an air force, but maybe im just assuming too much
Quote:
The fighters would do what they always do, perform precision strikes on ground/air forces and provide protection for other forces. Heck, I use fighters for protecting my mechs even though they are readily capable of protecting themselves. And I would still be using the transports for transporting. If I don't have them actively sending troops to a battle field, I keep them close by to pull out wounded units.
I was refering to Corran saying that the assualt transport can do everything a fighter can, but worse. Not talking about current game.
Quote:
Dems the breaks for having sucky air... luckily they typically have better AA ground units to eliminate the fighter support. As for arming transports, see my previous paragraph. The assault transport would be designed for offensive ground combat, true, but the armed would probably be fairly weak vs. everything so it really wouldn't make much of a defence if it attacked ground forces. The guns would be intended for defense, not for wading a heavy transport into combat. You can use workers to attack mechs if you really wanted to, but most people wouldn't...
Bad air civs still have to have equal strength transports just so that they all can do drops and play on space maps. And why give something attack if its not intended to use it?

Corran, did you not understand what i was saying? I was refering to the fact that Greg Street said that realism>gameplay ideas should be taken out and shot. Thus the shooting range because there is a plethora of realism>gameply ideas.

Also, (im not quoting because i kinda hit the submit reply button halfway through my post, so if i misquote you, bear with me) i still dont see why you want a downgraded fighter tht can transport only troopers as the only transport t3. T3 is when you get mechs and heavies, and i would so rather have a non attacking transportthat can carry essentail units, over one that can be easily replicated by a fighter. And how is a "downgraded fighter" available on t3 going to be balanced if it can beat fighters and fast fighters? It seems like your taking away a good chuck of our current transport and replacing it reduntantly with fighter parts. Is a bomber trasnport in the workers so that we can have yet another wasted unit? I know you guys are smart, just wish you would think sometimes. Now Windu...


"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."-Albert Einstein

Last edited by Sithmaster_821; 10-24-2002 at 09:45 PM.
Sithmaster_821 is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 10-25-2002, 03:15 AM   #402
Darth Windu
TSLRP Beta Tester
 
Darth Windu's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Coruscant
Posts: 1,973
As i have said all along, the whole idea with the Gunship would be that the Republic recieved

- Gunship UU = can carry 2 infantry-only units, good anti-ground attack but very weak anti-air
- Repoublic transport modified to only carry 3 units instead of the standard 5

And that was it.


Dark Lord of the Purists

Inter Arma Enim Silent Leges
Darth Windu is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 10-25-2002, 05:59 AM   #403
CorranSec
Lord of Hamsters
 
CorranSec's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: The land of the hamsters
Posts: 1,227
Sith, I was joking. I understood entirely what you meant. I meant that you were the one getting in the way of my jolly good gameplay idea, which is jolly good, and you are not, so we shoot you. *shoots Sith* Come on, everyone, join in!

Sith, Kryllith, EVERYONE- I severely doubt that SWGB 2 will even have tech levels, and I doubt there will be as few as there are currently. These are the times I believe such transports will become available:
Let's assume the game has eight "tech levels."
Assault Transports will be avaliable around tech 3, before heavy mechs and other heavy weapons have been developed. This way, there can be transport of everything available at the time.
Armed Transports will become available around tech 6, at which time the player will most definitely have heavy units, and can now use them to their fullest extent.
Assuming the game has a 'tier' system like War3.
The Assault Transport will be available several tiers after medium-level troopers can be built, around the time where strike mechs become available. By the time you can transport your troopers, they should be pretty good troopers, backed up by small mechs.
The Armed Transport will be kinda the same- Available a couple of tiers after Mech Destroyers, and around the time Assault Mechs and all heavy weaponry is available, but not fully upgraded.
Of course, I doubt there will be Assault Mechs, Mech Destroyers, and so on in SWGB 2, so replace them with whatever you can come up with.

I didn't say that the Assault Transport is like a downgraded fighter. It is like a downgraded fighter in one way- in the way it kills unprotected ground units. It is not like a fighter in that it excels in air-to-air. It is not like a fighter in any other ways, other than the fact it can do what fighters do (shoot at air units, scout, etc.), but then there's the fact that Bombers and, dammit, Air Cruisers can do what Fighters do, just that they're not as good at it.
Anything can do what anything does, but they're not as good at it.

I've already explained why the transports are being given attack, and they're not exactly like workers. Ie, if a worker is intercepted by a bunch of troopers on its way back to base, it is going to die. Period. Workers can kill other workers (maybe) and animals. That is all.

In the SW:GB 2 thread I have a rather large list of ships. The transports are just part of them. But luckily, there are no bomber transports.... but you've given me an idea....

Eh, no, I'm not that stupid.


Stupid Safety Warnings:
Caution! You could be killed if you collide with a large truck while driving this small car!
Warning! This knife has a sharp edge- do not press against your throat!
Danger! Matches can create fire that may burn you!
And, last but not least:
Caution! Do not point this gun at someone and pull the trigger!
CorranSec is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 10-25-2002, 05:56 PM   #404
Sithmaster_821
Ensemble Fanboy
 
Sithmaster_821's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: lost
Posts: 1,869
Quote:
It'll function much like a downpowered fighter
Quote:
I didn't say that the Assault Transport is like a downgraded fighter
I think somebody needs to recheck their post

This arguement reminds me of a similar one going on at the "civs for SWGB2" thread. What it boils down to is that if you clog the gae with too many similar units (or civs) many will be redundant and unused. Splitting a currently perfectly balanced unit into two units purely for aethestic purposes is a quite blatant step in the "clog" direction.


"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."-Albert Einstein
Sithmaster_821 is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 10-25-2002, 09:30 PM   #405
lukeiamyourdad
Using Teletraan I
 
lukeiamyourdad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Montréal, Québec, Canada
Posts: 8,274
LFN Staff Member 
I think we are jumping to conclusion too quickly. SWGB 2 might be a totally different game with a totally different type of gameplay where an armed transport, an assault transport and a fighter can live happily.


http://www.marioramos.ca/ -A friend of mine and an aspiring filmmaker.
lukeiamyourdad is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 10-25-2002, 10:21 PM   #406
CorranSec
Lord of Hamsters
 
CorranSec's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: The land of the hamsters
Posts: 1,227
Sith, I'll say it again. It functions like a downpowered fighter in this regard- it can prey on unprotected ground targets. The reason I said "like a downpowered fighter" was because it's doing something that a Fighter is good at, but it's just not as good. I must stress, though, that this is only one aspect of the Assault Transport's stats and purpose.

Aesthetic purposes? Has everything everybody has said just flown straight over your head? I'll say it again.
We're arming the transports to make the game more canon and more fun. We're arming it for gameplay. We're arming it for realism. Aesthetics plays a part, but the rest is more important.
Kapeesh? (whatever that actually means........)


Stupid Safety Warnings:
Caution! You could be killed if you collide with a large truck while driving this small car!
Warning! This knife has a sharp edge- do not press against your throat!
Danger! Matches can create fire that may burn you!
And, last but not least:
Caution! Do not point this gun at someone and pull the trigger!
CorranSec is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 10-27-2002, 04:32 PM   #407
lukeiamyourdad
Using Teletraan I
 
lukeiamyourdad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Montréal, Québec, Canada
Posts: 8,274
LFN Staff Member 
Quote:
Kapeesh? (whatever that actually means........)
Actually, it is capisce and it's italian for understood?


http://www.marioramos.ca/ -A friend of mine and an aspiring filmmaker.
lukeiamyourdad is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 10-28-2002, 02:57 AM   #408
CorranSec
Lord of Hamsters
 
CorranSec's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: The land of the hamsters
Posts: 1,227
Thanks for the clarification, luke's dad. I was actually kinda joking. Joking. Ha. Ha.


Stupid Safety Warnings:
Caution! You could be killed if you collide with a large truck while driving this small car!
Warning! This knife has a sharp edge- do not press against your throat!
Danger! Matches can create fire that may burn you!
And, last but not least:
Caution! Do not point this gun at someone and pull the trigger!
CorranSec is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 10-28-2002, 06:07 PM   #409
lukeiamyourdad
Using Teletraan I
 
lukeiamyourdad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Montréal, Québec, Canada
Posts: 8,274
LFN Staff Member 
Anyway, it will probably be just for realism, nothing more. In term of gameplay, it doesn't change a lot. They will still be really weak against Fighters and also against AA but will deal a lot of damage to AA.


http://www.marioramos.ca/ -A friend of mine and an aspiring filmmaker.
lukeiamyourdad is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 10-28-2002, 06:33 PM   #410
Sithmaster_821
Ensemble Fanboy
 
Sithmaster_821's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: lost
Posts: 1,869
Lucasarts said (this time i know where: the SWGB strat book) that they were constntly struggling to find equilibrium between air and land. They said that such balance is achieved when air serves mainly as a support force for ground units, not vice versa.

And i was talking mainly about the whole two transport thing. Splitting a unit that really doesnt need to be split (i dont know about you, but i didnt find the transports to powerful) is prime realism>gameplay no matter how the game plays. Its like splitting mounties into one thts good vs buildings and one thats good vs mechs/heavies. Too much specification of units and narrowing of their scope=negative impact on gameplay and +RAM being used. Especially if the fighter is added into the equation.
Quote:
more canon and more fun
More canon seldom equals more fun. See the Canon vs Noncanon thread.


"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."-Albert Einstein
Sithmaster_821 is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 10-28-2002, 06:45 PM   #411
lukeiamyourdad
Using Teletraan I
 
lukeiamyourdad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Montréal, Québec, Canada
Posts: 8,274
LFN Staff Member 
That's what the transport would be good for: air support!

Since fighters aren't good enough against AA mobiles, Assault transports could be. I know that you can use bombers but they have little range and they are too slow.


http://www.marioramos.ca/ -A friend of mine and an aspiring filmmaker.
lukeiamyourdad is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 10-28-2002, 07:28 PM   #412
Sithmaster_821
Ensemble Fanboy
 
Sithmaster_821's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: lost
Posts: 1,869
Fighters nor any air should be good vs AA. That defeats the whole prupose of counter units and defies the whole land/air balance i talked about.


"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."-Albert Einstein
Sithmaster_821 is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 10-29-2002, 08:19 AM   #413
Darth Windu
TSLRP Beta Tester
 
Darth Windu's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Coruscant
Posts: 1,973
Well the Republic Gunships seemed to rip through the Confederate Hail Droids pretty easily. Perhaps the Gunship should simply be made a UU, with similar stats to the bomber but having the ability to carry 2 infantry, and then replace the Republic bomber in conjunction with my other idea about UU's replacing GU's.


Dark Lord of the Purists

Inter Arma Enim Silent Leges
Darth Windu is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 10-29-2002, 03:40 PM   #414
simwiz2
 
simwiz2's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 418
Quote:
Originally posted by Darth Windu
Perhaps the Gunship should simply be made a UU, with similar stats to the bomber but having the ability to carry 2 infantry
This sounds a bit familiar. Oh yeah, it was the idea that I REPEATEDLY argued against on your third Gunship thread, and I used good gameplay reasons, while you replied with your realism lamentations.

There is no reason whatsoever to include an underpowered (or overpowered) bomber-transport hybrid. And why take out the regular bomber? There is no gameplay reason to do this.

Let me guess - this Gunship bomber is going to have better attack, more speed, more hp, some AA - in short, anything you can think of to give the republic an unfair advantage.


Just say no to Gunship UU!
...and all the rest of the stupid ideas by a certain nameless member.
simwiz2 is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 10-29-2002, 06:39 PM   #415
lukeiamyourdad
Using Teletraan I
 
lukeiamyourdad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Montréal, Québec, Canada
Posts: 8,274
LFN Staff Member 
Sith: they would be as good as bombers not better. and certainly not as good as air cruisers!


http://www.marioramos.ca/ -A friend of mine and an aspiring filmmaker.
lukeiamyourdad is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 10-29-2002, 09:37 PM   #416
Sithmaster_821
Ensemble Fanboy
 
Sithmaster_821's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: lost
Posts: 1,869
Quote:
Sith: they would be as good as bombers not better. and certainly not as good as air cruisers!
I think you mean simwiz
Quote:
Well the Republic Gunships seemed to rip through the Confederate Hail Droids pretty easily.
And ATATs killed just about everything, and 12 X-wings could take on 100 TIEs.. The problem with directly making the game from the movie is something called balance, which you have repetatively tried to undermine with your more than half dozen threads. Balance=good. Super units=bad. Even you can understnd that.


"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."-Albert Einstein
Sithmaster_821 is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 10-30-2002, 12:18 AM   #417
CorranSec
Lord of Hamsters
 
CorranSec's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: The land of the hamsters
Posts: 1,227
Sith: If no air units were good against AA, and (in the interests of your vaunted land-air balance) no land units were good against AG (Air-to-Ground), then we couldn't have battles!
Alternatively, if all but a single ground unit was bad against air, and all but a single air unit was bad against ground, you'd just get battles between those two units, and then air-to-air and ground-to-ground battles.
Now, when we're talking about air-to-ground balance; I think Starcraft and Warcraft had that. It worked, and, lo and behold, nearly every ground unit could kill air units! And vice versa!

I think that when you're talking about balance, the only way to achieve this is making air forces good against ground (as well as air) and ground forces good against air (as well as ground), rather than having uber-anti-air/ground units which absolutely dominate and require battles expanding to air+ground vs. ground+air, rather than having a balanced air vs. ground battle.


Stupid Safety Warnings:
Caution! You could be killed if you collide with a large truck while driving this small car!
Warning! This knife has a sharp edge- do not press against your throat!
Danger! Matches can create fire that may burn you!
And, last but not least:
Caution! Do not point this gun at someone and pull the trigger!
CorranSec is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 10-30-2002, 03:31 AM   #418
Darth Windu
TSLRP Beta Tester
 
Darth Windu's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Coruscant
Posts: 1,973
sith, sim - as i said, going along with the idea that UU's replace generic units, the gunship would be a good candidate for a number of reasons.

- Gunship good vs mechs, heavy's, buildings etc - same as bomber
- Has unique infantry carrying ability
- It would shut me up
- It would increase game realism

So why shouldn't the gunship replace the Republic Bomber?


Dark Lord of the Purists

Inter Arma Enim Silent Leges
Darth Windu is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 10-30-2002, 03:41 AM   #419
CorranSec
Lord of Hamsters
 
CorranSec's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: The land of the hamsters
Posts: 1,227
Windu- several reasons.

- Who even knows if there's going to be a generic bomber class in GB 2?
- What's wrong with the Assault and Armed Transports? They're actually dedicated to transporting with ground support ability. I'm not sure what the focus of your Bomber Transport would be, but either way (transporting or bombing) it'd be rather useless. And if you had the BT, would you still include the Assault and Armed Transports? Or would it just be a speciality of the Republic bomber that it could carry a couple of troopers?
- I don't really care about shutting you up. Sorry.
- It would actually detract from game realism. Now, your earlier ideas about the Republic Gunship being a kind of fighter/transport mix, they actually reflected the Gunship's abilities in the movies. But is the canon gunship: slow, not good against fighters, good against buildings which it sits around and drops bombs on, and easily destroyed by AA?
And is the bomber transport: fast, able to transport reasonable amounts of troops, good at decimating large amounts of troops, armed with rockets which can take out many buildings and mechs, and easily able to evade AA?

I don't like the idea of a bomber being able to transport troops. A fighter; maybe, but a bomber; definitely not. It's a gunship, not a bomber.


Stupid Safety Warnings:
Caution! You could be killed if you collide with a large truck while driving this small car!
Warning! This knife has a sharp edge- do not press against your throat!
Danger! Matches can create fire that may burn you!
And, last but not least:
Caution! Do not point this gun at someone and pull the trigger!
CorranSec is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 10-30-2002, 04:13 AM   #420
Darth Windu
TSLRP Beta Tester
 
Darth Windu's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Coruscant
Posts: 1,973
This idea assumes that there will be generic unit sets.

The reason i suggested using the gunship to replace the republic bomber is because the bomber seems to have the same sort of abilities that the gunship has, although im sure in SW:GB2 bombing runs and such would be better, better still if all bombers carried rockets instead of bombs.

I still dont like the generic assault transport / armed transport idea. I dont mind the transports having self-defence guns, but i think we should keep the Gunship as a UU.


Dark Lord of the Purists

Inter Arma Enim Silent Leges
Darth Windu is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 10-30-2002, 04:43 AM   #421
CorranSec
Lord of Hamsters
 
CorranSec's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: The land of the hamsters
Posts: 1,227
Windu- I'm pretty sure I've explained this several times before, but I'll say it again.
The Armed/Assault Transport idea is not an example of using 'generic' unit sets. It is an outline of what the ships will be like for each civ. The actual stats may greatly differ, and the unit sets will be unique, but the purposes will remain the same.
You don't like generic Armed/Assault transports- that's fine, because they don't exist. I don't like the idea of the game being generic. Unique unit sets is the way to go.
Windu- As I said before, the abilities of the gunship (as shown in the movies) greatly differ from those exhibited by the current Republic Bomber, in CC.
How precisely are they the same?


Stupid Safety Warnings:
Caution! You could be killed if you collide with a large truck while driving this small car!
Warning! This knife has a sharp edge- do not press against your throat!
Danger! Matches can create fire that may burn you!
And, last but not least:
Caution! Do not point this gun at someone and pull the trigger!
CorranSec is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 10-30-2002, 04:58 PM   #422
W0RF
 
W0RF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 52
I took SIX WEEKS!!!! off from this game to play Dungeon Siege and Unreal Tournament 2003, and I come back and this is STILL GOING ON?!?!?

For the love of God, close this thread.
W0RF is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 10-30-2002, 08:18 PM   #423
Sithmaster_821
Ensemble Fanboy
 
Sithmaster_821's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: lost
Posts: 1,869
If you have problems with AA, bring in your land army. If just one air unit was good vs aa, then people would be able to mass just air units and thats something LA tried to prevent. They belived in a game with varied armies, where it was necassary to have ground support for your air. Remember it isnt an air:ground ratio but an air:mech:heavyjedi ratio that matters. AA is the only counter to air units, and allowing an air unit to be able to beat it would be disasterous. Its like having a calvary unit that can easily beat pikemen. The people could just mass clvary, because they dont have to worry about the opposing player being able to stop them with a counter unit. And if you can ever make an army of one unit class that is unstoppable in a game, then that game is poorly balanced.
Quote:
- Gunship good vs mechs, heavy's, buildings etc - same as bomber
Gunship uses lasers, is good vs troopers and can fire at air. It has good aa. Fast and good at raiding. Sounds like a fighter to me.
Quote:
- Has unique infantry carrying ability
My bombers cant do that
Quote:
- It would shut me up
Hitting you repetitively with a blunt object would have the same effect, and it would be a tenfold more enjoyable.
Quote:
- It would increase game realism
It would decrease gameplay


"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."-Albert Einstein
Sithmaster_821 is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 10-30-2002, 08:30 PM   #424
Sithmaster_821
Ensemble Fanboy
 
Sithmaster_821's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: lost
Posts: 1,869
On June 9th, 2002, Windu first proposed his gunship idea. 5 months, 4 threads, 17 pages, and 553 posts later, we are in the exact same spot, except an admission 2 pages ago that SWGB has no room for a gunship UU. Doesnt that give you the impression that this idea is beyond dead?


"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."-Albert Einstein
Sithmaster_821 is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 10-31-2002, 12:40 AM   #425
Darth Windu
TSLRP Beta Tester
 
Darth Windu's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Coruscant
Posts: 1,973
The Gunship is not good anti-air, it didnt shoot down a single object.

How do you know it's good at raiding? It was used as an assault transport helicopter gunship in a large ground battle.

The Gunship also uses rockets, and is very good vs mechs, as we see in Episode 2.

It would increase gameplay and realism.

You dont have the ability to hit me with a blunt object.


Dark Lord of the Purists

Inter Arma Enim Silent Leges
Darth Windu is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 10-31-2002, 01:30 AM   #426
CorranSec
Lord of Hamsters
 
CorranSec's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: The land of the hamsters
Posts: 1,227
Sith- what if I don't want to use my land army? You shouldn't have to use your land army! That's what I'm saying! If a couple of my frigates were cruising around on the opposite side of the map to my base and were suddenly attacked by something AA, I really don't want to have to bring my land army in! And what if I'm a civ which focusses on air?
The way it really should work is that the best counter for air is air. But if you can't manage that (the player, not the game), fair air/ground battles should be possible.

Worf- I would have paid attention to what you said, except that you mentioned you'd been playing Dungeon Siege. I would rather the aforementioned 'repeated hitting with blunt object' to any further mention of that game. Thankyou.
Oh, and while you're hitting me, hit that stupid narrator fella from Dungeon Siege as well. He deserves it. And he also deserves to burn, rot, bleed, be drowned, and suffer bad bowel movements, but not actual death. That would be putting him out of his agony.

Windu-
The gunship looks like it would be good anti-air, and would be fun to use in anti-air situations. But, if you'd rather it shoot ground targets, it would also fit as the Assault Transport, which can kill unprotected troopers.
The way I saw it, it was used as a suprise weapon, which dropped troops and then provided air support as well as extra transport. Wow- just like the Assault Transport!
Rockets might be cool to look at, especially if the fighters moved when attacking, but it might damage gameplay to have a far-off attack from the bomber. The actual term "bomber" implies dropping bombs, and though that has no effect on modern-day bombers, I think it works better in gameplay. Maybe a different unit could fire rockets (Assault Transport comes to mind......)
If you're referring to the Bomber Transport, I already pointed out how it decreases realism and gameplay.
You never know about these blunt-object-using people..... they have a tendency to find whoever they're looking for, and then..... er...... utilize their blunt object. Rather scary.


Stupid Safety Warnings:
Caution! You could be killed if you collide with a large truck while driving this small car!
Warning! This knife has a sharp edge- do not press against your throat!
Danger! Matches can create fire that may burn you!
And, last but not least:
Caution! Do not point this gun at someone and pull the trigger!
CorranSec is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 10-31-2002, 06:33 AM   #427
jedi3112
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 500
I would love to see air dogfights, an X-wing (jet) isn't designed to be hovering above ground, doesn't look like it's using it's strong points (speed) either. An Assault Transport (helicopter) hovering above the ground, first of all it's designed for it, second it would use it's strenght in accuracy. Remember EE fighters weren't really good against ground, but quite good vs air, bomber were, but they only had 1 run, not very good vs air, helicopters were too but only against specific units, also not very good vs air, gunship was good vs infantry, the other was good vs armored units (tanks, SWGB would be mechs).
jedi3112 is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 10-31-2002, 06:20 PM   #428
lukeiamyourdad
Using Teletraan I
 
lukeiamyourdad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Montréal, Québec, Canada
Posts: 8,274
LFN Staff Member 
Exactly!
Fighters are supposed to be good vs air first.


http://www.marioramos.ca/ -A friend of mine and an aspiring filmmaker.
lukeiamyourdad is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 10-31-2002, 06:28 PM   #429
Sithmaster_821
Ensemble Fanboy
 
Sithmaster_821's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: lost
Posts: 1,869
Corran-The problem with being able to make an air only army is the same as the problem of being able to make a trooper only army, or a mech only army. The idea in RTS's is to diversify, and being able to make single unit/class armies is a major no no.
Quote:
The Gunship is not good anti-air, it didnt shoot down a single object.
If we didnt see x-wings didnt shoot down any air units, would they no longer be considered aa?
Quote:
How do you know it's good at raiding? It was used as an assault transport helicopter gunship in a large ground battle.
Not a single fighter was seen "raiding" in any Star Wars movie. Its abilities are implied.
Quote:
The Gunship also uses rockets, and is very good vs mechs, as we see in Episode 2.
In Ep 2 i saw it slice a crapload of troopers into tiny pieces and and blow up a combustable building. Im not seeing your point.
Quote:
You dont have the ability to hit me with a blunt object.
You'd be suprised about what i can do

Jedi, the only problem with that is this is Star Wars and SWGB, not history and EE


"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."-Albert Einstein
Sithmaster_821 is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 10-31-2002, 10:33 PM   #430
Darth Windu
TSLRP Beta Tester
 
Darth Windu's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Coruscant
Posts: 1,973
corran - the modern B-52 'Bomber' can carry weapons that have a range of 3000km. The term 'Bomber' only refers to an aircraft, normally large, that has the primary role of striking ground targets. That's all.


Dark Lord of the Purists

Inter Arma Enim Silent Leges
Darth Windu is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 11-01-2002, 06:23 AM   #431
CorranSec
Lord of Hamsters
 
CorranSec's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: The land of the hamsters
Posts: 1,227
Windu- I must stress that we are discussing the fictional universe of Star Wars, which has tactics and units that are absolutely different from any modern or historical tactics and units.

Sith- If the aim is to diversify, why are there only four types of air unit in the current GB? Why can an entirely ground army win?
Though I want diversity, I want battles between air and ground units as well. It's reasonable to think that they are each others' equals and can battle it out without having to call on reinforcements (air or ground respectively). For a compromise, though, it is also reasonable to believe that a mixed force is necessary to take a fortified enemy base.

Jedi- If we look at the movies, every air unit moved when attacking. The Gunships were always moving when they fired their weapons- not dogfighting, though, but moving forwards and firing downwards or forwards.
As such, I'd like every unit to have movement when they attack and are attacked, and if possible that movement accurate to what is known about the ship. Eg the gunship might do strafing runs like it did during the Battle of Geonosis, TIEs would be swift and agile in dogfighting.......


Stupid Safety Warnings:
Caution! You could be killed if you collide with a large truck while driving this small car!
Warning! This knife has a sharp edge- do not press against your throat!
Danger! Matches can create fire that may burn you!
And, last but not least:
Caution! Do not point this gun at someone and pull the trigger!
CorranSec is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 11-01-2002, 01:24 PM   #432
jedi3112
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 500
The gunship didn't move very fast neither was it very high above ground level, an AH-64D Longbow Apache also doesn't fly very high or fast, only 365 km/hour, 30 meters high (between the trees). An x-wing usually flies higher (deep space combat) and faster than a gunship , like an F-16 Fighting Falcon, wich flies around mach2 (2400km/hour) and high above the ground, several 1000 meters. So the x-wing is like an F-16 and the gunship is like an AH-64 (apart from the fact that 1 is an AT chopper and the other would be an AP chopper). The airspeeder would function like the A-10 in EE, an AT plane. I'd love to see dogfights too, so I think they should use the air system of EE, in wich we had dogfights, and work it out better than they did on EE, and remove the nuclear bomber. I think this would be 1 idea for an SWGB2, if worked out properly it would work very good.
jedi3112 is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 11-01-2002, 05:22 PM   #433
JediMasterEd
Forumite
 
JediMasterEd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: I dunno...somewhere between the Pacific and Atlantic Oceans...
Posts: 626
So...much...arguing.Memories...of...Red Alert 2 forums...coming back...AHHHHHHHHHH! Eh, at least there isn't any swearing...I hope.

The Gunship should probably be a UU for the Republic. Maybe we should go back to what the origional post was...about the ever so "famous" Gunship. Personally I can care less whatever it is. As long as it's good, shoots and does it's job I'm happy with it.


Peter: Another thing that grinds my gears is when I can't find the droids I'm looking for.
Stormtrooper: Yeah, I know. What gives with that?
JediMasterEd is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 11-01-2002, 07:47 PM   #434
simwiz2
 
simwiz2's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 418
Quote:
Originally posted by Sithmaster_821
Hitting you repetitively with a blunt object would have the same effect, and it would be a tenfold more enjoyable.


Just say no to Gunship UU!
...and all the rest of the stupid ideas by a certain nameless member.
simwiz2 is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 11-01-2002, 08:50 PM   #435
lukeiamyourdad
Using Teletraan I
 
lukeiamyourdad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Montréal, Québec, Canada
Posts: 8,274
LFN Staff Member 
jedi- I don't think the gunship looks like the Apache. The assault transport would look more like whatever those choppers were called that dropped US infantry during the Viet Nam War. In other words it won't shoot rockets...I don't want it to shoot rockets...


http://www.marioramos.ca/ -A friend of mine and an aspiring filmmaker.
lukeiamyourdad is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 11-01-2002, 09:15 PM   #436
simwiz2
 
simwiz2's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 418
Quote:
Originally posted by Darth Windu
The term 'Bomber' only refers to an aircraft, normally large, that has the primary role of striking ground targets.
The term 'Bomber' generally refers to an aircraft, normally large, that has the primary role of dropping explosive objects otherwise known as 'Bombs'.


Just say no to Gunship UU!
...and all the rest of the stupid ideas by a certain nameless member.
simwiz2 is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 11-01-2002, 11:19 PM   #437
CorranSec
Lord of Hamsters
 
CorranSec's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: The land of the hamsters
Posts: 1,227
I do not like this word "bomb." It is not a "bomb." It is a device which is exploding.
(sorry, I have this weird quote dictionary and I felt a need to use it. )

Can I please beg you all not to compare military units in our universe to those in the fictional Star Wars universe? They have no relevance to each other at all, and cannot be compared. The Republic is not the US..... Gunships are not helicopters.... Jedi are not the UN.... Jar Jar is not George Bush (apart from in the mind)... GB is not EE.... GB 2 will (I severely hope) not be Battlefield 1942..... and so on, and so forth.
They are not the same!


Stupid Safety Warnings:
Caution! You could be killed if you collide with a large truck while driving this small car!
Warning! This knife has a sharp edge- do not press against your throat!
Danger! Matches can create fire that may burn you!
And, last but not least:
Caution! Do not point this gun at someone and pull the trigger!
CorranSec is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 11-02-2002, 08:23 AM   #438
jedi3112
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 500
Quote:
Originally posted by lukeiamyourdad
In other words it won't shoot rockets...I don't want it to shoot rockets...
That's why I said the Apache is an AT chopper and the gunship has to be an AP chopper, tanks are destroyed with rockets, troopers are killed with guns, so the Gunship will use guns.
jedi3112 is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 11-02-2002, 05:48 PM   #439
Sithmaster_821
Ensemble Fanboy
 
Sithmaster_821's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: lost
Posts: 1,869
You all realize that the Star Wars universe is based soley on the imagination of George Lucas, not on history or what the US currently has in their armies.

Quote:
If the aim is to diversify, why are there only four types of air unit in the current GB?
There are only 4 troopers, 3 mechs, 4 heavies, and 3 jedi, but you dont seem to think that there are too few of any of those units.
Quote:
they are each others' equals
Calling air and ground equals is like calling calvary and non-mounted units equals, and that the calvary class should be as strong as all of the other non-mounted classes combined. The air is only a unit class, and is equals with the corresponding classes like troopers and mechs.


"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."-Albert Einstein
Sithmaster_821 is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 11-03-2002, 04:16 AM   #440
CorranSec
Lord of Hamsters
 
CorranSec's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: The land of the hamsters
Posts: 1,227
Sith- I don't think there's too few of those units because 4+4+3+3=.... uh.... *gets calculator, moans at lack of intelligence brought on by constant use of calculator, discovers calculator is broken...... goes out and buys new calculator, then discovers it is broken, then discovers that pushing the 'on' button helps.*
Oh. Yeah. 14.
I don't think there's too few of those units because they all add up to form ground. Ground and air should be the equal of each other, not troopers and air.
Air should NOT be a unit class. That's why I'm adding all these new units- because an air force should be just as large and diverse as a ground force, not just a single unit type like 'troopers'!


Stupid Safety Warnings:
Caution! You could be killed if you collide with a large truck while driving this small car!
Warning! This knife has a sharp edge- do not press against your throat!
Danger! Matches can create fire that may burn you!
And, last but not least:
Caution! Do not point this gun at someone and pull the trigger!
CorranSec is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Post a new thread. Add a reply to this thread. Indicate all threads in this forum as read. Subscribe to this forum. RSS feed: this forum RSS feed: all forums
Go Back   LucasForums > Network > Empire At War > Community > GalacticBattles.com > Star Wars: Galactic Battlegrounds > Galactic Discussion > A Republic Gunship we can all live with!

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:42 AM.

LFNetwork, LLC ©2002-2011 - All rights reserved.
Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.